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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!      Home login  
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 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 15
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dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Admittedly it has been years since I read Maslow, and I've been thinking I want to go back and mine his later work as I think I'd get a different take on it now in my more *cough* mature years. I find I'm stopped by the notion of inverse - can you expand on it more?

It has also been pondered, that Maslow's law may operate in the inverse once the fifth need was met, since self-actualization would profoundly shift the paradigm.

Didn't Maslow speak more of self-actualization as a series of peak experiences rather than a state one continuously exists in? I've more thought of this in the sense of meta-needs rising once all of the other needs are met rather than a total paradigm shift.

Thoughts on the isolation of people: Maslow was pretty clear that growth comes in community with people and we need each other. Which has always made a great deal of sense to me. I'm thinking he would likely be horrified with our current cult of the individual.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 16
dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/26/2010 7:22:12 PM
Get out that popper~ OP in my opinion you forgot the most important human need I have, and which many out here in P.O.F. land consider to be in the top three~ SEX.
This is a dating site after all. I would not be me if I didn't mention it. Kinky Margo signing off for now~
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 17
dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/27/2010 9:28:46 PM

I find I'm stopped by the notion of inverse - can you expand on it more?


I studied it in school through the lens of linear achievement, and used inverse within the context of mirror-image. Self-actualization trickling down to a reevaluation of each tier, resulting in a paradigm shift.


Didn't Maslow speak more of self-actualization as a series of peak experiences rather than a state one continuously exists in? I've more thought of this in the sense of meta-needs rising once all of the other needs are met rather than a total paradigm shift.


I think that this expresses a more lateral interpretation, which I like better, than the one provided through my studies.

And I have to be honest...I never really liked Maslow's Law, because I felt that the ordering of building blocks to the hierarchal needs varies, and also because I think that Maslow put forth this premise with a confirmation bias. Didn't he only attribute his findings to people whom he found successful? Isn't that subject to individualistic interpretation? And what about everyone else? The whole thing felt exclusionary to me.

I think I have only stuck my pinky toe in the waters of self-actualization. But that was enough to cause me to ponder, how do I acquire self-esteem, where do I belong, what gives me a sense of security, and how do I earn my living and my goodness, what am I putting into my body...

I personally experienced a paradigm shift. But not necessarily in that order. And I think every person's road to self-actualization varies.


You know who I mean: The "you" that no words can hold, describe or adequately express.


For some reason I thought of "inversion of the sole" when I read this. It made me think of quantum mechanics. It made me think of the micro.

The Observer. The Random Variable.

(But I could be way off base. I still liked the concept play on words.)
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 18
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dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/27/2010 9:43:21 PM

I think you'll agree that intuitively there is another image of yourself hereabouts, busy defying description. You know who I mean: The "you" that no words can hold, describe or adequately express. This part-two of you is absolutely free of the constraints associated with cause and effect, behavior, or any other aspect of temporal existence. I suggest that it is a case of there being a platform for experience, which we can call our usual selves, and then additionally and superior is something more beyond any of the experiences we can have, which may be tricky to describe but should be easy to recognize as the constant quality that differentiates what matters from only what must be done or what happened to happen.

To Be is also a need, is it not? To be human is to have an essence that is, as you say, beyond what must be done or what happened. Humans have a need to be who and what they can; to find fulfillment. To sit on a rock on a fine day and feel the warmth of the sun on your face. To be alone on a motorcycle, or with a friend or two.

I don't see any aspect of life that is separate from need.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 19
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dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/28/2010 5:53:16 AM

And I have to be honest...I never really liked Maslow's Law, because I felt that the ordering of building blocks to the hierarchal needs varies, and also because I think that Maslow put forth this premise with a confirmation bias. Didn't he only attribute his findings to people whom he found successful? Isn't that subject to individualistic interpretation? And what about everyone else? The whole thing felt exclusionary to me

That shows a difference in us *grins* when I read it in my twenties, missed the exclusionary bit completely and simply felt like my "to do" list just got bigger. He was unhappy with psychiatry at the time with its' focus on dysfunction so he went where others weren't: well people. I believe he started on the path to disprove Behaviouralists. He studied people who were well and functioning in order to see why. His later work focused on a smaller sample of successful people (like Elenor Rossevelt, Einstein) because he wanted to understand self-actualization better. And his even later stuff got into transcendence.

I'm off to hockey, so will return to this later.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 20
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dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/28/2010 8:28:25 AM

To be is not a need. Needs are in order to be. Being is what you have when your needs are met. The aspect of life separate from need is known as contentment, aka happiness, known in some circles as bliss, in others as, as you so astutely mentioned, riding a motorcycle. Needs are the stage upon which the play is acted. The care and feeding of need is merely the rudiment. It's bread alone. It's the gas in the tank not the wind in your hair. It's OK if you get bread in your hair, too.

I thought I was catching this in your earlier posts, but wasn't sure. I suspect we have a different interpretation of needs. (I always seem to come down to a conversation on wants and needs *lol@me). If you'll indulge me, I'd like to get a better grasp of how you view this *grins*.

I think human beings have a need to be fully expressed, fulfilled, to achieve their full potential... to Be is these things, is it not? I think when people are not engaged in achieving their full potential they are unhappy. What I call "feeding the soul" is as important as bread. Man does not live by bread alone (unless he happens to be out of bread at that moment, of course). Certainly we can exist with less, that's not the issue, but to thrive, to reach our full potential, there simply needs to be more. A life without joy is not a life, it is existence.

One could argue that ones ability 'to be' is in proportion to how well ones needs are met. I think 'to be' is a need in and of itself. It is a driving force in having us swing our legs out of bed each morning. The happy man is one who believes his life has a purpose larger than himself.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 21
dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/28/2010 7:19:01 PM
I dont think it's ever an issue of appreciating perfection. I myself take one day at a time to just live and be. When my basic needs for my personal well being are met, I am happy. I find happiness in the smallest of things, the simplest gestures, and the marvels of nature and the people around me. I don't have this need to be different, or better, I like the me I am. Sure I like to educate myself about different things I might not know anything about. Thats kind of why I have an addiction to these threads. I like reading the opinions of others. I enjoy my own self expression, as well as the beauty others have to share. I don't believe happiness comes from striving to be all we can be, but from acceptance of who we are right here and now.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 22
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dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 3/29/2010 8:49:57 AM
I need to muddle over this (I'm a slow thinker) but a few quick thoughts:


Expression is circumstantially a need, if it is, and sometimes it is not, and I don't think there is a universal need to express oneself beyond the specific reasons why a person might. There are times when saying nothing and having nothing to say fit the situation nicely.

Saying nothing IS being fully expressed, if what you have to say is nothing. If you have something you want to say but are fearful/whatever of saying it, then you are not fully expressed. Not being fully expressed is what has one feel anxious.

Seeking knowledge can come from several places, and sometimes more than one simultaneously. Sometimes it is a need for security; if I know more/understand more the world will be a safer place. Sometimes it is a need for belonging; if I know more people will like me/hire me/respect me. Sometimes it is a need for esteem; I like knowing stuff - I like the me that knows stuff. Or to gain outside respect from others (where sometimes belonging and esteem overlap IMO). Sometimes is is a need for self-actualization or self-expression - more where curiosity for curiosity's sake comes into play.

The only thing we can be is ourselves. Arguably, the more we become attuned and in alignment with who we say we are the more fulfilled and happy we are and the less we are disrupted by other people's opinions of us. People tend to think of the top of the pyramid as some super human doing, I think that is a misinterpretation. One that I can get as it is a natural extension of our prevailing culture. Someone fully expressed might be a mother, a guy working on a line, a freelancer. Whatever they are, whatever they are doing or not doing in their lives. they are satisfied with their expression. In other words, they have met their potential as they have defined it.

If there is a universal human need, I say it is to be Accepted and Understood. At first we seek this outside of ourselves and eventually (if we reach our full potential) we achieve it from within.

I once took a course where an exercise was to design a 100 year life plan. 100 years from wherever you were right now. Once people achieved absolutely everything on their lists, from accomplishments and material gains and soul filling "hear the roar of the motorcycle" or "stop and appreciate the flowers", they got around to solving world hunger or world peace. (Admittedly, some people got to it earlier than others, but they all got there in the end). The thing I found the most interesting about the exercise - beyond seeing Maslow in action (which wasn't the intention of the exercise, but it was writ large), was the virtually universal inclination to collapse the 100 year plan into ones own lifespan and fill one's life with "life beyond doing" - in other words "to be". To get to the good stuff now.
 ApollinaireG
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 23
dissecting the Hierarchy of needs, INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE WANTED!
Posted: 4/3/2010 12:03:00 AM
Listen up...One cannot transcend one’s needs without altering one’s nature. We need to live, eat and procreate. Or we’d be suicidal and death by definition is the absence of life. In the hierarchy of needs, these three are fundamental. All other needs are not needs within themselves but impositions by one’s environment consciously or otherwise. To get to the question. Imagine a life with no human contact. Not like “I am Legend” where a society just vanished but a world where it never existed. Hence no recollection of “civilization”. In this context, the concept of a spouse would have no meaning. Having a spouse would not be a need. However living in a group creates the “social needs” and having a spouse is a manifestation within such group. Religion, social status or family upbringing might dictate the need to have a spouse. One may not feel the need if place in a different environment. Unlike the need for a spouse, I’ll add to the above fundamentals the need for meaning that comes only when share with someone else: a friend, a lover, an organization. Powerful, great and legendary achievements, while significant within themselves, can only have meaning when known, shared and appreciated
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