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 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 151
Brutal Honesty? Page 8 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Brutal honesty IS calling your boss an ahole...and it's NOT necessary.

It's brutally honest about your feelings, yes. But so is saying "I want to eat sh!t and die and I hope I see your wife at the bar so I can [bleep] her again!" -- it's not about honesty, it's about venting. That's where the disconnect comes from. It would be brutally honest, and BLUNT, too.

Blunt honesty is telling things the way they are in an adult, mature way
using words aimed to give a message that is clear and concise

Not necessarily -- blunt honesty is being blunt, whether it's in a mature way or not.

not being a brutal dipshyte saying whatever I felt needed to be said
in anyway I deemed necessary

You're describing "brutal honesty" as that, which it isn't. Being like that isn't about honesty -- being like that is about being a d!ck. One can be a d!ck like that, and actually, not really be honest, just emotional (which many times causes things to veer off from a full, accurate measurement).

Some people will use the term "brutal honesty" as a COVER to let loose on derogatory comments. That does not re-define the term, though. Analogy: Being an arrogant a$$hole BUT having confidence. You're not going to label "arrogant a$$hole" as "confident", because some arrogant a$$holes have confidence or just blame their unnecessary, unkind words & actions as "being confident".

Normally, people will say "I'm going to be brutally honest..." instead of "Let me be blunt..." when they know that the truth itself is going to hurt them a lot more than just a sting -- it'll be brutal to hear the truth.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 152
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/25/2010 7:00:31 PM
Who really gives a hoot about all this fluff~

Say what you mean,
mean what you do,
do what is right for yourself first,
and other people will respect BLUNT straight forward honesty.
We all need to keep our own word to ourselves before we can
KEEP OUR WORD to others.

Only a true leader can follow and be a highly productive team member.
That requires individualism.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 153
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/25/2010 10:06:26 PM
A fellow I admire once started an ad agency. It grew to be one of the most successful agencies in the world. I always liked what he had to say about working with people:


"When we started our agency, we had in mind precisely the kind of people we wanted with us. There were two requirements: You had to be talented and you had to be nice. If you were nice but without talent, we were very sorry but you just wouldn't do. We had to 'make it,' and only great talent would help us do that. If you were a great talent but not a nice person, we had no hesitation in saying 'No.' Life is too short to sacrifice so much of it to work with a **stard. It's a wonderful feeling to know that we built an organization where nice guys didn't finish last." ~ Bill Bernbach
 EvilLolli
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 154
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/25/2010 10:08:42 PM
I still think a lot of the "brutal" is in the eye of the reciever of the statement. I am not saying there aren't some out there that use the cloak of "brutal honesty" to excuse their bad behavior. But for some recipients of the honesty, they take it as brutal when there was no intent for it.

Just because something isn't exactly what we want to hear or phrased in a way that we like, does not mean it was said to be intentionally cruel. What we need and what we want are two different things. Sometimes something needs to be said in a no BS way to get another's attention. It may not be the nicest thing to say, but the other person needs to hear it. It may be percieved as brutal, but if it was the kick in the ass that person needed to improve their lives, was it really cruel?

Also if someone asked for another's "honest opinion" they need to think how to phrase their question. Instead of "does this make me look fat?", they should maybe ask "Is this the best shape for my figure?" Is it really fair to label the person answering your question "brutal" or tactless when you didn't think thru the question you were asking? Two sides and all.

Then again I grew up in a house where you didn't ask questions you weren't prepared to hear the answer to. The answers were never cruel or intentionally mean, but they weren't sugar coated either-just straight forward, no BS answers.
 milt_n_bradley
Joined: 10/14/2009
Msg: 155
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 3:08:41 AM
"Brutal honesty" is just an excuse for somebody to give their rude, and usually unsolicited OPINION of something or someone.
It never ceases to amaze me that the "brutally honest" rarely enjoy others being "brutal" w/ them.
 ~DREAMS~
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 157
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 6:35:37 AM

"To thy own self be true."
Honesty does not begin with communication with other people; it begins with the self. A person can be perfectly honest with themselves and not say a word to another person in a given situation.

The only person we owe brutal honesty is; to ourselves, because thats the only person we can change or control.We dont hold any responsibility for the negative characteristics of others, not are we obligated to correct or call them on their flaws.
Brutal honesty has no real purpose and is often counterproductive and frustrating to the aims of the brutally honest person.Concentrating on the other positive points is a lot more productive and with the ensuing self esteem boost will come change.
Change yourself and others change in response.
Honesty is a virtue and to me, should always be done with kindness and from the others point of view.Taking into account their feelings and mindset and age/life experience.You can be totally truthful without destroying someone.Honesty, love and kindness should coat every word.If you have the persons well being in mind, attacking their spirit is contrary to that.
Yes the truth does hurt, but if honesty is expressed in a constructive way, it can be very beneficial.There is no kindness in the word brutal.It should be constructive not destructive.
No you dont have to sugar coat your words, just choose them carefully with a positive outcome in mind.
Honesty means people trust you, brutal honesty just disturbs and hurts people.It can also be misconstrued as jealousy or spite, so your words are dismissed.
Brutal honesty may be sometimes needed, in drastic cases e.g addiction. But needs to be used sparingly.You dont have to be so fixated on honesty that you forget common decency and respect towards others.
Sometimes guess what, you can be silent and say nothing all.


Nice post
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 158
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 6:57:25 AM
It's amazing to me the people that seriously think doing your job well,
being upfront and honest, telling people what they need to know and
giving honest opinions at all times is "brutal".
People need to look up the word "brutal".
Note the post "to thy own self be true."

Honesty means people trust you, brutal honesty just disturbs and hurts people.It can also be misconstrued as jealousy or spite, so your words are dismissed.
Brutal honesty may be sometimes needed, in drastic cases e.g addiction. But needs to be used sparingly.You dont have to be so fixated on honesty that you forget common decency and respect towards others.
Sometimes guess what, you can be silent and say nothing all.


Kudos to that...some of you guys need to copy this and paste it at your desks.
ahahahahahahaha!
 peppermint petunias
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 159
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 7:57:25 AM

It's amazing to me the people that seriously think doing your job well,
being upfront and honest, telling people what they need to know and
giving honest opinions at all times is "brutal".
People need to look up the word "brutal".
Note the post "to thy own self be true."


And that boo..... is why I got out.
It was a brutal life and I did not want it anymore.
Brutal may be a bit of a strong word for it by it's technical definition, but it was "cut throat".
 mickeymowss
Joined: 9/18/2009
Msg: 160
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 8:34:47 AM
Well, I have dealt with a "brutally honest" person, there's really no changing them, all you can do is calmly ask them "why do you think that?", "what makes you say that?", "that really hurts, what if someone said that about you?". you know, open ended questions, maybe they just need to let out some steem?

with hard-headed people, I try not to give a hard-headed response cause they only toughen their shell and before you know it, it's a fight. Sometimes they say something and go "what?, what did i do?", I would just look at them, dead in the eye for a few seconds, and if they build there boiling pot, "well it's true,etc etc etc". then I would just leave them alone and change the subject, just change the subject and talk about something that will make them laugh, eventually, they'll relax, and realize what they did, and if they really feel bad about it, they'd probably end up telling you "thanks" in a calm relaxed voice. I guess sometimes you just need to accept someone for who they are, but let them realize on their own, what they did wrong.

Just a note, I'm no doctor, but it's a thought.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 165
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 3:04:01 PM
Too funny, a redudant thread that again gets the hammer after x number of pages. I agree - you can be honest and yet use tact. I don't know what it is about people who figure you have to use a sledge hammer while being honest about the simplest things. I suppose if some people don't take the gentler form of honesty seriously, a harsher form may have to be used in certain circumstances but, by and large, kind honesty works better under most circumstances than being an azzhat about it - what exactly is the azzhat variety accomplishing that the kinder form isn't? Not every form of honesty needs some kind of cruel qualifying explanation. If someone asks if you like their hat, can't a simple honest "no, it's not suited to you" suffice to be honest? Where's the necessity for the brutal part of the honesty by including, "...because it makes your already huge nose look like a cross between Jimmy Durante and an elephant"??

VVVV lol...depends on if a small schnoz is considered demoralizing to an elephant!
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 166
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 3:46:16 PM
I know people well that are brutally honest, but I can't say I have ever dated one.
I think that most of the brutal honesty comes from arrogance to tell you the truth.
What makes this person feel they have to fill everyone in on their perceived faults?
Seriously it is about making the assumption, that people are ignorant and can't figure things out on their own. uggg
Unless it is going to make or break my existence, and I really am not aware of the truth STOP!
 Rarebird76
Joined: 5/10/2009
Msg: 167
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 4:26:47 PM
I would rather a man be honest rather than tell lies!
A lot of people SAY that (men and women) but really how many are truly prepared for unfiltered truth? If I asked and someone told me all my shortcoming/things I could improve I wouldn't get defensive if they were RIGHT yet people have that reaction ALL THE TIME. They can't let go of their ego or something. Also as has been said (pretty sure just skimmed thread) There is a difference between those who just want to hurt someone because they get a kick out of putting others down (makes them feel superior) and those who genuinely want to HELP somebody be a better person.

People in general just drive me crazy pretty much. I think we went off the rails a while back and lost basic reasoning/communication skills. Now it seems to be lots of "posturing" and other stupidity.
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 168
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 4:33:23 PM
Brutal honesty is one of many ways we can communicate and is sometimes required. To overuse it, is however, more about the person broadcasting the messages than the it is the receiver. Being constantly brutal to others shows that you are unhappy or scared of letting your guard down to others.

With your words you can make some happy, intrigued, sad, angry, bored or amused. Most of us kids over the age of five know that. We affect others with what we say.

The full on , all the time brutally honest are basically like a man with only a hammer in his toolbox. He will always use it in any situation, and everything will somehow look like a nail. Everything around him will be beat to heck and look awful.

When and if you discover that there are other ways of approaching things, you will get you better looking and longer lasting results. With good and uplifting communication many things can result. One of these is that respect , once given, will usual be reciprocated. Another is that making someone else happy is its own reward. You can get your point across and have someone feel good about it.

Like the man's tool box, you will now have a saw, screwdriver and a paint brush. The more tools at your disposal, the more skills you develop and the better the work you will produce.

Expressing respect and compassion shows depth, intelligence and strength. You are what you project, and actually more authentic than when you are angry and guarded.
 majyk1
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 169
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/26/2010 5:11:20 PM
Well call me what you want! lol
I am honest and call things like I see them (even about myself!) The thing I lack is tact, its not meant to be mean, but then again I dont claim to be politicaly correct either!!

I'd rather someone be tactlessly honest with me (mean to some) then tell me lies!!
I dont have time for guessing games, and anything else is just being a pvssy in my book!

Wow bet I offended ALOT of people with that one!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 172
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/27/2010 7:37:30 AM

I am all for telling "the truth" when the situation demands it. I am also for civility when doing so. As for those lamenting that people are thin skinned these days, should take note that dueling used to be an accepted way of settling these things.

Excellent points! However, the sense I've gotten about dueling as conflict resolution,is that it was for severe insult to honor ,reputation,ethics, character(or in defense of someone so insulted) not for day-to-day differences of opinion or philosophy. Remember...if you anger or emotionally hurt someone, they may just shut down and not even HEAR your message. It's entirely possible to make the situation worse instead of better.
Cindy O
 bikeman1467
Joined: 9/22/2009
Msg: 174
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History
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/27/2010 1:39:55 PM
"Brutal" by definition is a negative adjective. If someone describes themselves as "brutally honest", it indicates one of the following:

a. they don't give a rat's ass what other people think of them
b. they don't have any common sense
c. they suffer from low self esteem

Any one of these qualities is non-plussing to me. I wouldn't date a "brutally honest" person. One can share their honest opinions with other people and do so in a tactful, respectful, mature way.
 majyk1
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 175
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/27/2010 3:23:48 PM
I fit into YOUR A catagory bikeman, and proud of it!

I dont seek out people and just tell them what I think on a whim, however I dont sugar coat my responses when ASKED!
That goes back to my belief... If you dont really want to know the answer to a question....DONT ask! Or atleast dont ask me!
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 177
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/27/2010 4:56:06 PM
^^^^ -> It's a people thing -- both guys and girls do that!

People will use the term "brutally honest" because it feels brutal to hear things. It's a description of honesty, not mere response -- otherwise it'd be called "brutal response".

Person being Nice:
"Oh, no no... I'm interested... I just don't know if Sat is free... I just have a lot of things going on..." (done on multiple occasions in a row, until other person gives up)

Guy being brtually honest:
Girl: "I noticed that after our first 2 dates, you've been distant. Did you want to keep seeing each other?"
Guy: "Actually, I'm glad you brought that up... no, I don't want to."
Girl: (pause) "Okay... can I ask why?"
Guy: "You have a great smile and are intelligent, but I'm not that attracted to you physically... not enough anyway. That's the real straight-up reason."
Girl: "OMG! You pig -- looks mean everything to you, don't they?!"
Guy: "I understand it's not something you wanted to hear... but you did want to know why. And looks don't mean everything, but it's a requirement for me, and pretty much everyone, regardless of their "line in the sand" on tastes.
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 178
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Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/27/2010 5:37:56 PM

"You have a great smile and are intelligent, but I'm not that attracted to you physically... not enough anyway. That's the real straight-up reason."


This is not BRUTALLY honest in my mind.

First you prefaced your statement with a compliment,


You have a great smile and are intelligent


Then you gave a non judgemental and more accurate statement on how you feel about the situation.


but I'm not that attracted to you physically... not enough anyway.


rather than tell her she is fugly.

Now if she proceeds to say


"OMG! You pig -- looks mean everything to you, don't they?!"


then she is judging your statement on what she feels and passing judgement on you, which is not fair or right if you handled it the way you did.

What you said was a fair assessment of things and fairly straight forward, especially if done with the correct body language and tone of voice. It is the best way to handle what could be a awkward and unpleasant situation, rather than with insults and anger.

You can control what you say and do, and you can't control what she does. But at least you know you did your best.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 179
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/28/2010 3:46:58 PM
truetemp,

First you prefaced your statement with a compliment

So? The point is that brutal honesty is about the honesty -- not the whole response itself. I explicitly put it in there, to show that you can say something -positive- that IS cut-throat honest, and obviously things one doesn't want to hear that are cut-throat honest.

IF she DIDN'T have a great smile or wasn't intelligent, YES -- then it wouldn't be brutally honest. But if she HONESTLY DOES have a great smile and is very noticably intelligent -- adding it in there means "this brutal honesty isn't mean to take a swipe at you -- I'll even point out the honestly GOOD things about you too, so you know I'm not trying to bash you". Of course, putting in those good qualities may sound suspicious, as if you're just making it up to make them feel better.

Bottom line is that you can be brutally honest about something... that doesn't mean everything else you say can't be good or indifferent.
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 180
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/28/2010 5:32:13 PM
Pirateheaven said: "It is a moral vanity to feel that YOUR truth is so infallible that you are compelled to foist it upon others and to believe that your choice of BRUTAL words is what the other party NEEDS to hear. "

Great explanation!!!!!!

The truth is: that our likes and dislikes are formed from things we have been taught to like........... so therefore everyones are different.
Different strokes for different folks.
 majyk1
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 181
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/30/2010 2:46:32 AM
{"Bottom line is that you can be brutally honest about something... that doesn't mean everything else you say can't be good or indifferent."}

Exactly my point CR, Well said!
 mossbgone
Joined: 6/21/2009
Msg: 184
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/30/2010 3:37:32 PM
I agree about honesty it can be done in a mature and kind way but the lying is awful.
For one thing if someone claims they are looking for a long term relationship and cant even be truthful after a meeting, what is left deceit!
I know it can be hard to let a person down gently just dont make false promises.
 NOBLMAN
Joined: 10/18/2009
Msg: 185
Brutal Honesty?
Posted: 1/30/2010 3:42:02 PM
most people who say they are brutaly honest are usually just self centered and opinionated.
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