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 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 560
The real cost of educationPage 43 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)

Well, if they are educated, they will understand the risks involved. If they are not, they won't. Duh


This makes there health care my responsibility at planned parenthood, how?

I noticed you skipped right over our eugenics supporting Czars, since you think it doesn't apply in today's world. Hate to tell you, it is today world of overpopulation that they were discussing in many of their books.
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 561
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The real cost of education
Posted: 3/4/2011 10:44:00 PM
So Paul & Piratehaven

How many children of women who went full term have you adopted ?

Did you apply or even get on on a list for adoption ? If so did you get rejected ?

I'm sure you would make some great mature parents for some unwanted children.

Maybe you could just spend some weekend time helping out at your local foster care homes, spending time with some children in need.

Can you tell us of some of your current experiences working with your local foster care children ?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 562
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Posted: 3/4/2011 11:29:04 PM
^^^^^I think late-term abortions should be illegal throughout the U.S.--that's too close to murder for me. But other than that, I don't have strong feelings about abortion, one way or the other. What I don't like is that the Supreme Court made up a constitutional right to abortion on demand, out of thin air. And 38 years later, we're still saddled with this concocted "right." In 1973, only about 15% of the states prohibited abortion outright. All the other 40-plus provided for abortions under some circumstances. Texas, where the woman involved in Roe lived, was one of these, but its law didn't allow abortion in her case.

If the majority of Texas voters had agreed with her, the law could have been changed--but the Court chose to short-circuit the process. If the parts of Roe that are still law were repealed, all 50 states could regulate abortions as they saw fit. The law wouldn't necessarily change at all--nothing would prevent all 50 states from incorporating all the Court's rulings on abortion in their statutes. Or, if the majority in a state wanted something more restrictive, it could have that, too. But whatever we ended up with would at least be legitimate.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 563
The real cost of education
Posted: 3/5/2011 7:42:49 AM
2009 Abortion Procedures 332,278

At least 919,967 people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since the U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates.

So based on the the above numbers in three years just as many babies are aborted than all the people killed since the start of the wars.

Thinking since you agree with eugenics and population control, what types of population control are okay and which ones are not? Who dies and who lives and who decides?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93eir00rOho&feature=related
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 564
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Posted: 3/5/2011 4:56:07 PM

Gee, then don't have one, silly. Seriously, it's none of your damn business if a woman has to choose between her own life and the life of a child, or the quality of the child's life.


I should have used the term "partial birth abortions." They have been against federal law since 2003, and I agree with that law. They are everyone's business, since they are criminal.

I will respond to any issue I please here--get used to it. My personal life and who I might marry is not relevant to this thread at all, and you know it. If you make any very personal remark like that about me again, I will report you. Mind your manners, if you have any.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 565
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Posted: 3/7/2011 2:42:40 PM

The SCOTUS had no constitutional basis to legalize abortion.


That's exactly the point. It's law by fiat--in other words, a form of tyranny.

The majority in Griswold, a 1965 decision on contraception, said that "emanations" from the specific guarantees of the First Amendment, as well as from the Third, Fourth, Fifth, and Ninth Amendments, form "penumbras" which help give these guarantees "life and substance."

These guarantees create "zones" where "privacy is protected from governmental intrusion." And these "zones of privacy" also exist, according to the majority, in these penumbras. Maybe that's more clear to someone else than it is to me.

In Roe, eight years later, the lawyers for Norma McCorvey (aka "Jane Roe") argued that a Texas abortion law violated the First Amendment Establishment Clause, the Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause, and the Ninth Amendment.

The majority found that the "right of privacy" the Court had ginned up from those penumbras and emanations in Griswold didn't just include a right to distribute, sell, and use contraceptives. Mirabile dictu, they also discovered, crouching in those penumbras of privacy, a right to an abortion! And, of course, the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporated the guarantee of this privacy right and applied it against the states.

Roe is exactly the kind of "substantive due process" decision the Court first engaged in in Dred Scott v. Sandford, the 1857 decision that helped start the Civil War. Due process ordinarily involves the fairness of (surprise) a *procedure.* An example would be a state law that said people could be jailed for a month before even being arraigned--it would deprive them of a fair hearing.

But *substantive* due process involves the Court in second-guessing the legislature, by saying that the whole substance of a law--what it actually provides for--is unfair. From 1904 to 1937--the " SDP Era"--it did that to more than 200 laws. These usually involved economic issues--at the end, some of the main economic measures of the New Deal. When an outraged FDR threatened to have the Court expanded from nine justices to twelve, it gave in and stopped SDP review.

After its 33-year bender, the Court soberly declared for the next three decades, in one decision after another, that it no longer did SDP--those bad old days were long past. But only for economic matters, apparently. It slipped back into its old habit in Griswold (although it denied doing it), and it brought SDP back with a vengeance in Roe. Liberals hated SDP when it was being used to strike down New Deal programs, but they love it in Roe.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 566
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Posted: 3/7/2011 5:43:12 PM

Today, San Francisco has, in its desire to save water, mandated toilets that flush about 1-1/2 gals. of water each time they are deployed...... with the predictable results


Of all places to have that happen, to such a beautiful city. They'd better work that out pretty quick. I have some very fond memories of little restaurants, grand old hotels, Giants games, riding BART, art museums, the ferry terminal, sitting in a house on Tiburon looking at the lights across the water, sailing past that skyline at dawn, walking all around Chinatown when I was about 15 . . .
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 567
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Posted: 3/7/2011 8:27:18 PM
The only relevant question is whether anything in the Constitution prevents states from regulating abortion as they want. The Court had held earlier that the liberty guaranteed by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment includes a right to personal privacy. The Court had made clear that this right to privacy only included personal rights that could be deemed "fundamental" or "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty."

Some of these personal rights the Court had upheld related to marriage: Raising children; educating them; family relationships; procreation; contraception; and interracial marriage. In each of these decisions, the Court had explained why these rights should be considered fundamental, usually on the basis of their common law history.

But without explaining why a personal right to abortion should be fundamental, or giving any basis for that conclusion, the Roe majority simply said: "This right of privacy. . . is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy." And that arbitrariness is the problem--legal scholars have noted through the years that Roe's main holding is not supported by any legal reasoning.

Roe v. Wade is such a sorry decision that after the Court agreed to hear Casey in 1992, most of the expert Court-watchers expected it to use the opportunity to overrule Roe. But it didn't, at least not completely. It replaced Roe's arbitrary trimester scheme, but it left the "right" intact.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 568
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Posted: 3/7/2011 10:55:13 PM

Any legal medical procedure should enjoy privacy rights


That's your opinion. But as I said, whether the Constitution guarantees any personal privacy right against the states depends on whether the Court considers that right fundamental.

You're confusing privacy in the sense the Court's used it for these issues--i.e. the right to be protected against undue governmental intrusion--with privacy in the sense of the right not to have a medical procedure performed in full view of everyone passing by.

Technically, it's not impossible for states to deprive people of even fundamental rights. But the only way they can is if the law which does that is *necessary* to achieve some *compelling* government interest. That usually means that no less burdensome alternative is available. And the burden is on the state to prove all that. When the Court reviews a law using this "strict scrutiny" standard, it's almost guaranteed not to survive.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 569
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Posted: 3/8/2011 11:56:55 AM
Seems to me that was not only the opinion of the courts, but almost most sane person who aren't consumed with petty control of women.


I have no idea what "that" refers to, but I notice you choose to frame the question-- once again--in highly personal terms. It's arrogant--feigned moral superiority-- to assume that whoever disagrees with your opinion must have bad motives. And constantly bringing ad hom remarks into a discussion for no good reason gives away that you're not very well informed on the issue.


I can't imagine why the government should care if people decide to reproduce or not.


Then you can't have given it much thought. One obvious reason is that quite a few of the voters in most states--the people who determine what state laws say--oppose abortion on religious grounds. Observant Catholics are just one such group.

In any case, it makes no difference whether they *should* care about that, or whether you can imagine why they would. My comment concerned the conditions under which states can restrict abortion, or any other right the Court has said is fundamental.


No, I'm not, unless you think medical procedures are done out in view of everyone. It's all privacy and both scenarios are protected under law.


Yes, you certainly ARE confused. Of course both are protected by law. But the point that escapes you is that the ordinary kind of medical privacy you're talking about is NOT a personal right protected by 14th Amendment due process, or by anything else in the Constitution.

If a nurse neglects to pull a curtain at the right time, or a doctor carelessly says something very personal about a patient where other patients overhear it, it may give rise to a tort suit--but not a constitutional claim of privacy.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 570
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Posted: 3/8/2011 3:14:02 PM

Wow, you really are reaching far.


I'm not surprised you think that, because you don't understand the issue. Read on.


I'm not sure where I made any assertions of rights to a particular Amendment.


I never said you did. I said you were conflating two different types of privacy right.

"You're confusing privacy in the sense the Court's used it for these issues--i.e. the right to be protected against undue governmental intrusion--with privacy in the sense of the right not to have a medical procedure performed in full view of everyone passing by."

I'd already explained in a long post how the Court has said the Constitution is the source of the first type of privacy right. I even listed the personal privacy rights related to marriage that the Court has recognized as fundamental. The source of these fundamental privacy rights is the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment. And all but one of them--the right to abortion--don't even concern medical procedures.

You seem to imagine that because both the right to abortion and the other personal privacy right you brought up happen to apply to medical procedures, they must be the same. Not so. You obviously have been confusing the constitutionally-based rights to privacy with the garden-variety privacy right I contrasted them with in a couple examples, using your medical setting. These rights, which can come up in all sorts of contexts, including medicine, are covered by state tort law and don't raise any constitutional issues.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 571
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Posted: 3/8/2011 5:37:45 PM
^^^^^I wonder if you'd think this was all so cut and dried if someday President Palin told her Justice Department to stop enforcing Roe. Why not? After all, our current president has told his A.G. not to defend cases involving a main part of the Defense of Marriage Act. Mr. Holder also refuses to enforce federal voter intimidation laws against black defendants. This administration is also ignoring federal court rulings that the individual mandate in Obamacare is unconstitutional. Two can play at that game.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 572
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Posted: 3/8/2011 7:50:06 PM

Unless she can get enough congresscritters to agree, she can't change the law.


You don't say. And why is that? Mr. Obama is living proof that a U.S. president can interpret the Constitution other than the way the Court has interpreted it. That's just what he's doing with the DOMA. And you're applauding him for ignoring a federal district court's ruling on this mandate.

He's also flouting the Constitution by granting hundreds of persons waivers from Obamacare. Nothing gives a president authority to exempt only certain persons from the operation of a law. He's not some ancient king dispensing with the law for this or that favorite.


they will quickly find out what women really think about having their rights taken away.


I don't see any reason to be sure abortion laws would change much. If Roe were ever overturned, nothing would prevent any state from enacting laws that provided for abortion on demand, just as exists today. Let the majority in each state vote for what it wants.


If that's the only part of the legislation that gets tossed out in court


Can't happen that way. The Obamacare law doesn't contain any severability clause--if one part's unconstitutional, it all is. It hardly matters, because without the mandate the rest of the scheme couldn't work anyway.

The Court may never decide this law--if a Republican president were elected next year, and the Republicans picked up six seats in the Senate (which is not unlikely) the law could be repealed.

But if the Court *should* decide it, Justice Kennedy would probably be the deciding vote. It's anyone's guess how he'd see it, but upholding this law would call for a more radical interpretation of the Commerce Clause than the Court has ever made.

And how could the Court narrow its holding to just health insurance?---what basis would it have for doing that? To uphold this mandate would be to say that Congress can force people to buy certain goods and services, or prohibit them from doing that, under threat of criminal penalties.

Once that principle were established, I can't see what would prevent it from applying to food, clothing, shelter, energy, transportation--every good and service imaginable. And if there were central control of the consumption of things, obviously that control would also have to extend to the production of those things.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 573
The real cost of education
Posted: 3/12/2011 5:32:39 AM
Another benefit of collective bargaining. Death threats to the duly elected, intimidation to those opposing. Split the country.


UNIONS THREATEN BUSINESS
By Charlie Sykes
Story Created: Mar 10, 2011

Story Updated: Mar 10, 2011

That's a nice business you got there. Pity if anything were to happen to it if, say, you didn't toe the line and denounce Governor Walker like we're asking nice-like.


March 10, 2011
Mr. Tom Ellis, President
Marshall & Ilsley Corporation
770 N. Water Street
Milwaukee, WI 53202
SENT VIA FASCIMILE AND REGULAR MAIL
Dear Mr. Ellis:
As you undoubtedly know, Governor Walker recently proposed a “budget
adjustment bill” to eviscerate public employees’ right to collectively bargain in
Wisconsin. ..

As you also know, Scott Walker did not campaign on this issue when he ran for
office. If he had, we are confident that you would not be listed among his largest
contributors. As such, we are contacting you now to request your support.

The undersigned groups would like your company to publicly oppose Governor
Walker’s efforts to virtually eliminate collective bargaining for public employees in
Wisconsin. While we appreciate that you may need some time to consider this
request, we ask for your response by March 17. In the event that you do not
respond to this request by that date, we will assume that you stand with
Governor Walker and against the teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters,
and other dedicated public employees who serve our communities.


In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining,
please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the
goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will
do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to
preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table.
Wisconsin’s public employee unions serve to protect and promote equality and
fairness in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that
ideal.

In the event you would like to discuss this matter further, please contact the
executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Jim Palmer,
at 608.273.3840.

Thank you in advance for your consideration. We look forward to hearing from
you soon.

James L. Palmer, Executive Director
Wisconsin Professional Police Association
Mahlon Mitchell,President
Professional Professional Fire Fighters
Jim Conway, President
International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311
John Matthews, Execuctive Director
Madison Teachers, Inc.
Keith Patt, Executive Director
Green Bay Education Association
Bob Richardson, President
Dane County Deputy Sheriffs Association
Dan Frei, Prersident
Madison Professional Police Officers Association
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 574
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Posted: 3/12/2011 2:57:54 PM

There should also be a law against using union DUES for campaign contribution


I think private unions should have that right, just like corporations do--they're just groups of people, like any organization. If they think certain candidates are most likely to push for policies that benefit them, they're free to pay their own money to help elect those candidates.

But when it comes to public employee unions, I agree 100%. The money they donate comes entirely from tax revenues. It's spent to make it more likely that officials who will increase public employees' compensation will be elected. So any benefit goes to those employees; but the cost of it is borne by taxpayers who are mostly *not* public employees. It's a scheme for recycling taxes in a way that screws the taxpayers.
 robin-hood
Joined: 12/2/2008
Msg: 575
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Posted: 3/12/2011 6:41:05 PM
I'm with you thinkinginca,

No lobbist money whether is union, corporate, foreign countries or wealthy individuals. All meetings between elected officials should be taped and if not a security threat released to the public.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 576
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Posted: 3/12/2011 11:31:27 PM
^^^^^^And to hell with the First Amendment. Contributions Americans make to political campaigns have been protected speech for a long time now. That includes labor unions and corporations, and the wealthy--and it should. What's next--preventing newspapers from endorsing candidates because they're owned by corporations?

As for meetings, where does that stop? Say a few congressmen who are longtime friends meet for dinner at one of their homes to talk about their upcoming fishing trip. For one minute out of their two hours of conversation, a political issue is mentioned in passing. Should they have to record everything? And if they wanted to talk shop, what would stop them from doing it before they started recording?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 577
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:16:45 AM
Institutions shouldn't be afforded free speech rights for the simple fact that they are not persons


The Supreme Court doesn't agree with you. I can't think of anything it gives more constitutional protection than political speech. It's very well established that corporations and unions are legal persons. Maybe you also want the Sierra Club and AARP and NARAL to be prohibited from contributing to political campaigns because they speak for more than one individual.

I can't imagine how accumulating wealth could cripple the national economy. Do you think wealthy people don't use their wealth? It's working all the time--as land that's yielding rents, as improvements built on that land, as money loaned to all sorts of other people, at interest, to buy new machinery, expand their plants, hire more employees, develop new technologies, buy houses, and in all sorts of other ways.

I don't care if it's one person or a thousand making the decisions on how best to make a given amount of wealth yield profits. And I don't care how well anyone lives--they can only eat so much, or drive one car, or live in one house, or fly one plane at a time. Whatever they spend on themselves creates even more work--productive work--for all kinds of other people.
 GolfCoast
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 578
The real cost of education
Posted: 3/13/2011 1:29:54 PM
Hoarding? Money goes where its needed and stays where its appreciated. The fact that economic activity has contracted is a function of the theft policies of Obama and Co. They stimulated $800b plus, anyone seen any new roads or bridges from it? No. They've simply paid union wages for the past two years to an unsustainable system seen exposed in Wisconsin, NJ and a place near you soon.

Unions destroy everything they touch, corrupting everyone that benefits, and impovershing those not part of the golden circle.

I give you Detroit. Once one of America's most prosperous cities. Now after 50 years withou a Republican even on the ticket you've got the Hotel Rwanda. Deal with reality not some statist fantasy your HS teacher shared.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 579
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Posted: 3/13/2011 4:48:20 PM

Just because you finally got your legislators from the bench, don't think it will last long.


I'm assuming that's a reference to Citizens United. If so, your prediction's completely uninformed. If you'd read the decision, you'd know the Court, as it usually does, reviewed its other related decisions. They show that for a long time, the Court has recognized campaign contributions by corporations, as a general principle, as speech protected by the First Amendment. That's not even open to question.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 580
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Posted: 3/13/2011 11:48:06 PM

It's understanding what the Pursuit of Happiness really means. It's opportunity, given to all because we are free to act on what we desire, but all individuals are not equal, and will not all be able to succeed at what they want.


JD, it's good to see you back on here--hope everything's going well.

You hit it right on the head. You may know that John Locke had listed "life, liberty, and property" as inalienable rights we're all created with, and that in the Declaration, Jefferson purposely changed "property" to "the pursuit of happiness." And he meant happiness in the earlier sense of good fortune or prosperity.

It points up how much at odds leftists who push for equal *outcomes* instead of equal *opportunities* are with the ideas this country was founded on. They're in the wrong country. Equal outcomes are more what the French Revolution was about, and later what the Soviet Union was supposed to be about.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 581
The real cost of education
Posted: 3/14/2011 7:38:25 AM
Jefferson admired Epicurus and owned eight copies of De rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things) by Lucretius, a Roman disciple of Epicurus. In a letter Jefferson wrote to William Short on October 13, 1819, he declared, “I too am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us.” At the end of the letter, Jefferson made a summary of the key points of Epicurean doctrine, including:

Moral.—Happiness the aim of life.
Virtue the foundation of happiness.
Utility the test of virtue.

Properly understood, therefore, when John Locke, Samuel Johnson, and Thomas Jefferson wrote of “the pursuit of happiness,” they were invoking the Greek and Roman philosophical tradition in which happiness is bound up with the civic virtues of courage, moderation, and justice. Because they are civic virtues, not just personal attributes, they implicate the social aspect of eudaimonia. The pursuit of happiness, therefore, is not merely a matter of achieving individual pleasure. That is why Alexander Hamilton and other founders referred to “social happiness.” During this political season, as Americans are scrutinizing presidential candidates, we would do well to ponder that.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 582
The real cost of education
Posted: 3/20/2011 8:03:16 AM
Why Aren’t Arab States – Instead of the U.S., France and Britain – Taking Care of Libya?

Washington’s Blog
March 20, 2011

Gaddafi is a lying psychopath who is slaughtering his own people.

So is the imposition of a no-fly zone a good thing?

Perhaps. The Arab League called for it. And even some Libyan rebels pleaded for imposition of a no-fly zone.

But if someone is going to stop Gaddafi, it should be Arab League nations – like Saudi Arabia, which is armed to the teeth.

America should not be involved, because:

* Most Americans are strongly against U.S. intervention in Libya

* America was already involved in 2+ wars costing the U.S. many trillions of dollars (Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz says that the Iraq war alone will cost $3-5 trillion dollars.) Indeed, America’s engagement in multiple wars is bankrupting our country – despite the claims by the military Keynesians

* We are creating more terrorists than we’re stopping by bombing and invading Arab countries

* And both conservatives like Ron Paul and liberals like Dennis Kucinich have pointed out that American intervention is unlawful without a Congressional resolution of war … which no one bothered to ask for

So I don’t care whether or not someone imposes a no-fly zone or takes out Gaddafi … but the U.S. shouldn’t be the one to do it, even as part of a coalition with France and Britain.

Indeed, Gaddafi has accused the efforts by the three former colonial powers – U.S., France and Britain – as being “neo-colonial” aggression and a “crusade“.

If Arabic countries were the ones to intervene, Arabs wouldn’t be able to make those charges.



And if Arab countries are not willing to intervene themselves, that speaks volumes as to their true priorities … especially since Saudi Arabia just sent 1,000 troops to Bahrain to help the tyrants in that country brutally put down a pro-democracy protest.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 583
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Posted: 3/20/2011 4:08:51 PM
I'm not sure why Libya's internal affairs affect U.S. interests. Nobody seemed to think Ghadaffi was any great threat for a long time before this resistance began. Why did he suddenly become one then? This president is even more feckless than Jimmy Carter--he's now managed to get into this too late, and with no clear way to get out of it.

A no-fly zone won't do that much--imposing one for ten years over most of Iraq was mostly just an annoyance to Saddam. And even while the n0-fly zone was in effect over the south of Iraq, he still was able to slaughter God knows how many Shiites there.

So apparently the plan includes attacks on tanks, artillery, etc. Ghadaffi might move east to attack the insurgents. But the Libyan military would probably have some antiaircraft weapons going along to protect them. What's Mr. Obama prepared to do, I wonder, if a plane or helicopter's lost and crewmen captured?
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 584
The real cost of education
Posted: 3/23/2011 6:51:22 AM
Time to clean out congress again, both dems and repubs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aji9ZKevipU&feature=player_embedded#at=234


Hypocrite Biden Threatened Bush Impeachment Over Unconstitutional War

March 23, 2011

How things change. In 2007, then presidential hopeful Biden stated unequivocally that he would work to impeach Bush if he bombed Iran without first gaining congressional approval. Now Biden is dutifully ringing up the royalty in United Arab Emirates and cajoling them to support Obama’s unconstitutional war waged on Libya and kicked off without congressional approval.

Joe didn’t mean it in 2007, of course. He was running for president, after all. The hand-picked minions of the elite who are permitted to pretend they will run the country always tell lies. It’s in their job description. Most Americans understand elections are all about promising the moon and delivering nothing but an IOU. Still, they turn out to vote for these guys.

The elite and their brokers at the United Nations wanted this shabby little war waged against Libya. Biden is simply taking orders, as usual. It does not matter an iota what he said in 2007. And the corporate media, of course, will not hold him to that comment.
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