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 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 76
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?Page 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

I'm not talking about the guys that are getting women pregnant. I'm talking about guys that are being successful in not getting women pregnant yet getting accused of impregnating these women. If a female is going to simply point a finger at a guy, she should have to provide reasonable evidence. Moreover, if she's found to be wrong, she should have to face some kind of penalty.

If you've never slept with a woman or you're not capable of impregnating her, then it's not going to be much of a deal for long, correct? So make sure that when it comes down you can say "I never touched her" or "I can't knock up a tree stump", whichever the case may be.

Option C. She can pay for it, and if/when it's found not to be mine, she can pay my court costs and kick rocks.

If there is an option C - then I'd go with that too. I'm not sure that option is accurate. If it isn't it won't matter how much you want to go that route. Tell the judge/courts that and see where it takes you if that's your choice. Again, not what SHOULD be, but what IS.

Yet one more person that is rehashing the argument that was shot down in the Roe v Wade case. Dusting it off 40 years later and pitting it against men doesn't quite work so well for those who are intellectually honest.

If you are ABLE to create a child, there's no way if you were there and participated you can say you have nothing to do with it. And what does Roe v. Wade have to do with your end? Isn't that an abortion case? In case you are trying to stop or inflict an abortion legally on someone else - how is that relevant to men creating children?

Well that's one way to sidestep a debate. That kind of thinking prevents societal progression.

True. Let's go with your way. I want to do what I want when I want, and if something comes of it, why should I deal with that? Ayep.

Umm...my metabolism is high enough (for now at least) that I can eat ice cream that often and not worry about gaining weight. However, if someone else gains weight from eating the same ice cream, I shouldn't have to be involved in the repercussions thereafter.

If someone you never met somewhere you've never been eats ice cream and gains weight, you are correct. If you ARE the ice cream, or you produce it or provide it - to some extent, you are liable. Sorry. Stop providing it if you want no part of the end result. Duh.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 77
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 11:58:26 AM
[If] you're not capable of impregnating her, then it's not going to be much of a deal for long, correct?

Unless you don't know that you've been accused until after the child support companies start garnishing your wages. Courts send out a subpoena, but they send it to her house because she doesn't know his address. She throws away the subpoena. He never shows up to court. Now he has to pay child support. It happens.


what does Roe v. Wade have to do with your end?

Because the argument against was "if you don't want to get pregnant, then don't have sex." You're saying something quite similar.


True. Let's go with your way. I want to do what I want when I want, and if something comes of it, why should I deal with that? Ayep.

If I go to a sporting event. I shouldn't be imprisoned because I was sitting next to the guy that decides to open fire on a bunch of people in the crowd. The only tie that I had with him is that we were at the same event.


If you ARE the ice cream, or you produce it or provide it - to some extent, you are liable. Sorry. Stop providing it if you want no part of the end result. Duh.

You sound like those people that try to sue McDonald's for making them fat. Where was that whole personal responsibility thing that you were talking about?

Simple age-old question. Would you rather see the innocent go to jail, or would you rather see the guilty go free?
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 78
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 12:36:41 PM

I was sitting next to the guy that decides to open fire on a bunch of people in the crowd. The only tie that I had with him is that we were at the same event.

Yeah, but you put the bullets into his gun based on his promise not to pull the trigger.

Or, like me, you have some sperm frozen and get clipped.

Yeah, the way of the future - men taking control of their own reproductive life instead of trying to control womens! Seriously, I like it and if I had a teenage boy this is what I'd suggest to him. I do have grandkids who'll be teenagers eventually, so I still have a chance to save a few men from nasty women ... or am I saving men from themselves? Whatever, it does seem to be the best solution all round.
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 79
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 12:47:24 PM
@ all the metaphors you all are using to explain your stances!

The arguments here are all good reasons to carry your own condoms and be super careful with them; it's not bullet proof but it reduces the risks involved.

Or, like me, you have some sperm frozen and get clipped.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 80
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 1:51:58 PM
Why on earth would you sleep with a woman who upon getting pregnant, has to lie about paternity and point fingers all around?
What happened to using protection until you were in the position of wanting to conceive?
You obviously sleep with some real skanks........they do say water attracts its own level.
Make better choices.
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 81
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 2:03:13 PM
^^^ If you could say with a straight face that you've never slept with someone who later "was not as they seemed" you may make this comment. If you've never slept with two or more different guys in a short period of time, you may make this comment.

Otherwise you're being hypocritical.

I've been guilty of both things when I was younger.

When people "grow up" they tend to make better choices. IMO if someone gets pregnant, married or not, at a very young age, they're being irresponsible.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 82
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 4:38:20 PM

Unless you don't know that you've been accused until after the child support companies start garnishing your wages. Courts send out a subpoena, but they send it to her house because she doesn't know his address. She throws away the subpoena. He never shows up to court. Now he has to pay child support. It happens.

That's a remote case that can be overturned if the guy proves....oh yeah, you find that inconvenient. Even when there's no court date, your employer gets the call/paperwork. Trust me, unless you really don't talk to your boss much, you'll see it coming and you can fight it. Unless of course you feel it's beneath you to prove yourself.

Because the argument against was "if you don't want to get pregnant, then don't have sex." You're saying something quite similar.

In that case, then yes I agree. Women do have the option to abort though, and in Roe v. Wade it was about who had the right to make that choice. As a father you don't get the choice to abort or not, so it's pretty black and white. I agree that BOTH genders should abstain from sex, get fixed or use a pretty good three layer process of BC if they don't want children. I'm one who went to the doctor as soon as I was legal to get this luggage I'm carrying removed, so you're preaching to the choir. In the end, BOTH are responsible for preventing pregnancy/STD's on their end. If it turns out there's a 200% wall of protection up, then I guess there won't be much chance of bad news.

If I go to a sporting event. I shouldn't be imprisoned because I was sitting next to the guy that decides to open fire on a bunch of people in the crowd. The only tie that I had with him is that we were at the same event.

I agree with the person who said you provided the bullets he uses. That's the only way your comparison would be valid. So I ask you, if you have bullets and a person has a gun and someone gets killed - are you saying it's not your fault that the three bullets you provided got used in that way? Uh huh. Without sperm, the egg does no harm. You throw sperm anywhere near eggs, and the outcome could be pregnancy. You took health class, right?

You sound like those people that try to sue McDonald's for making them fat. Where was that whole personal responsibility thing that you were talking about?

My point, Sparky, is this: there will always be someone out there trying to take advantage if there's room to do so. So while you interact with people in the world, you have to expect, anticipate and prevent yourself from becoming one that gets taken advantage of. Saying people shouldn't take advantage of others ain't worth a hill of beans and it won't protect you. Do you also leave your house and car unlocked because people shouldn't take what's not theirs? Of course not. Sure most don't steal but why would you leave yourself open for the person who does? If they do - you can't say you weren't part of the problem.

And I am of the utmost in responsibility and would never have a child (if I wanted one) unless I could take care of it on my own because I don't trust others to step up, and I won't ever depend on anyone else for most things in my life. So if I can't have a child alone, then I can't have one at all as far as I am concerned. People (in this case, men) are nice and a bonus, but I don't tend to make life plans around many...as the only person I know will stick things out in my life is myself. I also believe any woman who chooses to have a child with a man who doesn't want that child should have to deal with it on her own - but he's got to sign his rights to that child off if he truly wants no part of it.

Doesn't matter what I believe - the law is the law.

Simple age-old question. Would you rather see the innocent go to jail, or would you rather see the guilty go free?

I don't believe there are only two options in most cases, including this one - I also don't see that question as a valid response to this discussion, or a choice anyone will have to make.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 83
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 5:08:22 PM

If you could say with a straight face that you've never slept with someone who later "was not as they seemed" you may make this comment. If you've never slept with two or more different guys in a short period of time, you may make this comment.
Every man i have been involved with has presented himself as exactly what he was, nobody has ever put pretenses on. Who i choose is on me. Thats why i make a concerted effort to choose well, and have had the pleasure of wonderful men in my life.
I made a poor choice in my naive youth, thats on me and nobody else.
I dont blame that one for being who he is, nor do i blame the male gender.
If you choose scum dont be shocked when you turn out with scummy situation.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 84
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/9/2010 7:05:01 PM

Option C. She can pay for it, and if/when it's found not to be mine, she can pay my court costs and kick rocks.


I absolutely think that costs resulting from fraud of any kind should be born by the defrauder, but your words above are the exemplification of negating personal responsibility. Let's not forget that, more often than not (as a matter of fact, FAR more often than not), the named father who will agree to submit to a test (no matter who foots the bill) is shown to indeed be the father. By nothing more than biology, it is indeed a fact that the expense of questioning paternity is passed on to the man who denies paternity; so what? We pay in some fashion for every poor or questionable choice we make, don't we, and we do so regardless of our gender. Isn't that a by product of our freedoms? Wouldn't you rather lay out a few hundred now in order to save yourself thousands? Doesn't this seem, at its core, to be a rather silly & immature argument? If you have reason to question, get the test, chalk the expense up to experience, and get on with your life! If you are hell bent on not having to raise/support/bear/have a child, whether you are a man or a woman, then YOU make sure that it doesn't happen! Simple, if you ask me.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 85
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/10/2010 1:47:29 AM
That's a remote case that can be overturned if the guy proves....oh yeah, you find that inconvenient.

So far, that's only true in 10 states in the US. (not sure about Canada)



I agree with the person who said you provided the bullets he uses. That's the only way your comparison would be valid. So I ask you, if you have bullets and a person has a gun and someone gets killed

Actually it would be more along the lines of I gave the guy blanks, and the dude on the other side of the shooter gave him real bullets. My bullets didn't result in anyone's death, however I am still facing the consequences.


I also don't see that question as a valid response to this discussion, or a choice anyone will have to make.

"Innocent going to jail" - guy that has been falsely accused of paternity being forced to pay child support for a child that isn't his.

"Guilty set free" - real father not paying child support. Mother facing no penalty for falsely accusing.
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 86
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/10/2010 7:30:14 AM

The woman is being irresponsible, and so is the man.
Yeah, I meant to include men my statement about not being responsible. It takes two to tango, after all.

People my disagree with me, but I think, for example, that when two people are married at say age 22 and they make a baby or two, they're being irresponsible. Marriage or not.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 87
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 12/10/2010 9:54:06 AM

So far, that's only true in 10 states in the US. (not sure about Canada)

Look, I understand that the laws aren't always convenient, but there is no way you will end up paying large amounts of money without your consent or notification at SOME point. If you do learn about it and feel put out fighting it, then that's another issue. Not all subpoenas are given out to someone who has no clue it happened - in fact, most are personally delivered, so unless you throw it away yourself that's the end of that.

Actually it would be more along the lines of I gave the guy blanks, and the dude on the other side of the shooter gave him real bullets. My bullets didn't result in anyone's death, however I am still facing the consequences.

If you're shooting blanks and you have proof of it, how is this not a moot argument? And pregnancy isn't the same as murder (unless you like to be dramatic).

"Innocent going to jail" - guy that has been falsely accused of paternity being forced to pay child support for a child that isn't his.

"Guilty set free" - real father not paying child support. Mother facing no penalty for falsely accusing.

I still say there are never only two options. You may not like the other ones, but that doesn't dismiss the fact that they are there. You want to play, you may have to pay. That's the bottom line. If you're THAT worried about paying, don't play. Period. That goes for men AND women.
 Tigerbabygirl
Joined: 10/25/2010
Msg: 88
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/12/2011 2:26:28 PM
accidents do happen, but are they considered accidents the 2nd, 3rd, 4th time and on? Or just plain stupidity?

I can believe accidents happen, but one should be intelligent enough not to allow the same accident to continue happening... especially when it becomes several different men involved.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 89
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/12/2011 6:55:39 PM

Option C. She can pay for it, and if/when it's found not to be mine, she can pay my court costs and kick rocks.


Surely you are intelligent enough to realize that it works the way it does because, far more often than not, paternity is established as fact. Every time this comes up, we are left to argue about the minority; the deceptive, rotten human beings that surely exist equally in both genders. Men are responsible to pay for the test because when they deny paternity, 70% of the time they are proven to be fathers. It really is that simple, from a legal standpoint.

It's not about pitting men against women, and it always shocks me how readily people go off on the opposite sex as if this isn't a DATING site. It's about one's level of desire not to be a parent. If you are dead set against impregnating someone., or becoming pregnant, the responsibility to avoid doing so falls on you, period. Of course, each individual decides in whom to place their trust, and to what degree they do so, but that is part & parcel of making choices, taking responsibility, consequences, etc. We have to deal with it, that's all.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 90
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/12/2011 11:58:36 PM

Granted that yes most were true but how often women like to forget about how many of those pregnancies were caused by stupidity or deception on the woman's part.
Be it that they were told by a doctor that pregnancy was unlikely and decided to forego BC. Better yet when told of their chances selectively heard impossible as opposed to improbable.
Or the many who assumed that getting pregnant was a surefire way to keep a man in a failing relationship.
Or spent more time trying to figure out which company had the best cell phone plan for unlimited texting as opposed to which birth control method was best suited to them.
Anyway I'll take the 30%, thanks for the concession.


I vaguely remember hearing about these 2 amazing products on the market, called condoms and nonoxynl-9 (sperm killer). Men can use these wondeful yet unheard of products if he dosnt fully trust that his woman cant have kids, or weather her birth control will fail or not. I dont believe that hormonal birth control fails as often as women claim it does, but making the decision to have or not have kids is a HUGE decision, and if you leave that decision in the hands of someone else, dont be surprised when a decision is made that you never wanted. In my world thats just street-wise common sense.
Then theres always extreme measures, like vastectomy, or being particular about where you jizz.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 91
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 9:51:16 AM

If you are dead set against impregnating someone., or becoming pregnant, the responsibility to avoid doing so falls on you, period.

Exactly. If you really don't want a child, you won't have a child - one way or the other. If you end up parenting a child biologically - in almost all cases - you dropped the ball and that's what caused it.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 92
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 7:15:00 PM

Sure I'll give you the 70% percent because of how often you would claim that 30% percent was merely fiction based on previous debates(?) Funny how that number now only seems liable when you need it for your own but we don't wish to bring up old posts now do we, " whybother".

But let's us take a good look at that 70%.

Granted that yes most were true but how often women like to forget about how many of those pregnancies were caused by stupidity or deception on the woman's part.
Be it that they were told by a doctor that pregnancy was unlikely and decided to forego BC. Better yet when told of their chances selectively heard impossible as opposed to improbable.
Or the many who assumed that getting pregnant was a surefire way to keep a man in a failing relationship.
Or spent more time trying to figure out which company had the best cell phone plan for unlimited texting as opposed to which birth control method was best suited to them.
Anyway I'll take the 30%, thanks for the concession.


The percentage is not mine; it originated from another poster in an effort to show that the number of deceptive women merits a change in statute, if you recall. I didn't say it was "fiction", only refuted that it was majority, and it is not (30% is most certainly not a majority, in any sense of the word). I have never defended those women who deceive, but the truth is, legislation is passed based on majority, and the majority of women, according to this particular statistic, are not lying. As you well know, I am not a big fan of statistics, as they can be used from any angle. Interpretation leads to subjective statements, no matter how it is slanted.
You grant that this true, then proceed to call out the evil women. There are men who are simply too lazy to take responsibility for birth control, men who lie about fertility, men who refuse to take responsibility for their offspring, too. Those women who bear their children suffer as well. Neither is right, but, as far as determining on a legal basis who lays out the cash for a paternity test, the stats are relevant. As far as I am concerned, the cost should be borne by the party proven wrong, whether their error was intentional or not, but I don't make the laws. That aspect is not, however, the topic of this discussion. I remain steadfast in my contention that the onus is on each of us, to the degree we wish not to become responsible, financially or otherwise, for the life of another, to prevent it from happening. That doesn't seem to me to be such a difficult concept to grasp, nor is it gender specific, and frankly, I have yet to see a logical argument made refuting it, certainly not the stupidity & deception on the part of both parties equally, which is likely closer to the truth in most instances.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 93
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 8:09:18 PM

Why should only one sex have the only opt out because of stupidity/neglect/laziness clause?


"Blah blah blah biology blah blah blah." And we are huge advocates for not leveling the playing field because of things that we're born with(out). Derka Derka



Unless you'd like to concede that all women who got pregnant by accident were merely victims of a shrewd con and can't be held responsible.

Even if the man -was- deceitful, she still has an exit strategy.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 94
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 8:33:25 PM
Why would anyone think that the playing field should be level at all? Deal with the reality. btw, there does not exist an exit strategy for many. Simply being legal does not make abortion an option for many. There are advantages & disadvantages to nearly every aspect of our lives: our height, weight, IQ, gender, etc. Why should the playing field be level at all? It is not. Decisions based in reality are most often the wisest. The strongest among us is the one who is cognizant & accepting of their greatest weakness, whatever it may be. Time to take on some personal responsibility; this is not a gender specific discussion, it is specific to the individual, regardless of the field on which they "play".
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 95
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 8:41:59 PM

If you want to level your playing field because you feel screwed over by biology, there's an operation for that. Derka Derka

There are plenty of sexually active men that want kids -eventually-, and don't want some woman pressing the fast-forward button. Or do you want to be yet another person wants to take the Roe v Wade argument of, "If you don't want kids, then don't have sex" that was used against women and just pit it against men?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 96
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 9:23:04 PM

You'd like us to think that having the option of not becoming a parent is akin to changing one's hair colour or putting lifts in one's shoes is pretty weak.
This is the extreme gender discussion.


Quite wrong. I'd like "us" to realize that the prevention of becoming a parent, to the one who so vehemently does not want to do so, is akin to doing whatever it takes to save your life.

{quote]I've had a vasectomy so I have taken precaution but not because of doing the right thing but out of fear of being taken to the cleaners for the second time because no matter how you slice it or attempt to justify it, men are being held to the whims of the female gender under the guise of "taking responsibility" for one's actions.

Certain men are held to the whim of the woman with whom they chose to lay. Should those men not be held to the same standard as the women you describe thusly?:


As far as playing student I imagine Tealwood was more likely refering to those divorced women when forced to face the facts realize that getting a proper education was something that should have happened before childbirth not after.
Also when you look at the most common situations for most men the idea of returning to school is wishful thinking when they are most likely the ones who are paying for her lifestyle. I doubt very much that men would be allowed to work part time and reduce their support payments for three to six years


Those who erred by not opting for higher education prior to having children are held to a higher degree of responsibility than the one who chooses as a partner someone who is less than honest? They should not be "allowed" to attempt to better their lives? Would that make things better, really?

It seems apparent to me why you deem this "the extreme gender discussion".
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 97
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/13/2011 11:19:30 PM

Why would anyone think that the playing field should be level at all? Deal with the reality....There are advantages & disadvantages to nearly every aspect of our lives.


That is acquiescence with suggesting that we get rid of programs like, student grants, welfare, and WIC. These are all things that are government funded and they level the playing field. But to hell with those people too, right? They should play with the cards they are dealt and not be able to seek outside assistance.

Of course, then you follow up with this statement:


Those who erred by not opting for higher education prior to having children are held to a higher degree of responsibility than the one who chooses as a partner someone who is less than honest? They should not be "allowed" to attempt to better their lives?


Based on the logic of your first post, no they shouldn't. Social Darwinism all the way!!!




Sure but you still haven't given men the same opt out clause regardless of accidental pregnancy.

Yep, they're still throwing out the pre-conception red herring when it's the post-conception argument that is being pressed. So much for that whole "logic" thing.

I'm also curious to see where those condom/BCP effectiveness stats came from. All of the research I've read states that condoms are the least effective form of BC (looking at typical use), and yet it's all that men have access to.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 98
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/14/2011 12:00:06 AM

As far as the amazing products known as condoms and spermicide go, there are just as many women who prefer natural sex without some piece of latex as there are men.


Nobody can force anyone, unless it is rape, to have sex with a woman without a condom. Sure there are women who like it, but you dont have to oblige her.
I would only have sex with a man without a condom and nonoxynl-9, if i was not prepared t emotionally and financially raise a child in the event of my birth control failing, or i wanted to get pregnant.
A man is certainly competent and capable of being responsible for protection.

I had an unplanned child in my youth. I dont whine and play victim about it, i just decided to make better choices.


You ladies are the gate keepers are you not?
Yes, i am the gatekeeper of my vagina, just as men are the gatekeepers of their penises and sperm.


And I can most assuredly say that if a woman said to any man that you're not putting that inside me without a wrapper, he would bolting down to the nearest 7-11/pub washroom/shopper drug mart to get one yet even with all that you still get an escape clause just in case
A smart man would have that stuff pre-stocked in his medicine cabinet.


Unless you'd like to concede that all women who got pregnant by accident were merely victims of a shrewd con and can't be held responsible.
Nope.
Every individual, regardless of gender, race, religion, and creed, is responsible for taking care of themselves, especially when it comes to important things such as having children. Why leave the choice in someones else's hands.
I choose to use birth control when i am not in the mood to have another baby.
If my man wants to raw-dog, he is informed of the fact that if a baby occurs, i will keep and raise the child, so if he wants a night of skin on skin romance, that is a chance he takes.
Why wouldnt a man do the same? Why would you leave such a huge decision in the hands of women, whom you obviously have trust issues with?
Why would you let a gender you dont trust, to hold the cards in weather you will be a father, or not?

While biology and the lack of "opt-out" laws in place for men who dont want to care for their unplanned children may be unfair, any person that has a 5th grade education is aware that women are the ones that have a choice after a pregnancy occurs. So why GO THERE? Why put yourself in that position of a woman carrying a child you dont want?
If you deem women untrustworthy and out to get men and pop out their babies, why would you not be advocating to every man out there to wrap it up, buy nonoxynl-9 by the case, or get it snipped?
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 99
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What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/14/2011 8:35:14 AM
This entire argument is based on a desire for less accountability one's own actions.

Yeah, just WIC or getting a student grant. Not wanting to have to pay [as much] for those children or that education all by one's self.


Do you honestly think there's even a shred of dignity or respectability in the concept that other human beings should be forced to bear these burdens because you felt like getting laid, and simply didn't feel like taking any precautions in doing so?

This is congruent with the women that are siring these children when they are not in the financial position to raise them. But at least the gub'ment will throw money at them for their choices, right? Just so long as they hide behind the "best interest of the child" argument, it's just fine and dandy.



Men don't sit around and whine and complain about how unfair things are. They face reality, and accept it as such. They figure out how to work with what they've got, to create what they want.

If women didn't complain about how unfair thing are, we wouldn't have had a women's rights movement. Or should we just ignore those few years in history?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 100
What kind of woman has or chooses to keep a child knowing that they won't have a father?
Posted: 1/14/2011 9:46:19 AM
If you don't want to have a child - make sure you cover your end of the deal. A child is born to TWO parents who made that choice (even if that choice was born out of complacency or laziness) barring forced unprotected sex.

If you don't want to be responsible for a child, don't do anything that would put you in a place where you'd have to be.

If you are a guy who is worried about someone coming after you for a kid, don't father a kid. Do whatever you have to do to prevent a pregnancy from occuring - including getting a vasectomy, using condoms, avoiding sex. That's YOUR responsibility to see that YOU aren't on the other end of someone getting pregnant.

By the same token, if you are a woman who doesn't want to get pregnant and end up stuck with a kid, do whatever you need to do to prevent that. Get spayed, use birth control, abstain from sex and don't ever plan to have any child if you have to depend on anyone else to help you (including men, the government, family). All that should be nice but never factored into the choice to concieve. It's irrelevant that a woman has the option to adopt or abort - if anything that should be a plus for you if a woman you slept with and knocked up can do that and has chosen to.

If a man or woman gets together with the opposite sex and one of them is irresponsible, the child can still be avoided if the other is REALLY trying to avoid pregnancy. If both are trying, then it's twice the likelihood that it won't happen. It takes two to create a child, so if you plan to participate in sex with the opposite gender, you can only control YOUR end of things. Like driving on the road and being defensive another driver who's reckless can harm you, you must be defensive when having sex that you don't end up with an STD or a child. It might not be a real mood enhancer, but too bad. It's the way it is.

If you go into it hoping the other person has your best interest, you're being foolish. Sorry.

All else is hot air.
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