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 TravelingLight
Joined: 12/3/2009
Msg: 43
Brutal Honesty? Page 2 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

"Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true."
~Robert Brault~


 peppermint petunias
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 44
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:34:54 PM
Most people who say they want "brutal" or "complete" honesty don't want either.

My sons girlfriend was visiting with him over the holidays and asked if a checked shirt and jeans made her look to "butch".
She is a large girl with very short hair.

Well, would she had asked if SHE herself didn't think so?
I couldn't say anything. She looked like a lumber jack.

My son just burst out "yes she thinks you do because she didn't say anything".

I prefer people not to ask what they really do not want to know. I am blunt, honest and will not tip toe on egg shells.

What was I to say ? Yes.. but the color is nice? Well that would have worked but still hurt
her feelings.

Why not just say I think the bounty paper towel guy is going to really like you and smile.
Make it a joke.

I don't think that is cruel when you joke around with people you know.
A stranger, I just won't answer.
I may even tell them they don't really want to know.
 curlygrl
Joined: 11/8/2006
Msg: 45
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:41:24 PM
Why do you have to be an a s s hole to deliver the truth.

Brutal honesty - just an intimidation tactic to catch you off guard.
The brutally honest jack off tells you how he feels, in no uncertain terms
in such a manner to throw you off course - to step back and to actually
accept the punch in the face - disarming you to the point where you have
no retaliation reflex.

Brutally honest people have two common characteristics - they are
aggressive and they bully people into listening to thier views.

Have I been brutally honest - I think I have been perceived here on
occasion as being brutally honest when I first started posting on the forums -
Now - no. I dont intentionally set out to hurt people.

I try to show them how I perceive the truth but I try to be who I really am
and thats a pretty nice girl.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 46
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:44:32 PM
I don't know why people call it "brutal honesty".....could it be a definition coined by the recipient’s reaction to what has been said?


What if one was TOTALLY HONEST and the recipient’s translation of such honesty is greeted with shock, or pain would that make it brutal? And if so who should bare such responsibility?

I don't know that any truth is able to hurt anyone without the truth already been accepted by that person before they even hear it from another...

If you believe it to be true it will hurt, if you don't than it's water off a ducks back....
 TheReason_
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 47
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:47:44 PM
Some people pass off being a b!tch or an a$$hole as being "honest"

I don't like those people.




Honestly.
 Write Time
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 48
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:51:09 PM
I literally *just* wrote about this elsewhere as one of the major red flags I encounter in prospective dates.

To me, "brutally honest" people are more brute than honest, and they use this as selfish excuse to be rude and intolerant.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 49
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:51:43 PM
^^^^^Only BDJ loves them BIG
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 51
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:59:22 PM

I don't know why people call it "brutal honesty".....could it be a definition coined by the recipient’s reaction to what has been said?

Most likely, AA. Totally agreed.

What if one was TOTALLY HONEST and the recipient’s translation of such honesty is greeted with shock, or pain would that make it brutal? And if so who should bare such responsibility?

I don't know that any truth is able to hurt anyone without the truth already been accepted by that person before they even hear it from another...

Exactly. Let's for example say I asked someone if my a$$ looks fat. I should be prepared to hear "well yeah" if I'm asking someone's opinion. Honestly, if I think it does but I want someone to compliment me, that's not asking, that's fishing. Why should some poor person have to deal with my neurosis? Surely I can find a mirror and find out for myself. I'd be an idiot to get upset when someone tells me they indeed DO think my a$$ looks fat in an outfit.

If a guy tells me he thinks I am attractive and asks what I think of him, he's got to be expecting me to tell him I think he is attractive. If I tell him "I wish I could say the same", which is the truth in that particular situation - since I do wish I could, is that brutal? Only if he expects to hear something different. How's that my problem?

If you believe it to be true it will hurt, if you don't than it's water off a ducks back....

Exactly - and if you do believe it to be true, let's face it. Why are you asking others what they think? Validation, most likely...which you are inflicting on others.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 52
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 5:21:22 PM

Having been in that situation, and having consumed things that could barely be called "meals" or "food"...I have on many occasions told them that it needs work, and better luck next time. Then offer to help them. I used to be a chef/cook so it helps....Now, if they say to me "How is it and be brutally honest!"...then I consume a bit and then wipe my lips and tell them to get dressed cause we're hitting a McDonalds or something. I push my plate aside and tell them it couldn't legally be considered a meal....It goes a long way to make sure the people you're with can truly handle the honesty they're asking for.

Some can take it - some can't, but claim they want it....Hit and miss.

Now to me that's not brutal honesty because I don't think there is anything noble in sitting and eating crap and I suspect that when you suggested fixing it, as I would as well, you weren't an asshat about it. Also, with the McDonald's thing, there is a way to deliver that information that is like well, I love you but I'm not eating this that hits the humor and you don't really say it in a way that makes the other person feel badly.

My daughter will be 18 in a couple of months and she is an excellent cook. She is definitely on one level competing with me because she wants to cook as well as I do and I already think she pretty much does, just need the confidence that a few more years will bring. She's comfortable tweaking any recipe we come across and has also started just throwing stuff together to see what happens. I am kind of careful about dispensing comments about spices unless it really needs something because one of her goals I think is to cook exactly the way I do and she doesn't need to and I know she will take it poorly when she shouldn't. In that case, being honest about the fact that it could use a smidge of Oregano or Comino has no point. The food's good, I might add just a bit more, but it really doesn't need it to be a great meal so I stfu and tell her it's perfect, lol.

Shame about your friend, if she had listened to you she would have been more prepared for the harsher reality she found when she went. Too bad that her singing wasn't more important than her need to hang onto the extra weight. She could as easily have taken the opportunity, probably with financing from them, to get the situation under control so that she would be healthier, regardless of the improvement in appearance. And yannow, if the music was THAT important to her, she would have stayed for the studio work.

I was really torn when my daughter was younger because she wanted to be the next Selena, and at 8, she had pitch problems and nowhere near the pipes that Selena had at the same age. I told her that she sang well for her age and would improve as she grew older but she was not talented like Selena had been at her age. A big part of Selena's success was also a type of charisma that you are born with or not, something else that could develop with age but might not. We've talked about that conversation in the last year or so and she was somewhat crushed but she also said that I told her in a way that didn't make her feel like she shouldn't pursue the dream but that she would be realistic about it.

She has ironically developed an excellent voice, pure round quality, operatic, and has an amazing way with other language vocals. I was a musician and I was good but I didn't have the drive to pursue it professionally and I think that is about where she is with the voice. She will probably continue to study in college but it is unlikely that she will pursue a career in music. We won't ever know how she would feel if I hadn't inserted a dose of reality into her thinking at such a young age but with my music background, I felt that real honesty was the best course. I know I didn't like being lied to as a child and I have tried not to lie to my children. Whether it is about myself or things they need to know about life.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 53
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 5:29:18 PM

My experience has shown me never to trust people that label themselves as honest or brutally honest.

It is interesting the various thing that people feel they need to announce to you, particularly when it is out of the blue. Sometimes we need to pay attention to the types of things people want us to hear about them. Does an honest person need to announce that they are honest?
 HoneyBit
Joined: 11/20/2008
Msg: 54
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 5:30:10 PM
This is an old post, but I felt compelled to reply. I have found that people who say "I am easy to get along with" are just the opposite; difficult and moody. If your easy to get along with, then you do not have to advertise it. Unless your trying to convince yourself.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 56
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 5:49:05 PM

There are truths that are said to hurt. That's just a verbal attack masked as honesty. If you can say the truth and still let the person retain some dignity; giving them room to see your point, that is diplomacy.


Sure, but isn't it one's responsiblity to retain their OWN dignity....keep in mind that dignity is one of the most subjective terms.

Womaninprogress...I could swear we're twins

Junkyarddawg....You'd also have to gain another 60 pounds to even be remotely attractive to BDJ

 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 58
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 6:32:29 PM
OP - I agree with you about people who claim to be "brutally honest" and wear it like a badge. I find these people to be the same as those who claim to be "sarcastic". It gives them some right to be hurtful, cruel and nasty.

I treat people how I would like to be treated - with dignity and respect. I can always find a nice way to tell someone I'm not interested in them, without verbally abusing them or make them feel bad about themselves.

When I am contacted by a man, and find his profile states that he is "brutally honest" or "sarcastic", it immediately gets the red flags waving and I am cautious.

I just don't understand why people cannot play nice in the sandbox.
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 59
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 6:34:48 PM
I think for some, the "brutal" part is in the eye of the beholder, or the recipient of said honesty. Even something said with tact can be taken as brutal if it isn't what someone wanted/expected to hear. Admittedly there are those that will be "honest" with an intent to harm, but some people are also honest without malice behind it.

As for people that describe themselves in any way, again depends on the observer. Many people when asked to describe themselves use the "positive" terms they have heard others use about them. If some one is constantly told they are pretty, they will use that term to describe themselves even if the observer/recipient of the answer doesn't consider them pretty. Just some food for thought.

Though I do find it ironic(?) that so many seem to go hunting for any red flag just to say no to a person. I guess it's a good think that it's up to an individual to interpret how they view things about others.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 60
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Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 6:41:41 PM
I know it's semantics but is there a difference between brutal honesty, or at least the connotation that the nomer implies, and honesty that is brutal? I am thinking of a scene in The Holiday, when Kate Winslett says that the comment was brilliant, brutal, but brilliant. I think the difference is that it was total bare honesty that held a painful truth but it was not remotely delivered in a mean-spirited way. It was the information alone, not the way the person chose to impart it. That's the difference.
 Annielikeslyrics
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 61
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 7:13:50 PM
Whenever I tell someone I am about to be brutally honest...I really mean I'm trying really hard to tell them things they either wanted or asked to hear...but I really don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm going to rethink it; there were some great thoughts on this post.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 62
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 9:03:58 PM

I am lucky that i have some very good friends that told me i was crossing the the into being a bully, something i personally loathe(sp). sometimes i still have dificulty with some social situations as, what seems honest to me is totally out of order to others, i think what i am trying to say is.. talk to people with a degree of reservation, and you will not cross the line i nearly did. sorry if this did not make sense, english is my first language im just not good at writing.. now talking... that i can do with spades :)


That would likely be a good thing that your friends told you that.... Most times we do adjustments to our lives similar to a graphic equalizer.

When you tune it you most likely slide the bar all the way in one direction... then slide the bar all the way to the other direction... so you can hear what each point does, then somewhere in between those two points is where it is ending up being set.

Rince and repeat with each bar on the graph and eventually a nice balanced sound comes out of the speakers.... Life is sometimes working similar to that equalizer graph. All the different aspects within it have an overall TOTAL effect on the sound that all need adjustments from time to time. Unless you are one of those people that just set your EQ in a V graph which kinda defeats the purpose of having all those adjustments that can be made.

Just my opinions....
 LadyDancingAlone
Joined: 7/7/2006
Msg: 63
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Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 9:35:07 PM
Honesty means truthfulness. It has nothing to do with brutality, cruelty or meanness. You can be a truthful person without hurting other people.

Often we forget that these "truths" we are so eager to impart are nothing more than our own opinions. Which means they are not (necessarily) truths. Which means when we are sharing our "brutal honesty" we are being cruel solely because we believe our opinion is more important than the other person's feelings.

This is one of my pet peeves; how now-a-days people will say any jackassy thing that pops into their heads, and when they are confronted about being such a jackass they say "What? I was just being honest!" No, you were just being a jackass.

Tact, kindness, manners - these things will never be unappreciated. Try tactful honesty instead of brutal honesty-your friends will appreciate it.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 64
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 9:52:00 PM

Honesty means truthfulness. It has nothing to do with brutality, cruelty or meanness. You can be a truthful person without hurting other people.


Said from a true dis-honest person.


how now-a-days people will say any jackassy thing that pops into their heads


Ok so a person is a jack-ass if they say what pops in their head and responds as what their TRUE self may be by saying what i son their mind...... BUT... if instead of saying what pops in their head they think about it and then modify those thoughts to be more tactful, kind, manner filled then those are the HONEST people???

I am sorry those are what are called LIARS in my little world... you took your first thought anbd bent and manipulated it to cause the desired effect.... That my dear lady is not honesty... How can it be honest if it was a manufactured response that was created to eliciet a desired effect????

Most people call that manipulation but i guess we are calling it honesty these days?

Just seems maybe some people that THINK they are honest are lying to themselves first and formost by THINKING they are honest when that is the farthest from actull truth.

Truth and honesty is easy the figure out... A thought stated requiring the shortest amount of time from thought formation to the time it leaves your lips is the most honest answer and/or response.

Anything having to be thougth about, altered, changed, enhanced, filtered, or watered down is NOT in ANY definition a honest statement it is fake a fraud a manufactured ego soother to both that persons ego and to the person whom it is spoken to.

Life is pretty simple at times.... It is mostly the dis-honest people out there that are responsable for complicating and shyting things up so to speak....

Brutally honest? maybe or maybe not... but it was typed out un filtered strait out of my brain and didnt even hit a spell checker... typed directly into the box and post is about to be clicked....

So does that make mine an honest answer? Even though it is just MY opinion?

Why Yes ~DREAMS~ that means it is an HONEST THOUGHT! There i answered for myself...
 loyalgal01
Joined: 12/29/2009
Msg: 65
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 9:56:41 PM
I'm actually the same I'm brutually honest myself for me I've found that people appreaciate the fact that I am honest. In the end there'd be no reason for a person to not be able to trust you. So I say honesty is the best policy if people can't handle it than it's their problem they can't handle the truth.
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 68
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Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 10:14:12 PM
I guess it boils down to "the truth hurts" or "cruel to be kind" cases. Again a matter of personal interpretation.

This is making me think of the fable of the man with a latern looking for a "real, totally honest man" and couldn't find one.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 69
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 10:16:09 PM

People who are brutally honest are that way because they lack empathy and more often then not are narcissists.


And those that can't handle the truth have low self esteem and are more often than not requiring validation, they tend to be the type that call themselves 'sensitive', it's not sensitivity it's affirmation that only the truth hurts...if they stop buying it as truth they'll stop being so sensitive.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 70
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 10:26:47 PM

If one lives by the creed of being brutually honest they lack empathy completely.


It all goes back to what someone considers brutal.

Someone that lacks empathy would never try to help anyone....

That pretty much rules out any person or at least most people on these forums that have ever offered someone an opinion TRYING to help...as being narcissistic personality disorder.

Which by the way.... the topic of trying to diag every illness out there by trying to find them within forum posters has already been done to death.... You can't!

Text is just text and not people... there are no tone to apply, no manerisyms, everything having to do with tonal expressions is all just in the assumtion of the person reading so as such text written means and or is percieved completely different when read by different people... that is just life. Everyones mind is different and as such percieves and conceptualizes differently.

But that is not the topic.... That was stated just because i FELT like stating it.

Without any brutality at all intended.... just RAWNESS.

So while one person would say that i am a brutally honest person at times... someone else would just call me an honest person and not the brutal part....

It is your own perception of my text that adds the brutal part if you think my test falls within the scope of being brutal.

I am rude from time to time.... But i don't consider myself as being brutal.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 73
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 10:43:30 PM

I prefer to smack somebody in the face when they hurt my feelings. It feels good for my self esteem.


But That could be considered to fall in the brutal part... you would be responding with a physical response to a verbal situation....

People that choose those forms of action usually have control issues... when control of the verbal conversation fails they esculate to physical. and if the physical attempt fails most just keep right on going.

So you see.... that is not honesty at all what you were talking about... that is just simply lack of self control is all...

it doesn't have anything to do with being honest because IF your mind would be in the direction of telling everyone you met face to face some rude statement then you wouldn't be called a brutally honest person... they would call that psychotic tendencies
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 75
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/23/2010 10:45:30 PM
People who are brutally honest are that way because they lack empathy and more often then not are narcissists.

"Lack of empathy (patient does not recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others)"

That quote is one of the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder.


And it has nothing to do with the recipient of said "honesty" and how they CHOSE to interpret the information? Geez, way to place all blame on one person and avoid accepting personal responsibility for your emotions.

And as I recall from college, the DSM IV was used as a GUIDELINE for diagnosis, not a rule book. If one wanted to, every single person in their life would fit the diagnostic criteria for a mental/emotional illness. Also remember the DSM used to include homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder. I kind of refuse to believe that every human on the street is so messed up they need psychiatric help. Color me optimistic.

Some people that are labeled "brutally honest" aren't narcissistic, they simply aren't trying to be anything other than honest-no malicious intent involved. Blunt, brutal or painful as it may be-they just call it as they see it.


I prefer to smack somebody in the face when they hurt my feelings.


^^That has nothing to do with honesty, and everything to do with emotional/mental maturity. And in some states some time in jail and a legal fee or two.
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