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 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 49
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Dating someone in a 12 step programPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
Amen to that, I am very discouraged at some of the peoples responses.


Sophabella - Don't be angered or surprised that some people are not willing to bring alcoholics or addicts into their lives or welcome them with open arms. Many of us - even myself have had devastating and life altering consequences from our experiences with alcoholics and need & want to make better choices for our lives now. A 12 step program is no guarantee they won't be a dry drunk or they won't fall off the wagon. Even when an alcoholic is not drinking they cannot handle any stress - the people around them feel as though they have to tip toe around trying to be careful not to get the alcoholic upset. My feelings and my life were always secondary and it was always about the acloholic and their life. By the time a man has reached my age, if he has destroyed most of his life with drinking there is not a whole lot to work with there. Brain cells have been destroyed for years and they stop maturing emotionally at the age they started to drink. One thing I did learn in Al Anon is that I need to take care of myself first and not the alcoholic. The years I spent dating Alcoholics were very draining on me. Never again. Their problem will NEVER be my problem again.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 50
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/5/2010 8:38:26 PM
And AA is pretty much a Christian cult

depends on what part of the country you're in. you're in the bible belt, so yeah, that follows.

aa wasn't my program, but the meetings i went to where i live (southern california) were more inclusive. very little jesus/magic nonsense. which leads to this ...

can someone get sober in AA or NA if they are an Athiest?

yeah, because not every spiritual model subscribes to the Big Guy In The Sky hypothesis of western monotheism. imo, 12-step is a great place to explore entry-level spirituality free of dogma.
 DALLASDAME
Joined: 8/5/2009
Msg: 51
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/5/2010 10:18:02 PM
Can't do it.

I like to go out too much and I don't need someone freaking out everytime I get something to drink. I had a friend date this guy in recovery and man it changed everything we did as a group. He wouldn't go into a resturant is the liquor bottles were visible. It was madness! Eventually, she was just at home all the time until she realized that she was not the person with the problem.

Not that all people in recovery are this extreme but man, that did it for me.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 52
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/5/2010 10:23:12 PM
I like to go out too much and I don't need someone freaking out everytime I get something to drink. I had a friend date this guy in recovery and man it changed everything we did as a group. He wouldn't go into a resturant is the liquor bottles were visible. It was madness! Eventually, she was just at home all the time until she realized that she was not the person with the problem.

Not that all people in recovery are this extreme but man, that did it for me.



So you have a friend,not even you,who had a bad experience with one person who was too extreme so you automatically judge all people in that situation as the same!?


I know quite a few people who are recovered/recovering alcoholics and they have no problem with anyone drinking in front of them or going into restaurants where liquor is served and visible. You might want to grow up a little and judge people based on how they behave around you.
 DALLASDAME
Joined: 8/5/2009
Msg: 53
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/5/2010 11:07:33 PM
Lady Wa Wa

Go back and re read the last sentence I wrote.
Now, did I try to stop anyone else from dating someone in 12 step? Well... No I didn't . I specifically stated what would work for me.

Thanks.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 54
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/6/2010 12:27:43 AM
Yeah I read the last sentence you wrote and you still come off immature and judgmental. You are judging all recovered/recovering alcoholics based on your friends experience with one. Hopefully some day you will grow up and realize that you can't judge a whole group of people based on the actions of one who you never even dated.


Wow looked at your profile and I must say that I am shocked to see you are 31. I expected you to be 18 or 19!
 mmagnet
Joined: 10/6/2007
Msg: 55
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/6/2010 12:39:59 AM
I dated someone who is an active NA member and also a sponsor in NA. I must admit I fell deeply in love with him because he is the most 'human' person I've ever met.

Unfortunately, NA and the 5 people he sponsors as well as any other person out there in the world who are in need of 'saving' are more important that having a serious relationship for him.

It isn't easy dating anyone in a 12 step program. But of all the people I have dated in the past 14 years? Not a SINGLE regret.

I try to think of my NA guy as 'Paying It Forward' which is a positive. Just because I didn't get what I wanted doesn't make him the bad guy. Just bad timing and opposite priorities.
 Nu2010
Joined: 1/3/2010
Msg: 56
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/6/2010 10:06:49 AM
The man I am dating now is a recovering alcoholic. I was married for 16 years to an alcoholic/drug abuser/gambler/womanizer/controller and was fed up living like that. The ex is also a recovering alcoholic for about 5 years and the guy I am dating about 6 years. With my ex we are now friends and he has apologised for how he treated me in the past but that cannot replace my memories but I have learned to forgive him years ago. It takes a lot of guts to accomplish to change their lives for the better.
 DALLASDAME
Joined: 8/5/2009
Msg: 57
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/6/2010 11:24:06 AM
Lady Wa Wa

Judgemental? Well you are a hypocrite! I suggest you take a look into your forum history because not once, but twice you have 'judged' certain groups of people. Unstable much?

Go ahead and take a look.
 DALLASDAME
Joined: 8/5/2009
Msg: 58
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/6/2010 11:33:33 AM
BTW Wa Wa


I am re: to your responces on : Would you ever date a truck driver and Dating people with difficult child.


The first on you said you would not date a truckdriver because your sister got an std from one and died. Then you went onto say say that they are all bad.

On the second you stated that you would not date someone if they had difficult children.

So, where are we any different in stating and making choices that work for us personally? Chew that over.
 principles of magic
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 59
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/6/2010 11:49:09 AM
I would be cautious too about dating someone who is in the process of dealing with an addiction. They have important work to focus on and would likely have been told to avoid a new relationship for the first year of recovery. Someone who has been clean and/or sober for at least a few years, I would proceed with them as I would with anyone so a relationship would or would not develop depending on all the things we want in that relationship, quite apart from any addiction history.

But I have something much more important to say than that.

I am an alcoholic. I have not had a drink of booze since 1994. While it is true that by the time I quit, I had not been pickling my brain for too many years, still, it was fairly thoroughly soaked for five to ten and yet, my brain works well enough to satisfy the requirements of a PhD, to teach full time at a University, and to raise a child from the age of 6 to 22 and the threshold of law school. (O yes, did all that while supporting myself and my daughter, with all of $200/month in child support from her father, who couldn't handle a sober partner -- we separated 4 months after I'd quit drinking.)

I did not go to AA for very long. I couldn't find a group that felt right. But I had counseling and new friends who were well informed and themselves had experience with addiction, either their own or a loved one's. O yes, I knew from my father's detox experience that the thing to do right away was eat right, take vitamins, especially Bs, and exercise. I did these things and also drank pot after pot after pot of herbal tea. After even just three weeks of this regimen and then counseling too, I looked and felt transformed. People responded to me differently, I could talk to complete strangers and engage with them, happily. One day I heard my voice amplified over a loudspeaker and I was shocked because it sounded different -- whose was that rich, warm, confident voice anyway? Someone suggested it is too easy to fall off the wagon. Not for me. Why the hell would I get off this wagon??

To those who have posted here to say that they had terrible experiences with addicts and so would not get involved even with someone with many years of sobriety, I can sympathize. I grew up with an alcoholic father whom I remember from my childhood years as a frightening, unpredictable presence. I too do not want to live or be closely involved with someone who is an active addict.

Yet, some of my best friends partake of alcoholic beverages! I go to the bar with a bunch of friends every Friday. They have their drinks, I have have mine and we talk and laugh just like any other group of friends in a bar. There's beer in my fridge right now. Don't know how many or what kind. Don't care. No, it would not be easy to fall off the wagon. To me, it is inconceivable because it is inconceivable that I would take even a first drink. What for??

So, I ask you to rethink the conclusions you leap to on the basis of your personal experience. Rethink your assumptions about addiction: how easy it must be to sit high on a horse and declare that addiction is a sign of weakness! Really?! Whose theory is this?
Have you any personal experience or actual empirical evidence for such a righteous judgement?

It occurs to me that a refusal to deal with an addiction, a refusal to take advantage of the help that is available to you -- that would be a sign of weakness. My father is almost 80 years old, the last thirty of those sober. That is strength. O, too bad ladies, he's taken: 60 years married to my mother (and counting).

So date as you please. Be cautious, yes. But please do not continue to spread your prejudices around.
 Mr. Happy, PE
Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 60
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 10:09:19 AM
At this point in my life I will and do occasionally date recovering alcoholics although I would never marry one and have children with her because I believe alcoholism and most other addictive disorders have genetic bases and I would not want to pass on such tendencies to my children. The women AA members I have dated were women who had been sober a long time, like 20 or more years, and had not sold themselves on the street before their sobriety, so to speak. They are pillars of the community today.

Some women I know seem to be almost exclusively attracted to alcoholics, actively drinking or sober. It seems we all have chemistry for certain types and not for others and do not have much choice in the matter because we are wired that way.

I want to add that some of my closest and most dependable friends are men and women who have been sober and in the AA program for many years.
 principles of magic
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 61
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 11:50:10 AM
Mr Happy, to each their own choices and reproductive strategies. I have also heard that there can be a genetic tendency toward addiction and I do worry about the possibility that I passed that on to my daughter.

On the other hand, you point out that you know some people who have many years of sobriety behind them, and some who are pillars of the community. Presumably, some of the discipline, brains, talent that made them pillars of the community would also possibly be passed on to their children.

Shoot, but then there are those massive egos that the poster above you has kindly identified as the cause of alcohol addiction. Is the size of one's ego inherited?
 principles of magic
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 62
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 12:34:13 PM
Filmmakermike,

I am very very sorry for the death of your girlfriend. Her life was stolen and I hope her killer was found guilty of murder. I'm sure I cannot come close to imagining how this feels.

But you evidence does not establish that alcoholism has no genetic basis.


"Alcoholism is a complex disease with multiple causes," noted Choi.


Personality traits, inherited and environmental are part of this complexity (and the ones discussed here are said to increase the tendency for alcohol dependence, not cause it). Many scientists seem convinced that they will identify the exact genetic factors involved-- including those that cause some of us to metabolize alcohol differently than others.

What is also clear, however, is that we all still have choice. So a genetically determined tendency does not excuse alcoholism, nor does it excuse any criminal act committed by someone who is drunk.
 beehearnow
Joined: 9/28/2007
Msg: 63
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 12:34:56 PM
off topic - Filmmakermike, I am very, very sorry for your tragic loss.

This man was stupid and arrogant. But probably not in a 12-step program yet, since he apparently didn't think he qualified for one. And maybe he wasn't a alcoholic, maybe drinking and driving wasn't something he did all the time. But it's still a waste, and I hope he is now suffering and others are learning from the tragic results of his decision to get behind the wheel after drinking.

A lot of people who drink and drive are totally disillusional about the very real dangers they and other impaired drivers pose to everyone else on the road, even to the point of stating that legal limit laws and license restrictions are unfair because they punish people before they've committed an actual crime (injuring/killing someone while drinking and driving).

This is, of course, complete and total bullsh!t. I think the impaired driving laws should be much stricter than they already are. But it's a different thread.
 Thorb
Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 64
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 7:49:18 PM
there is what is called an addictive personality
it will become addicted to something and needs constant work to keep from being addicted to the bad things ... like alchol , drugs , theft , murder.
it may get addicted to chocolate , sugar , coffee , sex ... smoking , whatever ... so it needs to choose less harmful things to satisfy its addiction needs.

as for the 12 step programs ... part of them is not to date
for addicts to break an addiction they need to be totally into themselves until its broken. recommended to not date during and for about a year after.

good luck
 Green Eyed Swede
Joined: 1/22/2010
Msg: 65
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:06:16 PM
Myrgth - You may not want to be so quick to say you don't date addicts because you may have and didn't even know it. People with addiction issues, or "addicts" as you called them, are not all smelly, psychotic freaks you can tell a mile away. Yo'd be surprised. VERY surprised.
 Green Eyed Swede
Joined: 1/22/2010
Msg: 66
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:10:31 PM
AMEN, Sister! You NAILED her there. Don't you just love it when life works like this? People are SO quick to be condescending and holier-than-thou just to hear themselves talk, but when you an actually point to solid proof that they are JUST as hypocritical and judgmental as the people they are trying to chastise...well, it doesn't get any better than that! good for you, girl!!
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 67
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 9:04:22 PM
I am re: to your responces on : Would you ever date a truck driver and Dating people with difficult child.


The first on you said you would not date a truckdriver because your sister got an std from one and died. Then you went onto say say that they are all bad.

On the second you stated that you would not date someone if they had difficult children.

So, where are we any different in stating and making choices that work for us personally? Chew that over.



Lol nice attempt but you have failed miserably. There is a world of difference between dating someone who has gotten help for their past problems and dating someone whose problems are front and center in their lives, for example problem children who will and do make your life a living hell. That is a problem that is not in the past and not taken care of.


I said it before and I will say it again. Grow up and judge people based on how they behave with you now, not on their past problems.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 68
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 9:13:32 PM

No way!!! Once an alcoholic ALWAYS an alcoholic.

And your point is? There are thousands of people walking around that are alcoholics and it is not like all of them or even most of them get up every day and NOT drinking is the focus of their lives. It is just what they are it doesn't have to be who they are.

My father was an alcoholic. Thought he could handle drinking after being sober for nearly a decade so he celebrated when my middle brother was born. Found that nope, he got so pissed they put him to bed. He didn't take a drink after that for the 38 years he continued to live. He never did the 12-step thing and his addiction was never an issue. I wouldn't have known about it if my parents hadn't told me.

With the cult thing? Well, as mentioned some 12-step programs are more churchy than others and people also have levels of addiction. There is the person in the 12-step program because they are court-ordered to be there, repeat DUI offenders, etc., with the wreckage of their lives visible in their wake. There are also the people who would be more likely labeled functional alcoholics or problem drinkers that are not at a place wherein the alcohol addiction was a source of destruction.

Someone in a "12-step-program" may or may not actively attend meetings. If someone recovers to the point that the urge to drink isn't particularly strong I don't believe that they have to keep going nor is there any prescribed number of meetings someone must attend if they have been sober for years and it is more a maintenance sort of thing.

Some people really need to work the program with a capital W, others not. My sister-in-law's father was an alcoholic and when retirement came, if he wanted to move where they had vacationed (which was the plan) he was either going to AA and wouldn't drink or she was divorcing him after like 30 years. He chose the AA, only problem was that he supposedly couldn't manage to keep it together if he went more than a week to maybe 14 days without going to a meeting. But he couldn't just go to a meeting, he had to go to "his" meeting. Made it very difficult living like 800 miles away from two of their kids.


I had a friend date this guy in recovery and man it changed everything we did as a group. He wouldn't go into a resturant is the liquor bottles were visible. It was madness! Eventually, she was just at home all the time until she realized that she was not the person with the problem.

And I have known many alcoholics that stayed sober for decades and chose to hang in bars. Seemed a bit daft to me but not everyone that is dealing with an alcohol issue has problems being around other people that are drinking.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 69
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Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/7/2010 9:18:07 PM
As for your question OP, sober AT LEAST a year, and see how they are working the program. If someone has been sober long enough outside letting you know about it, you would have no clue they had an issue at all. Others, run as fast as you can. You just have to use some common sense about the behaviors you do or don't see.
 Splendere
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 70
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/8/2010 12:01:39 AM

If a person gets drunk, or has ever gotten drunk, then they are an alcoholic.


I think a lot of persons, in their youth, have drank to the point of drunkenness.

There are many well-functioning adults who drink two or three alcoholic drinks a night on a regular basis. Are these persons, in your opinion, alcoholics?

The problem with AA, according to some, is that according to their criteria for deeming someone alcoholic is that anyone who drinks is an alcoholic.


So what are your thought on dating someone who's in AA or NA or some sort of 12-step recovery program?

Without a doubt it would totally depend on the person that he is. This is one facet of his persona; if his other qualities are to my liking I would not see this as detrimental in the least.
 CJ8Rock
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 71
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/8/2010 1:37:55 AM
pjames



addiction is a sign of weakness



Thinking you do not have any weaknesses in yourself - is a sign of immaturity. We all have weaknesses bub - and once you get done being a young inexperienced pup, you will figure that one out yourself. So might want to remove yourself from the high and mighty bandwagon about now.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 72
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/8/2010 5:46:50 AM

you're in the bible belt, so yeah, that follows.
Hollywood, California mand Key West Florida, the places i have lived, are bible belt? Really?
 Axxxxel
Joined: 10/24/2009
Msg: 73
Dating someone in a 12 step program
Posted: 2/8/2010 7:59:33 AM
Wow! Some bitter people here.
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