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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Everything happens for a reason?      Home login  
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 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 26
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Everything happens for a reason?Page 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
OK, synonymly speaking, I presume.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 27
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 1:04:27 AM
@ are
In terms of synonyms, these are the ones I see (which might help clear up some of the confusion about an atheist talking about God & spirituality so much):

God = all that exists = universe/multiverse
(Seen this way, God clearly exists if we concede that anything does. In Fact God is ALL that exists and we are a part of Him)
Also, we can now see God not as the creator being outside of things, but as the Creator of Himself, i.e. not the "First Cause" but BOTH Cause AND Effect.
Is God sentient? It would seem logical, as we are sentient and we are a part of God, so in at least one way (and quite probably others) God is Sentient.
If we are in fact sentient manifestations of God, we must also (logically) be a Hand of God, so whatever we do is in a very real sense the Will of God. Whether or not God is good or evil depends on us. Whether or not God will save us depends on us.

It was the churches that taught us we are filthy errant children who must be controlled and disciplined or we'll be beyond salvation. What do we have to be saved from?...Ourselves. Whose gonna save us?...we are! After all if we can create the universe in which we live, I'm damn sure we're capable of growing up and acting like the God we all are inside. Maybe all that's needed is to stop looking up and start looking in to find the will to grow up and get our hands a little dirty saving ourselves. I for one am not gonna let a bunch of dead priests who only wanted to control us tell me we aren't capable...I know damn well that we are. All we have to do is stop believing the old priests & their scribes.

Every one of us, theist and atheist alike is a lot more spiritual (and orders of magnitude more powerful) than we think.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 28
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:20:07 AM
JustDukky, I can see what you mean and believe. In order to get on board and agree 100% with that, one needs to make a leap of faith and simply believe that. And of course as everyone can tell by now, I personally am way too much of a realist to make that leap of faith.

To use your example (with MY thoughts):

God = God is whoever it is you want God to be = universe/multiverse = is all that what science has discovered thus far.

SmilingSalmon, I do find it quite liberating to remove myself from myself since I find it so liberating and allows me to think and question all that I want with no preconceived notion of what is “right and true”. I still respect and hold dear to my heart many of the teachings from the Bible and others that I do not, i.e. only men can be priests.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 29
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:22:17 AM
Spirituality requires belief of the same type as that required for god.

Spirituality, like God requires an agreed upon definition before any proof (if any exists) can be found or reasoned.
Like God, the personal definitions of spirituality are all over the place.
What is your definition of spirituality?

In my own case, I consider that all "matter" is entangled (in the QM sense) with all other matter in far more ways than we currently suspect. By my definition of spirituality as an awareness of interconnectedness (by entanglement, which is more like a oneness than a connection of discrete objects), even the "awareness" of another electron's spin state is a form of spirituality. It is my sincere belief that the mere existence of sentience in the universe makes the universe itself in at least one way, sentient (there are probably many others), so it is no much of a leap of faith for me to see a spiritual connection with the world around me, How much greater must the connection be between sentient beings?

I really believe we all have a spiritual connection to one another, whether or not we choose to believe it.
I really do believe we are all "one", not just with each other, but with everything that exists.
I really am coming to believe that the end of the search for ever more "elementary" particles or "stuff" will end with the stuff of which the entirety of existence is made. Some might call it energy, a wavefunction, maybe simply "existence"...Myself, I choose to call it "Love", if only to reveal the very profound Truth that "God is Love."
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 30
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 8:33:03 AM
@ monalee

I have never seen the words soul group or mother earth in Scripture so these doctrines are from another source..

Maybe they are in a different scripture? Why believe any Scripture at all? Can't you figure out for yourself what makes the world go 'round?
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 31
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 9:00:13 AM
JustDukky, my definition of spirituality is simply the acceptance of something that is bigger than you. What ever that is, you may not believe it or put faith in it but, it could be there and others can choose to believe in it!

monalee1, I utterly respect your fundamental belief in what you explained. For me in my very simple way of seeing the world and life, of the car breaks down, I just call CAA. In life, if the car breaks down, I call upon my feelings and sense of what is right for me since, I am the god in MY life since I get to control myself in it. And since I am real, factual, and do not need a leap of faith to believe that I am real, I am the god in my life; as are you in yours!
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 32
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 9:03:57 AM

hi... when the car breaks down those connected to God use the situation to call on All of Gods Promises... in other words, when you need God the most a faithful person does not hesitate to call on God ... God strenghtens that persons faith by Responding... these are the examples of ~proof~ that happen when a person truly connects to God and Christ.. these examples are missing for those who choose not to seek God, it is not a mystery why these people suggest that there is no God...


So God made the car break down to strengthen faith? What a petty deity you worship.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 33
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 10:26:34 AM
@ monalee

I figured out a long time ago that the world goes round by Gods Power so I am going to study what He Says on every matter..

Have you studied other Scripture aside from the bible? How do you know Scripture is the work of God and not Man? How do you know there is any difference between God and Man?
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 34
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 11:07:02 AM
JustDukky,

“How do you know there is any difference between God and Man”? With how I think (as all can understand by now), they are both the same thing. Since man kind has written what God had said many years ago, then re-written it in various books, then translated it in various languages, then taught to priests and then to us, I think that the actual words that were said the very first day are long gone and it is the thought and intention as they have been understood that have been passed down.

So in the end, men have written the bible with the influence of what may have been said eons ago.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 35
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 12:59:02 PM
Quiet john, I don't get it.
When you say 'so that', or 'so the', it's like , who orchestrated that?
Really, I would think the dinosaurs dieing out and nature etc, is all because of sh[t happens, no?
What did I miss, in an atheists outlook?
Or are you pulling our legs?
These are honest questions, by the way.
And I thought no one had a right to exist, we just do.

A meteor hit the earth so the dinosaurs would die out, mammals could thrive and eventually create human beings.

We die so that nature can try out different variants of human beings which come up with different ideas. And it creates jobs for undertakers.

We get diseases because bacteria have a right to exist too.
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 36
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 4:04:13 PM

So in SmilingSalmon's world it's okay to cause suffering to others without needing to worry about an eventual payback? I'm sorry, but after inflicting a lot of cruelty on others I doubt very much that "instant manifestation" will let me win the lottery, or strike gold while digging in the garden as a reward.


LOL, Garry the lottery is not controlled by God? Why does God care, he doesn't reward those who TRULY deserve and or need money and have been good little monkeys, while those who are total turds of society don't win the lottery, because God knows who's been naughty and nice...

Yes there is universal law, however it is as predictable as weather... I have seen people who were NOT NICE people win money, and think dang, I sure could have used that.. NOT... I don't play the lottery, so I know why I never win...

Bad people strike it rich, just as good people do, there is no way to tell who is deserving and who isn't, thus there is to some a God influenced sense of things, OR this lottery thing is just another roll of the numbers...

It is what these people DO to clean up their lives... I have known people getting very large inheretances, and having it snorted up their noses in a matter of months... Their relative knew these people were drug abusers, yet they still had HOPE that what they left that person would give the druggie a leg up...

Learning how to NOT focus on what isn't, or didnt' happen good, or what seemed like a misfortune can go a long way, God will, or not...

IE: I never did drugs, drank, ran around like a wild hare, yet I am now so sick that I was in serious need of hospitalization last night... Med training and a bottle of meds I didn't use before (ohhhh the did this happen for a reason?) drained the massive fluid off my lungs and body... I have to use a cane, because ten yrs ago a Dr made a massive surgical mistake, now the scar tissue is strangling my spinal cord, and trach...

What in the hell did I do to deserve this? I forgave horrific abusive parents, never intentional hurt anyone, give when ever I can... WHY am I having to suffer constant pain for 20 yrs now, and NOW battling for my life???

Don't let this sound like a pity party, because as for most I seek the reason, and to draw comfort I think OK, I guess I have to really see what living as a handicap person lives.... I was never cruel to any handicap person, in fact was the kid everybody teased when I was a kid...

So why do I have to learn that?

Is it because I have no choice but to learn how to meditate?

I admit I am NOT taking this handicap thing well, and find myself picking myself up, or my poor sweet husband more times than not, because I refuse to be handicap, and have legs that stop working...

My sweet husband had told me that perhaps it has nothing to do with me in the scheme of spirituality, that instead I am to be the vehicle in which many who have never had such issues learn compassion...

We went to the movies, and after the movie as I struggled with my filling chest to breath, and my leg that wouldn't walk, I had to hit the little girls room... My poor husband was baffled as to how I was to manage on my own, knowing I would fall...

A sweet little old lady said do you need help, and said she's had days like this, but I look like I have them every day... Did my stuff and she waited to help me out to my husband...

WOW... Kindness after some lady stepped on my foot tripped on my cane, and glared at me for HER troubles...

As hard as I try to gain control over this THING, it doesn't seem to be up to me... In fact the Neurologist I had such hopes in, disappeared a week after I seen him... WTH???

Was he the wrong one? Am I to die, and that is just it?

Idk, but what I do know that as long as humans can seek a silver lining instead of having a pity party all the time, life will seem golden, no matter how dire it may seem...

Peace...

Garry msg 67, I have to agree paper is paper, whether it is smut, or a bible...

Because my brain is shit, I can't remember who spoke about in the old testament that GOD being man... Yeah no Great Divine I think of would act like that in the old testament... Call it beings from another planet, or at some point we learned how to travel to the past, and just don't know it yet... That was NOT a Divine, after all what purpose does a great Divine need the best animals killed for the heck of it, Gold, a special tent, shows lights at night for 40 yrs, and says hey its ok to kill cause I said so... BUT gave the ten commandments that said, thou shall not kill...

I have also noticed for those who are athiest, they say they need proof, and yet are ok with the thought that a big bang created this huge mess, and left one tiny speck of a planet to multiply from monster dinosaurs, to humans who are so destructive, that they have no qualms in killing over stones, or metal...

I'd say the dinosaurs were doing pretty good in their life span, heck they have been SUPPOSEDLY in existence far longer then we ever have... YET they do find human prints and objects from 2 plus million years back, and discs that talk about people from the stars...

As for the car that broke down before a wedding, was the writer hinting God didn't think the marriage was a good Idea so God made the car break down to stop the wedding???

Yeah, free will again??? After all have to have jobs for all those attorneys when you make the big mistake...
 nexthyme
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 37
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 7:15:34 PM
Thank you all, and I don't want a pity party...

Thanks John... I have saved a few lives as an X ray tech, held the hands and walked to the threshold I could not cross with others...

I have made differences in this life yes...

My hope is that this is temporary, and I can find my physical health again...But if I don't, never cry for me, because I know at my age I lived more life than a lot of people... I have gave sage thought to many, and pissed off others, meh it is about balance at times yes?

My one thing I think is that I will donate my souls broken down housing so that science can perhaps figure out what they don't know today... THAT IS if it is my time.

In the big picture I have learned to forgive the wrong of bad parents, the wrong of a butcher Dr, and not black mail him into money, but rather retreated with grace, knowing the law was on his side, fair or not...

My husband says I am teach people compassion, empathy and patience, that is if they want to learn... LOL, not exactly what I wanted, but in the mean time I go within, and see exactly what the human spirit is capable of even in a "Condemned house" LOL...

I have not stopped knowing love, and seeking beauty, even if it is me having to watch the antics of a spider on the ceiling, hoping it doesn't decide to do a fast fall on me... Ok on the ceiling, but falling on me, not so good...

I have always stopped to smell the flowers, so I guess now I am reduced to finding beauty and interest in even icky things...

I don't know if my life has been unfair, because perhaps generations back the unknown chemicals my Grandfather worked with, the toxins from Hanford, became part of DNA, which now I get their effects...

As far as my parents, oh boy, well if there isn't karma then they nearly got away with murder, and are miserable old people taking out their hate on each other...

I have seen my ex find what he thought was true love, but then lost, that is some instant Karma, and in my heart I feel bad for him... LOL, thought karma was supposed to feel good?

For him he didn't change, that is the reason...

Thanks again, and NO WORRIES... It sucks, but there are many others who would still trade their life for mine... Makes things not seem so bad...
 pencildot
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 38
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 7:23:41 PM
I do not believe everything happens for a reason but I would say everything happens because of a reason. These philosophical words are only to console people. and also nothing in life is a learning experience, but everything that happens in life is a part of growing old and thats all.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 39
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 7:39:32 PM
Thanks so much once again for all your inout!

pencildot, I think you and I see things similarly on certain things but I would be more precise in what you said…

I do think things happen for a reason because of cause and effect so, things will happen because something else cause it to happen. But, regardless of it happening, it is what it is.

Things in life can be learning experiences if you choose to see them as such. Everything that happens in life is indeed part of growing older and you can choose to see as just that or, you can look at what’s happened and ask yourself if there is something there that you can learn.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 40
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 9:26:25 PM

Things in life can be learning experiences if you choose to see them as such.

ALL things in life ARE learning experiences. The choice is whether or not we learn from them.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 41
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/7/2010 10:25:22 PM
That's a good write funcuz.

To believe that everything happens for a reason doesn't make any sense to a thinking realistic person whether they believe in a creator or not.

OK, it all depends what you mean by reason.

Like quiet john said, one thing happens, and then because of that, another thing happens.

Maybe I'm wrong again, but by reason, I think the OP would mean, super natural.
Well to believe that some one gets a shitty debilitating disease for some deities wish is just plain silly.

And by the way, God can't be involved in our worldly day to day affairs at the moment, or he ain't doing a very good job, being the creator of the universe and everything.

I mentioned it before that in the bible it talks about unforeseen circumstances. [sh[t happens]

Hey, it's not a very nice world right now.

Yeah, some SEEM to just float through life and then die.
Others, one pile of crape after another.
You can't take it personal, or you will go nuts.

By the way guys, don't wait for others to prove anything of importance, do it on your own.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 42
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/8/2010 8:08:05 AM
We are in control of our own destiny by the paths we choose to take in life.
Things don't just happen.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 43
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/8/2010 3:25:23 PM
“Everything happens for a reason” is a concept that causes people all kinds of pain in a health care setting.
Like the OP says, things don't happen for a reason, they just happen.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 44
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Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/14/2010 11:16:05 AM
hi mona, and everyone.

has anybody heard this one.

god appreciates hot or cold, like we sometimes do with certain foods or drinks.

some things don't taste the best at the lukewarm level, some almost to the point of being disgusting.

god said he would spit us out if we are lukewarm, so, if hitler in his heart, sincerely thought he was doing the right thing, I think he has a chance.

I think paul used to be a total bad boy. [saul, if I am not mistaken]
you can google anything yourself.
 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 45
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/22/2010 12:11:40 AM
yep, it will be 5771

this is giving me a headache with the bible stuff.
the bible is interpreted different ways.
to correctly interpret it,...one must use the original language.
which btw is not King James English or even close.

having faith in G-d however one sees G-d is always good. He loves us all.
why do these things happen? does G-d want them? or just allow them?
can we ever know?
i think we will not be able to know in this life time.
how can He be all good when innocents die and suffer?
i choose (choose) to believe He is good. and i just do not understand the rest.


what about those who do not believe that we have to accept Jesus?
what if i believe in Jesus but not that He is G-d or the son of G-d.
Jesus was a Jew.
paul changed the religion and made a new one.
albeit i say it is a great religion and it has helped so many people with life and to get closer to G-d
but every person has a soul and each persons soul has a certain path to take to get closer to G-d/
it is the SAME G-d. no matter what name we give to Him or Her or It.


i heard something once:
(some here have probably heard it)
that life is a tapestry of sorts.
we can see only one side of it.
later...when we pass from this earthly life into the next (whatever that may be)
then we will see the other side of the tapestry and understand why (why things happen as they do)

and please...i do not mean to disrespect anyones beliefs or offend anyone by saying
G-d can be Him Her or It.
i do not call call G-d either of those words because i believe that G-d cannot be defined or put into a box.
and religion puts G-d into a box. which is ok because it helps people relate to and believe in "Him"
no matter what G-d does exist.
 thecdcisreal
Joined: 6/18/2008
Msg: 46
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/22/2010 9:07:44 AM
Admittedly, I have not read all four pages, however I think we are missing one key point to resolve this issue.

Once we define reason we realize there is no reason and every reason for an event to happen. No reason because reason is made up. We "reason" the existence of a reason. Because we reason the existence of reason, the reason can be anything that we reason it to be. And thus a reason is everything and nothing at once. It's all about perspective.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 47
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/22/2010 2:47:48 PM
I love reading all the comments that are posted!

I can see and understand the comments made in reference to God but again, I simply choose to live my life in the reality and concrete facts and not in the reality of believing the reported past because many people believe it. I've come to see more and more as I grew up that when I'm told something, I like to kow that what I'm told is actually real, precise and factual and the whole idea of God fall no where near that circle since it revolves around books and what's taught and spread around.

I have had numerous conversations with religious followers (priests, nuns etc...) and our conversation always end up in the same place... “If you want to put your faith in what's been studied and documented, you can”. So of course with MY way of thinking, I choose not to and believe only in what is factual.

Hence why to me it is so simple why things happen... they do simply because they did; end of story! The moment you want to look beyond that and understand “why did that happen?”, that's where you enter a whole new dimension of YOUR beliefs.

So as much as I respect all the posted comments that incorporate God in the mix, “I” still just don't believe it but of course, others might. So more power to them!
 ryanrucker
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 48
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/22/2010 8:09:57 PM
so if there is no reason to reason.... is there a cause for effect or is that just a ''made up'' term we have created for identification and communication purposes.?
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 49
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/28/2010 10:46:13 AM
Appreciative9809, that is what I mean, I make a huge difference between what is factual and what people think to be factual.

If on the news it talks about Blacks robbing a store and shot someone, what would be the fact here?

That Blacks robbed and shot someone or that Blacks in general are a social stain on the fabric of society?

One may be tempted to think ill of Blacks but the fact here is that THOSE Black robbed and shot someone, PERIOD. Being part Black myself, I know how are often seen and judged and to me, that just makes me even more aware of how limiting we as a society tend to view things.

Melodic Euphoria, I could not agree with you more!!!!

I know that people who believe in God will believe that God is somehow behind all of it and is a part of his plan but for me, show me the proof and NOT what should be seen as the proof, i.e. a sunrise, sun set, life etc…
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 50
Everything happens for a reason?
Posted: 2/28/2010 11:17:00 AM
It's about having faith, about believing in something greater than yourself, it's about living hope and dreaming... Like world peace for example~ Some dreams do come true, does failure stop man from striving to be more, or understanding the world around them? I don't go shoving my personal beliefs on anyone, but they are mine to have. I still believe we create our own destiny by our personal choices. We decide the roads to travel.
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