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Show ALL Forums  > Sex and Dating  > Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?      Home login  
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 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 37
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?Page 6 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
****Splendere****

"There is no such thing as sexual addition. Some persons just require more sex than others and some need the variety. Unusually, to most married men, this extramarital sex does not have anything to do with the love they have for their wives and family."

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Perhaps you should read "Closer's" post concerning the Casanova Complex. I think these powerful men--and lots of ordinary ones too--fit the mold of classic Sexual Addicts. Moreover, Sexual Rehab Centers may be no more as useful as Alcohol Rehab Centers, but that doesn't mean the patients who attend either don't have legitimate problems....
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 38
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/5/2010 1:07:03 PM
****December1980****

You state so emphatically on the one hand that you don't believe in "Rehab" and that on the other hand syndromes such as "Sexual Addiction" actually exist.

Well, if Sexual Addiction actually exists, isn't one of the places an addict looks for help called a Sexual Rehabilitation center?

Moreover, since neither you nor "Splendere" are clinicians, on what basis are you rendering such opinions?

If a person has sexual encounters with at least a dozen women that we know of, doesn't that suggest--on the margins--that there might be an addiction or that perhaps there are issues involved here--besides a person's libido?
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 39
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/5/2010 2:22:33 PM
****Splendere****

"Persons can become addicted to substances, usually drugs, not behaviors. If you put a label on anything that another can profit from it happens. Alcoholism was never considered a disease (it is not, it is an addition) until most of the population was covered by medical insurance. The medical community then elevated this addition to a disease in order to gain enormous profits. Rehab centers are revolving doors; perhaps serve a purpose for those who need to dry out for a while. They’d be just as well off going to a spa."--Splendere, 2/5/2010.

I suspect "alcoholism" was termed a disease when the abuse of alcohol started turning livers green and people started kicking the bucket. And I do appreciate the fact that the basis of American society is the almighty dollar. However, legitimate diseases, illnesses, and syndromes do exist in the body--and more importantly--in the deep recesses of the human mind.

The fact that medical practitioners earn a living diagnosing and treating these maladies doesn't negative their existence. Since you've closed your mind to the possibility of sexual desire as an addiction, you seem to be suggesting that since this syndrome isn't visible as a physical injury it cannot possibly affect a person's behavior.

And I believe such an argument is highly flawed--on many levels.

Since this thread was started to discuss behavior, your opinion is certainly welcome. Indeed, you and December1980 are entitled to your opinions. It's just that as laymen (no pun intended) I find your arguments unpersuasive.
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 40
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/6/2010 8:41:50 AM
****Splendere****
"I am not in any manner attempting to persuade you to open your mind. Just giving my opinion. The fact that you do not agree with it does not matter one iota to me.
You realize that you too are merely a “layman” and your opinion is no more valid or persuasive to me than mine is to you. If there is someone here that is not a “layman” would you point him out to us? I did not read all the posts so I may have missed the psychiatrist. "--Splendere, 2/5/2010.
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Arguments are put forth to persuade opinions. The logic you have used to refute my statements is circular at best, and you make assertions as if you are a clinician. Thus, in my view, your arguments highly flawed and unpersuasive.

I am also a layman, but I have not suggested that I'm anything else. Rather, I have only referred to the interesting excerpt concerning the Casanova Complex that "Closer" added to this thread and suggested that Tiger and others seem to fit the mold of "Sex Addicts." Moreover, as the OP, I have read all posts and have responded when necessary.
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 42
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/20/2010 11:07:04 AM
Tiger said he felt "entitled" to cheat. He sounded sincere during his apology yesterday, begging for forgiveness . And he said his faith in Buddhism would enable him to make a full recovery from the temptation of extra-marital sex....

It seems to me that he's boxed himself into a corner. If Elin divorces him, Tiger is going to have to engage in monogamous relationships. He's vowed to be a model sportsman again, which means he can't be caught "whoring." Otherwise, he will be labeled a hypocrite, and he'll lose the rest of his sponsors.

Can Tiger reform his errant behavior, ladies and gentlemen?
 farscapeprincess
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 43
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/20/2010 12:19:58 PM
Fringe benefits? Like catching a potential STD from the cheating spouse?

TW had affairs with over 12 different women; Bill Clinton had at least one that we know about and well we know what Spitzer did. I think it's an individual thing as to why women stay with these men: political, money, or maybe they just "love" their cheating husbands. I don't know. Maybe they just believe in the sanctity of marriage and that even cheating shouldn't tear them apart.

They say once a cheater always cheater. I don't think no sex addict (man or woman) is going to be cured by some rehab. They have to decide that they are above the temptations that are out there and stop the behavior. They have to want to take their marriage vows seriously and to have integrity.

A friend of mine was married to a cheater for 18 years. She believed in the sanctity of marriage, they had two kids, etc. But finally she had enough of the BS and divorced him. She took her vows seriously, but he sure didn't.

ETA: If it were me, I'm not excusing or forgiving indulging his or anyone elses sexual urges with multiple partners. I'd divorce his ass. My lawyer would make sure he pays through the nose. That kind of humiliation is not worth staying. I could buy my own damn mansion...or whatever. Do you think if this was a man whose wife had ongoing affairs with multiple men over the course of that marriage that he would be forgiving? Not just the multi-millionnaires, but the average working guy.
 farscapeprincess
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 44
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/20/2010 12:35:43 PM
IPSCdude:
Can Tiger reform his errant behavior, ladies and gentlemen?


It's going to be an uphill battle. If Elin does decide to divorce him because she can't get past it, he's going to have to walk the straight and narrow to regain everyone else's trust. He's going to have to be careful about who he chooses to date, too. No hook...porn stars. I think a bigger question is would he find a nice, seemingly normal woman like Elin to date or marry given that he cheated so much in his marriage to Elin. His cheating is in the headlines and there aren't many people that don't know about it. He had this type of person in Elin, but he has almost pissed it away for waitresses and porn stars.
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 45
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/20/2010 6:20:27 PM
The guy is making a mint and she will lose out on some of that with a divorce, and she knows it!
So what if the guy wasn't getting what he wanted at home and went out and got it elsewhere? It really is nobody's business! That is between him and his wife! This whole "Tiger Woods" fiasco is total BS! If the guy was white we'd be seeing far less of this story! Why? Becasue he's a black PRO GOLFER?? Jeeze people....get a life!

National Geographic did a nice piece on polygamy in America in their February 2010 issue.
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 46
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/21/2010 2:47:42 AM
There are people here on this thread who know they will not be faithful to their partners. If that is the case, why get into a relationship where you know the person you are with expects fidelity? Why go into a relationship knowing you are going to be unfaithful and hurt your partner? If indeed Tiger knew he wanted and would have sex with other women, why did he get married in the first place? Surely he knew he would get found out one day and his wife would be badly hurt... To me that means he never gave a chit in the first place. He knew he would cheat and hurt her but got married anyway.. That is what would cause more devastation to me than anything. He knew he would hurt me, but did it anyway. In other words my feelings and pain mean nothing to him... And if how i feel means nothing to him then what is the sense in staying?

If you're not going to be faithful or don't believe in monogamy at least have the guts to tell the person you are getting involved with so they have the choice to go or stay...
 JerseyGirl2008
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 47
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/21/2010 8:14:05 AM

Has anyone ever thought that maybe Tiger Woods isn't a sex addict at all? And that maybe, instead, he's merely a horny guy, who, due to his fame and how it attracts sexy women, is simply indulging in his love of the female and sexual intercourse, with the heck to his wedding vows?

I absolutely believe that.

The term "sex addict" is bandied about far too easily to explain away plain selfish and promiscuous behavior. I know alot of married/committed guys that will take any sexual opportunity that falls in their laps simply because they're slobs and will take it - not because they have a "sexual addiciton." I think an awful lot of men are using that excuse lately when they get caught with their pants down. Not buying it.
 Friendly widow
Joined: 11/24/2009
Msg: 48
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/21/2010 8:23:45 AM
I had a friend whose husband was chronically unfaithful and this was public knowledge.When asked why she stayed with him her response was that she liked the life style his income allowed her! I finally ditched my unfaithful husband after 19 years and was so relieved not to be wondering where he was and what he would bring home!
 farscapeprincess
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 49
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/21/2010 9:55:40 AM

So are you saying you'd leave because of what you think others would think of you? That's what it sounds like to me.


You're reading far too much into what I wrote. When I wrote that post I was thinking of no one else but myself. I don't really care what others think of me if I stayed or left. The humiliation of a spouse that cheated with sooooo many women on multiple occasions is just far too much. The wreckless disregard for my health if he should give me a STD; the constant lying and sneaking around. Who cares what others think of me. It ONLY makes sense to me to leave.



Rather than base your decision on how you feel, it sounds like you're basing it on how you think others would want you to go about it.


See above.



Sort of like:

"My husband cheated on me. I'm terribly hurt by all this, but I still love him, and I know he's only human, and my friends don't know the full situation, but I don't want my friends to think I'm weak or a loser for staying -- so I better divorce his butt. That way, my friends will think highly of me."


Maybe if we were talking about an affair with one woman, I could see your point. I don't think I could say I would still loved the cheater after his cheating with multiple women. It would kill off all the love. Maybe I could one day be a friend to that person, but as a trusted husband and lover not a chance.



Maybe a better course of action would be to discuss the situation with your husband fully. Find out where both of you stand on the marriage and what each of you want out of life. Another good idea would be to discuss this with a marriage counselor to see if you two have the potential to work things out ... or not.


Again, if it was one affair, throwing away a marriage without getting some help first is rather stupid. I can't speak for all women, but I don't any woman would see the marriage as irreparable. It has to do with the number of women involved and length of time the affairs have been going on.



But to just divorce his butt is -- once again -- handling the world and situations on strictly black and white terms. And there's just too much gray area to consider.


Some instances there may be a gray area, but they are few and far between.
 farscapeprincess
Joined: 4/28/2008
Msg: 50
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/21/2010 10:12:40 AM
jerseygirl2008:
The term "sex addict" is bandied about far too easily to explain away plain selfish and promiscuous behavior. I know alot of married/committed guys that will take any sexual opportunity that falls in their laps simply because they're slobs and will take it - not because they have a "sexual addiciton." I think an awful lot of men are using that excuse lately when they get caught with their pants down. Not buying it.


I don't buy it either. Hmmm...I'm not sure when all of a sudden these celebs who get caught with their pants down and then claimed they were sex addicts started happening -- thus it seem to become in vogue to check themselves into "rehab", but one such celeb is David Duchovny. Is he really a sex addict or just a horny guy who loves females and who probably are better off not being married in the first place? I think it's the latter. There is diagnostic tool such a blood test to determine if someone is addicted to sex. It's only the word of the person who got caught. This "addiction" isn't like alcoholism or addiction to heroin or coke. The pain of withdrawal from drugs and alcohol is real which is why they need help to kick the habit. If anyone tells me that trying to kick an addiction to sex is as painful as drug addiction I will laugh in their face. Ok, maybe I won't go that far, but I do think the "rehab" thing for sex addiction has become a joke.
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 51
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/22/2010 10:39:28 AM
Candid 1:

We are so conditioned as a society in trying to excuse unexcusable behavior based on some psychobabblebullshit label which we dole out to suit ourselves. We don't like to accept or assign blame, heaven forbid they should be the cause of something, but strangely we make the victim feel guilty for picking on the miscreant and their behavior - oh they can't help themselves... We absolve the behavior by saying, there, there, you can't help it - you're a, you've got - whatever.... It's not your fault. You can't help your behavior... So what if you just killed someone, you're just misunderstood.--2/21/2010, Candid 1.

Surely you're not suggesting that addictions don't exist, are you? Why are you so certain that Mr. Woods isn't a classic Sex Addict? And, if he isn't, what characteristics qualifies a person as a Sex Addict?
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 52
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/22/2010 12:51:56 PM
Candid1:
**************************************************************************
"The biggest problem with labelling bad behavior with a free pass is it re-inforces bad behavior. We as a society excuse behavior constantly with the can't help it, they have... excuse. And that's all it is - excuses for bad behavior. We all label behavior. What's worse is the fact there seems to be a sense of entitlement in claiming labelled behavior."--Candid1 2/22/2010
**************************************************************************

The problem with your premise is that you seem to suggest that addictions--sexual or otherwise--don't exist and that society condones deviant behaviour as a knee-jerk reaction. Moreover, you argue that the alleged deviant offenders use the "addiction-card" all too conveniently as a get-out-of jail card. Why are you so certain?

I'm not persuaded by your arguments that the term "Sexual Addict" isn't valid, which leads me to ask rhetorically how do we identify legitimate "Sexual Addicts?" Are these alleged sexual deviants able to control their urges at all when women throw themselves at them or not?

Why do we refer to some women as nymphomaniacs? Does this term have no clinical basis in fact? Is this term reserved only for "working girls," or is it a "lay" term hurled at any ordinary woman who can't get enough?

Maybe men like Tiger, Bill, and former NY Gov. Eliot Spitzer are just horny guys with enough money to satisfy their urges, but I'm not prepared to assert cateorically that sexual addictions don't exist. If you have clinical evidence to support your arguments, please share same with the rest of us.
 IPSCdude
Joined: 3/25/2008
Msg: 53
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/24/2010 10:27:28 AM
Candid1:
"Define deviant. Who's to say society condones deviant behavior... Who's to say there are even ANY legitimate sex addicts... Tiger could do the exact same things to a million women and it wouldn't be an issue - if he was single or had his wife's blessing... and the only reason it's even lasted this long, besides you responding to each and every post in this thread, is because he claimed to be a sexual addict. If he just claimed to be a philanderer - we'd be over it."--2/22/2010, Candid1

Any good dictionary can provide a definition of "deviant." And the term to describe hyper-sexed males is called "Satyriasis." Perhaps Tiger, Bill, and Elliot are just horny men, but I suspect that legitimate "Sex Addicts" exist amongst us.

Earlier this week a pediatrician in Delaware was arrested for sexually abusing his patients. Although the victims were not conscenting adults, I believe this man--who took an oath to do no harm--derived sexual pleasure from molesting children. Some might say he was unable to control his urges. Some will say that he's just a sick man, turned on by the power to overpower children. But most people would agree that this physician has issues, some of which might be shared by men who are addicted to sex....

This thread was started to discuss how spouses deal with all apsects of cheating-- not to causally dismiss the offenders as philandering Satyrs.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 54
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Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/25/2010 8:16:34 AM
i really do not believe in 'sex addicts', and if there is such a thing it would be very, very rare
its an easy 'out' for people who cheat, an excuse, nothing more
i knew a couple of women that loved sex, and could not get enough, they where not sex addicts, they just really ,really loved sex, otherwise they where very good women, mothers wives
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 55
Staying with Sex Addicts--Rehab Notwithstanding?
Posted: 2/26/2010 6:58:46 PM
Sex Addicts...............please! This sounds like a trailer for the next Dr Phil program!

I believe that the term "sex addict" is a label to justify unacceptable behaviour just like people who are rude/nasty consider themselves "sarcastic". That is a big pile of steaming crap!

People cheat because they believe they will get away it, or believe that they have the right to do it.

Why do women stay...........for the money/power/lifestyle that they would not enjoy if they left the marriage. I don't think the wives the OP mentioned disrespect the sanctity of marriage, in fact I am sure they were hurt and humiliated by their husbands acts of infidelity. These women are not dumb, they view the "opportunity" as a business transaction and made their husbands "pay" dearly for their transgressions.

Personally, infidelity is a deal breaker for me, as life is too short. I would rather have less money and be happy alone than to be married to a man that did not respect me or our wedding vows. I make the man in my feel important and I believe that he should recriprocate, or the relationship does not stand a chance of survival.
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