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 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 71
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A great day for AmericaPage 2 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
One giant leap toward socialism
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 72
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:00:26 PM

The USA is the only country in the world that allows a profit for the Insurance companies on basic health care.

The only thing that will lower price will be a Public option.

And this is what I believe why many of the people who are proponents of a public option, they either don't trust or don't understand how commercial enterprises [should] operate. Believing that someone shouldn't profit for services rendered is basically denouncing the very thing which allowed this country to grow and flourish.

These companies are making a ton because of the superfluous administrative activities folded into the cost of services. It's similar to how our Federal government operates which makes the situation laughably ironic. People want a government provided solution because of their lack of trust of "big business" while not realizing that the US Government is one of the worst run corporations in the world.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 73
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:10:20 PM

Anyone in America has the right to buy healthcare insurance

Well, as long as they have big bucks, live in the right state, and have NO "preexisting medical conditions" . . . .

As for the 70% who don't want this bill. Couldn't find it. Did find this:


A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that 59 percent of those surveyed opposed the bill, and 39 percent favored it. All of the interviews were conducted before the House voted Sunday night, but the contents of the bill were widely known.

. . . . [however]

The CNN poll also suggests that public opposition to health care will not necessarily be a boon to Republicans in the 2010 midterm elections in Congress.

Roughly one in five of respondents who said they opposed the bill did so because it was not liberal enough, and those people are unlikely to vote Republican. Take them out of the picture and opposition to the bill because it is too liberal is 43 percent. [my emphasis]


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/22/cnn-poll-americans-dont-like-health-care-bill/?fbid=51ba6LN8wjQ

Personally, I'm delighted. Now they can get down to making it better. . . .

 Legal sized fish
Joined: 11/16/2009
Msg: 74
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:29:20 PM
Yeah if its so great why was it pushed ahead so quickly?

Why is congress exempt from this plan?

Why did Canada's head muckety muck come to the USA for medical care?

Does anyone think that this massive undertaking will be free of waste, graft and corruption?
 calisto04
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 75
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:30:57 PM


If we had to please everyone, no bills would ever get passed.

Yeah, guess that's why the only bipartisan part of this bill, is those who are against it.



Aren't there are at least 200 Republican amendments in the bill?
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 76
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:34:36 PM

Sydneymale,pardon me if i have no desire to live in a country that is like the places you mentioned...including and especialy Australia.I think i'll visit the Australian forums and see if there are alot of Americans there concerning themselves with what goes on in Australia and telling Australians how they can be more like everybody else.

This is not an exclusively American forum, anybody from around the world can comment on any thread on here.

You made a blanket statement that the only capitalist systems are capable of medical breakthroughs and miracles, which is simply not true.

We have plenty of problems in my country, and the health care system isn't perfect, but anybody who needs to be treated gets treated, and they don't have to go bankrupt when they do.
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 77
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:40:39 PM
And likewise people are treated here and the cost are passed on to others...makes it "fair" i guess.I'm sure you have plenty of problems in your country...how many Americans are there telling you what to do about them ? certainly not this one because it's none of my business.I will ask you this,El Nino at the top of the page ask why the congress,and the senate to i suppose,is exempt from this plan...i'm sure Obama and his family is as well...why are all of these great leaders not joing in this great plan for the people ?
 tinkerbellcgy
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 79
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:50:48 PM

Why did Canada's head muckety muck come to the USA for medical care?

That's just too funny. Thanks for the chuckle and thanks also for showing how uneducated you are about countries other than your own. Let me assure you that Danny Williams is not "Canada's head muckety muck ". Perhaps you might also want to do a little research as to why this supposed "head muckety muck of Canada" chose to go to the USA for his heart surgery. It's really no surprise what education will do for a person's credibility.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 81
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 5:53:06 PM
^^^Polls indicate that a majority of people didn't want this health care bill passed though. While polls can be flawed, I doubt that they're all wrong, and even factoring in a margin of error they still show that American's are agaisnt it.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 83
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 6:05:40 PM
"And likewise people are treated here and the cost are passed on to others...makes it "fair" i guess.I'm sure you have plenty of problems in your country...how many Americans are there telling you what to do about them ? certainly not this one because it's none of my business.I will ask you this,El Nino at the top of the page ask why the congress,and the senate to i suppose,is exempt from this plan...i'm sure Obama and his family is as well...why are all of these great leaders not joing in this great plan for the people ?"

Unfortunately, our biggest exports seem to have become really stupid ideas or bad culture. Religion and politics, Xian talibans. "pro-life" warmongers and minority death
penalty lovers, 3 strikes apartheid, flexible 'terrorism" labels, etc....
Many European and other cultures around the world have come to terms with morality in this realm. The debate in the US has degenerated into covert racsism, the fear of non-white births in the US, surpassing the former apartheid majority. Karma is a big sucky thing to many.

Like much of Europe, Canada, Australia, the US and other former colonizers, the underlying theme comes down to a changing world, changing values, consistency of professed values, and digging down deep to come to terms with the real meaning of words.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 84
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 6:13:17 PM
I think you miss the point... ALL other counties with private insurance DO NOT allow profit from basic health care.

No, I understood what you meant. I feel that anyone who infringes on anyone's ability to make a profit is enforcing a type of indentured servitude. The US Government already helps b@stardize Capitalism by allowing lobbyist and special interests groups (such as the pharmaceutical industry) to persuade them that direct competition would not be beneficial to them or public. In the end we end up with bloated bills sustaining bad corporate practices who in turn help sustain a bloated government.

Consider this, is it right for the government to place a fine on people if they don't purchase insurance? Guess what, it's in the bill. A person who doesn't believe in nor use the medical system can be fined by the government up to 2.5% of their income if they don't purchase insurance.

You don't like companies profiting from healthcare services rendered? What do you think about a government penalizing people who don't want the services at all?
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 86
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 6:26:06 PM
Earthpuppy,quit hating yourself and your race and seeing racism under every rock and around every corner...it's all you ever talk about and all you ever see in anything...with statments like "apartheid majority" you are realy slipping
 Legal sized fish
Joined: 11/16/2009
Msg: 88
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:14:03 PM
More cosmetic greater risk heart surgery?

I didnt realize heart surgery had a cosmetic aspect.


Again, with a heart surgery, why did he come to the USA to have it done? I mean look at stats mentioned earlier, With Canada's system being so awesome why not have it done there?
 calisto04
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 90
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:26:46 PM

Problem is the status quo already had a huge shortage of Health Care Personnel and Facilities, in fact we are not the only country with a shortage of Health Care Personnel and Facilities.
There is no shortage of "Health Care Personnel". Down here in Florida there is definitely an abundance of people who have been out of work who could pick up all kinds of work. In fact they would be ever so grateful to have the work.

Currently there isn't enough facilities to train said people that want to go into the Health Care Field, nor enough people who want to go into the Health Care Field if there were the facilities to train them in.
There are more than enough facilities and schools to train any number of people. Enrollment is down for many reasons. People can't afford to pay tuition, people are working 16 hours a day for poverty wages in order to support their families.

Currently in many areas of America many who have to insurance , even top of the line insurance ,are not able to secure a primary care physical due to a drastic shortage of Physicians and physician assistants.
There are no shortages of physicians, just many who have had to go out of business for lack of patients because people are no longer going to the doctor for preventative care because it costs too much if they don't have insurance.

Currently wait time in emergency rooms can be 8 hrs or more in some areas, even if you have insurance or even top of the line insurance.
Only because they have to process everyone who walks through the door, triage them and send them to the appropriate treatment area. If you are not there for a true emergency, yes it will take much longer as that treatment area is taxed out to the max with way too many patients who could have been seen by their primary care physician if only they would have had health benefits.

Kind of curious where we are going to magically get all these new Health Care facilities.
There are thousands of them standing empty now. They are left over from all the facilities that had to shut down due to lack of patients.

If they can build enough new facilities where are they going to get the Health Care people to man them.
Put an ad in the paper and just watch the people line up for a job.

Wouldn't it have been a good idea to fixed that problem first....
It would only be a matter of a few days to get staff and about one month to get the facility. One just has to contact the landlords who own the empty buildings. Is that fast enough?
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 91
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:35:25 PM
Well racism isn't under every rock and around every corner but......

Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress
First Posted: 03-20-10 04:56 PM | Updated: 03-20-10 09:00 PM





Preceding the president's speech to a gathering of House Democrats, thousands of protesters descended around the Capitol to protest the passage of health care reform. The gathering quickly turned into abusive heckling, as members of Congress passing through Longworth House office building were subjected to epithets and even mild physical abuse.

A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a 'ni--er.' And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a "faggot," as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president's speech, shrugged off the incident.

But Clyburn was downright incredulous, saying he had not witnessed such treatment since he was leading civil rights protests in South Carolina in the 1960s.

"It was absolutely shocking to me," Clyburn said, in response to a question from the Huffington Post. "Last Monday, this past Monday, I stayed home to meet on the campus of Claflin University where fifty years ago as of last Monday... I led the first demonstrations in South Carolina, the sit ins... And quite frankly I heard some things today I have not heard since that day. I heard people saying things that I have not heard since March 15, 1960 when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus."

"It doesn't make me nervous as all," the congressman said, when asked how the mob-like atmosphere made him feel. "In fact, as I said to one heckler, I am the hardest person in the world to intimidate, so they better go somewhere else."

Asked if he wanted an apology from the group of Republican lawmakers who had addressed the crowd and, in many ways, played on their worst fears of health care legislation, the Democratic Party, and the president, Clyburn replied:

Story continues below "A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care... it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

UPDATE 6:55 PM ET: Rep. Emanuel Cleaver's office released the following statement:

For many of the members of the CBC, like John Lewis and Emanuel Cleaver who worked in the civil rights movement, and for Mr. Frank who has struggled in the cause of equality, this is not the first time they have been spit on during turbulent times.

This afternoon, the Congressman was walking into the Capitol to vote, when one protester spat on him. The Congressman would like to thank the US Capitol Police officer who quickly escorted the others Members and him into the Capitol, and defused the tense situation with professionalism and care. After all the Members were safe, a full report was taken and the matter was handled by the US Capitol Police. The man who spat on the Congressman was arrested, but the Congressman has chosen not to press charges. He has left the matter with the Capitol Police.

This is not the first time the Congressman has been called the "n" word and certainly not the worst assault he has endured in his years fighting for equal rights for all Americans. That being said, he is disappointed that in the 21st century our national discourse has devolved to the point of name calling and spitting. He looks forward to taking a historic vote on health care reform legislation tomorrow, for the residents of the Fifth District of Missouri and for all Americans. He believes deeply that tomorrow's vote is, in fact, a vote for equality and to secure health care as a right for all. Our nation has a history of struggling each time we expand rights. Today's protests are no different, but the Congressman believes this is worth fighting for.


UPDATE 7:48 PM ET: The Buffalo News reports that Rep. Louise Slaughter's district office in Pine View, New York, was vandalized on Saturday.

Sometime early this morning, someone threw a brick through the front window of her Pine Avenue office.

The damage was discovered about 12:30 a.m., city police said.

The brick put a hole in the outer-most window at the office at 1910 Pine Ave., but did not damage a second interior window, police reported. A piece of broken brick believed to have caused the damage was found at the scene.

Damage was estimated at $350.


UPDATE 8:57 PM ET: The Associated Press reports that Capitol Police arrested the man who spit on Cleaver, but the Congressman won't press charges.


These people are clearly Insane!
 komodo
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 93
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:54:28 PM
Having lived on both sides of the boarder all I can say is that this will be very interesting to watch. The Democrats will "spin" it their way and the Republicans will "spin" it theirs. Numbers can say anything if, one, you only poll the "right" people or, two, you make them up. The spin doctors will be employed for years. Finally, a reality TV show worth watching!

Just think of the skits from Rush & Jon Stewart we can look forward to

Let the games begin
 komodo
Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 95
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 7:56:18 PM

Why did Canada's head muckety muck come to the USA for medical care?

check your facts - he wasn't
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 96
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:00:15 PM

Eliminating profit eliminates the incentive to excel. I shudder to think of doctors as government employees.

Uh, they'd be just like the doctors you find in any hospital. They don't exactly work on a commission basis, you know.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 97
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:03:14 PM

Uh, they'd be just like the doctors you find in any hospital. They don't exactly work on a commission basis, you know.


Please don't forget all of the "awful doctor's" in the military.Hmm aren't they government employees.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 99
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:12:47 PM
Even with a single payer system (which this isn't) there is always a profit motive. Doctors are paid on a fee-for-service basis.

There was a good article in the New Yorker a couple of months ago about the town in America with the highest per capita costs. It is in an economically depressed area of Texas and is served by three hospitals with lots of high tech equipment. Because everything is paid by Medicare or Medicaid anybody who goes in for a boo-boo gets at least $50,000 worth of tests.

Here, the hospitals are owned and operated by the Provincial governments, so there isn't an incentive to overbill.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 101
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:29:55 PM
People forget to thank their respective gods and godesses that the US did not pass a Mental Health Care Bill. Talk about bankruptcy....
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 102
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 8:44:25 PM

Righties are certain that America is doomed. They are more certain that the “Democrat” party is doomed in November. All they have to do is run against Obamacare, they say, and The People will flock to the polls to vote for Republicans.

Here are the terrible hardships that health care reform will place on the American people in the next six months, or between now and the November elections.

For people who already are in group insurance plans through their employers:

* They are protected from being dumped by their insurers if they get sick.
* Lifetime limits on coverage are suspended.
* People can keep their children on their policies through the age of 26.
* Insurers cannot refuse to insure children because of “pre-existing conditions.”
* Policy premiums will not change on account of HCR.

Medicare recipients:

* Get a free annual checkup.
* Can skip co-pays and deductibles on many preventive care services.
* Seniors who have fallen into the Medicare D “doughnut hole” will get a $250 rebate check in a few weeks.

The above are what Republicans will be running against. They’re going to continue to raise the alarm about provisions going into effect down the road, but the way they’ve been going on one might have expected tanks in the street today.

I’ve been reading reactions on comment threads here and there, and lots of people expect their health care premiums to double or triple right away and their taxes to go up to pay for the “entitlement.” Will they notice when these things don’t happen? Some of them won’t, of course, like the tea baggers who keep screaming about phantom tax increases. But a substantial percentage of people who are queasy about what’s going to happen next will be reassured when the sky doesn’t fall.

I also saw comments from people who claimed to be small business owners who believed the bill requires them to insure their employees and feared this would put them out of business. But the law has no such requirement. All they will get are dreadful tax credits to insure their employees if they choose to.

On top of that, there will be some immediate help for people who don’t have insurance now. Medicaid is expanded, some small business owners will get a tax credit to offset the cost of insuring employees, and some state high-risk pools will receive subsidies that should enable them to offer coverage to the “pre-existing condtion” crowd at lower rates. Combined with all the young folks who will be able to stay on their parents’ insurance awhile longer, by November there should be more insured people in America. How many I can’t say, but more.

One never went broke betting on the ignorance of the American public, but there’s one other dynamic you can count on — the “Greater ***hole” rule of public demonstrations. The rule is that in the eternal struggle between public demonstrators and The Establishment, public sympathy turns against whichever side is the Greater ***hole. Well, all this past weekend the Right pretty much went off the ***hole scale. I doubt they’re going to let up.

It’s too early to make predictions about November, but in the near future I expect some movement upward in public support for President Obama, Democrats in Congress and health care reform.

http://www.mahablog.com/

Maha is one of the more informed careful bloggers I follow. She's very seldom wrong (IMNSHO).

 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 108
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/22/2010 9:50:18 PM
Stop referencing Canada for your anti-Healthcare bill and socialism propaganda, it's ridiculous, Canada is a democratic country with elected federal and provincial officials to represent it's citizens. Yes we have universal healthcare and I for one am very glad I do. Yes our system isn't perfect but it's comforting to know that if I get sick I can get the treatments I need without some penny pusher in an Insurance company deciding my options for me. My father can't get travel insurance because of his previous health history, relying on health insurance companies would be a death sentence if he lived in the US and not in Canada, because of the wonderful doctors and nurses in the cardiac ward in Kingston, he has a new pacemaker and is back to his old self.
I live in Windsor and yes we send patients across the border for treatment in order to lower their wait time, I think that is just being efficient and sometimes you have to go where the equipment/specialists are. This is also an example at how flexible a system can be to accomadate it's patients needs, we still have to choice to seek out other options if we want to.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 114
A great day for America
Posted: 3/23/2010 3:26:38 AM

The coalition supports efforts to enable everyone in the US to receive the health care they need, but objects to meeting America's health care needs at the expense of developing countries,

I assume the coalition is from outside America so I don't blame them for making their plea but come on, a nation should take care of its own people first and then help others.


I just watched on the late night news here that some people are extremely peeved off about the new health reform in the states- why is that?!

It's because there was so much ridiculous squabbling that what started as a good idea (universal health care) got muddied down into mandatory health care *insurance* which would be subsidized for low-income citizens. So the only people who will really benefit from this are the lower class and certain people with pre-existing ailments. I'm holding out slight hope that we'll eventually make our way to universal health care.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 115
A great day for America
Posted: 3/23/2010 3:38:52 AM


Sydneymale,pardon me if i have no desire to live in a country that is like the places you mentioned...including and especialy Australia.I think i'll visit the Australian forums and see if there are alot of Americans there concerning themselves with what goes on in Australia and telling Australians how they can be more like everybody else.

I seem to remember something about a fried chicken advertisement on Australian television that Americans objected to so much it was pulled. Pot calling kettle black? Americans don't tell other people how to live, think? Tunnel vision perhaps?

I remember that one. The advertisement in question had an Australian spectator sitting amongst a bunch of West Indian spectators at the cricket eating KFC chicken(The Calypso's toured Australia last summer). Every Australian viewer understood the point of the commercial. It made it on to YouTube and KFC headquarters had it 'pulled' because Americans said it was racist, which it was not. It was a case of US racial sensibilties being imprinted on another culture.

There was also a time when the US studios controlled all theatres and film distribution in Australia. As a result there was no Australian film industry and distribution. Australian stories were just not told. Even movies filmed in Australia were made by Americans and Poms. All this changed in 1972 with the tremendous social reforms of the Whitlam government, which included the revival of our own film industry, universal health care and the removal of troops from Vietnam amongst other things.
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