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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...      Home login  
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 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 76
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...Page 4 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

It's not a violation of 'church and state'..btw that really doesn't exist. It's not a breech of contract

But who are they apologizing to? A few narrowminded, slightly offended people? Again, lets have the majority bend over backwards for the minority


What Majority? The majority of scope owners? then company could have made a civilian model for sale sporting goods stores nation wide with all the religious icons you can stomach.

They appoligized to the the American People for their arrogance, and poor business sence.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 77
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/20/2010 11:01:38 AM

The optic is for military use.

They put a semi-coded phrase on the side to show support in what the company believes.

Don't know what you heard in the states, but here..Afghanistan...no one cared.

The complaints came from people that would never even use the optic.


*Trijicon sells same scope to the public. check website.

*semi-coded phrase is a Bible passage reference...

*since it was refered to a Jesus-Rifle by enemies of the US.
Any rally point or indoctranation advantage for the enemy to use agaisnt us, is foolish.
Since I dont think you surveyed all Afghans, I dont think its accurate to state they didnt care.

Complaints came form US citzens, the owners of said scopes, so Trijicon and the Federal government answers to us...not the other way around.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 78
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/20/2010 11:15:20 AM
I think the issue is that this fits in with the effort to characterize the US as being at war with Islam. That is the story used to recruit by al Qaeda.

It's the flip side of "They hate us for our freedoms." People actually believed that, and that was directed at a more educated audience, with more access to information and less violence directed at them.

When fighting terrorism, you should probably make some effort not to make it easier for the terrorists. That seems like a pretty small effort.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 79
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/20/2010 8:11:51 PM
Yeah, it's the "liberal" media all right.

Nothing to do with the fact that it makes it easier to recruit young men willing to kill your service people. But it's nice that you're willing to whine about liberals and "rag heads" instead of actually giving a damn.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 80
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 9:55:40 AM

anti-Constitutional nature of it's use by soldiers of the US Armed services in clear violation of separation of church and state


The Court's Establishment Clause decisions tend to be difficult, and it's often hard to understand its reasoning. There are several rules in Establishment Clause cases, but none that applies to these facts. If it's "clear" this is a violation of "separation of church and state" (your phrase, not the First Amendment's) why don't you cite some legal authority for that?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 81
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 10:02:10 AM

it makes it easier to recruit young men willing to kill your service people


So does serving as an apologist for Islamic jihadists by running down this country's efforts to destroy them.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 82
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 10:21:11 AM

So does serving as an apologist for Islamic jihadists by running down this country's efforts to destroy them.

Huh?
What on earth do you see as apologist? I think it's a bad idea to give the other side fuel for their view that this is a religious war - you seem to want to turn it into a religious war.
Here's a secret - if it actually becomes widely viewed as a war against Islam, then you can't win.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 83
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 10:35:37 AM
[do the scopes work as they are supposed to?
do they meet all the requirements?
are they purchased at the agreed price?
to they pose a danger to the soldiers they are issued to?


if those requirements are met............then theres no problem]

I pretty much agree with this fella here on that part....

it really shouldn't be open to debate where the government buy their guns from or any type of religious references from their numbering....hell if its a practice by its owners I am sure the DoD knew....the bottom line is are these weapons effective ont he battlefield.....if not then its time to get our 'undergarments in a a wad'......
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 84
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 10:41:55 AM
The Court's Establishment Clause decisions tend to be difficult, and it's often hard to understand its reasoning. There are several rules in Establishment Clause cases, but none that applies to these facts. If it's "clear" this is a violation of "separation of church and state" (your phrase, not the First Amendment's) why don't you cite some legal authority for that?


Since the practical matter has been resolved already there is no need to re-hash old discussions. If you had read the posts in this thread, you would know that the US military agreed that it was against military rules to have those inscriptions in their equipment, and the company has agreed to stop that practice and provide the means to eliminate the inscription from the existent equipment now in the hands of the military. The military in other countries also complained about the surreptitious practice of Trijicom to inscribe the equipment with bible references.


So does serving as an apologist for Islamic jihadists by running down this country's efforts to destroy them.


That is over the asinine line. Asking that we respect our laws isn't the same as "serving as an apologist for Islamic jihadists." And asking that we respect our laws will not run down our country' efforts, exactly the opposite, for if we can only win by violating our laws, then we are spreading the seeds of our own destruction.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 85
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 12:00:22 PM
I am no expert, but, my belief is that military personnel give up lots of their constitutional rights for the pleasure of serving for us. ]

once again your dead on point Jelunc ......

once you take that oath your are 'government issued' , their property and either you do as your told or else ....(and we all know what that 'or else encompasses)
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 86
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 12:58:53 PM

aren't suicide bombers sort of coded with the words of allah by default?

I doubt it. Was the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building recently, screaming "Allahu Ahkbar" as he suicide bombed it? Most suicide bombers are those left with no real choice (as a result of conventional military inferiority) if they expect their lives to apply to what they see as justice. They are people who would rather die fighting than live under the oppression of their enemy, so for a lack of strategic bomber planes, missiles, or long range artillery, they strike back in the only effective way they can...with their lives.

It is not so much a religious thing as a consequence of the asymmetry in asymmetrical warfare.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 87
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 1:38:40 PM
[I didn't ask the Afghans, not concerned with what they say...I asked soldiers I am with and not a one cared. And fine, remove the Bible reference. Then what about all the soldiers and Marines that have Christian tattoos? Isn't that along the same lines? Should they all get sent home? We have Chaplains everywhere...most are Christian. Same thing.]

oh brotheer another one of those brain washed troopers who probably before getting indoctrinated into the miliary had a warped set of values and american arrogance about themselves. I sure as heck hope this isn't indicative of most of our personnel in the middle east trying to straighten up the mess bush got us in.
Its when you hear people like this and all the embarrassing things that our military got exposed under the shameful lack of leadership under dumbya bush and rummy and its no wonder under our new president that we are starting to regain alot standing throughout the world.......
Didn't ask the Afghans? maybe this guy has clocked to many hours....
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 88
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 2:14:01 PM
hum in 1993 Altogether, six people were killed and 1,042 others were injured

[President Clinton primarily elected to treat the 1993 World Trade
Center attack as a law-enforcement matter rather than viewing it as
the start of a "war" with radical Islamists. The Joint Terrorism Task
Force led an investigation into the bombing that resulted in the
arrest of four individuals who were found culpable. "The suspects
went on trial on September 13, 1993. The trial lasted 6 months with
the presentation of 204 witnesses and more than 1,000 pieces of
evidence. A jury convicted the four defendants on March 4, 1994, in
federal court on all 38 counts against them. On May 25, 1994, a judge
sentenced each of the four defendants to 240 years in prison and a
$250,000 fine. On February 7, 1995, authorities in Pakistan arrested
the prime fugitive wanted in connection with the bombing and
subsequently rendered him to U.S. authorities. This suspect, the
mastermind behind the bombing, was sentenced to 240 years in prison on
January 8, 1998." "The World Trade Center Bombing" Anti-Defamation
League (2005) http://www.adl.org/learn/jttf/wtcb_jttf.asp

Some individuals claim that President Clinton's cruise missile attack
on Iraqi intelligent headquarters on June 26, 1993 "...was made in
part because he believed Iraq had been involved in the first World
Trade Center bombing four months earlier." "Mylroie: Clinton's 1993
Iraq Attack Tied to First WTC Bombing" NewsMax.com (October 18, 2002)
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/mylroie.htm According to this
source, Clinton hoped that the attack would dissuade Saddam Hussein
from existing additional terrorist attacks against the United States.

The Clinton administration sought to re-task its intelligence
collection efforts towards terrorism, even seeking to partner with the
Russian intelligence service to share information. Agents were
transferred out of counterintelligence to other duties, including
counterterrorism, and funding spent on gathering intelligence on
Russia decreased dramatically. An effort was made to recruit
additional human intelligence operatives with new skills to address
the changing nature of the threat. "A New World for Spies" by Bruce
W. Nelan, Time (July 5, 1993)
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,978793,00.html

The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was enacted
by Congress and signed by President Clinton partially in response to
the 1993 World Trade Center attack. The law expanded application of
the Federal death penalty to "...acts of terrorism or the use of
weapons of mass distraction which result in death." "Violent Crime
Control and Lock Enforcement Act" Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act.
The Oklahoma City Bombing did not occur until several months after
the law became effective.

While the Clinton administration was successful in capturing the
hands-on perpetrators of the bombing, its actions had little deterrent
effect as was evidenced by the continued terrorist attacks against the
United States and its interests during his term and subsequently.
Furthermore, the failure to aggressively respond to Al Qaeda once its
role in terrorist attacks was uncovered left the United States
vulnerable to a dramatic terrorist attack such as the one on 9/11.]

of course those dumb sheep on the right like to spread lies and insinuate that President Clinton did nothing but the facts clearly says otherwise.....

now lets wind the clock up to 2001 and the supreme court justices choice for president george dumbya bush went on vaction 2/3rds % of his first 8 months in office...totally ignoring his briefings and as Mr. Clarke put it .....

["Frankly, I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism," Richard Clarke told CBS' "60 Minutes" in an interview Sunday night. "He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11. Maybe. We'll never know."

Clarke said he asked for a Cabinet-level meeting in January 2001, shortly after the president took office, to discuss the threat al Qaeda posed to the United States. "That urgent memo wasn't acted on," Clarke told CBS. Instead, he said, administration officials were focused on issues such as missile defense and Iraq.]

2,752 were killed in the 9/11 attacks and what did dumbya do..he used a unified state of america to lauch haliburton into its biggest financial opportunity ever by decieving c0ngress and soliciting support based on peoples fears and sympathy& violate FISA laws to spy on democrats instead of trying to intercept information for future attacks on this country......one of the most shameful times in american political history
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 89
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 4:00:49 PM
Buddy, you're not a dumb sheep. You're a troll.

Try to bring some slight relationship to the topic discussed. I know everything is the fault of the big, bad Lefties hiding under your bed, but it gets boring reading the same old stuff regardless of the topic under discussion.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 90
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 4:19:48 PM
and lets remind him of his buddy dumbya escorting the bin ladens out of the country and how:
[In Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for bin Laden, two French intelligence analysts, Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, claim that the Clinton and Bush administrations impeded investigations of bin Laden and his al Qaeda terrorist group in order to maintain good relations with Saudi Arabia and to maintain the stability of the oil market. "As the late John O’Neill told one of the authors [Brisard] of this book, ‘All of the answers, all of the clues allowing us to dismantle Osama bin Laden’s organization, can be found in Saudi Arabia.'" (8)

In articles and interviews, Brisard has expanded on this statement, pronouncing the official story about bin Laden’s exile from his native Saudi Arabia in 1994 and his frozen assets to be a canard. Not only did O’Neill and the F.B.I. have extensive information concerning the finances of bin Laden and al Qaeda, but the business connections between the bin Ladens, the Mahfouzes, the al Ahmoudis, the Saudi royal family, and the Bush family kept turning up in their investigations.

Mahfouz, who owns Nimir Petroleum, has conducted joint ventures with the al Amoudi family, which owns Delta Oil. Delta Oil and Unocal planned to build a pipeline through Afghanistan before the Taliban backed away. These Saudi companies are still partnered with bigger oil companies (such as Texaco and Unocal) in developing Central Asian oil projects.

Although Brisard’s interpretation of events has been disputed, the documentation of Forbidden Truth is impeccable. Clearly, the finances and fortunes of the Saudi oligarchs and the Bush family have been intertwined for many years, and oil has been the lubricant of choice, even non-existent oil.

In The Conspirators, Al Martin describes an instance of the latter. He says that the Gulf Oil Drilling Supply, of New York, Miami, and Bahrain, was Jeb Bush’s favorite artifice for oil and gas frauds:

"The fraud was rather simple. Richard Secord arranged through then Vice President George Bush Sr.’s old friend, Ghaith Pharaon, the then retired head of Saudi intelligence, for Gulf Oil and Drilling to purchase from the Saudi government oil and gas leases in the Gulf which were effectively worthless."
The leases would be embellished to appear extremely valuable and then used as loan collateral. Great American Bank and Trust of West Palm Beach subsequently failed under the weight of unpaid Iran-Contra loans.

"Also, in the case of Gulf Oil Drilling Supply, there was some moderately large international lending to that company. As you would suspect, it was principally out of the old George Bush friendly banks--Credit Lyonnais and Banque Paribas, which, combined lent $60 million dollars to Gulf Oil Drilling Supply, which, of course, was defaulted on later." (9) ]

how did that old saying go ....'Clinton lied and nobody died, bush lied and As of February 18, 2010, there have been 5342 deaths of american troops in Afghanistan& Iraq and over 100,000 Iraqi civillians since bush lied and was going to get the people who knocked those buildings down...19 or the terriorist were from Saudi Arabi, with saudi money backing them yet .....
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 91
Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 5:04:56 PM
Help me out here buddy.

I just go off on one guy for not even trying to stay on topic, then you post an equally off topic reply. Jeez, I feel like a wannabe mod here.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 92
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/21/2010 5:29:42 PM
well you know how it is when those nuts on the right still wanna blame Clinton for the mess dumbya got this country in so I decided to remind him once again how much of goof his guy was and how much the bush family has been in bed with the Sauds
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 93
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 2:29:56 AM
Certainly, the military does not extend Constitutional rights to those they capture.


<div class="quote">That depends on the circumstance. It's not an all or nothing sort of thing.


Just what circumstances, exactly, do you suppose it depends on? Unlawful alien enemy combatants the U.S. military holds overseas enjoy only one right under the U.S. Constitution, which the Court (wrongly, in my opinion) granted them in Boumediene a couple years ago. And that its the right to habeas. The Court has also held that a Combatant Status Review Tribunal satisfies that right.

During time of war, unlawful enemy combatants (i.e. presumed war criminals) do not acquire constitutional rights just by entering U.S. territory--even if they are U.S. citizens. See Ex Parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942). That case involved a group of Nazi saboteurs that landed in the U.S. by U-boat. The one the Court assumed to be a U.S. citizen--a man named Haupt--was convicted of war crimes in a military tribunal just like his fellow saboteurs. And he was electrocuted right along with them. Quirin was the law the U.S. relied on to seize Jose Padilla when he entered the U.S. and detain him in a military brig. And under Quirin, Mr. Abdulmutallab--a non-resident alien--had no constitutional rights when captured in Detroit on Christmas Day.

 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 94
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 2:35:44 AM
And my attitude and opinions are pretty much the same as most military here.


As you voluntreed for this mission, the only thing I need to know is that you have all you need to acomplish your mission, I will listen to your superiors as to what your moral should be.

this thread is about... does the scope have all it needs to serve the user well, without all the extra "Stuff". As we are the Tax-paying public...we have not only that right, but that obligation.

And Mr. Love this thread has nothing to do wth Clinton or Geroge W.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 95
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 2:47:40 AM

When I said that it doesn't sound like him, I wasn't necessarily referring to the specific position he was taking at the time.


I'm flattered to think you know my positions well enough to know what sounds like me. I'm a conservative and a very strong defender of the U.S. Constitution. I'm more than willing to debate any legal issues related to this country's war against Islamic jihadists with anyone. Fifth columnists who habitually slander their own country, and so help the merciless, barbaric 7th century Muslim savages whose reason for living is to slaughter all of us, deserve to have their dishonesty and disloyalty exposed.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 96
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 6:46:38 AM
"I didn't ask the Afghans, not concerned with what they say...I asked soldiers I am with and not a one cared."

"THe rag heads should be glad we arent dipping bullets in pigs blood and not be worried about some "jesus" optic."

"I'm more than willing to debate any legal issues related to this country's war against Islamic jihadists with anyone. Fifth columnists who habitually slander their own country, and so help the merciless, barbaric 7th century Muslim savages whose reason for living is to slaughter all of us, deserve to have their dishonesty and disloyalty exposed."

^^^^Proof positive, that we have our share of barbaric Christian jihadist/crusader savages. Oh how we love our perfect victimhood in the US. "They hate our freedoms", or as Bush lied yet again, "America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world."

The attack on 9/11 was not done in a vacuum. It was a response to our aggression in Muslim lands and our undying support for Israeli terrorism of Palestinians and it's neighbors. It takes two to tango in conflicts like these and our response to 9/11 could not have been worse in escalating the violence, recruiting yet more extremists on both sides, and in alienating the US from the Muslim world. It's almost as if Bush worked with bin Laden to orchestrate the perfect wrong response to create a forever war and to solidify the perception in Muslim lands that the US is engaged in a Crusade against Islam.
The Jesus Guns were merely a re-enforcement of that image of the US Crusades in the minds of Muslims.

Here is what bin Laden said of the situation beforehand. "The Western regimes and the government of the US bear the blame for what might happen. If their people do not wish to be harmed inside their very own countries, they should seek to elect governments that are truly representative of them and that can protect their interests."-bin Laden, May 1998. "We swore that America wouldn't live in security until we live it truly in Palestine. This showed the reality of America, which puts Israel's interest above its own people's interest. America won't get out of this crisis until it gets out of the Arabian Peninsula, and until it stops its support of Israel." -bin Laden, Oct. 2001. The FBI acknowledged the reasons for the attacks in testimony to congress "One of the primary goals of Sunni extremists is the removal of U.S. military forces from the Persian gulf area, most notably Saudi Arabia."

Our response to 9/11 was to exponentially increase US military presence in the Middle East and to engage in unrelated wars that have resulted in the death, poisoning, maiming, displacing and terrorizing of tens of millions of innocent Muslims. We installed a couple more "apostate" puppet regimes in the Muslim world as well.

Rumsfeld's 2004 Task Force acknowledged "Anti-American attitudes. Opinion surveys conducted by Zogby International, the Pew
Research Center, Gallup (CNN/USA Today), and the Department of State (INR) reveal
widespread animosity toward the United States and its policies. A year and a half after
going to war in Iraq, Arab/Muslim anger has intensified. Data from Zogby International
in July 2004, for example, show that the U.S. is viewed unfavorably by overwhelming
majorities in Egypt (98 percent), Saudi Arabia (94 percent), Morocco (88 percent), and
Jordan (78 percent). The war has increased mistrust of America in Europe, weakened
support for the war on terrorism, and undermined U.S. credibility worldwide. Media
commentary is consistent with polling data. In a State Department (INR) survey of
editorials and op-eds in 72 countries, 82.5 % of commentaries were negative, 17.5%
positive.3
Negative attitudes and the conditions that create them are the underlying sources of
threats to America’s national security and reduced ability to leverage diplomatic
opportunities. Terrorism, thin coalitions, harmful effects on business, restrictions on
travel, declines in cross border tourism and education flows, and damaging consequences
for other elements of U.S. soft power are tactical manifestations of a pervasive
atmosphere of hostility."

"If there is one overarching goal they share, it is the overthrow of what Islamists call the
“apostate” regimes: the tyrannies of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jordan, and the Gulf
states. They are the main target of the broader Islamist movement, as well as the actual
fighter groups. The United States finds itself in the strategically awkward — and
potentially dangerous — situation of being the longstanding prop and alliance partner of
these authoritarian regimes. Without the U.S. these regimes could not survive. Thus the
U.S. has strongly taken sides in a desperate struggle that is both broadly cast for all
Muslims and country-specific.23"
"U.S. policies and
actions are increasingly seen by the overwhelming majority of Muslims as a threat to the
survival of Islam itself. Three recent polls of Muslims show an overwhelming conviction
that the U.S. seeks to “dominate” and “weaken” the Muslim World.24"
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/dod/dsb_strategic_communication.pdf

It is this US xenophobic racism that keeps the people in occupied lands enraged, and more enraged with each incident of innocent citizen massacres via rifles and drones. Those in the ranks who feel they are the superior Crusaders proudly becoming the caricature of what occupied people resent most, are in fact endangering their fellows on the ground. With every re-enforcement of a perceived US war on Islam and "ragheads", resolve grows within the insurgency to teach the arrogant invaders a lesson as so many other empires learned in the past. We are no longer facing the small, rag-tag remnants of bin Laden's extremists. The vast majority of people who are shooting back at our gunboat "democracy" are citizens of occupied lands who have lost far more than we can imagine. The keyboard warriors here are indeed the real threat to US military lives, to the prospects for peace, and the economic and moral bankruptcy of the "Homeland"/Fatherland.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 97
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 7:37:00 AM
Oh...factor in these 'extremest' groups might very well take control of the one resouce that is even worth being here for...oil...then see how well our country runs.


So when all these voices have been saying since the Cater Administration, that we need to start working on energy independence, they have been consistantly been laughed at...tree hugger, oil phobic, enviromentalist.

the fact is we dont own that oil in the middle east, and war is not making oil prices cheaper, add on the trillions were paying for War, whats the cost ofthat barrel of oil now?

off topic<<<<

no one saying the scope should not be used, or the mission is wrong...just leave the "Flare" off...
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 98
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 7:49:17 AM
Sarah , this guy reminds me of something from that movie Full Metal Jacket when Sr Drill Instructor Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: says at one point when he was 'making marines' ....he says by the time I am finished with you , you will be angels of death praying for war.....this guy actually brought that bag with it's entire contents....I cant believe I once believed that bullisht but that was another lifetime ago and I am proud to say that I refused to be that far gone. I do realize and hope that our troops come home one day ,and that they had no say so in the matter , they volunteered not knowing in 2000 that a damn fool was being selected by the supreme court and the ensuing events. Hum how much money do an enlisted man makes in comparison to a private contractor, haliburton/ blackwater or whatever the hell they are calling themselves makes?

but nevertheless since that damn fool w bush got us over there knowing that it wasn't going to be no easy fix getting us outta there....
hell, I tend to like this guy's off cuff suggestion of 'up and pulling out, hell we can't stay there and hold their hands every step of the way....yes in all likelyhood their will be civil wars, and corrupt factions fighting for control and as in any species 'the strong will always survive, we can only hope that the conditions on those that are not of the majority are humane and with some consideration of the minority.....
hell how can america be spreading some fake democracy when her own house isn't in order?
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 99
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 8:14:33 AM
well congrats to you Marine now do continue to do your job and bring you and your 50,000 brothers and sister's safely back home....

really not here to debate someone over why christianity isn't accepted in a country where the dominant religion is Islam.... you would think that even though there are oviously differences of religion that you would or could grasp what all you have in common.... you would think that you could be openminded enough to understand if someone invaded your home that you wouldn't welcome the occupiers with open arms and his religion too. Lets be real, this isn't about spreading democracy at all, I mean who would prop up Hamid Karzai, only bush. Its more like the profiteering of the military industrial complex, and the oil industry pockets sure are getting fatter too....
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 100
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Jesus Rifles in use in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Posted: 2/22/2010 8:59:24 AM

The vast majority of people who are shooting back at our gunboat "democracy" are citizens of occupied lands who have lost far more than we can imagine.


What is your evidence for this claim about these "occupied lands," wherever they are? Or is it just one more product of your imagination?

It's obvious you know nothing about the origins of Islamic jihadism, which date back at least 150 years. Both the Soviet and the American military interventions were reactions to Islamist aggression, and not causes of it. But I don't expect people who lead cheers for Islamist savages to know or care much about facts.

It's clear you want Muslim jihadists left alone, to murder anyone they happen to believe has no right to live. Helpmates like you make it easier for them to accomplish their goal of installing a worldwide umma, living under the cruelest form of Islamic law. That, of course, makes it necessary either to exterminate all the rest of us, or turn us into slaves. Your apologism for this enemy of civilized people everywhere--this sadistic death cult with its stonings, beheadings, and brutal oppression of women--is as loathsome as it was to spread propaganda for the Nazis.
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