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 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 68
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I burned my bridges with a narcissistPage 6 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

My lawyer got a CFI Child Family Investigator on-line.. It is gonna be expensive, I still feel apprehensive because it seems like women always win.. They cry.. Then they win.. My ex is just a brutal mean vicious women with a soulless expression on her face until she realizes she is not gonna get her way, then she cries and looks for empathy.


Jonnev....

I understand your apprehension.....especially when dealing with a Narc.

I congratulate you for doing the "right thing".

Since we both know what the "right" outcome is, but that hasn't happened yet, all I can do is hope that the CFI is good at what he/she does, because from what you're describing to me, what your ex is doing to your kids is hard to miss.

I have looked on many profiles on POF....men, and women. I can tell you, that a significant number of men have 100% custody of their kids. One gentleman's profile boasted of being a devoted "hockey Dad".....his child was a girl. Things are changing, the woman doesn't automatically get custody these days.

I'm betting that your ex's behaviour will speak for itself....for her, and through your kids.

Have faith.
 forum101
Joined: 2/5/2008
Msg: 69
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 2/10/2012 7:52:01 PM
Kudos, and AMEN, inspiring, breaking through the waves to the real reality.
 forum101
Joined: 2/5/2008
Msg: 70
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 2/10/2012 7:54:50 PM
Kudos, and AMEN, inspiring, breaking through the waves to the real reality.
 Krissie59
Joined: 10/15/2010
Msg: 71
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:31:37 PM
You have just described my life with my ex husband...
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 72
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:46:43 PM
I had the misfortune of getting involved with someone with NPD, the only way i could get away to just get up and go. After 3 failed attempts and imprisoned ever more each time i tried and gave into the 'i will change stuff' it got worse

In a space of 5 minutes, she said something that was averagely repulsive and nasty and i just got up, put what i could into a plastic bag, drove across country and hid at a friends place until i could finally get some money in the bank and get started again. LOL a man in his 40's and all he had was a plastic bag of clothes. Ive seen hobos with more!

It really was the only way, i destroyed my phone told a few family members where i was and i was ok and thats it. No contact since. oh she tried, had the police after me all the time as a missing person. You can never give them the oppotunity to talk or meet they will manipulate the situation and say whatever it takes to avoid having to come to terms with the fact that someone dared to leave them.

Anyone that has lived with this has my deepest sympathy, and those that have survived it have my heartfelt congratulations for making the break. Anyone that wishes to talk to me about this or needs support, my inbox is open.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 73
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 8:29:31 AM
Here's the thing I don't get. Granted this is Sam Vaknin. For the most part though many experts have the same thing to say for those that truly survived an individual who has NPD or AsPD. Basically in order for you to be an ideal partner you would have to be as out of touch with reality as they are. They are delusional. More likely have delusions of grandeur. You would have to be as emotionally unavailable as they are if not worse as you would be even emotionally unavailable to yourself.



On the face of it, there is no (emotional) partner or mate, who typically “binds” with a sociopathic narcissist. They come in all shapes and sizes. The initial phases of attraction, infatuation and falling in love are pretty normal. The sociopathic narcissist puts on his best face – the other party is blinded by budding love. A natural selection process occurs only much later, as the relationship develops, the sociopath shows his true colors and the relationship is put to the test.

Living with a sociopathic narcissist can be exhilarating, is always onerous, often harrowing. Surviving a relationship with a sociopathic narcissist indicates, therefore, the parameters of the personality of the survivor. She (or, more rarely, he) is molded by the relationship into The Typical Sociopathic narcissistic Mate/Partner/Spouse.

First and foremost, the sociopathic narcissist’s partner must have a deficient grasp of her self and of reality. Otherwise, she (or he) is bound to abandon the sociopathic narcissist’s ship after the honeymoon phase is over. The cognitive distortion is likely to consist of belittling and demeaning herself – while aggrandising and adoring the sociopathic narcissist. The partner is, thus, placing himself in the position of the eternal victim: undeserving, punishable, a scapegoat. Sometimes, it is very important to the partner to appear moral, sacrificial and victimised. At other times, she is not even aware of this predicament. The sociopathic narcissist is perceived by the partner to be a person in the position to demand these sacrifices from his partner, being superior to her in many ways (intellectually, emotionally, morally, financially).

The status of professional victim sits well with the partner’s tendency to punish herself, namely: with her masochistic streak. The tormented life with the sociopathic narcissist is, as far as the partner is aware, a just punitive measure.

In this respect, the partner is the mirror image of the sociopathic narcissist. By maintaining a symbiotic relationship with him, by being totally dependent upon the source of masochistic supply (which the sociopathic narcissist most reliably constitutes and most amply provides) – the partner enhances certain traits and encourages certain behaviours, which are at the very core of narcissism.

The sociopathic narcissist is never whole without an adoring, submissive, available, self-denigrating partner. His very sense of superiority, indeed his False Self, depends on it. His sadistic Superego switches its attentions from the sociopathic narcissist (in whom it often provokes suicidal ideation) to the partner, thus finally obtaining an alternative source of sadistic satisfaction.

It is through self-denial that the partner survives. She denies her wishes, hopes, dreams, aspirations, sexual, psychological and material needs, and much else besides. She perceives her needs as threatening because they might engender the wrath of the sociopathic narcissist’s God-like supreme figure. The sociopathic narcissist is rendered in her eyes even more superior through and because of this self-denial. Self-denial undertaken to facilitate and ease the life of a “great man” is more palatable. The “greater” the man (=the sociopathic narcissist), the easier it is for the partner to ignore her own self, to dwindle, to degenerate, to turn into an appendix of the sociopathic narcissist and, finally, to become nothing but an extension, to merge with the sociopathic narcissist to the point of oblivion and of dim memories of one’s self.

The two collaborate in this macabre dance. The sociopathic narcissist is formed by his partner inasmuch as he forms her. Submission breeds superiority and masochism breeds sadism. The relationships are characterised by rampant emergentism: roles are allocated almost from the start and any deviation meets with an aggressive, even violent reaction.

The predominant state of the partner’s mind is utter confusion. Even the most basic relationships – with husband, children, or parents – remain bafflingly obscured by the giant shadow cast by the intensive interaction with the sociopathic narcissist. A suspension of judgement is part and parcel of a suspension of individuality, which is both a prerequisite to and the result of living with a sociopathic narcissist. The partner no longer knows what is true and right and what is wrong and forbidden.

The sociopathic narcissist recreates for the partner the sort of emotional ambience that led to his own formation in the first place: capriciousness, fickleness, arbitrariness, emotional (and physical or sexual) abandonment. The world becomes uncertain and frightening and the partner has only one thing to cling to: the sociopathic narcissist.

And cling she does. If there is anything which can safely be said about those who emotionally team up with sociopathic narcissists, it is that they are overtly and overly dependent.

The partner doesn’t know what to do – and this is only too natural in the mayhem that is the relationship with the sociopathic narcissist. But the typical partner also does not know what she wants and, to a large extent, who she is and what she wants to become.

These unanswered questions hamper the partner’s ability to gauge reality, evaluate and appraise it for what it is. Her primordial sin is that she fell in love with an image, not with a real person. It is the voiding of the image that is mourned when the relationship ends.

The break-up of a relationship with a sociopathic narcissist is, therefore, very emotionally charged. It is the culmination of a long chain of humiliations and of subjugation. It is the rebellion of the functioning and healthy parts of the partner’s personality against the tyranny of the sociopathic narcissist.

The partner is liable to have totally misread and misinterpreted the whole interaction (I hesitate to call it a relationship). This lack of proper interface with reality might be (erroneously) labelled “pathological”.

Why is it that the partner seeks to prolong her pain? What is the source and purpose of this masochistic streak? Upon the break-up of the relationship, the partner (and the sociopathic narcissist) engage in a tortuous and drawn out post mortem. But the question who really did what to whom (and even why) is irrelevant. What is relevant is to stop mourning oneself (this is what the parties are really mourning), start smiling again and love in a less subservient, hopeless, and pain-inflicting manner.



For you to come on a public forum and claim to be such a person speaks mental illness and makes you desperate for attention you won't be getting from me. Fact is people get used for numerous reasons by other people everyday. Either perceived necessity for self preservation or what have you. Just because an individual is selfish self centered and puts little to no care into their SO doesn't mean they have an out an out mental disorder. Just because they were all about you during the chase and petered off after the chase doesn't mean they meet a set of criteria. Some things are normal to a degree and some things are in excess as we all have a certain tendency to do as it is. By saying your ex is a narcissist. You are saying YOU are a person who lacks confidence so they can feed off of you; as a person lacking confidence you stayed with a narcissist if only because you feel or felt this person is too good to let go. God knows they had to be feeding you how they were to good for you 24/7 and you had to be gobbling it up like a thanksgiving diner too? Is that who you people really are?
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 74
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:22:31 AM
What Sam is saying has to be taken with a grain of salt. There will be degrees of dysfunction when SO's are selected. Watch the movie "Gaslight". Susceptible people can be made to go mad by their partner.

What better mate for an NPD to select, than a BPD....someone with very little identity?

And what exactly is your point, anyway? No Sam Vaknin....just your point.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 75
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:38:01 AM

What Sam is saying has to be taken with a grain of salt. There will be degrees of dysfunction when SO's are selected. Watch the movie "Gaslight". Susceptible people can be made to go mad by their partner.


I do take it with a grain of salt but there are accredited professionals who back the basic points I quoted.


What better mate for an NPD to select, than a BPD....someone with very little identity?


That pretty much hits the nail on the head. Puts it into prospective for all the potential readers that self professed "NPD victims" have very little identity of their own.

So basically between the 2 of us Quazi we have established that the self proclaimed "NPD victims" have almost no identity of their own. Are out of touch with reality as the NPD is. They are as delusional as the NPD is. They are emotionally unavailable as the NPD are if not worse as the "NPD victim" would be even emotionally unavailable to their self. "NPD victims" are people who lacks confidence so the NPD can feed off of them; as a person lacking confidence they stayed with a narcissist if only because they feel or felt this person is too good to let go. The NPD's were feeding "the NPD victims" how they were to good for them 24/7 and the "NPD victims" were gobbling it up like a thanksgiving diner.


And what exactly is your point, anyway? No Sam Vaknin....just your point.


Other than what I stated in my first post. No point. Just happy you clarified and agreed. Glad you read through it so very carefully before responding. Thank you Quazi.

To the OP who is long gone I'm sure. Anytime there are mind altering drugs someone is addicted to your backyard diagnosis would be completely invalid anyway. A person can be one way off drugs and a completely different way on drugs. When someone goes through rehab and you see them several months latter they can seem like a completely different person. So how can someone say a drug addict is a clinical NPD and mean it?
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 76
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:53:12 AM
Nice way of twisting my words. One detail you declined to mention....NPD are wonderful actors. While I agree that someone that becomes involved with an NPD probably has low self esteem, and a problem with co-dependence....I don't believe that they are as "delusional as the NPD is." I don't even know that "delusions" are a symptom of NPD.

Because someone may be naive, doesn't mean that they have pathology, necessarily. When times start getting tough, and they stick around, it could be a product of being co-dependent more than anything else.


So how can someone say a drug addict is a clinical NPD and mean it?


Since your opinions are so big, and you should actually know what you're talking about, you should know that 100% of the time, the pathology comes before the addiction. No exceptions.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 77
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 12:25:03 PM

Nice way of twisting my words. One detail you declined to mention....NPD are wonderful actors. While I agree that someone that becomes involved with an NPD probably has low self esteem, and a problem with co-dependence....I don't believe that they are as "delusional as the NPD is." I don't even know that "delusions" are a symptom of NPD.


For the NPD to believe he is as great as he believes his self to be he would have to be delusional to a degree. For his SO to also believe it they would also have to be delusional. So to a degree yeah, dilutions would be a symptom. I didn't twist your words you just didn't read what I wrote very well before responding and this is frustrating because it creates a bunch of unnecessary posts and correspondence between the two of us. Not that I don't enjoy corresponding with you. I just don't see the reason for the correspondence to be so public and to a degree against forum rules. Most of it is clarifying what I'm saying to you. You require more clarification and I don't mind giving you what you need. If you would like to directly e-mail me feel free. We can discuss it out then you can take your time in responding. My meaning can beat around the bush and be indirect so I can cut it straight to the point to help do away with the needless posts that probably bother everyone else.



Since your opinions are so big, and you should actually know what you're talking about, you should know that 100% of the time, the pathology comes before the addiction. No exceptions.


Either way the pathology coming first or the addiction matters not. Just like the chicken or the egg. The fact that if a person takes the controlled substance out of the substance abusers system. The substance abuser no longer meets said criteria is what matters in my eyes. To say every drug addict and alcoholic has NPD is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 78
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 3:01:52 PM
So im a no personality co dependant? - frankly youre an idiot to say that you have no idea who i am. How dare you? you make a blanket statelment that only covers a fraction of the NPD spectrum. I am not saying you are wrong in every example, but to dress it up as an abolsute is idiotic.

The one thing i am not is co dependant, and i guess my lack of personality would be a fair refelction of my highly decorated 27 year military career?

What your opinions dont take into account that sometimes people are laid back and optomistic. These people can sell you the moon. They promise everyrthing.but it takes time that actually realise they deliver nothing. When you call them on this they react in many ways like attempt suicide, wreck your career, isolate your friends and family. Play the 'if you love me' card.

If you are a stone cold **stard that has no compassion for others feelings then great for you and you can ignore this stuff, but because i care and consider it a mark of a man that steps up to the plate and gets stuff sorted.

One thing an NPD has that sets them apart is not only lack of compassion and empathy, but they are actually incapable of realising that others think differently from them. When you develop an independant thought that goes against what they want you to think they go into meltdown. They will first of all try the aggressive solution, if you stand your ground they will tell you exactly what you want to hear, then suggest something thats loosely a compromise, as long as you do their thing first, then have no intention whatsoever of following through on their side of the deal.

What they are very good at is targetting those that have a good nature, kind, generous, and selfless. People like this are optomists, they foolishly hang on waiting to see if the person they first met ever comes back. This never happens because that person was fake, cleverly designed to appear to be their victims perfection.

So i am proud of being a good natured man. If that makes me a victim so be it, maybe i was, i learnt from it it will never happen again. But dont you dare call me co dependant.

I am actually very discerning, she was that good at wearing a mask i never really knew who the real person was. But it takes quite a long time to realise the person you fell for is a scam. By the time you see things for what they are they have managed to find other ways of keeping you there.

Mine faked disability soon after i tried to leave her for the first time. She was faking being arthiritic and wheel chair bound. She knew i wouldnt abandon a cripple in in their hour of need. Again it took time to realise this was a fake, im not a doctor. Theres much more than this. If i had left her then children would have gone into care, i couldnt carry that on my consciece. This too turned out to be fake, she kept that one going for a good year, until just after i left she had a miraculous recovery.

Please dont try to attach generalisations to NPD, its so varied that even those that think someone else has NPD is an NPD trait in its own right.
 windchymes
Joined: 11/29/2008
Msg: 79
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 4:57:34 PM
NPD isn't as black and white as that article stated and neither are the mental states of the people who get involved with them. It's only one article, and barely scratches the surface of what NPD is really all about, as well as the narcissistic subgroups. No opinions or conclusions should be made about anything written in it.

There is some good information this article, it's just one I saved when I was researching the topic: http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/index.html

You need to do lots and lots of research and reading before you make any judgements about the narcissists themselves as well as the people who were and are in relationships with them. It's just not black and white. Quite the opposite, actually, and really a topic where advice should be left to the professionals. And even they don't really like talking about it, lol.

Also, there's a big difference in someone "being narcissistic" and actually having the personality disorder. We all have narcissistic traits to one degree or another, and there are a lot of nasty, self-centered, manipulative people out in the world. That is not the same as being clinically diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 80
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 5:42:39 PM

So im a no personality co dependant? - frankly youre an idiot to say that you have no idea who i am. How dare you?


UKPlymouthBloke This is the first time I've typed your name to say anything to you directly or about you specifically. Now you can be offended at what I have to say.


How dare you?


How dare you sir!! To assume I was saying anything to you specifically. I'm simply introducing you to what you would have to be if your ex is in fact someone diagnosed NPD. Is she? How do you know she didn't have a thousand other potential mental disorders?






you make a blanket statelment that only covers a fraction of the NPD spectrum. I am not saying you are wrong in every example, but to dress it up as an abolsute is idiotic.


Yet you have made a harsh blanket diagnosis about your ex and this is suppose to be genius to me I suppose. Well guess what to me your the idiot. You are not considering the potential of the numerous other diagnosis she could actually have. Instead your reading off a list of criteria and mis using it. Are you a psychiatrists? Then how do you know her diagnosis? Even if you were a psychiatrist you are a to close personally to her and are therefore eliminated from making that determination about her. I know psychiatrists that have mentally ill relatives that have done far worse things than what you have mentioned about your ex. They had to refer them to a colleague as they could not diagnose someone they were close to because it would more than likely be the wrong diagnosis. By the way their relatives did far worse things than your ex and they still were not diagnosed with NPD. Just saying.



What your opinions dont take into account that sometimes people are laid back and optomistic. These people can sell you the moon. They promise everyrthing.but it takes time that actually realise they deliver nothing. When you call them on this they react in many ways like attempt suicide, wreck your career, isolate your friends and family. Play the 'if you love me' card.



Yes because a person diagnosed NPD is the only person who can do these types of things or behave this way. Your being extremely closed minded and stubborn. A list of mental disorders as think as the DSM itself are capable of doing these things.




if you are a stone cold **stard that has no compassion for others feelings then great for you and you can ignore this stuff, but because i care and consider it a mark of a man that steps up to the plate and gets stuff sorted.


Let's sort this out then. If your a Google doc that diagnoses everyone via wiki and places that diagnosis on every disordered person you run across your ignorant. Leave the diagnosis up to the professionals. If you have had a hard time with your crazy ex get in line with the rest of us your not special.




One thing an NPD has that sets them apart is not only lack of compassion and empathy, but they are actually incapable of realising that others think differently from them. When you develop an independant thought that goes against what they want you to think they go into meltdown. They will first of all try the aggressive solution, if you stand your ground they will tell you exactly what you want to hear, then suggest something thats loosely a compromise, as long as you do their thing first, then have no intention whatsoever of following through on their side of the deal.


Again NPD is not the only disorder that does this.




What they are very good at is targetting those that have a good nature, kind, generous, and selfless. People like this are optomists, they foolishly hang on waiting to see if the person they first met ever comes back. This never happens because that person was fake, cleverly designed to appear to be their victims perfection.


Not according to a lot of mental health professionals. Maybe to a degree for a very limited period of time. Not the type of LTR they seek from my understanding. Their natural instinct is to dominate. They are so self diluted that they believe they can do that and often do. So your saying your ex was wearing the pants telling you what to do like a child? A guy with a 27 year military career? Doubtful. Simply put I think she had something else.




Please dont try to attach generalisations to NPD, its so varied that even those that think someone else has NPD is an NPD trait in its own right.


Not really. We all have a level of narcissism. At a certain level it is deemed normal and healthy. At another level it gets to where it is not deemed normal and healthy. Then at another level it is deemed very unhealthy and down right destructive. Then there are those at another level that have what is known as narcissistic personality disorder. There are those that seem very narcissistic and a person could probably check off the criteria one at a time but they don't actually have the disorder.

There are situations like the OP mentioned where someone is on a controlled substance and they show major narcissistic behaviors they normally wouldn't if they weren't under the influence. In this day and age with the abuse of prescription medications one never knows if someone is under the influence or not. Heck a psychiatrists may outright diagnose an individual NPD not knowing they are under the influence of something. Really no one ever really knows for sure.


Many of these so called survivors forums are cults trying to convince everyone they survived a person who had NPD. Steadily pushing their novels and books on the subject off on the forum members. It's nothing but BS and if you stop following the crowd and open your eyes you'll see it for what it really is. I know a little bit about certain disorders due to my past. I wouldn't mislead you intentionally. All I'm asking is you consider the possibility that she has something other that this particular disorder.

NPD is the perfect disorder to convince the masses that their EX has and make a ton of money selling literature and books on. Why? Cause everyone has a certain level of narcissism and everyone is selfish to one degree or another. That's the truth of the matter. Accept it or don't. As I've stated many times on another thread as well the likely hood that a person's EX has this disorder is very remote to say the least. We differ on opinion at this point cause your so convinced your EX has NPD. Oh well. No need to respond to me. I've put my 2 cents in. Do your thing.
 ControlledFolly
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 81
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 7:15:41 PM
@1ukn4u

Thats a better post with a sound argument, i dont necessarily agree with it, but this is far too an important topic to be keyboard warriors over.

First of all the good stuff, The case that it could be attributed to other disorders is a good one and i shall look into that. So i thank you for bringing that to my attention.

As its very late i will make the rest brief, but as its the middle of the night and i am tired i probably wont do it justice so will re visit in the morning.

Your reply is full of assumptions, both about me and the circumstances NPD came into the equation.

I was blissfully unaware of this disorder until i was seeing a psychologist. I lost my mind for a while, they were exploring anxiety or PTSD. Fortunately it was the former as it transpired so of course the focus was on why? Ive seen and done some shit over the years, but im very resilient, i was used to being the go to guy for getting things done. The Vet with the expereince. So i was definitely having a self worth crisis at this point. Now The sessions with the shrink were at this point all about narrowing down the source of the anxiety.

After a while it was clear that it was my personal life not proffessional that was the cause. I got through it all, saw things for what they were and told the shrink i have to get out of that relationship. After discussing the things that happened it was the shirink that gave me a book on NPD and told me to do my own research.

It must be stressed that the shrink could not advise on this, but did say the leaving the relationship was not the wrong thing to do.

So did she get a diagnosis of NPD? nope because that would requrie that she goes and gets help (but you know this already). So thats the crux of the whole issue, it is very seldom that an NPD suffferer is capable of acknowledging something is wrong with them. Let alone allow themselves to be put through a diagnosis process. Thats why the disorder is rare. Connecting the dots leads to a bigger picture.

So the issue i have isnt with your input more the spirit is is delivered. The last thing someone trying to get away from this needs, is to be told they are mad, they are every second of every day persuading themselves that they are not going mad. What they need right now is the support to extract themselves from the situation, the micro analysing can come later.

you can use all the forum skills of selective quoting you like, but that does not take away the fact that people reading this need to know that they are not alone and that getting themselves out of this mess is not selfish as they have probably been told. As i seriously doubt a trained psychologist would rise to my bait of calling me an idiot in return you are no more a trained expert in this than i am. But you do have experience, that is clear.

So you have done your best to undermine every post based on experience by quoting someone elses opinions, with little argument of you own, so one wonders why you feel the need to do this? accused of being a narcissist perhaps?
I sense some kind of indoctrinated process behind your words, so if you wish to talk about cults then i am all ears.

To sign off, your points are valid in a text book sense, your assumptions are a little wide of the mark, but your post isnt actually relevant to this thread but does deserve discussion of its own. This thread is a survivors discussion and all you are doing is trolling it. If you dont like the tone of the thread the start a new one more relevent instead of trying to derail everything you disagree with.

Then i wont call you an idiot, and people that need to see this for what it is can do the decent thing and get themselves out of dodge, surely you can agree with that?
 soupcan00
Joined: 5/2/2009
Msg: 82
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I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 7:28:44 PM
Narcissists are the BEST ! U never run out conversation ! Just ask them about themselves and turn the ipid up 7
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 83
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/17/2012 11:16:56 PM

So did she get a diagnosis of NPD? nope because that would requrie that she goes and gets help (but you know this already). So thats the crux of the whole issue, it is very seldom that an NPD suffferer is capable of acknowledging something is wrong with them. Let alone allow themselves to be put through a diagnosis process. Thats why the disorder is rare. Connecting the dots leads to a bigger picture.


Yes sir you are correct. See heres the thing. Maybe a few psychologists out there think the general population isn't intelligent enough to tell the difference between a great white shark and a whale. I beg to differ and give all of you the benefit of a doubt. I feel you all are capable of telling the difference.


As in example on your message 239 3rd sentence.
you make a blanket statelment that only covers a fraction of the NPD spectrum.


What spectrum? There is only one kind of great white shark and there is only one kind of NPD according to the DSM. Yet many psychologists who have blanketed the diagnosis have led many to believe there are multiple types of NPD's. They do this for multiple reasons. 1. NPD's are interesting it catches your attention. Just like great white sharks are interesting and will catch your attention. 2. It makes you want to hear what they have to say. If they blanketed it and called it mentally disordered people it wouldn't sell. Just like someone blanketing shark week and calling it fish week. It's just not as catchy. 3. They justify the lie with abusive mentally disordered people are dangerous and you should basically do as they are asking you to do if that's the case.


They feel they are doing a greater justice by blanketing it. Are all sharks or fish alike that attack humans dangerous? Yes of course they are. So your getting the information either way. Should you take the same precautions with a potentially dangerous fish that you would for a great white shark? Of course you should. Just like you should take the same precautions for an abusive mentally disordered person that they suggest you take for a person diagnosed NPD.

They cover the lie and even though they suspect a different disorder or issue by deviating from the DSM to say there are multiple kinds of NPDs. Just like you watching shark week and a dolphin pops up and the announcer tells you it's a great white shark and your to ignorant to know any better and you naturally believe what your told.


I see you see a psychologist. Nothing to be ashamed of there I do as well and still see him regularly. Doesn't mean you need to see one anymore or any less than anyone else. I think we should be proud that we have the fortitude to go and see one for any reason we see fit. I would urge anyone to it's an enlighting experience and helped me tremendously.


So the issue i have isnt with your input more the spirit is is delivered. The last thing someone trying to get away from this needs, is to be told they are mad, they are every second of every day persuading themselves that they are not going mad. What they need right now is the support to extract themselves from the situation, the micro analysing can come later.


My apologies but I find a couple of things frustrating with this. First I'm tuning into shark week here and you people keep showing me dolphins. I have some real experience with these people and I've seen very few posters who I even get the impression have run across a real person that could pass for having NPD. Second it upsets me that many of these sites suggest threads like this one and their books can replace real psychological professional help.



you can use all the forum skills of selective quoting you like, but that does not take away the fact that people reading this need to know that they are not alone and that getting themselves out of this mess is not selfish as they have probably been told. As i seriously doubt a trained psychologist would rise to my bait of calling me an idiot in return you are no more a trained expert in this than i am. But you do have experience, that is clear.

So you have done your best to undermine every post based on experience by quoting someone elses opinions, with little argument of you own, so one wonders why you feel the need to do this? accused of being a narcissist perhaps?
I sense some kind of indoctrinated process behind your words, so if you wish to talk about cults then i am all ears.



I wouldn't say I have forum skills. I got your point and many others cause I pay attention to what you guys have to say. Some of it's good and some of it is BS. "but that does not take away the fact that people reading this need to know that they are not alone and that getting themselves out of this mess is not selfish as they have probably been told." Absolutely agree. Most are out of the situation and bring it up everyday on these threads. Like I posted in the other Narc thread I can pull up history of people that posted 8 years ago or longer. These same people are posting the same tired posts to this very day. I don't see how this is healthy. Also I don't see how the spreading the paranoia of an NPD at every corner is healthy either.



"accused of being a narcissist perhaps? " All the time on these threads. To be honest I was accused by 1 significant other a few years back. We made a bet. We would both go to a mental health professional of our choice. I claimed she was mentally disordered she claimed that I was. We both came back as mentally disordered. She tested as having BPD. I tested as having asphergers syndrome.

I didn't like my diagnosis as I thought it was basically saying I was mentally handicapped or retarded. So I went for a second diagnosis with a second mental health professional. Got the same exact diagnosis. So I went 200 miles out of state to a 3rd mental health professional. Got diagnosed a 3rd time as autistic. Went back to my first psychologists defeated and finally accepting the cards I was dealt.

He asked me what My issue was with the diagnosis. I told him that I felt he was saying that I was retarded. So he offered an IQ test. He didn't do them there but he had a colleague who does them. So I took the IQ test with her and payed an extra $120 to do it. I got a 148. So in order to be mentally retarded I would have to of gotton an 80 or bellow. In reality I'm considered to have superior intelligence. I view the world differently and yes I am different. If you read some of those books you have probably read they would basically say I'm some form of narcissists.

I'm not perfect by any means. I'm a good father though. I've raised my kids on my own as in my kids mom lives in another state for over 10 years. I'm a good father. I don't think I'm a bad SO. Or so I've been told I just have major issues picking out a good life partner. It is what it is. One things for sure. I have never hurt a fly and I'm by no means abusive in anyway despite the fact that I'm considered disordered. There are some with my disorder that are. Me personally I am kind of nerdy. I read a lot and study things. I have worked around people diagnosed with a variety of disorders.. I do many things for a living including some government work.

We can all figure out ways to adjust the percentages and the numbers. The fact of the matter is just like they have a real good idea of just how many great white sharks there are in the ocean. They have a real good idea of just how many diagnosed NPDs we have. So don't delude yourself in thinking those numbers aren't pretty accurate. I know they have done many sample tests on random subjects throughout the population and the percentages are rather low. 1% is being generous. very generous. I'm not invalidating anyones bad experience. I'm just simply saying it probably wasn't the disorder your blaming. Fact of the matter is a majority of your NPD population is located behind bars so to speak. The actual percentage amongst the population is very very small and very very rare. Almost nonexistant.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 84
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/18/2012 12:03:00 AM
I burned my bridges with a narcissist

I'm sorry, but this whole thread is hilarious. If one knows the true definition of a narcissist, they'd KNOW it's impossible to "burn bridges" with one. They'd (the narcissist) think you were lighting the bridge on fire so they'd not be cold going across it. Yeah, simplistic I know but anyone who's loved a narcissist knows for a fact ~ you can't burn that bridge. You just ride the bumpy ride til you've had enough and puke and get off the roller-coaster.

^^^^^^Whether diagnosed or not??? There is nothing worse for kind/loving/attentive and truly appreciative people to encounter than a REAL narcissist. Personally? Having been married to one? I'd like to categorize them in the "human vampire" part of society. Not a bad thing, but something to disclose VERY early on. Let someone know you wish to suck the life out of them. That seems fair to me. **shrugs** (See Dr. DJ Williams, Ph.d, studies on human vampires for rebuttal ~ there is a whole sub-culture of people that love to suck the life out of others and? There are indeed those who love their life sucked. To me? I only makes sense that like minds might work for those who like to suck heart/body/soul vs. replenishing that which they take.) Narcissists are a breed in and of their own selves. They need to stick with those who don't mind being depleted of energy, heart, hope, love and a slew of other things. A true narcissist??? Would find his/her equal and try to "win" ~ it's all about one's self. And? If one is allllll about his/her own self ~ self-awareness would be paramount. So? If you've been diagnosed? Move along to those who are just like you ~ suck the frickin' life out of each other with reckless abandon. Seems only logical to try to conquer that which will give you a reasonably fair fight, vs.? Those who will stare in shocked horror at your selfish/self-indulgent/self-centered and short-sighted reality. It's about the winning, so find a worthy opponent. JMO
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 85
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/18/2012 5:18:05 AM

Why assume that most of the posters here are dumb


I don't. I am going to assume that when giving the wrong information they will make the wrong determination.


reading pop psychology and labelling their selfish ex's as narcissists


Yeah. I'd say there is a lot of this going on. Wouldn't you?


There are some pretty smart people on these forums...don't underestimate them.


I'm not suggesting that they aren't smart. I'm also not suggesting that I am smart. Look I have my long list of issues. Yeah I can tell you how to get to the moon and back but my god I have issues tieing my own shoe laces. How smart is that? Here's reality. Yeah I have a high IQ. Big deal that really just means I'm good at math. Big deal that means nothing. In some ways I have the emotional intelligence of a knat. just saying



I convinced my ex bf to go to a phd psychologist with me to get closure.


Odd but not very different from my story. Also very smart approach in my opinion.


There are no 100% narcissists


Not necessarily. To get the real story you really need to look in the DSM 4. This is where you will understand what's really going on and how it really works.


For example 30% narcissist, 20% sociopath, 10% psychotic, 40% something else. So given the current form of diagnosis they aren't that rare.


No they are rare. This is more or less a diagnostic of an individual. Kind of like someone would do on a car. People are complex. The human mind will never be fully understood. We are all a product of our genetics and our environment. Basically your boyfriend possibly had a negative upbringing that has caused him to be abusive and this was her way of presenting the data to you. Just because you score %30 sociopath doesn't mean your a sociopath.

Here's the thing. A person doesn't have to be disordered in order to be abusive. Also just because your disordered doesn't mean your abusive. Although some disorders tend to naturally come with abuse. Bottom line if your in a relationship with an abusive individual you need to part ways disorder or no disorder.
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 86
view profile
History
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/19/2012 3:04:21 PM

What spectrum? There is only one kind of great white shark and there is only one kind of NPD according to the DSM. Yet many psychologists who have blanketed the diagnosis have led many to believe there are multiple types of NPD's


Based on the fact that there's more than one 'criteria' for NPD.....not all NPD's can be carbon copies of each other. From what I know, great white sharks don't have a personality. Their existence consists of reproducing, and hunting, and eating.

Humans are the highest species on the food chain.....how exactly can you compare the two?
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 87
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/20/2012 3:01:32 PM

Based on the fact that there's more than one 'criteria' for NPD.....not all NPD's can be carbon copies of each other. From what I know, great white sharks don't have a personality. Their existence consists of reproducing, and hunting, and eating.

Humans are the highest species on the food chain.....how exactly can you compare the two?


Quazi look you do a thing that people with your diagnosis do that has always gotten on my nerves. You have taken a small part of what I've said and picked it apart till it's unrecognizable. As a matter of fact I've tried to have conversations with BPDs and if we didn't agree on something during the conversation. I could see them trying to formulate a response before my sentence was even finished. In the process of this missing the entire point I was making. It's impossible to have a conversation like this. Instead of arguing my point I made they argue some insignificant piece of the sentence instead of listening and actually having an argument against the point itself.

I've asked you politely to message me to keep the needless banter back and forth down. I get you don't agree but please formulate a reasonably good response as to why.
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 88
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History
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/20/2012 6:46:09 PM

Quazi look you do a thing that people with your diagnosis do that has always gotten on my nerves. You have taken a small part of what I've said and picked it apart till it's unrecognizable. As a matter of fact I've tried to have conversations with BPDs and if we didn't agree on something during the conversation. I could see them trying to formulate a response before my sentence was even finished. In the process of this missing the entire point I was making. It's impossible to have a conversation like this. Instead of arguing my point I made they argue some insignificant piece of the sentence instead of listening and actually having an argument against the point itself.

I've asked you politely to message me to keep the needless banter back and forth down. I get you don't agree but please formulate a reasonably good response as to why.


This is from Wikipedia.....a characteristic of your disorder:


Intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, and physical clumsiness are typical of the condition, but are not required for diagnosis.[5]


I can assure you that I'm well trained in "active listening", and don't formulate a response until I've heard/read the entire content of the other person's message.

It probably won't have ever dawned on you that some of the time, you compare apples to oranges, and that your analogy doesn't make sense.

The problem with the DSM, is that it outlines specific criteria used to form a diagnosis. It doesn't account for the different combinations of criteria, which will result in differences in behaviours of NPD's. The example I use for BPD is "cutting". Several people I know "cut". I don't, and never have. That does not change my diagnosis. Saying that there is only one "type" of NPD, is a "narrow subject", straight line, entirely literal statement.

If you believe that I'm splitting hairs because I'm BPD, carry on....

If you think I'm going to message you to discuss where "I'm" going "wrong" because I'm not "really listening" to what you're saying, think again.....

I've overcome my difficulties with communication, thank you very much.
 Sussieee
Joined: 2/28/2012
Msg: 89
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/20/2012 7:14:36 PM
Sounds like both quazi and 1ukn4u are narcissists. You two should start your own private thread about how to both know everything there is to know about personality disorders.... your both crazy!!!!
 1ukn4u
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 90
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/20/2012 7:54:02 PM
This is what you quoted

What spectrum? There is only one kind of great white shark and there is only one kind of NPD according to the DSM. Yet many psychologists who have blanketed the diagnosis have led many to believe there are multiple types of NPD's


This is the paragraph in it's entirety



What spectrum? There is only one kind of great white shark and there is only one kind of NPD according to the DSM. Yet many psychologists who have blanketed the diagnosis have led many to believe there are multiple types of NPD's. They do this for multiple reasons. 1. NPD's are interesting it catches your attention. Just like great white sharks are interesting and will catch your attention. 2. It makes you want to hear what they have to say. If they blanketed it and called it mentally disordered people it wouldn't sell. Just like someone blanketing shark week and calling it fish week. It's just not as catchy. 3. They justify the lie with abusive mentally disordered people are dangerous and you should basically do as they are asking you to do if that's the case.



Here's what you posted.



Based on the fact that there's more than one 'criteria' for NPD.....not all NPD's can be carbon copies of each other. From what I know, great white sharks don't have a personality. Their existence consists of reproducing, and hunting, and eating.

Humans are the highest species on the food chain.....how exactly can you compare the two?



Do you really think I was comparing a person with NPD to a shark literally? It was obviously an analogy I used to make a point that you totally missed and now here we are here bickering needlessly on a Thread?




I can assure you that I'm well trained in "active listening", and don't formulate a response until I've heard/read the entire content of the other person's message.



Really? No when you are upset by the content of a post or you disagree with it you don't really read and understand the whole thing correctly. Just like when you were trying to say I was twisting your words and all in Msg 234. It was obvious you DIDN'T READ ALL OF WHAT WAS WRITTEN.



It probably won't have ever dawned on you that some of the time, you compare apples to oranges, and that your analogy doesn't make sense.



Then by all means everyone. Chime in and agree with her how you also didn't get the analogy of my post. If no one chimes in I think it's safe to say you might be the only one Quazi. Want to not post a couple of days and find out?



The problem with the DSM, is that it outlines specific criteria used to form a diagnosis. It doesn't account for the different combinations of criteria, which will result in differences in behaviours of NPD's. The example I use for BPD is "cutting". Several people I know "cut". I don't, and never have. That does not change my diagnosis. Saying that there is only one "type" of NPD, is a "narrow subject", straight line, entirely literal statement.



Here's the thing. The above would be a very good argument on your behalf. The bottom line is that if you are diagnosed NPD you fall in a certain category of person. Regardless of what criteria you qualified for or didn't. If your NPD your NPD. Some alcoholics hold down full time jobs their whole lives. Just because it doesn't fit what one may consider to be an alcoholic doesn't mean they are any less one. Yes we are talking about people and people vary one from another. My point was that on some of these NPD survivor forums they have listed like 5 or 6 types of NPDs. Some of those types sound like other disorders and not NPD. According to the DSM the types described don't exist. That was my point. I'm not saying their is only 1 kind of NPD and they all behave exactly the same. I'm saying they all act similar otherwise they wouldn't fit into the same category known as NPD.



If you believe that I'm splitting hairs because I'm BPD, carry on....


Yes, I do as a matter of fact.



If you think I'm going to message you to discuss where "I'm" going "wrong" because I'm not "really listening" to what you're saying, think again.....



I didn't say where your going wrong. I said if you need me to clarify things to you!! That's all these posts are about now. Me clarifying things to you. Why does this have to be done in a public thread like this? Makes us both look like a couple of morons.



I've overcome my difficulties with communication, thank you very much.


That's debatable.



Look Quazi yes. No two people are exactly alike. Most NPDs or certain disordered people are going to behave simularly though. Narcissism is to a degree a spectrum and the key part of this is that at the very top of that spectrum you have NPD.

Pathological narcissism occurs in a spectrum of severity. In its more extreme
forms, it is narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).

This is how it is worded even in wiki. So Narcissism is a spectrum until you get to the personality disorder itself. Then you are at the top of the sprectrum. So in other words once your at the top theirs really no place esle to go. So in a way NPD isn't really a spectrum disorder in and of itself. It's actually the top of a spectrum of Narcissism itself.
 Quazi 100
Joined: 3/2/2008
Msg: 91
view profile
History
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/20/2012 8:48:37 PM

Really? No when you are upset by the content of a post or you disagree with it you don't really read and understand the whole thing correctly. Just like when you were trying to say I was twisting your words and all in Msg 234. It was obvious you DIDN'T READ ALL OF WHAT WAS WRITTEN.


I'm done corresponding with you.
 jmark4
Joined: 7/3/2011
Msg: 92
I burned my bridges with a narcissist
Posted: 3/20/2012 9:21:50 PM
wow; you are asking if you made the right choice still? you were probably a 5 months off when you should have seen it.

Its not as deep as your post. peoples actions show they are.
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