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 Janet_Always
Joined: 6/20/2012
Msg: 281
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?Page 10 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
Many will appreciate the fact that you don't have children to support and make a priority over them.

If some see it as a red flag, so what. People can get hung up on too many red flags and I've read about some pretty ridiculous ones in these forums and with others chatting via email.
 FairlyAlright
Joined: 9/26/2011
Msg: 282
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 6:17:48 AM


If some see it as a red flag, so what. People can get hung up on too many red flags and I've read about some pretty ridiculous ones in these forums and with others chatting via email.


I have a shirt with red flags on it that I've worn on some dates.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 283
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 6:31:40 AM
It not an ignorant stereotype it is my preference based on my personal experience and it works for me.


That you believe it and cling to it does not mean it isn't an ignorant stereotype.


I don't know about you, but where I come from, we don't just throw them out when they reach the ripe old age of 18. You sir are now assuming a lot about my life, for all you know, I have a seriously disabled child that I am responsible for permanently, that is not the case, but 8, 18 or 28, they are still my children and if they need me, I will be there for them, just as they would do the same for me. As the saying goes, I would step in front of a bus for them. And that for me again raises the red flag, while yes they are adults and standing on their own, they are still and always will be my children and if they need me that will be my priority in their time of need.


I assumed nothing except what was in your profile. I asked a question.

You still don't get it. Someone who doesn't have children of their own is just as likely to understand where you're coming from as someone who is a father. Your belief that only a father can live with your point of view is just plain wrong. Some of the most selfish bastards I know are fathers and some of the most accomodating people I know are not fathers. People are individuals, they are not all alike.

As I said before, if you want to eliminate men from your potential dating pool based on this, it's no skin off my nose.

I'm curious, what about someone who was married but has no children? Is that also a red flag for you?
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 284
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 2:30:37 PM
abmmcray


<div class="quote">The issue is that you're using logical fallacies to make a strong decision/prejudgment, whereas the posts you're quoting are either mentioning common-sense or proven observations, or using empirical or subjective evidence only to make a statement of percentages.

No, the issue is that I am using my life experiences to make personal decision based on what I want. It is no different that wanting someone who is skinny, fit, employed etc. (take a look at your own profile) And the issue becomes that while it is okay for those who have never been married and/or without children to spew venom at those of us do and have different preferences, heaven help us for having a preference and answering a question. If I was using the information to create an argument that would be one thing, but since am not, I am merely using my life experiences to state my preferences there is no fallacy, fallacious thinking etc.. and by the way, my experience of 100% of the men I have encountered in my age group without children either don't understand what is essential for parenting or are full of helpful (not) advice on what I am doing wrong and what I need to change to ensure that my kids are sucessful.


<div class="quote">You're getting called out because you're making a stance based on fallacious reasoning. Having an opinion is fine, but when the basis of your opinion is illogical or provably wrong, people will say something about it.

No I am getting called out because I and others have stated our preferences and you don't like them. You also failed to address all the opinions of others that are based on what? and btw, that was only a sampling of the quotes. Because they are agree with you, what they state is fact and not fallacious thinking? I think not.

Paderic



I assumed nothing except what was in your profile. I asked a question


No you asked a rhetorical question. Big difference. The implication of which was "for gawd's sake cut the apron strings already." And there we went again encountering someone with no children giving parenting advice in respect to situations they know nothing about.



You still don't get it.


No you still don't get it, my personal preference is for a man who has children, and yes a man who had been married and does not have children is also a red flag and so is a man who has no contact with his children.
And calling me out on it and calling me ignorant is not going to change my personal preferences. It sounds more like to me that anyone who does not agree with you is wrong. Now I am not saying that you are wrong, in fact, not saying much of anything on it other than defending my right to have my personal preferences.



As I said before, if you want to eliminate men from your potential dating pool based on this, it's no skin off my nose


Well since I have already eliminated all but one from my dating pool, it doesn't really matter does it?
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 285
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 6:35:36 PM
No, the issue is that I am using my life experiences to make personal decision based on what I want. It is no different that wanting someone who is skinny, fit, employed etc. (take a look at your own profile) And the issue becomes that while it is okay for those who have never been married and/or without children to spew venom at those of us do and have different preferences, heaven help us for having a preference and answering a question.


No, the issue is that you posted something untrue about the character of men who have not fathered children. If you only said that it was your preference to not date men with no children, there would be no discussion.

If anyone were spouting venom directed at you, they would receive a timeout from the moderators. Taking issue with the content of your posts is NOT spouting venom.


I am merely using my life experiences to state my preferences there is no fallacy, fallacious thinking etc..


No you're not, you're stating that your preference is based on a character issue you have with men who haven't had children. I don't give a rip who you date. It's the stereotype I took exception to.


And calling me out on it and calling me ignorant is not going to change my personal preferences.


I didn't say you were ignorant. I said the stereotype you posted was ignorant, which it is.

No you asked a rhetorical question.


I asked the question because I didn't know the answer. I often see women say in their profiles that their kids are on their own, so it's "me time" from then on out.

The implication of which was "for gawd's sake cut the apron strings already."


WRONG.
 Indysweetpea2001_
Joined: 8/1/2008
Msg: 286
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 6:37:24 PM
As with anything this maybe a good thing to some and a red flag to others. Everyone has their own opinions.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 287
view profile
History
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 7:36:40 PM

I am merely using my life experiences to state my preferences there is no fallacy, fallacious thinking etc


No, you actually are making an error in your basic reasoning, and that's what people are pointing out.

Opinions are subjective, but the process in which someone comes to their opinion can be proven to be errant. People don't care about the opinion - they're seeing giant holes in the logic you're using to come to that opinion. And when people point specifically at the logic, you can't see it for some reason, and keep crawling back to a shelter of "it's my opinion/you're mad" which end up being a mix of ad hominem arguments (a fallacy), appeal to emotion (fallacy), ad hocs, and a few other things.

This is the flaw with your reasoning - here's a type of question that is found on any IQ test for instance:

- Some Bills are Sams and all Sams are Tims. You meet a Bill - is he a Tim?

a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Not enough information.

You pick the wrong answer to this type of question in real life, because you make wrong jumps in your thinking. And people are bringing it out because you're only limiting yourself by doing so.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 288
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 7:39:43 PM
No, the issue is that you posted something untrue about the character of men who have not fathered children. If you only said that it was your preference to not date men with no children, there would be no discussion.


Okay so here is where I started on this thread.


I will probably get shot down for this, but in my experience the reason that I tend to shy away from guys who have never had kids, is the lack of understanding of the place my kids have in my life.


Must be psychic, boy I called that but notice - IN MY EXPERIENCE.


And this makes my point, never ever said that the man was going to be second, said the man needed to understand that he couldn't always be in first place and in my experience men in my age range without kids, don't undertand that


My next post - again IN MY EXPERIENCE


Again like many other things, these are not judgments just personal choices.


My third post - Note the pattern?


But that is not the issue here, for me it is my personal experience with men in my age group that don't have kids and their lack of understanding of what parenting is all about. And I again will emphasize that is my bias based on my personal experience. I know that not all men/women without children behave the same way but I would always be cautious of someone who doesn't have kids.


Fourth post - Wow, pattern is becoming more and more clear - obviously I am stereotyping. (excuse the sarcasm)


I have noticed that most of the posts saying that it is not or should not be a red flag are from ppl who are single with no kids, guess what, you don't get to decide what is a red flag for me until you walk a mile in my shoes.


Not quite so clear however more of my life - my decision.


If you dont want them, of course do not have them and no one should judge for that. It is the right decision for you, just a choosing to not have a relationship with a man who does not have kids is the right decision for me.

Again notice not condenming just saying not for me.


but what I do know is that from my experience, the men that I have dated that had children had a greater understanding that many decisions had to be made based on what was in the best interest of the children and not what they wanted.


note - MY EXPERIENCE


It not an ignorant stereotype it is my preference based on my personal experience and it works for me.

notice it is my preference?



No, the issue is that I am using my life experiences to make personal decision based on what I want.


Again experiences - personal could just mean for me it works?

So tell me where it was that I said something other than it was my preference? I can't seem to find it, perhaps you have a skill at reading between the lines.

And again all you can say is I am wrong and stereotyping while never addressing the "ignorant and stereotypical" comments addressed to those of us who have been married and had children. But of course since those comment support your argument, they are truths.


I didn't say you were ignorant. I said the stereotype you posted was ignorant, which it is.


Wow Paderic maybe you should look back at what you wrote?


It's really quite simple to me. If someone won't date me because I'm single and childless, I won't date them because they're ignorant and prone to stereotyping.


So apparently I am ignorant and prone to stereotyping. Sorry anyone who can make that type of judgment, and yes it is a judgment, is not really in any position to accuse others of making judgments.

abmccray


No, you actually are making an error in your basic reasoning, and that's what people are pointing out


Because you disagree with what I said means that I am making an error in my basic reasoning? I don't think so. In fact, I would say that is a fallacious argument.We all make relationship decisions based on our personal experiences, not quite sure how else we would do it. My experiences guide me to where I am and what I want.

And no not all Bills are Tims, but since I really really despise all Bills, I sure in the h3ll would proceed with caution if I met a Tim.

 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 289
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 7:52:25 PM
Wow Paderic maybe you should look back at what you wrote?


I don't have to look back, because I know that I have only used the adjective "ignorant" to modify the noun "stereotype."

Maybe YOU should look back at what I wrote. If you can show me a sentence where I called you ignorant, I will report myself to the moderators.

Preceding a stereotype with the words, "In my experience," does not make it less of a stereotype. If I were to post, "In my experience, women are stupid," that would be an ignorant stereotype.
 vancitygurl78
Joined: 7/6/2012
Msg: 290
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 7:54:06 PM
I'm 34 and I am not married not have kids! And I'm brown so u can understand all the 'gossiping n' lecturing" i'm getting from everyone for not being married at my age! Meh, I ignore it all. When u find the right person it doesn't matter what age that may be but there's no need to rush into getting married cuz everyone is getting divorced nowadays
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 291
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 8:07:22 PM

I don't have to look back, because I know that the only time I have used the adjective "ignorant" was to modify the noun "stereotype."


Check out message 54.


And I quote for the third time


It's really quite simple to me. If someone won't date me because I'm single and childless, I won't date them because they're ignorant and prone to stereotyping.


While not aimed directly at me, you sure did say that.


Preceding a stereotype with the words, "In my experience," does not make it less of a stereotype


As everytime, you have actually misread what I wrote. Not once did I say anything other than what I had observed and qualified with the following:


I know that not all men/women without children behave the same way but I would always be cautious of someone who doesn't have kids.


I have qualified my experience, not saying all men are like this, not even saying in my experience. Just saying that my personal experiences set a warning in my brain to proceed with caution if at all.

So again it comes back to because you don't like what I say, I am wrong. Apparently my personal opinion means nothing if it does not agree with yours.
 Thornz2000
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 292
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/16/2012 9:00:35 PM
We're alike and here is my post.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts15409329.aspx

No clue what goes through a woman's head when she see us.
 pfif
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 293
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 12:10:09 AM
^^ You're plural?
 ARIESLOOKING192150
Joined: 3/21/2012
Msg: 294
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 1:41:54 AM
I haven't read every post. Someone might have already brought this up. When I see someone who has never married, That does make me wonder. But no red flag. I'll still date them to see what they have to offer.

As far as kids go, If they don't have them or they are grown and out, That's a plus with me. I may piss someone off here, I'm just being honest. Most people now that I have encountered have no idea how to raise a child. Most people now let there kids get away with any and everything. But mostly I see a lot of disrespect in kids now.

My kids were taught like I was. They know what respect is and how they are supposed to carry themselves. A lot of the women I have dated that had kids, Well, It's part of the reason I'm not dating them anymore. I raised my kids right. Not one woman who I have dated has my kids ever been disrespectful to. I can't say the same thing about some of the women and their kids that I dated. I will not put up with someones smart mouthed, No respect brats. So, The kid part, That's a plus with me.
 shoopashoes
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 295
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 2:37:19 AM
Not at all as far as I am concerned. To me divorced with children would be more of a red flag if you see " red flags" rather then simple incompatability whilst getting to know someone.

I must say though, I am staggered by the number of men on here with children ( and some without ) who's longest relationship by late 30's to 40's, is 12 months. That to me would be a worry without some plausible reason. And even then I doubt they would be suited to myself as I actually like to be in a relationship, just don't need one as such, so have remained single rather then settle.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 296
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 5:32:25 AM
Check out message 54.


That message was posted more than two years ago and was a general response to the question posed. It was not directed at you or any other individual.


As everytime, you have actually misread what I wrote. Not once did I say anything other than what I had observed and qualified with the following:


I haven't missed a thing.
 Miss W
Joined: 12/4/2006
Msg: 297
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:27:28 AM
Nope, and if they see this as a red flag, they can kiss where I can't.
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 298
view profile
History
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:42:12 AM

I didn't fall into the same idiotic marriage trap as %60 of the married/divorced population. I must be screwed up or something.

Did you ever think about the other 40% ? In the 40% how many are separated but not yet divorced? How many are only together for the kids? How many, though not completely regretful, would not marry if they could go back in time?

Never married people are now chastised, prejudged, and "red flagged" for not making the same fvck ups as our accusers. I laugh and revel in my independance every day while learning from other's mistakes. I don't mind being judged as long as I'm envied in the process for my intelligent decisions in life.

Cheers to all never married people. Our bank accounts are intact, we have our independence to come and go as we please, we live life to it's fullest. I'd rather die alone than live my last days in misery. It's called being choosy and risk management is my forte'.


Well said!

I love how people tell me how horrible my life is because I don't have kids or haven't married yet. Meanwhile I am finishing up school to obtain a degree, saving money for a house, and almost paid off my car loan.
 FairlyAlright
Joined: 9/26/2011
Msg: 299
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 10:31:17 AM


I didn't fall into the same idiotic marriage trap as %60 of the married/divorced population. I must be screwed up or something.

Did you ever think about the other 40% ? In the 40% how many are separated but not yet divorced? How many are only together for the kids? How many, though not completely regretful, would not marry if they could go back in time?

Never married people are now chastised, prejudged, and "red flagged" for not making the same fvck ups as our accusers. I laugh and revel in my independance every day while learning from other's mistakes. I don't mind being judged as long as I'm envied in the process for my intelligent decisions in life.

Cheers to all never married people. Our bank accounts are intact, we have our independence to come and go as we please, we live life to it's fullest. I'd rather die alone than live my last days in misery. It's called being choosy and risk management is my forte'.


Bravo!

Sincerely,

- A separated trying-to-get-divorced guy
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 300
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 2:00:25 PM
padric


That message was posted more than two years ago and was a general response to the question posed. It was not directed at you or any other individual.


So because it no longer suits your argument, it doesn't mean what you wrote? I don't think so. While obviously not aimed at me directly it was aimed at each and every one of us who feels the same way.


If someone won't date me because I'm single and childless, I won't date them because they're ignorant and prone to stereotyping.


Nope, didn't take it out of context, didn't change the words and certainly didn't misunderstand it! You said it posted it on line were pretty clear about your meaning and now that you have "call out on it" you are denying it.


I haven't missed a thing.


Wow, again you MISREAD what i wrote.


Most people now let there kids get away with any and everything. But mostly I see a lot of disrespect in kids now.

Arieslooking - Wow so you did it right and most of the rest of the world did it wrong? Sure there are bad kids, and spoiled kids and rotten little monsters. But not most, at best. Most of the young people I know are quite well behaved, respectful, polite and decent young adults.


Never married people are now chastised, prejudged, and "red flagged" for not making the same fvck ups as our accusers. I laugh and revel in my independance every day while learning from other's mistakes.


Because itis not what you want, it is a mistake? Yes some marriages are mistakes, but on the whole people are in love a choose to commit and have children. It doesn't always work out the way they hope but that doesn't make it a mistake. And most ofus certainly would not consider our children to be a mistake. (That is where the red flag comes into play. You consider my family to be a mistake, not really interested)


I don't mind being judged as long as I'm envied in the process for my intelligent decisions in life.


Envied, maybe a few might envy you, but you are pretty full of your self to assume that those of us who made different choices regret our lives.


I love how people tell me how horrible my life is because I don't have kids or haven't married yet. Meanwhile I am finishing up school to obtain a degree, saving money for a house, and almost paid off my car loan.


Well anyone who tells you that is an idiot! Everyone makes different choices, perhaps you are placing things into the conversation that aren't really there. But guess what, I have a degree, live very comfortably with every thing I want, virutally no debt and had two kids by the time I was your age. So big deal.
 HappinessOK
Joined: 7/19/2009
Msg: 301
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 3:18:22 PM
I talked with someone recently who is a good looking all American kinda guy he is in his 50's and has never married or got close to it. When I asked him why..he said "I can have as much sex as I want, with whom I want and not answer to anybody" ...that was a good enough answer for me! RED FLAG!
 pfif
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 302
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 3:43:55 PM
^^ That's not even close to how things work -- next time, ask follow-up questions,
unless exaggeration is a red flag for you.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 303
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 3:54:47 PM
So because it no longer suits your argument, it doesn't mean what you wrote? I don't think so. While obviously not aimed at me directly it was aimed at each and every one of us who feels the same way.


No, because it was from a different conversation and you're taking it out of context. In my direct conversation with you, I did not call you ignorant (or anything else).

Forum rules do not prohibit describing people as ignorant for engaging in a behavior. What's against the rules is to direct it at an individual in the form of a personal attack.

As for what I think, I'm allowed to think whatever I want. As are you.

Wow, again you MISREAD what i wrote.


No, I DIDN'T. If you want to play word games, your posts could be picked to bits.
 TheFamine
Joined: 7/12/2011
Msg: 304
view profile
History
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 4:11:34 PM
George Clooney has never been married or had kids. No red flags there, women still swarm over him.

Odds are there are women your age under the same situation. Good looking ones too. Dig deep and find your treasure hermano.
 ARIESLOOKING192150
Joined: 3/21/2012
Msg: 305
Never been married, no kids. Is this a red flag?
Posted: 7/17/2012 7:41:57 PM
I know this is a little off topic here. But I want to make an observation here. I read a lot of different threads. Some of the threads I read, I see a lot of men saying that women in general have the advantage over men when it comes to picking and choosing. I don't look at it that way. And threads like this prove it. There are millions of single men out there. Some never married. They chose to be that way for different reasons. But no matter the reason it proves that there are a lot of men out there that are comfortable within themselves. They don't need a woman to complete them. It seems to me that men like these,When they get ready,Will be the better catch. Men who are comfortable within themselves really are the ones with the upper hand. There is way more women out there than there are men.

With that being said, Men who are comfortable within themselves have plenty of women to choose from. Women in general are more attracted to men like this than they are the ones who are in a big hurry and just looking for something to screw. Just an observation.
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