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 AUTHOR
 Gemguy
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 12
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History
Will You ChangePage 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Hey Kowboi, yep it's me again. I'd like to point out some problems with that argument (that competing with government is impossible). First, that's sort of comparing apples to oranges. Governments generally don't operate "industries" like health care. They simply provide health care. It's only in America (and a couple of 3rd world countries) that we have for-profit companies that operate within a health care industry. Our system wasn't awful until recently in the last decade or so. Secondly, when you ask "who's calling the shots?" I'd like to answer. The for-profit health care companies. The stupid health care bill passed gives very little power to the government. They basically said " You little people, you have to buy insurance and we'll make the insurance company profit wildly and require that you buy their product years before you get to use it." They solved none of the other problems that plague the system that drive up the costs (we discussed in earlier posts) and now they shove the system down our throats. I just love being forced to pay for insurance when some of the CEOs get paid in the HUNDREDS of Millions in salary over a brief time to run these companies. Talk about public subsidy. I think I'll spend some time sighting in the scope on my rifle.

Kbodley, I'm sorry to hear about your health care costs going up. I'm sure your son needs his meds and Doctor's visits. Unfortunately, I'd be paying almost twice what your son pays and I'm healthy (and 51) . My mind sympathizes with you while my wallet doesn't doesn't like it one bit. I believe everyone has to have health care but, we have a broken system that leads back to our broken political system. Money buys influence and influence changes laws. Kbodly have you been out protesting the CEO salarys and contacting your legislators? I've sent various emails to my congressman and senator. We have to get them to listen. Add your voice.
Gemguy
 Gemguy
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 13
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History
Will You Change
Posted: 8/14/2010 2:04:37 AM
Hey Kowboi,
Good to see you too. I hope you realize there were several accounts of the Constitutional Convention. I wouldn't just rely on one. I think its fair to say the founding fathers did a incredible job of creating a document that is adaptive and evolving. They knew there was a need to modify and add amendments, hence why they put those measures in the Constitution. If you look at the government of modern Germany (postWW2) you find that we helped design them design a new government model that included public health care system. We won the war and they got a version of singe payer insurance. That was 60 something years ago so that would have been the Truman administration, I believe.

Health care as a government entitlement hasn't happened yet. Yeah, I know they signed the bill and all but it's still not here and won't be for years. Maybe not the answer you were looking for? How about this: When it becomes necessary to have the government step in because private industry (insurance companies) are screwing folks over bad. Go back in history and remember that we didn't always have certain governmental agencies. Take public transportation. Back when trains were pretty much the only public transportation and un-regulated, there were terrible train accidents. There were problems with how tracks were built and how fast trains went and how they were built. After many years of accidents getting worse and worse the public began to see that maybe just maybe there should be government oversight of the trains/tracks/railroad bridges. The railroad company owners fought like the****ns to stop any regulation, but they eventually lost. Thus was born the NTSB! Do we still have railroad accidents? Yep. But not generally ones that kill dozens several times a year in all major cities. I'd still rather have the NTSB than not have it, wouldn't you?

See Kowboi I have a problem with industries that want to self regulate. It doesn't work and never has worked. Not that the health care in this country hasn't had regulations it's just that health care insurance companies are getting away with murder. Literal murder. They decide that someone doesn't get the necessary treatments because it's too expensive when they pay C.E.O.s tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in salary. Your child dies 'cause a treatment is 200K, but the C.E.O. gets a new 100ft yacht and a condo in Vail. We might as well start calling some of these C.E.O.s "Lord" or "Your Highness" since they have life and death control of those folks they insure.
Do I want the government running health care in it's entirety? Hell no. I want the my elected officials to make sure the industry meets the moral and ethical standards considered normal in the rest of modern society. I could use the phase " regulate not dominate!" to describe my objectives.
 Captain_Wayne
Joined: 5/24/2010
Msg: 14
Will You Change
Posted: 9/18/2010 12:46:11 AM
We need to get something done about the lying propagandists hired by rich people who are filling the radio stations with nothing but what rich people want you to believe. I hope Rush Limbaugh gets caught with his ten yr old boyfriend so we can be rid of him, but that may not do it. I mean hell, Newt Gingrich was the first one to point his finger at Bill Clinton and start screaming "Sinning adulterer," and then they found out about Newt's girlfriend, but now a whole lot of republicans are wanting to see the guy become president.
 bdogindahous
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 15
Will You Change
Posted: 10/22/2011 1:49:53 AM
I know when I was young, I wanted to be rich when I grew up. Everyone has said it once or twice. However, the answer is NOT to punish the rich for being rich. Most rich work hard to be where they are at and to hear people say they should divvy their money up to the poor is preposterous. To listen to people such as Captain is hurting my ears. Do you ever read what you write Captain? Did you know that most rich already pay 50% taxes? Now the federal government wants them to pay over half their income. Whats the point of trying to make money anymore?

We need some sort of health reform, but the health bill must be stopped at this point. To force EVERYONE to get health care by 2014 or suffer a $2500 dollar fine and jail time is unconstitutional. This so called free health care is not free at all. Our elderly are finding this out as their Medicare is already being charged and the Health Plan hasn't begun yet. As a free nation, we are given the chance to choose for ourselves not dictated what we can and can't have and must do. Our government at this point has gone too far. It is time to evict the bad tenants in the White House and let some new renters give it a try.

We the people
By the people
For the people

There is no Government in we

My father says everything the government touches turns to @$&^ and I am beginning to believe him. They are trying to get rid of big banks and are telling them how to operate. I didn't know government ran banks. They are foreclosing homes early (not giving people a chance to pay the allotted amount.) I know that for a fact because it happened to me and a few friends. We were 10 trillion in debt in 2008 after Bushs' term. 4 trillion in 8 years was pretty bad, but we got past it. Now we are 14 trillion in debt under Obama. he has spent 4 trillion in 3 years.

WTF!!!!! The country is bankrupt and he is still trying to borrow money. We give 15 countries money and 5 more were promised billions in the last week. We have a president that runs around our country in a 747 with a copy 747 following. He then gets on a 4 million dollar bus with a copy 4 million dollar bus following. He waists all this precious fuel that we have to pay our hard earned money for just to get to work to make money and pay his taxes.

When will this insanity stop???

QUIT SPENDING MY MONEY!!!!

By the way 10 trillion = 10,000,000,000,000.
The average middle class American will never make 1,000,000 in their lifetime
gone
 Missedagain281
Joined: 10/1/2008
Msg: 17
Will You Change
Posted: 12/4/2011 6:51:17 PM
There is as expected, 2 widely different ideas, but no one has mentioned my pet peave. I am against ANY bill that requires 2,700 pages. The only reason for such length is to make it so difficult to understand, that the average citizen never will. Who has the time and inclination to dedicate the time to study such a bill? The people that will benefit the most, or be hurt the most.
 cajuncooker
Joined: 4/11/2012
Msg: 18
Will You Change
Posted: 4/25/2012 12:58:12 PM
Yes it will change my vote. Eurocare, obama care whatever you want to call it is another step toward socialized communism which started with social security. I dont want the government telling me i have to have healthcare and that if I dont I am gonna be penalized for it.
Those of you supporting the commucare have not read the whole bill:
For instance on page 7 it say the government can come out and take pictures of a stores frontage and if it dosent meet government standards then they can close a business down. On page 14 it says your medical records alone with your id have to be microchipped into your body (humm and if any man recieved not the mark of the beast he could not buy sell or trade). Also on page nine of the bill it not longer allows religious organizations such as churches to hire those they only feel morally qualified (ie a baptist chruch can no longer under protection ban a gay or lesbian from working on staff).
now for those of you who say we need euopean style heath care fine you can sit there and die of a heart attacke or bleed to death while an old person sits there and talks to a doctor about the corns on their feet and them not being able to pass gas.
I dont know about you but less government involvement means less taxes and more liberty. Isnt the government already wasteful and too big?
Example I just read today Keizer in the midst of econmic termoil and having to have teachers and student do half days and also take days off from school just built a 68,000 sqaure foot multimillion dollar skate park. should not that money have went to help our kids learn?
 MrOogam
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 19
Will You Change
Posted: 7/15/2012 10:47:53 PM
I did not vote for him the first time around & certianly will not this time either!!!
One main problem with health care is they over charge to make their books look like they are in the red. Then they go to the Fed. Gov. say we can not keep our doors open!!!! The feds then gives up the $$$$$ to make their books stay in the black, all part of the CDC & surgeon general maintaining their grip on that part of society. Proof? why does a bayer asprin cost $35 in the hospital? Or a bed cost $400 a night? Think I am distorting things? Go back a few years & look up the Tennet Health care law suit from the Fed. Gov., instead of chargeing 200-250% mark ups as are the norm. , they were quadrupling or more.... pissed the Feds. & CDC off lol. But what do you expect? Name one Fed Gov prog. that is not taken advatage of in this manner? It happens with ALL of them on every level, no? Gov. Health care should be limited to the orphaned, the widow, & low income families. NOT Illegal Immigrants, they get enough care to be healthy enough to be sent home, that right there would substancially lower costs.
I have a friend in So. Calif. whose brother has been through 2 bone marrow transplants, of course it wiped out his parents at the time medical ins., so the state stepped in. He goes to Harbor UCLA Cnty med cntr, sits on a gurney for a day or more in the halls, while illegals get treated .....because they get more $$$$ from the Feds for treating illegals than my friends brother as a citizen, how does that work? OH YEH BTW, his first transpplant was through the city of HOPE, guess where they stood when he fell out of remission? They refused to re treat him because their GOVERNMENT grants are based on success rates... go figure...plus they billed the chit outta the Ins. till there was none left to bill. They even called extended family member flat out told them, " want your brother, cousin, nephew, ect... to live? pony up ytour savings" Sounds like a bit more than double dipping, government subsidised, & wiping the families out. And we want to hand over more controll of health care... not me..
Some one mentioned the low cost Congress gets? LOL Who the HE dbl hockey sticks do you thing pays for their health care? HiNT: " IT AINT THEM!!!!" Health care will only add to the trillions this Pres( term used loosley) has indebted this nation to, confirmed by recent CBO reports. See they have finally had time to read it, know some, to most of its expanse of over reach & impact. We can not be like Pelosi" we have to pass it to find out what is in it!?!?" HUH, what!?!?!, are we opening a box a cracker jacks hoping there is a spy decoder ring, or some other good prise in the box or what!!!!
All Gov. subsidies need to stop, paying people & companies to NOT do or produce something is retarded!!!! Example: know what ETO is? Energy Trust of Oregon, know how it gets its revenues to pay out rebates? Do not be surprised here...... you.....me.... every Oregonian pays in to it....3-5% of every utility bill gets taxed & sent to ETO. NOw 'splain how that when such a major percentage of this state gets assistance for utilities, is that not like paying ones self? How is that generating revenue? That is not even money changing pockets, you give it to me, I give it right back to pay the bill....
Health care is just the tip of the ice berg of GOV. controll.....utilities costs are on the rise under this admin., shutting down power generating stations, by raising EPA standards that are all but imposs. to sustain for business. Heck just a EPA report takes decades, & would put most compainies in bankruptcy for the cost. UNLESS they are on O'bamas good side then he'd bail them out so they could go out of business with a profit!!! LOL....it is just plain laughable....
They are doing an end around on gun controll. Trying to sign UN treaties to place that under their controll in OUR nation.
Oh yeah last thing all GOV. jobs, at every level, 30% pay cut, benefits packages(ie: ins benefits, retirement packages) have to be in line with the private sector, not dbl. or triple of the private sector.
All I know is any one who spends millions to hide his past, will not allow his records to be scrutinised for a proper vetting process, haashad details in his books to be proven factually wrong, does not deserve to be trusted, let alone president of this country!!!! Romney should make a deal with O'bama, you release your e real birth cert., college transcripts, & I'll release the last 10 yrs tax returns LOL.....
All I can say is wake up America, it is supposed to be a Government by the people, & for the people!!!!!!
K nuff of a rant ofr now....
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