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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?      Home login  
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 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 51
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?Page 3 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
If you are going to quote me, might as well complete my sentences instead of taking things out of context and trying to make it seem like I was insulting the rural people.

I was stating a fact, that the republican party under Karl Rove's direction has been exploiting cultural filters, and beliefs in order to get into office people some of whom even go so far as to put on an act to look like they are good folk from the country but, are really wolves in sheep's clothing. literally and metaphorically.

George W Bush PRIME example. People vote for a truck and belt buckle, oh he is from Texas, and he is someone I would like to drink a beer with but the reality is, he was born and grew up in the north east, went to an ivy league school, and then put on a fake southern accent and buys a ranch in Texas and talks like he is completely uneducated....

How strange he was born and raised up north, school; Yale, when in office did things that hurt people severely whom make what most rural people do, the worst. Yet they go crazy for him.

I am not saying the people are stupid, quite the contrary I am saying they are being manipulated skillfully like a master fiddle player.

here is the full context of what I was saying.

someone else posted this..



They don't even know that their rage is being manipulated to achieve the goals of billionaires that want to keep on screwing the rest of the people for as long as they can.


I responded with this and the above will help clarify for you since you obviously wish to spin my words, nothing new there either.



That is exactly the point and they took that script from the republican party for certain. They have been getting rural people to vote against their own self interest for the interest of the oligarchs for a very long time. Nothing new there.



Your bringing this up is yet another attempt to play on cultural filters. It plays on this very phenomenon of which you bring up, by demonstrating it perfectly for all of us right here. Without even knowing me you call me an elitist, then demonstrate the right wings disdain for an education.

Well since you are going to use that frame of thought I guess I should introduce myself a bit further to you.

I am hardly an elitist my friend. I am one whom believes he can learn from everybody.
I have learned some of the most profound things from people of the most humble of origins. Now, if you disagree with my assessment of the topic at hand then by all means please enlighten us with your view of it. It might be more effective than attempting to play on tricks from the 1980s, calling liberals elitists, bashing people whom cherish intellect, discipline, and all that... Wow! No wonder we are having a real hard time in this country with education. We have a party that leads us to believe education, intellect, and the discipline that goes with it, is somehow a bad thing..

Either that or are you saying you want people to be educated but when they research and learn something that we should just not use it and go with the same o same o that is broken and sinking?

do tell.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 52
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/14/2010 10:16:59 AM
There's an odd tendency on the right in America to assert that nothing the right has ever done has ever been wrong, and that every bad thing that has happened has been the left's fault:

I saw a book a couple of years ago that was a re-issue of William F Buckley's defence of McCarthy for example. If it clearly comes from the right, then it's not evil. If it's clearly evil, then it must come from the left. I've seen people on these forums assert that segregation was leftist; that Roosevelt caused the Great Depression; that the left are war mongers; that the recent collapse was caused by too much regulation, not too little.
 Hawaiianluau
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 53
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/15/2010 12:29:55 AM
Post withdrawn.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 54
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/15/2010 12:51:43 PM
[I am sure that there are some groups that have latched on to the Tea Party movement but there are many Real Americans who are frustrated with this administration who see the Tea Party movement as a way to get their voices out there since Obama and the Dems seem to be deaf to the concerns of the average middle class American]

again I ask where in the hell were these "real americans" that are fustrated with the Obama Administration during 2000-2008 when the other guy ufcked things up so royally? surely if your fustrated with Obama then my goodness you sure were awfully silent and nonexistent during the wonderful, posperous g w bush years and republican's in control of the house and senate from96 to 06.....
definitely astroturf( the nice term, but we all know what they are really mad about *wink,wink*)
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 55
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 11:30:45 AM
Hitler's Nazi party was different than the one Rohm thought he was involved in. Just like Lincoln's Republican party was different than Reagan's. Hitler kept the name and the anti-semitism, but took his inspiration from Mussolini.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 56
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:02:27 PM
now lets not act like President Obama is using his army to carry out his political agenda....unlike the previous guy who actually order his troops to carryout his agenda which had nothing to do with 'spreading freedom' but more like lining the pockets of haliburton and his oil buddies.....
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 57
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:30:23 PM

now lets not act like President Obama is using his army to carry out his political agenda


Cmon Obama is a Kenyan spy and is raising a grand Nubian army and send all the white people to work on collective farms.I mean let's be "rational" here.

Re: As For those who think otherwise thats called sarcasm.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 58
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:32:40 PM
But Obama has Acorn


Gasp I forgot obviously another commie plot.

Do you think more fluoride is going into our water supply as part as the new health care bill?"shudder"
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 59
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:06:57 PM
and the growing success of the Tea Party movement

what sucess? more like mounting comedy....like the more sara palin is taking advantage of her 15 minutes of fame, Tina Fey has got to loving it.....the same can be said for the tea party and the democrat's prospect of holding serve too....
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 60
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:10:44 PM
While I have no reason to believe that this man had any connection to the tea party.What do you expect being a political consultant? you get unfounded claims from left and right blogger's every single day on a myriad of issues.As for Michelle Malkin she is an attack dog for the right so this is no big surprise.As there are attack dog's on the left.It was interesting to see the john birch society having a booth at c pac.hmmm


<div class='quote'>Mainstream Republicans, such as William F. Buckley, Jr. and Russell Kirk, grew increasingly unhappy with the society after Welch circulated a letter calling President Dwight D. Eisenhower a possible "conscious, dedicated agent of the Communist Conspiracy.


Its an interesting conservative party going on these days.Its the red scare folk's hide your children the godless commies are here.IMHO these people want to return to the 1950's the leave it to beaver days.It was a wonderful time if you were a white person.Of course if you were African American or a women you might feel differently.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 61
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:41:36 PM

The John Birch'ers are Co Sponsors not just a Booth.... CPAC


Thank you Yes I omitted that fact.I really do not understand this line of thinking at all.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 62
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/20/2010 8:40:28 AM

What success?

Mounting comedy?

Absolutely... what could be funnier than this one-liner as the teabagging "measure of success"...

Well - I'm sure all the democrats were just laughing hysterically the night a "Tea Bagging Redneck" in an old pickup truck took TED KENNEDY'S US Senate seat!

Couldn't beat the man... but hey, they managed to out-poll his ghost...

Next they'll be crowing about the gorgeous babe they 'seduced'... after she died...
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 63
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/20/2010 11:32:41 AM

Speaking of "Ghosts" , and dead gorgeous babe's...

A day late and a dollar short...

The reference wasn't accidental... You didn't see Ted publicly crowing about 'nailing' a dead body... unlike the 'proud teabaggers'...

But keep trying... one day you'll catch-up... though I'll probably be too dead to notice...
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 64
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/20/2010 1:44:45 PM
Laura ran over an ex-boyfriend. Not an urban legend. But it's almost as stupid to bring up as Chappaquidick. In fact, the only reason to mention it is when some dough head mentions the latter incident.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 65
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/23/2010 12:34:47 PM
I'm really having a hard time with anything really distinguishing anything different about this so-called movement from the GOP as it is. A label for groups that may share one belief in common out of scores of beliefs in total.... less taxes and small government. But you have your Conservatives whose beliefs are aligned more closely with Libertarians, those that want low taxes but also want incredible military spending and foreign policy based on interventionism/interloping, and then your Palinistas that want low taxes, military spending, and to legislate morality and political correctness. Tea Party Movement is just a new name for Republicans and those Republicans that don't realize they're Libertarians.
 MrLove45
Joined: 1/31/2010
Msg: 66
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/24/2010 4:46:17 PM
sounds to me like this is another case of fabrication by someone who's aligned themselves lock,stock and barrel to the right...it wouldn't matter what President Obama and the dems do for this poor unfortunate soul ....hell they could eradicate world hunger, national and personal debt, establish world peace but the likes of fission fussion, killene and the few others would still find fault or just make stuff up just to oppose and support their obstructionist republican hero's on the right fighting the president and the american way of life every step of the way....
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 67
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 2/25/2010 3:22:08 AM

sounds to me like this is another case of fabrication by someone who's aligned themselves lock,stock and barrel to the right...it wouldn't matter what President Obama and the dems do for this poor unfortunate soul ....


I agree! By the figures that he is showing it looks like his gross monthly pay is about $6,600

If I was that young and my government was paying me that kind of money to wear a uniform, I would at least shut up.

Many of us have labored for 40 years and are lucky to have earned a bit more than $4,000 gross pay per month.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 68
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 2:55:52 PM
This was originally posted Jan of 2010. Thought I'd dredge this up now that a few states have elected Tea Party Governors since. Whaddya' think, states like Ohio, Wisconsin,Michigan, Florida, New Jersey?? Michigan is working on a recall ballot for their Tea Party Gov. and here in Ohio Toxic worker legislation enacted by Gov. Kasich is up for a vote this Nov. .The petition to make this possible got 1.5 million signatures just to get this legislation put to the ballot.

So, now that some states have had a taste of the Tea Parties brand of politics what do you think? I think they need to go and they're the worst thing to happen to working people in Ohio in years.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 69
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 4:39:03 PM

I think they need to go and they're the worst thing to happen to working people in Ohio in years.


I think you should take out the word working, and insert union, in the above quote. That's what you really mean. I work in Ohio and Kasich hasn't affected me or anyone I know one bit.



I'm sure you will be voting no on Issue 2. I, and damn near everyone I know will be voting yes. Here's why:


Senate Bill 5 is not an attack on public employees or the middle class, the fiscally sustainable measures contained in the bill are an effort to protect Ohio jobs and maintain the quality of life for public and private sector workers. Myths and innuendo about SB5 can leave a voter baffled about what the bill actually intends to change and how the process will unfold.


The nonprofit Building a Better Ohio organization has embarked upon a fact sharing campaign to educate voters about the line items contained in the fiscally responsible bill.

Ohio Senate Bill 5 Myths and Facts

Myth: State Issue 2 is an attack on Ohio's middle class.

Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. The sustainable and reasonable spending reforms decrease taxpayer cost to fund government employee benefits and pay. Currently public employee annual salaries and fringe benefit packages comprise 80 percent of local budgets. State Issue 2 offers a fiscally feasible and common sense approach to fulfilling our commitment to government workers without over-taxing the public.

Myth: State Issue 2 Means Job Cuts.

Fact: Ohio Senate Bill 5 will prevent not only more layoffs of government employees but enhance opportunities in the private sector. Gov. Kasich's efforts have already attracted new businesses and prevent existing companies from moving to southern state where operational costs are far less than in the Buckeye State. Ohio's tax burden both on a statewide and local level rank among the top third highest in the United States. The best economic minds can devise a perfect plan for recovery, but unless out-of-control spending is thwarted, the result will not foster long-term success

Myth: State Issue 2 will make striking illegal and destroy unions.

Fact: Current state laws already prevent government safety workers from striking. Senate Bill 5 would expand the existing rules to include all local and state employees. Strikes have been a rarity for the past two decades in Ohio. Federal employees have resolved disputes through negotiations since the Roosevelt era, as they are not permitted to strike.

Myth: State Issue 2 will reduce teacher salaries.

Fact: Fear mongering by union leaders have promoted this myth since the initial discussions pertaining to Senate Bill 5. The law will eliminate the fiscally irresponsible and intellectually baffling practice of awarding "step" raises based solely on years worked. The teacher evaluation process will prompt raises based upon performance. Schools across the state are clamoring for federal "Race to the Top" federal grant funds and will have to make the raise evaluation processes changes if awarded money from the taxpayer funded grant program created by President Barack Obama.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 70
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 6:24:54 PM
ready 4...... The main issue State Unions have with issue 5 is that it would eliminate Union workers from collectively bargaing for wages, pension and safety matters. Something you did'nt mention and no myth at all.If I was a fireman or policeman I'd be pretty concerned about this.

This is just a ploy to eliminate state unions. If this succeeds then public sector unions will be next in Ohio. Since I am Union naturally this concerns me. Whether you are union or not this should concern anyone who works for a wage in Ohio.

On Aug 17th. Gov Kasich found out the issue 5 petition had enough signatures to be put on the Nov. ballot. Suddenly, he wanted to negotiate with all of the Unions he previously dissed when he rammed this legislation down their throats.

And, from what I see every state that elected a Tea Party Governor is having similar issues regarding this hostility to workers rights.

And, you're right I won't be voting for issue 2.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 71
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 8:21:54 PM
Still, whats amazing is that the GOP can convince someone like Ready to vote against his own self interest and against his neighbors in favor of those who have made a habit out of screwing them over.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 72
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 10:31:20 PM
Truthfully, I could care less about private unions, as I have the choice to vote for them with my wallet, which I do, as I always pass on union companies whenever possible. Seems those union cats always want to take a bigger chunk of money out of it every time.

My issue is with the unions that influence jobs whose salary is paid for by myself and other taxpayers, without any choice. Mainly government and fed unions. They need to be given raises on merit, not length of time on the job. I have worked for the government, and the lazy and the rule benders were the only people who benefitted from unions (no wonder democrats love unions so much!!), the rest of us who worked hard and did what we should never got anything from them but a paycheck reduction from dues. In fact, it's why I left that job, I got sick of watching people who constantly broke the rules get their jobs back and do nothings get moved up due to nothing other than the amount of time they were there. There were more incompetent people working there than in any job I've ever worked in my life. Maybe in other unions that isn't so, but in government it's rampant.

As far as collective bargaining goes, that's the main reason for this whole thing. Nobody in the government sector is working in unsafe conditions, except those who take high risk positions to begin with like police and firemen and how exactly do you make their jobs any safer or less safer--send the union stewards to the gunfight or the blazing building ahead of time? "Nope, there's bullets flying down here, Bobbo, keep our boys far away..........." Bullsh*t. They know what they are getting into before they get into it, or they are complete and utter fools. It's all about wages and pensions, and since they are taxpayer funded we need them under control. Last time I checked there were plenty of folks lining up to do those unsafe jobs, and I doubt the lack of collective bargaining will thin out the line too much. I'd even be willing to bet, if it came down to it, lack of a union wouldn't thin the horde all that much, either.



I live about an eighth of a mile from Moraine Ohio, a town built because of GM. All the factories here are closed. Big lot of good those unions did for them. Unemployment around this area is rumored to be hovering around 15%. Maybe if the unions hadn't gotten their workers ridiculous benefits and wages all those years, those plants could have stayed open. The first $16,000.00 of every new car GM sells goes to pay the pensions of those who no longer produce anything for the company, plus they get medicare and social security. No wonder buying a car puts you in hock until it's a rustbucket that doesn't run anymore. But keep on voting pro-union and pretty soon we'll have even fewer jobs left than we do now as those unions drive more and more of those companies out of business. Or overseas.

Moraine Ohio citizens are my neighbors Blade, and I'll bet you every damn one of them (or at least the majority of less hard headed ones), if given the choice of still having a job or having a union, would pick the job. Do you know how sad it is to see a 55 year old x-GM jobsetter working as a fry cook, or have you ever had to tell a guy who 2 years ago made 25.00 an hour at GM that you have to let him go because he doesn't have the right skills to be a clerk at a convienience store for 8.00 an hour? I've had the displeasure of seeing one and doing the other lately and both times it made me physically ill.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 73
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 2:01:24 AM
Manipulated their currency so their cars were cheaper.


Or maybe their cars were cheaper because they weren't paying guys 30 bucks an hours to stand on an assembly line? Paying 17.50 an hour to a girl who sewed the covers for the seats? Paying 22.50 an hour for the guy who drove the car from the assembly line to the lot it was stored in? Paying hundreds of millions a years to people who no longer worked for them because a union negotiated ridiculous pensions for them?
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 74
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 2:53:06 AM
Ready, nevermind the pay the ceo's of these companies draw down. That has nothing to do with company profitability. And, If Gov. Kasich was indeed the leader he claims he'd have cut his own pay before slicing the pay of State workers. Oh, workers in his cabinet because he wanted to draw the "best and brightest" to his administration.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience while working a union job though. From what I understand the State unions were willing to concede on the wage issues mentioned. It's a moot point though as the right to bargain was removed by passing issue 5. If you give up your rights to negotiate you're just stepping back and one step closer to begging.

Ready.... Incidentally The Toledo Jeep plant here is actually adding 1100 jobs. Yes, the Union made concessions but it's still there . How could this happen...Answer....NEGOTIATION.....
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 75
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 4:20:14 AM
1100 new jobs? Great news....well except.............

http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/10/0112/GM.html



The economic impact caused by a single, large manufacturing plant closing in America is massive, according to research conducted by the Institute for Research on Labor, Employment and the Economy (IRLEE) at the University of Michigan.

In a case study on the closure of the General Motors Moraine Assembly Plant in Montgomery County, Ohio, IRLEE director Marian Krzyzowski and associate director Lawrence Molnar found that for every hourly job lost 15 jobs in the economy disappeared with it.

GM closed its 4.1 million-square-foot Moraine Assembly operation in late 2008, laying off 2,170 hourly workers. The event led to the loss of another 10,850 indirect jobs (for a total of 13,020 jobs lost) in the immediate vicinity of the plant.

But job losses cascaded through GM's supply chain, with the elimination of another 3,334 jobs: DMAX laid off 645 workers; Jamestown Industries laid off 80 workers; Johnson Controls laid off 130 workers; PMG Ohio laid off 70 workers; Plastech laid off 88 workers; four Delphi plants that supplied Moraine laid off 2,120 workers; Tenneco laid off 118 workers; and EFTEC laid off 83 workers.

As a result, the total number of indirect jobs lost due to the Moraine plant shutdown was 27,520.

In all 33,024 workers were impacted by closing one large factory.


And that's one plant. Maybe those CEOs large salary caused it all, but I do know Steve Martin, the CEO of the Delphi plants took almost a 99% pay cut. Something tells me it was more than that, though.
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