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Asking for a woman's hand in marriagePage 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Guys, have you or would you discuss your marriage intentions with the parents before the daughter?

a great idea. there may be some kind of promotion or incentive that wasn't advertised. like they'll throw in some rims or something.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 10
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/11/2010 11:37:44 AM
Tradition aside, there's usually a super special bond between a father and his daughter(s). To many girls their dad is close to being god. And to Dad their daughter is a princess. So, I do not see anything wrong on that basis. With that said, if it was me, I would first ask of course the girl I want to marry first, then I would ask her how does she feel about that tradition. Also how her own mother feels about that tradition. When I got engaged to my ex, she had two teen boys. I went and asked them. They were extremely flattered.
 yourstillhere
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 11
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/11/2010 1:19:39 PM
We traditionally ask dad because we know he`s traditionally the one paying for the wedding.
And if we`re on good terms with dad, he`ll buy the good booze, food, and music.


what would you do if the parents wouldn't grant their permission or blessing?


Looks like we`re running away in the dark of night together, baby.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 12
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/11/2010 1:41:44 PM
My first husband did, but then I was underage so there was a reason to ask, my parents had to sign for me to get married. And no I wasn't pregnant, just stupid.

I think unless your parents are paying for the wedding, that's it's a silly tradition and makes women look like property instead of a participating half of a relationship.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 13
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/11/2010 1:47:30 PM
Judging by the wildly opposing opinions, it does seem like the sort of thing that should be felt out by a man. Or, in my case, if I were heading toward marriage I'd have to make my displeasure with this practice clear.

And while many have said it's a nice gesture of respect, I don't think anybody has yet to answer my questions about what they would do if the father refused to grant his permission/blessings. Does the respect start with the question but not extend to the response? Or does the respect not extend to the woman the guy wants to marry in favor of her father's wishes? I just see it as an empty gesture if the guy's going to do what he wants to do no matter what.

And to the person who asked about the specifics from The Bachelor, when it's down to four girls he pays a visit to each of their homes. Even though he hasn't made his final choice yet, it's the only opportunity he'll have to meet the parents. If asking several girls' parents if he can marry their daughters isn't creepy enough, when it gets down to the final two he'll share overnight dates with them, which means he could be proposing to one woman after spending the previous evening professing his interest in another. Ick.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 14
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/11/2010 3:37:59 PM

I just see it as an empty gesture if the guy's going to do what he wants to do no matter what.

well sure. the symbolism is the only value left in it in western societies. but judging by the responses about respect for the parents, and fiancees liking the thought, that symbolism is worth a lot to some people.
 jezebellpgh
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 15
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/12/2010 4:07:11 AM
This tradition is okay if you are 25 and under and have been under your parents care basically your whole life. I'm 45 in a month and my dad is dead and my mom would find it silly, I've been an adult on my own for 27 yrs WTF.
 yourstillhere
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 16
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/12/2010 1:04:43 PM
I don't think anybody has yet to answer my questions about what they would do if the father refused to grant his permission/blessings.


my response answered that question straight to the point, we`d just sneak away together.

while we`re at it i can tell you about the men asking dad and not mom:
for the most part moms will go along with pretty much anything "oh you`re in love and getting married, oh thats so wonderfull!!!"

if you want something ask mom.

while dad on the other hand has his eyes wide open and wont let his baby girl marry any old gorrilla that she happens to drag home.

any man who is a father to a daughter knows what i`m talking about there.......
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 17
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/13/2010 12:37:55 PM

The whole thing goes back to when girls were the property of their fathers, basically to be sold to the highest bidder, no different than their cattle or land.

Actually, the woman brought the money with her, so while she may have been matched up with the most capable of supporting her, the dowry went to the male and was designed to help her set up her new home, as was a dower which was given directly by the bride to the groom.

Unless the culture was one that observed bride price instead of dowries. Even with a bride price, it was to compensate the bride's family for what she would no longer be capable of doing for or bringing into their household, so it was not like she was this sexual prize given to the highest bidder but the one that saw the most value in her by wanting to give more than any other potential suitors.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 18
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/13/2010 3:29:22 PM

Once again, women pick and choose the traditions they like and foist upon us expectations for the ones that benefit them.

Actually I think this is more two groups of women. Those who are independent and want to speak for themselves, pay their own way, do their own thing, etc. and those who aren't independent or are but not by choice and would appreciate the tradition of it.

I don't think it's all one big cut and dry group here.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 19
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/13/2010 5:38:19 PM

Once again, women pick and choose the traditions they like and foist upon us expectations for the ones that benefit them.


What's wrong with picking and choosing between traditions that were established decades or centuries ago? Nobody ever said it has to be an all or nothing sort of thing. As you can see from this thread, women have very different opinions about what's right for THEM. So the key is to realize you can't treat all women or all situations as if they're exactly the same.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 20
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/14/2010 2:11:51 AM
^^^I got what his point was but as I said, not every situation is exactly the same. The fact that I don't want a man to ask for my dad's permission to marry me has absolutely nothing to do with whether I'd let a guy treat me to dinner. An independent woman can be treated to dinner the same way an independent man can.

That's why I said it shouldn't be an all or nothing sort of thing when it comes to traditions or chivalry-- there's nothing wrong with women or men participating in just the ones they prefer. Just because I don't want a guy to stand up when I approach the table doesn't mean I don't want him to hold the door open for me. Unless a person has strong feelings for or against a particular practice, ideally they should aim to do whatever makes their SO happy.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 21
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/14/2010 10:07:37 AM

there's nothing wrong with women or men participating in just the ones they prefer.

Sure there is.

Virtually all traditions involve both benefits and obligations, in roughly equal amounts. It's not like a cafeteria where you can simply say you want only the benefits and none of the obligations, all the good and none of the bad.

Well, you can, but when everyone wants something for nothing the whole system collapses rather quickly.

The whole Bachelor thing is, of course, silly. The tradition of a man having to ask the father for permission to marry his daughter was based on the two being well enough acquainted for the father to be able to assess the man's character, whether he was capable of taking on the responsibilities involved in marrying her, etc. Now we leave all that to the woman -- because that works so much better.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 22
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/15/2010 1:49:29 AM

THIS is the behaviour that bugs a lot of guys, women picking and chosing all the traditions that work in their favour but dumping the ones they don't find appealing.


Again, it's this "all or nothing" mentality that seems to be shared by the confirmed bachelors and the militant feminists. You look at the people who have been successfully married for many years and they get it: women and men are equals but not the same. We're entirely different creatures.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that there's a correlation between a man paying for dinner and a man asking her father's permission to marry her. There isn't. If a man pays for everything then that's an arrangement that works for that particular couple for whatever reason. But it doesn't mean he owns her and she's relinquished her independence. If your role around the house is the big strong guy, do you relinquish your strength if the woman ever lifts a finger? No. If a guy stays home to take care of the kids, does he have to turn in his man card on all issues? No. Different traditions work for different people.


In this particular case its not a giant slap/insult to anyone, the asking of the parents.


That's where you need to pay better attention: to ME, it is an insult to ask someone else for permission over my actions. To the woman you ask to marry it may be an insult. Or it may be something she expects. And I think this is the sort of thing that lands well-intentioned guys in trouble. They do what they think they're supposed to do or whatever their buddy did instead of finding out what's right for their woman in that particular situation.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 23
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/15/2010 5:52:10 PM
Well, my dad's a long time dead, so if my sweetie were ever this foolish I guess he'd have to ask the dog.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 24
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/15/2010 10:57:37 PM

but what you fail to understand is that not only is this a sign of respect TO and FOR the parents of the woman.


And what you seem to be missing is that for someone like me who has been out of my parents' house and on my own for 20 years, nobody has the authority over me to grant their permission for anything I do. How many situations in life would you ever ask for one adult's permission over the actions of another adult? In fact, if a guy were to ask my dad for his permission my dad's response would probably be, "Oh, you'll have to ask her. That's totally her call."


The fact that he didn't ask the mother, but rather the father, has absolutely NO BEARING on if he views a marriage as a partnership or not!! The father is traditionally and typically the "head of household" EVEN IF he disusses EVERYTHING with his wife... that's just how it's viewed!!!


It's precisely that ASSUMPTION that's bothersome to me. In my household, my mom was the bigger breadwinner and while my parents made decisions fairly equally, it was more common for my dad to defer to my mom. So in my family, I'd actually consider my mom the head of household. As I said in my initial post, that so-called gesture of respect would actually be an insult to my mom if she wasn't included. And if there's one thing that really pisses off my dad, it's insulting my mom.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 25
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/16/2010 12:19:28 AM
i know someone who did more than that. he promised to take care of her for the rest of her life. then they got divorced and now he is so guilty, it affects his future ablity to "commit" and he is fear based. meanwhile, she's having a heckuva good time. go figure..... my opinion, whatever makes the couple and parents happy, as long as the couple agrees first and foremost.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 26
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/16/2010 12:41:10 AM

It all depends on the lady really. I know quite a few that would be offended if the guy didn't and vice versa.

So really the "tradition" is that the guy does whatever she wants - or else.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 27
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/16/2010 1:18:08 PM

that you willingness to disrespect your father's traditional due is anything but a frightening indication of your attitudes towards men and your prospective husband?


The kind of guy that I would marry would respect me as an independent woman capable of making my own decisions and he would view marriage as an equal partnership so there should be nothing "frightening" to him about my attitudes toward men and marriage. I wouldn't marry a guy who has the "I'm the man of the house, ruler of the kingdom" mentality. Similarly, my dad respects me as my own woman and would never see the request to marry me as his "traditional due." As I previously stated, he's the type that would say, "It's up to her, not me."
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 28
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/16/2010 4:04:01 PM
I've always thought asking for the hand was a poor choice in body parts.
 mysticaries
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 29
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/17/2010 12:13:17 PM
If I ever get married, I would hope that my future husband would ask my parents/father for their blessing first. I think it shows class and respect for the family.I would be dissappointed if he did not. My family's opinion and blessing of a mate are very important to me. It's more of a gesture, it's not as if they are actually asking for permission or for the decision to be made for you.

The father was traditionally the head of the household, though with so many broken families these days that's becoming a rare phenomenon.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 30
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/17/2010 8:44:24 PM
For starters, I'm very curious what version of Tigerwoods' post Killingforcupcakes saw because the one I'm seeing waivers in its logic and is FAR from being "concise."


I merely pointed out a converse way of looking at things, given a past poster's comment that "only asking the dad shamed the mother as a secondary citizen/partner". Do you see a segment where I say that that's what I personally believe in that sentence?

Your "converse way of looking at things" was to take two totally unrelated beliefs and present them as if there was a correlation between the two. And a phrase like, "how can we not reverse the coin" does indeed suggest that the latter is an unavoidable conclusion to draw. If your intention was to say that some guys might draw that conclusion, then you should have said just that. Regardless, what I said about a guy who draws that conclusion not being somebody that I would marry still applies.

Your Dad would be precisely the kind of man I’d like to ask for approval from – a quick simple secret formality that would be done in 5 seconds and put me greatly at ease.

So I tell you that I don't like the practice and that it's a situation my dad would defer back to me yet he's "precisely the kind of man I'd like to ask for approval from"? How on earth can you see that as a gesture of respect to go against the other parties' wishes? All it is is selfish.

Next you quoted yourself and then made some snarky comment about "it's almost like I agreed with you before you even started this ridiculous bickering" even though there was nothing in that quote that I support. It contradicts what I've said throughout this thread and I suspect you didn't read all the posts before commenting.

What I've tried to do here is state that I don't like this practice and explain the reasons why. Other women have agreed with me while others say they like the practice. Neither side is "right." If anything, this thread should serve as a notice for guys to not blindly follow traditions but to find out what pleases their particular woman. Isn't that what's most important?
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 31
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 2/18/2010 5:23:05 PM

Had you not bothered to attack my OPINION (which is by no means the universal gospel truth) and simply addressed the content rather than the poster, we wouldn't even be having this "friendly discussion" in the first place.

You wrote a comment, I responded with one that addressed the content and was in no way directed at you. So to say we're only having this discussion because *I* attacked your opinion is bullshit.


How many men would CHECK with their prospective wives BEFORE planning a secret proposal? Kind of takes away from the surprise of the moment now wouldn't it...?

As I wrote earlier in this thread and reiterated in my last post, the divided beliefs on this issue are good reason why this topic should be discussed. I also specifically stated that I should take responsibility in making my displeasure with this practice known to the guy. How often do you think marriage comes as a surprise to anybody? When and where the proposal is made may be a surprise but both parties are going to know that the relationship is headed to marriage. So if the woman has strong feelings one way or the other and/or the guy wants to find out what the woman's preference is, a conversation on this topic should be initiated.


Isn't the ideal marriage a happy UNION OF FAMILIES?

It depends on each person's outlook. My marriage will be the union of two people. That's it. I would want my husband and family to have a good relationship with each other but he wouldn't be another son on the same footing as my brothers. I wouldn't want my parents advising my husband the same way they might my siblings nor would I want my husband discussing the same sorts of problems with my parents that my siblings might. He would be their son-in-law, not their son.


So perhaps asking them is the gentleman's way of asking if they're truly okay with him becoming a part of THEIR lives, and not just yours.

My prospective husband would be more than welcome to share the news with my parents AFTER he's asked me to marry him (ideally we'd tell them together). I should always be the one my husband goes to first for ANY issues concerning our relationship. And as I said before, verifying that they're truly okay with him marrying me is an empty gesture because I would expect him to marry me regardless of what my parents' response was. So to me, a person who says that asking the parents for their permission/blessing is a gesture of respect but wouldn't honor the parents wishes either way clearly has no concept of what respect means. And frankly, I don't think blessings should have to be requested, they should be offered. I have no doubt that if my fiance and I went to my parents and told them we were getting married they would make their happiness with the situation well known. Nobody would have to pull their blessings out of them.
 DragNFlyBuzzez
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 32
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Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 4/21/2010 5:41:47 PM
GET A PRENUP AGREEMENT FIRST, OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!!!!!!!!!
 jezebellpgh
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 33
Asking for a woman's hand in marriage
Posted: 11/3/2010 5:39:15 PM
The Bachelor is a show that degrades human relations, you should be ashamed to say to watch it. However, you are 20 something how can I expect anything more?
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