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 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 126
Your Personal PhilosophyPage 6 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

Posted By: kidreason29
Noism ~= Anti-ism

Noism ~ = Stepford Wife-ism


Posted By: kidreason29
All ism's are contained within Noism, because once you remove the abstract structure of an ism, you are left no Noism.

for your theory of Noism to apply, one would have to exist on a conscious level incapable of removing conceiving or applying an abstract structure to anything in existence ..

FOR EXAMPLE
an amoeba which can be said to not have any isms but only reacts to environmental stimuli or a Stepford Wife that has no isms and only reacts happily to commands


Posted By: kidreason29
An omni being is therefore a Noist.

would be the same as a God with Alzheimer's


Posted By: kidreason29
Review my "LAWS OF NOTHING AND EVERYTHING", they are universally true.

Laws are isms and therefore not Truth
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 127
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 1:13:02 PM

There are no "isms" contained in noism, therefore an omni being is not a noist.. Your Laws of everything and nothing are universlly false.


Take any ism, and remove it, you are left with Noism. Therefore Noism is the super set of all isms.


for your theory of Noism to apply, one would have to exist on a conscious level incapable of removing conceiving or applying an abstract structure to anything in existence ..


A human cannot be a Noist. If one tried to be a Noist, they would end up doing Anti-ism instead. As a human you could have a Noism experience though. But only omni beings are complete Noist all the time.


an amoeba which can be said to not have any isms but only reacts to environmental stimuli

A pure Noist is not constricted/encapsulated by its own being, it is capable of complete awareness of everything AND nothing.


Laws are isms and therefore not Truth


Well then, "AXIOMS OF NOTHING AND EVERYTHING", hows that?
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 128
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 2:51:27 PM
Your "AXIOMS OF NOTHING AND EVERYTHING" are just meaningless wordplay for the sake of argument. In the old days we called it bullsh*t.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 129
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 3:51:09 PM
^ I see no reasoning offered here, just subjective statements. It doesn't matter what it is called, theories contain laws, and proofs contain axioms. Axioms work better here. So it still stands,

ONTOLOGICAL PROOF (can't get my logic symbols to work anymoar aww..)
Noism (isnt equal to) Anti-ism

Given any one ism, to remove it you are left with Noism.
(therefore) Every ism is contained within Noism. (Noism is the super set of all isms)
^ therefore Noism = Everyism


A Noist has every ism contained within them, capable of perceiving every-ism and noism simultaneously.
(therefore) Noism is a quantum-ism.

An omni being is therefore a Noist.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 130
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Posted: 9/23/2016 5:15:37 PM

Given any one ism, to remove it you are left with Noism.
(therefore) Every ism is contained within Noism. (Noism is the super set of all isms)
^ therefore Noism = Everyism

Given any one number, to remove it you are left with Zero.
Every number is contained within Zero. (Zero is the super set of all numbers)
^ therefore Zero = All numbers

Your second premise is causing your confusion. Zero and Noism are the empty set, not the infinite set.

Not having any philosophy isn't equal to having every philosophy. It's just not having any philosophy.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 131
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 6:18:10 PM
@ Gingerosity

Well put. (I hope my comment is long enough to get posted.)
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 132
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Posted: 9/23/2016 6:36:35 PM

In the old days we called it bullsh*t.


We use softer language now, to acomedate the politically sensitive ear. It has been changed to male bovine excrement now.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 133
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 6:48:19 PM

Given any one number, to remove it you are left with Zero.
Every number is contained within Zero. (Zero is the super set of all numbers)
^ therefore Zero = All numbers

Your second premise is causing your confusion. Zero and Noism are the empty set, not the infinite set.

Not having any philosophy isn't equal to having every philosophy. It's just not having any philosophy.


Wow, you know, its funny. I had the same exact thought, with zero containing every number... strange, but


therefore Zero = All numbers

Zero contains all numbers within it, such that if you added them all together you would get zero.

Again, Noism = the union of all isms (or the sum of all isms) = Everyism
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 134
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:03:40 PM
^^^ There is no such thing as zero. It is just a different way of measuring infinity. Infinity does not constitute "everything," just as zero does not constitute "nothing." Both of the concepts are a product of fallacious reasoning because neither exist actually. Infinity relates to that which is not contained within everything. "Everything" is finite. Infinity merely describes a point that lies beyond the finite, just as nothing does. Now whether this point beyond the finite is actual or illusion is a matter of contention.


{edited^^^
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 135
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:35:28 PM
Wait...did somebody say that if you add all numbers together, it equals zero? That's some weird math.

Lemme see...one plus two, three. Darn. Not zero yet. Put that with four, then five, and aw heck six too. Eighteen. Dammit. Not zero. Well we kinda skipped three. So all that plus three. Um, twenty one. Twenty one isn't zero. How far do I have to go? Every number? But that'll never end. We'll be adding forever. And seems to me...the total will just keep getting bigger. Is there some weird place that we'll reach when it somehow ends up being zero? Maybe where I messed up is when I already had three as a total, and didn't have to add it in separately? But wait, I already tried both ways. Um, I don't get it.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 136
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:39:37 PM

Wait...did somebody say that if you add all numbers together, it equals zero? That's some weird math.


^^^ especially when there is no such thing as "all numbers."
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 137
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 7:48:28 PM

Wait...did somebody say that if you add all numbers together, it equals zero? That's some weird math.

Lemme see...one plus two, three. Darn. Not zero yet. Put that with four, then five, and aw heck six too. Eighteen. Dammit. Not zero. Well we kinda skipped three. So all that plus three. Um, twenty one. Twenty one isn't zero. How far do I have to go? Every number? But that'll never end. We'll be adding forever. And seems to me...the total will just keep getting bigger. Is there some weird place that we'll reach when it somehow ends up being zero? Maybe where I messed up is when I already had three as a total, and didn't have to add it in separately? But wait, I already tried both ways. Um, I don't get it.


well, here it is,

the sum of all positive integers is actually really small, its -1/12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_%2B_2_%2B_3_%2B_4_%2B_%E2%8B%AF

also I meant the sum of ALL real numbers, which is zero
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 138
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:50:54 PM
No, you didn't quite say that. We need to work on your communication.

Your metaphor can break down. When trying to translate an idea about isms into this number stuff...you might lose something in that translation.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 139
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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:58:23 PM

well, here it is,


Your proof is nothing but a mathematical fiction. Seeing as how all antimatter was annihilated shortly after the big bang, leaving us with this beautifully imbalanced universe.

So, it would seem that the set of all REAL positives is indeed not equal to the set of all REAL negatives, actually. Therefore nothing/0 does not exist, just as reason would tell us it shouldn't.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 140
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 8:04:32 PM

^^^ especially when there is no such thing as "all numbers."


A set can contain all real numbers, such as the real number line -infinity < x < infinity, unless you are talking about imaginary/transcendental #'s, I'm referring to two distinct isms as two distinct real numbers


^^^ There is no such thing as zero. It is just a different way of measuring infinity.


yeah zero and infinity are related, zero = 1/infinity


Infinity relates to that which is not contained within everything

Sounds like you are saying infinity is zero or nothing. That there are infinitely many possibilities outside of everything.


"Everything" is finite. Infinity merely describes a point that lies beyond the finite, just as nothing does.


but everything, by definition includes all things, unless the infinity consists of no things then it includes it
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 141
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 8:11:51 PM

So, it would seem that the set of all REAL positives is indeed not equal to the set of all REAL negatives, actually. Therefore nothing/0 does not exist, just as reason would tell us it shouldn't.


my translation: instability between the + and - real numbers created the imbalanced universe, is this what you mean?
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 142
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Posted: 9/23/2016 8:37:04 PM

Sounds like you are saying infinity is zero or nothing.


No, I am saying that both concepts are a product of fallacious reasoning. A mere illusion conjured by the nature of reality. The universe is the finite caught in an infinite loop. The illusion of infinity is there but all THINGS are definite. Space is limited. Time Begins and ends. Matter has definable boundaries etc.


yeah zero and infinity are related, zero = 1/infinity


They are not related. They are two ways of describing a single phenomenon.


but everything, by definition includes all things,


All THINGS are definite not infinite. that is why the universe functions the way it does: smoothly/Definitely. It is why we can make predictions: speed of light, gravity, electromagnetism etc. It is predictable/operates in a CERTAIN way.


unless the infinity consists of no things then it includes it


Nothing is not real. By its own definition it is impossible. Infinity is only an illusion. What we should be asking ourselves is "what is it that both concepts fail to accurately describe."
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 143
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 8:44:21 PM
@kidreason

“Zero contains all numbers within it, such that if you added them all together you would get zero. “

Only if the positive and negative numbers cancel each other out do you get zero for the sum. Depending on the kind of numbers they are, “everything” has cardinality aleph naught or c, or one of the other infinities. Whole numbers added together do not sum to zero, and zero does not exist in the set of natural numbers.

@CressB

“There is no such thing as zero. It is just a different way of measuring infinity. Infinity does not constitute "everything," just as zero does not constitute "nothing." Both of the concepts are a product of fallacious reasoning because neither exist actually. Infinity relates to that which is not contained within everything. "Everything" is finite. Infinity merely describes a point that lies beyond the finite, just as nothing does. Now whether this point beyond the finite is actual or illusion is a matter of contention. “

Zero doesn't correlate with infinity at all. There are an infinite number of infinities, but in the mathematical universe, a given set of infinities does not constitute “everything”, only everything in a specific, defined mathematical domain.

At this point it makes sense to ask what mathematical philosophy one adheres to...Platonism (mathematics exists as platonic forms), formalism (math is just a meaningless game we play that for some reason seems to correspond with the perceived reality), or constructivism (owing to the inherent paradoxes, infinities are not allowed, math must be built with finitary construction) (They are all equally “valid.”)

@Drink

I like your POV. It's a lot like mine, simple. I was reminded of an episode of the beverly hillbillies wherein a couple of Mr. Drysdales' friends thought Jethro was a mathematical prodigy who developed a whole new system of mathematics. They were in awe when they saw that for Jethro, 2+2 =5.

@CressB

^^^ especially when there is no such thing as "all numbers."

That's like saying there's no such thing as english words.


@ CressB

“...all antimatter was annihilated shortly after the big bang, leaving us with this beautifully imbalanced universe. “

What big bang? How would you know whether or not the universe is imbalanced? One should never jump to conclusions and cite popular belief as if it were true.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 144
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Posted: 9/23/2016 8:44:43 PM

my translation: instability between the + and - real numbers created the imbalanced universe, is this what you mean?


there is no instability. It is VERY stable. 13.7 bil yr so far.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 145
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Posted: 9/23/2016 9:06:34 PM

Zero contains all numbers within it, such that if you added them all together you would get zero.

Again, Noism = the union of all isms (or the sum of all isms) = Everyism

Again, it's the empty set not the infinite set. It doesn't 'contain all isms/numbers within it'. It has no members and no cardinality. Its Venn diagram would be a singularity, not an all-encompassing circle.


Darling (2004) explains that the empty set is not nothing, but rather "the set of all triangles with four sides, the set of all numbers that are bigger than nine but smaller than eight, and the set of all opening moves in chess that involve a king."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_set#Philosophical_issues
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 146
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Posted: 9/23/2016 9:26:30 PM

Zero doesn't correlate with infinity at all. There are an infinite number of infinities, but in the mathematical universe, a given set of infinities does not constitute “everything”, only everything in a specific, defined mathematical domain.


In geometry, zero denotes origin. The only way one can achieve infinity is on a sphere, otherwise one is eventually forced to rest. Only by combining origin and infinity can one make the potential for infinity actual/possible. Pick a point on a sphere and create an infinite ray: you now have finite infinity (all you have to do is add a clock to keep track of it - nothing to keep track of then no need for a clock so time is not infinite either). Origin then becomes infinity as well. Find a different point on the sphere and you now have a new origin and a new infinity. As far as we know there is the Planck limit, so there should be a limit to the potential number of origins possible in the universe at any given time.


At this point it makes sense to ask what mathematical philosophy one adheres to...Platonism (mathematics exists as platonic forms), formalism (math is just a meaningless game we play that for some reason seems to correspond with the perceived reality), or constructivism (owing to the inherent paradoxes, infinities are not allowed, math must be built with finitary construction) (They are all equally “valid.”)


Frankly, I don't know what any of this has to do with reality. ;)


What big bang? How would you know whether or not the universe is imbalanced? One should never jump to conclusions and cite popular belief as if it were true.


Then you are saying that the universe had no beginning in time (the big bang isn't by any means jumping to conclusions by the way)? So nothing began then? What is your explanation for the observations made by astrophysicists that would seem to point to the opposite conclusion? I know what you are doing Ducky. You are trying to obfuscate the point because you believe that there is no answer. That is where you and I differ: I think that it is possible that there is an answer.


That's like saying there's no such thing as english words.


Can you name them for me. Call it a proof of concept.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 147
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/23/2016 10:10:29 PM
@CressB

“What is your explanation for the observations made by astrophysicists that would seem to point to the opposite conclusion?” The Big bang is deeply flawed, like epicycles. The people trying to hang onto it aare forced to postulate stuff like dark matter, dark energy, a new nuclear force, etc. I predict it will be replaced by a better, simpler, more all-encompassing theory.

“I know what you are doing Ducky. You are trying to obfuscate the point because you believe that there is no answer.”

I;ve lost track...What was the question again? ;D

That is where you and I differ: I think that there is an answer.

I think there's an answer too. I just don't think we know it....Oh yeah! My personal philosophy. I'm egalitarian.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 148
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/24/2016 4:54:32 AM

Again, it's the empty set not the infinite set


Take any set, remove all its elements, you are left with the empty set.
And all sets contain the empty set.


Darling (2004) explains that the empty set is not nothing, but rather "the set of all triangles with four sides, the set of all numbers that are bigger than nine but smaller than eight, and the set of all opening moves in chess that involve a king."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_set#Philosophical_issues


empty set is also referred to as null set
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 149
Your Personal Philosophy
Posted: 9/24/2016 6:26:57 AM

Posted By: kidreason29
Take any ism, and remove it, you are left with Noism

you're simply replacing that ism with your own ism (Narcissus-ism)


Posted By: kidreason29
A human cannot be a Noist.

1.someone that had a lobotomy (Stepford wife-ism)
2.someone in a vegetative state (Ignorant bliss-ism)
3.someone that has no feelings (Sociopath-ism)
3.a baby doesn't care about you or the universe as long as they get a steady supply of milk and a diaper change (little brat-ism)


Posted By: kidreason29
But only omni beings are complete Noist all the time.

can you give the name of one of those Omni-Beings? ..if not ...then Noism is based on fantasy (Delusion-ism)


Posted By: kidreason29
Well then, "AXIOMS OF NOTHING AND EVERYTHING", hows that?

unfortunately Axioms are isms thereby classifying Noism as Faith based Truth (Cultism)
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
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Posted: 9/24/2016 7:25:55 AM

Take any set, remove all its elements, you are left with the empty set.


Ok, lets take the set of all things. 1) Where will you remove it to? 2) Once you have moved it does it become any less the set of all things?


empty set is also referred to as null set


What proof have you of this "null". Nothing does not exist as it rightly should not.
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