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 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 236
A great day for AmericaPage 5 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)

I pay for it. PERSONALLY....with funds I EARNED.

And now you get to pay for everyone else's too... Oh, wait, you're already doing that... Well, we'll give you a special deal and let you pay more for the privilege of keeping your "wonderful insurance"... That way, even the poor folks can have their internationally recognized human right to medical care... We all have to do our part after all... You don't mind, do you, comrade...?
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 244
A great day for America
Posted: 3/24/2010 9:08:18 PM

Why do people here keep saying they will have to pay for everyone else's
health insurence as well as their own?

Did they read somewhere that they will have to pay more for the same
insurence they now have? Or are they assuming that they will have to?

The head of Health and Human Services said last night on Larry King Live
that the only people who may have higher taxes are the very wealthy.


I don't know. You tell me. I mean, you are the one who made this statement, and well, the tax payer does fund this type of health insurance.

{quote]Now we will all have the same benefits the Senators and Congressmen have.
Health insurence should be for everyone, not the priveledged class only.

Honestly, I have several thoughts on the thing.

1.) Is health Care a right or a privilege?

2.) If the bill is so good, why does it only work to cover less than an additional 10% of the population?

3.) Instead of levying a fine against people and forcing them to buy health insurance, why not give them an incentive to have health insurance, like a tax credit or something like that. If you have health insurance, you get rewarded. If you don't, then you don't get a rewarded.

4.) Being in the industry I work in, I am still convinced that the current health care act will cost myself and several of my colleagues our jobs. But that is ok, because apparently, once I lose my job, I get free health care. And then I get free food, and a free cell phone, and free money. Hey, I guess there is a silver lining here for this entire Health Care reform thing. I get everything I want for free and get to sit at home and just watch all the others out there work and support me. Thank, President Obama, for making it possible for me to live off the lamb and spend every minute of every day with my kids. You've proven to me that you stand for family values, whether you mean to or not.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 245
A great day for America
Posted: 3/24/2010 9:28:48 PM
Why do people here keep saying they will have to pay for everyone else's
health insurence as well as their own?

Did they read somewhere that they will have to pay more for the same
insurence they now have? Or are they assuming that they will have to?

The head of Health and Human Services said last night on Larry King Live
that the only people who may have higher taxes are the very wealthy.

Actually in addition to the wealthy, people who normally pay for health care without using insurance will be taxed, small business owners will pay more in taxes as well as raise in the amount of taxes paid on profits from investments.

From AOL News are 18 Myths about Health Care. I quoted Myths 2-4, 7,11, 15, 18 since relate to insurance costs, especially individual insurance costs.

Thank heaven someone else has actually read the bill.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 249
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/24/2010 10:37:19 PM

Still don't know what you're talking about. Private medical care remains all that Americans have. This legislation does nothing to change that



Actually, people who choose to pay out of pocket and bypass buying insurance will get fined by having to pay an extra tax for not having insurance. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?


Okay, I get how it works. But let's say you get sick and go to the hospital and you're not happy with the care you're getting or the three month wait you have before you can get an mri, chemo, blood work, whatever. My question is this, will rich people who pay their insurance be able to say "F'ck this, I'm going to the Mayo Clinic (or some other specialized hospital,clinic, or private practice) and paying them a couple million bucks to take care of my wonky right knee now so that it doesn't permanently damage my left hip while I wait six months for my universal health care surgery." Will people have an option to pay out of pocket for a higher level of care or are they stuck with universal care? Will "private" health care providers....providers who do not deal with insurance companies and exist only to cater to the Gucci clients who want top shelf health care be allowed to operate in your country?


It probably won't improve wait times - which are still roughly three times longer than in Canada, look it up for yourself if you don't believe me. These statistics are easy to find; both our governments track them and they are reported on quite regularly.


Maybe you could show me these facts because everywhere I look this is just not the case. Here are a few sources that I'm sure you can trash.


There is no systemized collection of data on wait times in the U.S. That makes it difficult to draw comparisons with countries that have national health systems, Business Week , July 2009


So they don't track these stats in the US. It would be hard since there is no standardized system for collecting data since there is no standardized system for administering care.


The Commonwealth survey did find that U.S. patients had the second-shortest wait times if they wished to see a specialist or have nonemergency surgery, such as a hip replacement or cataract operation (Germany, which has national health care, came in first on both measures). Business Week, July 2009



Fact No. 6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long - sometimes more than a year - to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer. NCPA "Ten Surprising facts About American Health Care"


The best reference is from US News, a report called "Statistics Show Canadian Health Care is inferior to American System" by Peter Roff from July 2009. This one has charts that show Canada's wait times are longer.

I tried honestly to find something that says median medical wait times are three times longer in the States than in Canada but I can't find anything of the sort any where. I still don't think there's any such thing as a median medical wait time that covers everything because there are so many different types of care. Some places in the states have longer wait times than others, but three times longer on average everywhere is just not true.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 250
A great day for America
Posted: 3/24/2010 10:41:34 PM
The Health Care bill has the LARGEST Small Business tax cuts ever.


For the most part these will have little effect on small business. Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will be exempt from the mandate, though it is expected that many companies will try to offer it for two reasons:
• The exchanges should create a more affordable option than is available now.

• The plethora of new tax breaks and credits written into the law as incentives.

The "plethora" of tax breaks is really a 50% tax credit. Half sounds good but that's only half; the business has to come up with the other half for each of their employees or they would be subject to the penalties described in part two, section 4980H of the "Reconciliation Act of 2010" published presented from Mr. Spratt from Committee on the Budget on March 17, 2010.


EXCISE TAX WITH RESPECT TO FAILURE TO MEET HEALTH COVERAGE PARTICIPATION REQUIREMENTS. --

"(1) IN GENERAL. -- In the case of any employer who fails (during any period with respect to which the election under subsection (a) is in effect) to satisfy the health coverage participation requirement with respect to any employee to whom such election applies, their is hereby imposed on each such failure with respect to each such employee a tax of $100 for each day in the period beginning on the date such failure first occurs and ending on the date such failure is corrected."


Given that the definition of a small business is an entity with up to 500 employees, that could add up to a sizable expenditure depending on the number of employees even with the tax break. Kinda like being forced to purchase a $1,700,000 Bugatti Veyron and getting a 50% tax break. You still have to come with the entire amount up front and at the end of the year you'll get $850,000 back.

Even with such a great deal, what if you don't have enough money for the up front expense? The very people who would give you the credit will subject you to a fine which compounds daily until you come up with the money. Sounds a lot like an episode from The Sopranos," doesn't it?
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 251
A great day for America
Posted: 3/24/2010 10:47:11 PM

Okay, I get how it works. But let's say you get sick and go to the hospital and you're not happy with the care you're getting or the three month wait you have before you can get an mri, chemo, blood work, whatever. My question is this, will rich people who pay their insurance be able to say "F'ck this, I'm going to the Mayo Clinic (or some other specialized hospital,clinic, or private practice) and paying them a couple million bucks to take care of my wonky right knee now so that it doesn't permanently damage my left hip while I wait six months for my universal health care surgery." Will people have an option to pay out of pocket for a higher level of care or are they stuck with universal care? Will "private" health care providers....providers who do not deal with insurance companies and exist only to cater to the Gucci clients who want top shelf health care be allowed to operate in your country?

This (spending cash) doesn't usually happen or is understood by a lot of Americans; credit is the way of life nowadays. Yes, a person could pay cash if they wanted to BUT if they did not have insurance too, they would be taxed up to 2.5% of their gross income as a government fine. Basically, even if you wanted to pay for it yourself without any help, you'd still have to pay the government.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 253
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 12:13:27 AM

When A Business fails to meet the Insurance requirements.... You screw the employee you pay...

Not if (as in the past) insurance wasn't mandatory. However now it is and if you have employees you must provide insurance or pay a tax of $100 per day per employee until insurance is provided. Any business must provide the insurance for the balance of the calander year in order to qualify for the tax credit.

What percentage of small businesses would you guess is able to pay up front the cost of insuring their entire staff? Do you believe this helps the small business owner grow their business and hire more staff?


''(A) IN GENERAL.--In the case of any employer who is small employer for any calendar year, paragraph (1) shall be applied by substituting the applicable percentage determined in accordance with the following table for '8
percent':

''If the annual payroll of such employer for the preceding calendar year: The applicable percentage is:
Does not exceed $250,000 ..................................... 0 percent
Exceeds $250,000, but does not exceed $300,000 2 percent
Exceeds $300,000, but does not exceed $350,000 4 percent
Exceeds $350,000, but does not exceed $400,000 6 percent


How many small businesses of 50-500 employees has a payroll of less than $400,000 per year? That's only $8000 a year salary for 50 employees. How many businesses of less than 50 employees are able to generate enough jobs for the unemployed? The small mom and pop shops won't be able to cut it and if you're not that small, there's a good chance that your expenses are going to jump dramatically.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 257
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 6:18:15 AM
The pouty Publicans feel compelled to punish homeless Veterans because they did not get their way. Support the troops my azz.
http://vato21stcentury.blogspot.com/2010/03/senate-hearing-on-vet-homelessness-shut.html
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 258
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 6:27:01 AM

P.S. My 2009 federal and provincail tax rate combined was only 2% more than the American Federal tax rate on it's own. So I am definately getting taxed to death!!!!


That's great, and I'm sure your personal hospital experience was fabulous, but you couldn't have shown the problems with health care more clearly. You can't afford it! Your income tax should be the least of your worries.....you're going to love the new hst.


To dramatize the growth of health-care spending, Hansen announced that the entire $3.8 billion revenue from the harmonized sales tax will be required to go to health care, along with $3.7 billion in federal transfers, $1.7 billion paid in medical services plan premiums and the $686 million collected from B.C. smokers in tobacco taxes.

Together, those revenue sources still fall more than $6 billion short of covering the health care bill.


Hansen is the BC minister of finance. The article was from BCNews March 2010. Your province can't afford your health care bill. Neither can most provinces nor can our country as evidenced by our 62 billion dollar deficit. Multiply that by several hundred and you've got the kind of problem Americans will have.


This (spending cash) doesn't usually happen or is understood by a lot of Americans; credit is the way of life nowadays. Yes, a person could pay cash if they wanted to BUT if they did not have insurance too, they would be taxed up to 2.5% of their gross income as a government fine. Basically, even if you wanted to pay for it yourself without any help, you'd still have to pay the government.


It's funny that a problem we have been having with socialized medicine in Canada isn't even comprehendible yet to Americans. We only have a limited amount of medical services available to Canadians. We don't actually have enough MRI machines to get people their dose of radiation immediately. So when one of these machines goes into use in the "private" sector so rich people can pay for immediate service, it takes the machine out of circulation so the rest of us poor slobs actually have to wait longer for our turn. We get all up in arms about weird stuff like the Calgary Flames, our local pucksters, getting Flu shots without standing in line for eighteen hours with all the commoners. Our CFL'ers get their knees fixed way faster than everybody else. This really yanks our chains. So believe me, Americans will absolutely not mind paying their entire bill privately if it means better service. Nor will they bat an eyelash at paying their government mandated health care tax as well. But what happens when your system gets so jammed with people in the emergency room with the sniffles (Americans don't strike me as the type to pay for something and then not use it) that every last resource becomes vital and every last service providers who wants to make an extra buck becomes a traitor?
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 261
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 7:50:34 AM

It passed its the Law............ If you don't like it don't BUY any insurance. Pay the $95 a year or opt out on religious grounds.....

Read the bill closely, you only pay $95 if you make less than $9500 a year. The bill clearly states that (for the first year) it's $95 or 1% of a person's gross income which ever is greater. But that's only for the first year. The tax/fine increases to $695 or 2.5% of their income which ever is greater.

Face it, if this was alright, why would you suggest that someone should use religious grounds to sidestep paying? You expound that the current bill is good yet you suggest that the people it helps should still cheat.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 262
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 7:51:45 AM

If I can't afford it, it is paid for by my government.



What do you feel are the problems with the canadian health care system?



If I can't afford it, it is paid for by my government.


Something in that strikes me as being a problem.


Socailism isn't a bad thing.


I see why you would think that.


As for the HST, it's just combining the taxes already in place.


oh?


Yes there are goods and services that will have the PST taxed that previously weren't.


Ah. So it's actually not at all revenue neutral. All of the new money generated will go towards health care and you're still six billion a year short. Whether you can personally afford to pay the tax burden (all taxes, not just income) towards health care doesn't matter because your government still can't. I suppose in American that's what credit is for.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 268
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 9:27:18 AM
How about you refer to the Bill before you post your "FACTS" and Provide a link....

What I am posting is fact because it's what in the actual bill, not something interpreted on some web site. One again I suggest that you get a copy of the actual bill and read it. You do know how to get the actual bill, don't you?

And you are completely wrong about a $695 dollar maximum. The bill states $695$ or 2.5%, whichever is greater. You make it seem that people haven't actually read the bill and are just selectively expounding on incomplete information from websites or blogs. That's as bad as the politicians screaming Armageddon without providing all of the facts.


When did I ever suggest Cheating? ...

When you suggested using "religious beliefs" as a way out of paying the extra tax. If you don't think that is cheating, you should consider a career in politics.
 Helen0426
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 270
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 9:36:53 AM
Apparently some people still think that this legislation enacted some sort of universal health coverage.

It doesn't.

I can't say it any more plainly than that. It's simple. If anyone still has a hard time understanding it, I refer you again to the bill itself and the summary of its effects to which I cited links earlier in the thread.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 273
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:48:36 AM
You have not posted from the Bill...

Yes I have AND I've sited exactly where in the bill the information is located but it's apparent that you didn't read that in my post nor have you read the bill for yourself. I'm wondering if you know how to get a copy of the actual bill.
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 276
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 11:31:46 AM
I must have missed that ....

Post the section and page number.... again for the Forum...

Wait a second, I've already quoted directly from the bill. I've also sited exactly where in the bill the information is located. Given that, you don't want to get the information yourself and would prefer I do it for you. Who do you think I am, the Federal government?

Seriously, for as many progressive things that are in the bill which would benefit people it all comes with a price. Even though the US Federal government not a for-profit organization, is not a self sustaining entity. Every bite of the Federal apple that take comes at a price; it may not be immediate but it will come in the guise of a tax. As long as the government is mismanaged, the cost is going to be unfairly high to the US Citizens to pay for the Fed's administration of the service.

- Housing
- Healthcare
- Defense
- Education
- Employment

Get the picture?
 CMonster
Joined: 12/4/2004
Msg: 278
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 11:52:10 AM
Is that too hard?

No, not at all. That's why I provided that information in my original post. The only thing which seems difficult is your ability to find it in a simple web forum. And how have you been able to find information about the bill?

 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 281
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 12:30:05 PM
Let me get this straight - your argument against health insurance reform is that the hospitals and doctors can't handle the extra people? So they should just die if they get sick then.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 283
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 1:27:02 PM
"Let me get this straight - your argument against health insurance reform is that the hospitals and doctors can't handle the extra people? So they should just die if they get sick then."

Sometimes Halftimedad, the truth just slips right out. The biggest fear of the I-got-mine crowd is that competition with the "inferior of the species", those uninsured presently, those who got kicked out of insurance pools for pre-existing conditions, job losses, or other circumstances beyond their control. There has been a lot of code spoken and unspoken during the debate. Nice to see some honesty slip out there.

The irony of those self-professed Christians who despise health care for the "least among us" is matched by the Creationists who believe in Darwinian survival of the richest when it comes to health care. Nearly everyone I know in the health care sector say that universal health care would save us tons of money via preventative care vs. the emergency room of last resort model of today.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 285
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 3:12:37 PM
a newly passed law, which is already is in the Senate for fixes and due back to Congress for more fixes...Something wrong with that picture I think.

Yep... It's called "the hoops you have to jump through to deal with people who are committed to the political version of 'Just Say No' to everything"...

Aside: Has anyone else noticed that many of the most vocal "Just Say No" posters suddenly pulled their forum pics, en mass, after the healthcare bill passed...? What's up with that...?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 288
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 7:45:05 PM
I've been paying over $1000/year to opt out of Workman's Comp coverage. WC is a truly useless program, far more expensive and non-effective than anything else the government could conceive of. To be in WC for my trade, the rate is 18% of income and a $5000 binder upfront to be covered. Could be worse.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 295
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:05:29 PM
First of all, Thank you xxxDINOxxx for your very level headed posts.


Provides subsidies for families earning up to 400 percent of the poverty level -- or, under current guidelines, about $88,000 a year -- to purchase health insurance.

-- Requires most employers to provide coverage or face penalties.

-- Requires most people to obtain coverage or face penalties.
Actually, 400% of the guidelines for a family of 4 is $88,200. per year. From our understanding, subsidies will be granted on a sliding scale.

That the law requires "most" employers to provide coverage......can't be a bad thing really. If McDonalds now has to offer health care coverage for employees, they're in a much better bargaining position (as a group) than are their millions of individual employees.

A few years ago, I was undoubtedly against any kind of "universal health care"; 1) because I didn't realize the "need" of so many others. 2) I didn't realize the outrageous costs, because for 30 years, my health insurance was a paid benefit from my employer.

What I DID realize....as much as 20 years ago, is that as soon as a doctor saw my BlueCross/Blue Shield card.....I needed....TESTS.....Lot's and LOTS of tests....and treatments, and 2 more days in the hospital. I really don't know which came first...the chicken or the egg....but the whole insurance/medical thing in this country has been a racket for many years. The costs of medical care has been driven ridiculously HIGH from having the focus on maxing out the upper limits of what one's insurance will provide and pay.

I believe that there are those who are going to "suffer" from not getting SOME tests and treatments that they truly need, but at the same time....WHO'S fault is it? For years, those of us who've had our "Cadillac Health Care plans" have been USED as guinea pigs, and used to "subsidize" the care of those who can't afford to pay anyhow....so what's the big difference NOW? Heck...I might be one of those who could "suffer" because I won't get 20 worthless tests...when I only needed 5...but what the hell....my insurance was willing to pay for 20...so let's do 20! With my luck...it will be the 6th test they would have run that would have figured out what was wrong with me! But ya know...that's OK with me. Because....the costs of health care is this country IS ridiculous...and there ARE too many people who damn well deserve the same access to medical treatment as I do...how haven't gotten it NOT because they're lazy deadbeats....but because NOT everyone is fortunate enough cash in a "group plan". Ya know...SOMEBODY has to work at McDonalds. I'm sure as hell glad that it was never me....but isn't it bad enough that they're already on the bottom of the totem pole wage wise....do we really need to also punish them by making it impossible to obtain medical care for THEMSELVES (we thought it was so magnanimous that we offered them health care for their kids several years ago....but where are their children going to be when Mom and Dad are dead or disabled for lack of health care for themselves???)

I agree, it's probably not an ideal plan...but it's a step in the right direction. And if you doubt that, you've only to take a look at the "concessions" the Insurance Industry has been making token attempts at in the last few years trying to avoid the inevitable.

If we really want to play these "holier than thou" games with the poor...then let's enact a law that forbids them to buy those $800 blow up pools at Walmart unless they can prove they earn over $80K a year and have all had their 6 month dental checkups....but for pities sake......let's NOT deny ( or not begrudge) BASIC health care to almost 90 MILLION US citizens!
 Codeguru
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 296
view profile
History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:08:19 PM
I wonder have any of you actually looked at polls recently? The country is split down the middle on everything that happens with only a slight tip towards democrats these days which is why this bill passed. I severely doubt it will go anywhere or accomplish anything even if it were designed to do so. It will be met with opposition at every turn and since this is such a big issue more than likely violence is bound to start happening because of it. You can see as much magical fairy tale glittery goodness through your rose colored glasses as you want because your side won, but there WILL be hell to pay, no matter what side you're on...

Codeguru
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 297
A great day for America
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:24:18 PM

and there ARE too many people who damn well deserve the same access to medical treatment as I do...how haven't gotten it NOT because they're lazy deadbeats....but because NOT everyone is fortunate enough cash in a "group plan". Ya know...SOMEBODY has to work at McDonalds. I'm sure as hell glad that it was never me.

That's what a lot of people who gripe that the poor should get better jobs to afford health care seem to miss: each class of people helps the classes above it make MORE money. The people who are willing to work for bottom dollar allow services and goods to be provided at lower costs. Some people are just too stupid to realize how much they benefit from those who work for crappy money and why it's to their advantage to make a lower class lifestyle sustainable.

I also think many people are too selfish to realize that not everybody is dealt the same deck of cards. There are plenty of people who lack the mental, emotional or physical capacity to succeed the way many of us take for granted. A menial job is the most they can ever hope for. Unfortunately there are just too many people who think me, me, me and have no concern for the well-being of others.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 301
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:12:44 AM
Who even wants to eat McDonalds? Yuck
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 303
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History
A great day for America
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:46:19 AM

And just a casual observation from the point of being a consumer...do you think McD's is going to absorb this cost out of their profits?
NO! Of course they're not, you're just being obtuse now. They'll raise the cost of those billion burgers a year that they sell by 5 cents each, justifying the increase to health care costs that are actually funded by 2 cents per burger...and end up increasing their profits by 3 cents per burger. What IS your point?

Mine IS, that if we want to "lord over" the poor ...the WORKING POOR, I might add, then we need to find a more reasonable vehicle to mow them down.... denying them access to medical care is a piss poor one with which to beat them up so we can all feel "superior".

You also seem to be missing that because they can't afford a $75 office call to take care of medical issues when they arise...and that close to 50 MILLION of them WAIT until it's a $100,000. hospital stay (emergency) that the REST of us are ALREADY absorbing those costs through higher premiums. Surely you can't be saying that it's cost advantageous to deny someone $1000 a year worth of insulin because they don't have insurance...but that we CAN afford to hospitalize them 2 or 3 times a year when their condition is a bonafide "emergency" which the hospital cannot turn away.

Really???? Is this how you service your automobile? The hell with a routine oil change...I'll just wait until it blows a head gasket and THEN fix it?


That's what a lot of people who gripe that the poor should get better jobs to afford health care seem to miss: each class of people helps the classes above it make MORE money. The people who are willing to work for bottom dollar allow services and goods to be provided at lower costs. Some people are just too stupid to realize how much they benefit from those who work for crappy money and why it's to their advantage to make a lower class lifestyle sustainable.

I also think many people are too selfish to realize that not everybody is dealt the same deck of cards. There are plenty of people who lack the mental, emotional or physical capacity to succeed the way many of us take for granted. A menial job is the most they can ever hope for. Unfortunately there are just too many people who think me, me, me and have no concern for the well-being of others.
YES! And thankfully at least SOME of us get it!!! Where the hell do any of us think we'd be if there were no sewer workers? Are we willing to shovel our own sh1t? I doubt it. We might be willing to give up going to restaurants....no waitresses.....they all got better paying jobs with good health care benefits, BUT....who's going to sell us those groceries we'd like to take home and cook for ourselves? The clerks at your local Walmart Super Center earn a whopping $16,000. a year....and they have NO health care insurance. Since average health care premiums range from $6K-$12 a year....sure as hell doesn't leave THEM much to pay rent and buy groceries with now does it? OHHHH wait...then of course....you'd be ****ing because you run the pizza shop that they NO LONGER patronize because they can't afford to buy a pizza once a month....so YOU retaliate by raising the price of your pizza $2 each and pass that on to the folks who earn $60K a year.....and STILL try to tell us that we're NOT ALREADY paying...and paying through the nose for the "emergency health care" of the uninsured....ALL because the system has gone unchecked for so long that there is NO competition.

I am a "recovering Republican"...and I endorse the bill. I've long (40 yrs worth) opposed even the slightest hint that the "government" should be competing with private industry, but have had to face the FACT that private industry has become so corrupt and so greedy that it's THEY who are destroying the "middle class"....which is what has ALWAYS sustained this country....but which is a thorn in the side of the idle rich....because we serve as a buffer between them and the "poor"...so they must eliminate us.


Health plan executives, who for years enjoyed billion-dollar profits for their companies, saw a reversal of fortune in 2008 as stock options, retirement contributions and perquisites dried up with profits and stock prices.

Chief executive officers at the seven largest publicly traded health plans experienced an average 12% drop in total compensation in 2008, compared with 2007, according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

That decrease is steeper than the average among the CEOs of companies in the S&P 500 Index, who saw an average drop of 6.8%, according to an analysis by executive compensation research firm Equilar.

For the top brass at the big health plans, there also was a wide range in pay changes between 2007 and 2008. Three executives — Jay Gellert, president and CEO of Health Net; Angela Braly, president and CEO of WellPoint; and Aetna Chair and CEO Ronald Williams — saw boosts in total compensation. Williams’ went up by 5%, from $23 million to $24.3 million; Braly’s by 8%, from $9 million to $9.8 million; and Gellert’s by 20%, from $3.6 million to $4.4 million.

The fact is though on the other side of the coin, is that the health insurance profit margins after expenses (including salaries of course) are paper thin and the bulk of the good companies (exlcluding United Health Care) make 2-3% returns in profits. This does not preclude the CEO from having his own private yacht or jet and a single payer system would of course at least make the disperal of health care more fair to minorities and the uneducated who suffer the worst in the current system.


Ohhhhhhhh geeezzz.....well Hell YES, the whine about their profits being "paper thin"....that's because the calculate those profits AFTER they all pay themselves millions per year. Sheeeshhhh, not even 1 Business 101 or Economics or accounting class???? Do you even file personal income taxes????? I think even in about 10th grade they start teaching you how to MINIMIZE your taxable income (profits) by writing off everything you can think of. Sure, they want to earn enough profits to pay "stockholders"...but what you aren't considering IS, that THEY are the biggest shareholders....and that it's a nothing more than a juggling game. They have to show enough profit to attract small time shareholders, but not so much that they have to pay taxes on it.

Good job on cutting your own throat though....aren't you glad you now have health care?
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