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 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
Msg: 51
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I burned my bridges with a narcissistPage 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Whenwillthiswork26 says:

When a lover finds out that they aren't the wonderful person they
pretend to be then they become mean and hurtful. They never
cared about the person to begin with except as someone to feed
the narcissists ego, and when that ends they switch over to the real
monster behind the facade. They switch from sweet, kind and
wonderful to hurtful, spiteful and bent on destroying.


My "N" left me for her lover and she said she was going to move in with him indirectly saying. Her lover knew she was married with two children and he was causing a divorce.
My "N" has told me "he will be the children's new daddy" Also, when I was able to see my sons they told me that my spouse's lover was their daddy. What a nightmare!

If the above statement is true, my question is "Why would my wife take such a risk if her lover my change his mind of being in the new father role?"
And, why would my spouse's lover want to be the new role of being called "Daddy"?

If I was in my spouses lover's shoes, I would be wondering why she wants to have her children call me "Daddy".
 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/3/2010 12:01:45 PM
anonymouslyme :

Well that hit me like a load of bricks.. it made a lot of sense. The more I know about who she really is the more vicious she has gotten. She does play the victim card very well. I just feel sorry for my kids when this supply fails.
 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/3/2010 1:06:04 PM
Absolutely,
When I realized she had no intentions of letting me see my children let alone talk to them, I got a lawyer and pulled the uncontested the divorce off the docket. When I got the letter from the court for the date of the final hearing notice of the uncontested divorce, that is when she went into no contact with children. During our first 4 way we came to agreement to pick up the children from school and keep them at my place so when she got off work, she can pick them up from my apartment. Needless to say on the first day, she call and ask me to bring them to McDonalds. Right after I pulled my son out of the back seat, her face changed and she said she will abide my the 4 way agreement and when then tried to provoke a fight. After a few hard words I said I am just going to let me lawyer handle it and turn to go back into my car. She quickly cut me off and had her hands all over me. All I did was brush her hands off me and she started screaming assault and called 911. I sat down in my car and she barred the driver door and continued to scream assault. The cops came and we were questioned. I was let go since I was calm. She was hysterical the whole time and could not get her story right. She demanded I get arrested. The next day she filed a restraining order against me for the assault and I was barred to see my kids again. During the restraining order hearing, she got a new higher ended lawyer and fired the old. Instead of seeing the judge at that hearing, the lawyer went out to make a deal on me seeing the children. Now I can only see then two days a week for 2 to 3 hrs each. I told my lawyer I will only want to pick up the kids in a substation. Did not want to go thru that again. The first day, I only got to see my younger son, and we went to chucky cheese. The whole time he ran away from me tell me I was a bad papa and I hate you. I love mama's boy friend. I love mama. mama loves her boy friends. Boy friend loves mama. It was absolutely terrible. So then next few visits, the other kid is sick. Now they are both sick on the next visit. It just keeps getting worse. When I was home with the kids when we were still a family. She ran off dressed to kill and disappeared for hours.
I sat and watched the kids and made them busy. Now she tells the court that I should be supervised visits because I am dangerous to the kids. It takes all my energy just not give up. And, worst of all I see my kids acting like her... completely spoiled and selfish. especially the youngest one who is 4. The older one who is 6 just incredibly happy with my spouses lover because they are going skiing or rock climbing. And my son keeps calling me his name; Urrrrggg!
It really is getting to be frustrating.
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/3/2010 2:02:02 PM

They are just desperate not to evoke their mother's wrath.


I didn't really want to get into this in depth....

My Mom tried to, and did alienate me from my Dad. My sister and I weren't allowed to say his name in the house. My Mom viewed that as "disloyalty".

I would not want to go with my Dad, because I knew what would happen when I got home...my Mom would interrogate me for hours about what was said "about her". My Dad knew something was wrong, and never mentioned my Mom when I was with him....but Mom didn't believe that....

I got sick from time to time when I was supposed to go with my Dad....I wanted to go, but I couldn't deal with my Mom....your child may really be saying he's sick.....

Your kids want to be with you....trust me.....they are just doing whatever your ex says, so that she won't harrass them when they get home.

Please don't give up, they need your help....they need you to stand up to her, and tell her to stop the nonsense that she's pulling, that her problem is with you, not them, and to leave them out of it..........YES YOU CAN DO IT!
 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
Msg: 55
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/3/2010 4:11:32 PM
Silk,

Yes I did go to Ukraine to find a wife. She was not my intended correspondence that I met.
Actually, she pursue me and actually won me over. She is very beautiful but not by a long shot to some of the women who was on my interview list which my tour provided. I say she was 5 from the top so I thought I was being conservative. I dated her about 3 years prior to having her come to United States. I flew back and forth to Ukraine during our courtship.
My first son was born aboard. I did not have the correct formal translated paperwork to marry in Ukraine and the Visa would have taken far longer than a K-1 visa. Mishka was born aboard but he is my son out of wedlock. I would do this again if I wanted, I have no problem marrying a women from another country. Especially, from Ukraine when my sons speak a little Ukrainian. Dating women from Ukrainian vs. marrying another women from Ukraine are two different things. Many play boys with money go there to date because of the attention. If I do marry a women from Ukraine, I would evaluate her very close as to the same as here if she was an American. There are good women in Ukraine as well as here, so find bad apples everywhere. It just cost a lot more money to marry abroad. I am just stating that in Ukraine, there are more desperate women and a lot more of them can be narcissistic. Life is much harder there and more people will play you. There are a lot of women who marry husband abroad also, it is just not men. My kids are Ukrainian, If I do have a choice. I will marry Ukrainian for that reason! if I decide to remarry. I do not know how you would evaluate any person in a 3 month status visit here in the United States when they come over on a K-1 visa. That is the problem, you cannot know someone in three months. I waited 3 years and I still did not know my wife well other than she wanted to come to the United States.

I understand what you said about the other stuff. I just miss seeing my kids and I don't understand why she did the things she did other than the fact she wants me not to have a relationship with my children.
 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/4/2010 8:01:11 AM
anonymouslyme,

I read some stuff on PAS last night. It can actually destroy a relationship with a child for ever. Really scary stuff and selfish stuff.
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/4/2010 10:52:58 AM

Kids aren't stupid, and as they get older, they will be able to see things for what they are, much as Quazi pointed out from her own personal experience.


Jonnev

If your ex's behaviour is as "dramatic" as you have said, and you were close to your kids, and had lots of one on one time, while your ex wasn't around, I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't wondering why you aren't "rescuing" them.

I was a bit older than your kids, but I wanted my Dad to take me away from my Mom so badly......

Courts have much more insight these days about these matters. The Mother doesn't always get custody....

If you had your kids, and treated them well, they would quickly forget about "hating" you.....
 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/4/2010 2:10:11 PM
Quazi,
The monster came out gradually, and my thoughts were never to take the children away from the mother in any case. As she got more vicious, this is when I saw the kids being used as a tool. Most of my thoughts were always suspicions on her behavior behind my back.
She was able to hide the bad betraying behavior very well and play the poor pious women.
It was like there was two different people. I really don't know how well she treats the kids when I am not there but I do know she is capable of great cruelty and selfishness in order to get her way. She is very good at pitting people against each other. It is really sad to see over obsessed with kids. They are always running around with her like a mama bear and cubs from one activity to another. Always competing and trying to do activities for her. I feel it she gives so much darn attention that the kids are lost in her shadow.
I have a restraining order against me from see the kids other than visits due the incident at McDonalds.
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/4/2010 8:36:48 PM

I read some stuff on PAS last night. It can actually destroy a relationship with a child for ever. Really scary stuff and selfish stuff.


I'm gonna come really clean here.....PAS happens....and it ruins lives.

By the time I was about 10, I was seeing my Dad very infrequently. When I did see him, I would become physically ill when I had to leave.

I was 16 the last time I saw my Dad. When I got home, my Mom (an alcoholic) grilled me for hours about what had happened on the visit....Mom had been divorced from Dad since I was 9 and remarried shortly after that. That's 7 years, that she hadn't seen or spoken to my Dad....but, she got drunk and threatened me with all kinds of punishments, if I didn't "tell her what he said".....her name was never mentioned. Mom had BPD....Borderline Personality Disorder.

Two years later, when I was 18, my Dad committed suicide. I hadn't seen him in two years. Although he had bipolar disorder, I was told that my Dad often had bad depression, because he felt helpless because he wanted to get me away from my Mom, but couldn't figure out how to do it........my sister was married.

When my Dad died, we didn't talk about it....I didn't go to a funeral, there was nothing. Still couldn't say his name in the house. Only thing that upset Mom, was that she didn't get to kill him....she really said that. I believe (and therapists have agreed with me)...that I went insane.....I didn't know what was real, and what wasn't. What saved me, was that I had a boyfriend, who had a "normal" family, and they gave me some of the sympathy that I should have gotten from my family.

That was over 30 years ago. Alot of things have changed since then. Your kids need you....desperately to help them.....soon. The longer your ex has her claws in them, the more work you'll have to do to undo what she's done. They are people, and they will grow up, and they will not be normal.....and you need to prevent them from suffering, as soon as possible.
 jonnev
Joined: 1/7/2010
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/5/2010 12:09:42 PM
Quazi,
I am so sorry... Any one knows what a child family investigator does literally when they investigate?
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/5/2010 5:53:03 PM
I did post a response, anonymouslyme.....it's gone. I'll post it again soon.

Jonnev....

Again things will have changed enormously since I was a child. My Dad called Children's Aid on my Mom....she was a bad alcoholic.

I don't know exactly what Children's Aid did, but I do remember my Mom warning me that if I said one wrong thing (did I know what a wrong thing was?) there would be big trouble.

Workers are trained these days to read between the lines, not to necessarily believe what they see or hear. They can tell if kids are very tense, and aren't sure what to say....or if they're making it up as they go along (the worker can "lead" them...suggest things for the child to say).....too much of that, and the worker knows that the child isn't telling him/her the truth.

I don't know if they can just show up, or if they have to give warning....we had warning...too much warning.
 jonnev
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/5/2010 6:26:06 PM
another terrible visit... I really wanna choke my Ex... never did anything but love her and she cheats then turns my kids against me, urrggg!... Youngest sons runs away from me and tells me that you are not my father anymore... Jason is my father now... it really sucks..
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/5/2010 7:35:57 PM

another terrible visit... I really wanna choke my Ex... never did anything but love her and she cheats then turns my kids against me, urrggg!... Youngest sons runs away from me and tells me that you are not my father anymore... Jason is my father now... it really sucks..


Jonnev

I sympathize with what you are going through, but what your kids are doing is a reflection of what your ex is TEACHING THEM. They don't really hate you, your wife is TEACHING THEM to hate you.....she is telling them that Jason is their father now. Your kids aren't old enough to learn anything but what is told to them....they don't have insight to pick out lies from truth.

Yes it sucks....you need to intervene!
 jonnev
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/6/2010 9:36:50 AM
no, during the first 4 way with lawyers.. she tried to convince the lawyer I was dangerous and I should be supervised.. She was trying to paint a picture of me being the horrible person. Even her lawyer told her to behave... I guess that is why she fired him.
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/6/2010 9:45:19 AM

Hello Quazi, I did see the response you posted before it was removed. I can't imagine how conflicted you mst have felt during those last days. All I can say is your heart must be made of pure gold to have handled things with such grace and love.


I'm glad you saw the post....it was a hard one.

That was one of the hardest things I've ever done. And one of the best things I've ever done. Deciding to put my feelings aside, and concentrate on my Mom empowered me. I knew I was doing the right thing, and it made me feel good about myself.

When the time was close, she told me to tell everyone to go for dinner....they did, and Mom was gone 10 minutes later.....

It was traumatic to watch, but again I knew I was doing the right thing......

I wonder what happened to my post.....lol????
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/7/2010 8:38:04 AM

Quazi, Thank you for finding the courage to share that horrendous experience. I think jonnev would be well served to consider the long term effects PAS could have on his children, if nothing is done to intervene. I would be curious to know, Quazi, if you still maintain any contact with your mother, if you are inclined to share any further.


My post was in response to this post....I'll post it again it will be easier this time....

D: I don't know where it went apparently Died1000deaths posts went missing too....I really wish that it hadn't been THAT post....

SparklingRose...Thanks for your kind words...I really appreciate them. Labels enable stigma...but on the other hand, they enable the 'sufferer' to see the construction of the label, and helps better understanding, if nothing else.

This situation with Jonnev is hitting me where I live. Some parents don't care what they put their children through, in their quest to destroy their partner. I'm trying to show Jonnev that what the children are expressing is exactly what their Mother has fed them to express....they're too young to articulate that kind of emotion on their own. What Jonnev is seeing isn't real. He needs to not worry about the "displays" from the children, and work to get them away from the actual "displayer".

My Post: As I was growing up, I knew that my Dad had depression because of me....he had written very infrequent letters over the years...so I knew.

When I was 40, I had a meeting with my Dad's wife's daughter....she was trying to make me feel better about my Dad...she said " Your Dad really loved you....he would get depressed, and end up in the hospital because of you.....". I didn't feel better, I felt guilty, and I wanted to strangle my Mom. I am BPD and I was livid at my Mom...

At that time, my Mom was dying of cancer, and while she was in the hospital, I was her main caretaker......I decided that I had already totally missed my Dad's death, and I wasn't prepared to do that again with my Mom.....I swallowed my anger, and carried on with Mom....

I cared for her, and was with her until after she died....I was with her when she passed.

I was going to therapy more than regularly at that point, I needed the help to get through what I was doing....
 jonnev
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/7/2010 2:59:39 PM
Quazi,

My lawyer got a CFI Child Family Investigator on-line.. It is gonna be expensive, I still feel apprehensive because it seems like women always win.. They cry.. Then they win.. My ex is just a brutal mean vicious women with a soulless expression on her face until she realizes she is not gonna get her way, then she cries and looks for empathy.
 Quazi 100
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/8/2010 7:35:50 AM

My lawyer got a CFI Child Family Investigator on-line.. It is gonna be expensive, I still feel apprehensive because it seems like women always win.. They cry.. Then they win.. My ex is just a brutal mean vicious women with a soulless expression on her face until she realizes she is not gonna get her way, then she cries and looks for empathy.


Jonnev....

I understand your apprehension.....especially when dealing with a Narc.

I congratulate you for doing the "right thing".

Since we both know what the "right" outcome is, but that hasn't happened yet, all I can do is hope that the CFI is good at what he/she does, because from what you're describing to me, what your ex is doing to your kids is hard to miss.

I have looked on many profiles on POF....men, and women. I can tell you, that a significant number of men have 100% custody of their kids. One gentleman's profile boasted of being a devoted "hockey Dad".....his child was a girl. Things are changing, the woman doesn't automatically get custody these days.

I'm betting that your ex's behaviour will speak for itself....for her, and through your kids.

Have faith.
 forum101
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 2/10/2012 7:52:01 PM
Kudos, and AMEN, inspiring, breaking through the waves to the real reality.
 forum101
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 2/10/2012 7:54:50 PM
Kudos, and AMEN, inspiring, breaking through the waves to the real reality.
 Krissie59
Joined: 10/15/2010
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:31:37 PM
You have just described my life with my ex husband...
 ControlledFolly
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:46:43 PM
I had the misfortune of getting involved with someone with NPD, the only way i could get away to just get up and go. After 3 failed attempts and imprisoned ever more each time i tried and gave into the 'i will change stuff' it got worse

In a space of 5 minutes, she said something that was averagely repulsive and nasty and i just got up, put what i could into a plastic bag, drove across country and hid at a friends place until i could finally get some money in the bank and get started again. LOL a man in his 40's and all he had was a plastic bag of clothes. Ive seen hobos with more!

It really was the only way, i destroyed my phone told a few family members where i was and i was ok and thats it. No contact since. oh she tried, had the police after me all the time as a missing person. You can never give them the oppotunity to talk or meet they will manipulate the situation and say whatever it takes to avoid having to come to terms with the fact that someone dared to leave them.

Anyone that has lived with this has my deepest sympathy, and those that have survived it have my heartfelt congratulations for making the break. Anyone that wishes to talk to me about this or needs support, my inbox is open.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 73
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 8:29:31 AM
Here's the thing I don't get. Granted this is Sam Vaknin. For the most part though many experts have the same thing to say for those that truly survived an individual who has NPD or AsPD. Basically in order for you to be an ideal partner you would have to be as out of touch with reality as they are. They are delusional. More likely have delusions of grandeur. You would have to be as emotionally unavailable as they are if not worse as you would be even emotionally unavailable to yourself.



On the face of it, there is no (emotional) partner or mate, who typically “binds” with a sociopathic narcissist. They come in all shapes and sizes. The initial phases of attraction, infatuation and falling in love are pretty normal. The sociopathic narcissist puts on his best face – the other party is blinded by budding love. A natural selection process occurs only much later, as the relationship develops, the sociopath shows his true colors and the relationship is put to the test.

Living with a sociopathic narcissist can be exhilarating, is always onerous, often harrowing. Surviving a relationship with a sociopathic narcissist indicates, therefore, the parameters of the personality of the survivor. She (or, more rarely, he) is molded by the relationship into The Typical Sociopathic narcissistic Mate/Partner/Spouse.

First and foremost, the sociopathic narcissist’s partner must have a deficient grasp of her self and of reality. Otherwise, she (or he) is bound to abandon the sociopathic narcissist’s ship after the honeymoon phase is over. The cognitive distortion is likely to consist of belittling and demeaning herself – while aggrandising and adoring the sociopathic narcissist. The partner is, thus, placing himself in the position of the eternal victim: undeserving, punishable, a scapegoat. Sometimes, it is very important to the partner to appear moral, sacrificial and victimised. At other times, she is not even aware of this predicament. The sociopathic narcissist is perceived by the partner to be a person in the position to demand these sacrifices from his partner, being superior to her in many ways (intellectually, emotionally, morally, financially).

The status of professional victim sits well with the partner’s tendency to punish herself, namely: with her masochistic streak. The tormented life with the sociopathic narcissist is, as far as the partner is aware, a just punitive measure.

In this respect, the partner is the mirror image of the sociopathic narcissist. By maintaining a symbiotic relationship with him, by being totally dependent upon the source of masochistic supply (which the sociopathic narcissist most reliably constitutes and most amply provides) – the partner enhances certain traits and encourages certain behaviours, which are at the very core of narcissism.

The sociopathic narcissist is never whole without an adoring, submissive, available, self-denigrating partner. His very sense of superiority, indeed his False Self, depends on it. His sadistic Superego switches its attentions from the sociopathic narcissist (in whom it often provokes suicidal ideation) to the partner, thus finally obtaining an alternative source of sadistic satisfaction.

It is through self-denial that the partner survives. She denies her wishes, hopes, dreams, aspirations, sexual, psychological and material needs, and much else besides. She perceives her needs as threatening because they might engender the wrath of the sociopathic narcissist’s God-like supreme figure. The sociopathic narcissist is rendered in her eyes even more superior through and because of this self-denial. Self-denial undertaken to facilitate and ease the life of a “great man” is more palatable. The “greater” the man (=the sociopathic narcissist), the easier it is for the partner to ignore her own self, to dwindle, to degenerate, to turn into an appendix of the sociopathic narcissist and, finally, to become nothing but an extension, to merge with the sociopathic narcissist to the point of oblivion and of dim memories of one’s self.

The two collaborate in this macabre dance. The sociopathic narcissist is formed by his partner inasmuch as he forms her. Submission breeds superiority and masochism breeds sadism. The relationships are characterised by rampant emergentism: roles are allocated almost from the start and any deviation meets with an aggressive, even violent reaction.

The predominant state of the partner’s mind is utter confusion. Even the most basic relationships – with husband, children, or parents – remain bafflingly obscured by the giant shadow cast by the intensive interaction with the sociopathic narcissist. A suspension of judgement is part and parcel of a suspension of individuality, which is both a prerequisite to and the result of living with a sociopathic narcissist. The partner no longer knows what is true and right and what is wrong and forbidden.

The sociopathic narcissist recreates for the partner the sort of emotional ambience that led to his own formation in the first place: capriciousness, fickleness, arbitrariness, emotional (and physical or sexual) abandonment. The world becomes uncertain and frightening and the partner has only one thing to cling to: the sociopathic narcissist.

And cling she does. If there is anything which can safely be said about those who emotionally team up with sociopathic narcissists, it is that they are overtly and overly dependent.

The partner doesn’t know what to do – and this is only too natural in the mayhem that is the relationship with the sociopathic narcissist. But the typical partner also does not know what she wants and, to a large extent, who she is and what she wants to become.

These unanswered questions hamper the partner’s ability to gauge reality, evaluate and appraise it for what it is. Her primordial sin is that she fell in love with an image, not with a real person. It is the voiding of the image that is mourned when the relationship ends.

The break-up of a relationship with a sociopathic narcissist is, therefore, very emotionally charged. It is the culmination of a long chain of humiliations and of subjugation. It is the rebellion of the functioning and healthy parts of the partner’s personality against the tyranny of the sociopathic narcissist.

The partner is liable to have totally misread and misinterpreted the whole interaction (I hesitate to call it a relationship). This lack of proper interface with reality might be (erroneously) labelled “pathological”.

Why is it that the partner seeks to prolong her pain? What is the source and purpose of this masochistic streak? Upon the break-up of the relationship, the partner (and the sociopathic narcissist) engage in a tortuous and drawn out post mortem. But the question who really did what to whom (and even why) is irrelevant. What is relevant is to stop mourning oneself (this is what the parties are really mourning), start smiling again and love in a less subservient, hopeless, and pain-inflicting manner.



For you to come on a public forum and claim to be such a person speaks mental illness and makes you desperate for attention you won't be getting from me. Fact is people get used for numerous reasons by other people everyday. Either perceived necessity for self preservation or what have you. Just because an individual is selfish self centered and puts little to no care into their SO doesn't mean they have an out an out mental disorder. Just because they were all about you during the chase and petered off after the chase doesn't mean they meet a set of criteria. Some things are normal to a degree and some things are in excess as we all have a certain tendency to do as it is. By saying your ex is a narcissist. You are saying YOU are a person who lacks confidence so they can feed off of you; as a person lacking confidence you stayed with a narcissist if only because you feel or felt this person is too good to let go. God knows they had to be feeding you how they were to good for you 24/7 and you had to be gobbling it up like a thanksgiving diner too? Is that who you people really are?
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:22:31 AM
What Sam is saying has to be taken with a grain of salt. There will be degrees of dysfunction when SO's are selected. Watch the movie "Gaslight". Susceptible people can be made to go mad by their partner.

What better mate for an NPD to select, than a BPD....someone with very little identity?

And what exactly is your point, anyway? No Sam Vaknin....just your point.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 75
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:38:01 AM

What Sam is saying has to be taken with a grain of salt. There will be degrees of dysfunction when SO's are selected. Watch the movie "Gaslight". Susceptible people can be made to go mad by their partner.


I do take it with a grain of salt but there are accredited professionals who back the basic points I quoted.


What better mate for an NPD to select, than a BPD....someone with very little identity?


That pretty much hits the nail on the head. Puts it into prospective for all the potential readers that self professed "NPD victims" have very little identity of their own.

So basically between the 2 of us Quazi we have established that the self proclaimed "NPD victims" have almost no identity of their own. Are out of touch with reality as the NPD is. They are as delusional as the NPD is. They are emotionally unavailable as the NPD are if not worse as the "NPD victim" would be even emotionally unavailable to their self. "NPD victims" are people who lacks confidence so the NPD can feed off of them; as a person lacking confidence they stayed with a narcissist if only because they feel or felt this person is too good to let go. The NPD's were feeding "the NPD victims" how they were to good for them 24/7 and the "NPD victims" were gobbling it up like a thanksgiving diner.


And what exactly is your point, anyway? No Sam Vaknin....just your point.


Other than what I stated in my first post. No point. Just happy you clarified and agreed. Glad you read through it so very carefully before responding. Thank you Quazi.

To the OP who is long gone I'm sure. Anytime there are mind altering drugs someone is addicted to your backyard diagnosis would be completely invalid anyway. A person can be one way off drugs and a completely different way on drugs. When someone goes through rehab and you see them several months latter they can seem like a completely different person. So how can someone say a drug addict is a clinical NPD and mean it?
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