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 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 65
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Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!Page 4 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Besides, you understood what was said just fine;

I deny that accusation in its entirety.

Really, it was so convoluted I bailed as if some crazy person had tried to engage me in conversation in the grocery store checkout line.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 66
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/29/2010 6:45:01 PM

Discerning Virtuosa...yes, all those things are wonderful and not you are not stupid...But the point some of us have been making is that isn't it better to find someone to share those things with who enjoys you as you are and not as someone an article tells you to be?


Yes - I do agree, and see the article as more propaganda that women should tip toe around men, go along to get along, and have no expectations or requirements of men. We should just sit quietly and hope for the best. I know from experience that the easy-going girl who asks for nothing from a man usually gets exactly that - nothing.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 70
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 7:42:00 AM
Thanks...I'll apply the article in reverse. Every man I've been with since I've divorced has asked me to marry them - now I know what I've been doing wrong.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 71
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Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 8:06:20 AM

I also feel that men tend to want the commitment more than they'd like women to believe, but want us to all think we want it more so they get the option with no pressure. A guy who's not fighting commitment pressure all the time may turn around and apply commitment pressure, ironically.

It actually makes sense. In general, people move AWAY from pressure. Real or imagined pressure causes them to step away and seek space. The absence of pressure tends to cause people to step in closer and often an attempt to shore things up or "seal the deal".

I experienced the same thing other posters have mentioned - during a period in my life where I wanted recreation not relationship, every man wanted a commitment.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 72
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 9:33:18 AM

I experienced the same thing other posters have mentioned - during a period in my life where I wanted recreation not relationship, every man wanted a commitment.

They already knew what the answer was, so was it something they truly wanted, or simply saw it as a safe opportunity for a half hearted try at it?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 73
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 12:24:07 PM
^^I don't think it's either most of the time. I think it's a reaction to try and convince someone of something they themselves would be avoiding if they were being pressured about it. Men who aren't trying to fend off commitment pressure are free to realize they might want commitment - but especially so when it's clear it's not an option.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 74
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 12:51:58 PM

I don't think it's either most of the time. I think it's a reaction to try and convince someone of something they themselves would be avoiding if they were being pressured about it. Men who aren't trying to fend off commitment pressure are free to realize they might want commitment - but especially so when it's clear it's not an option.


You would think that but time and time again I have seen men who are more than happy to ambiguously sail along for years while putting the bare minimum into a relationship and rarely stepping up until it's too late. Women who set boundaries are more apt not to be taken for a ride or mistaken for being a free ride. Women shouldn't reward a man for being complacent in a relationship either.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 75
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 1:01:18 PM
I agree with you DV, I just think that some ambiguous men tend to be less so when they meet a woman who tells him straight out she's not going to settle down. I think it's in some people's DNA to react to what they perceive as a challenge . I don't think they are really looking to settle down - moreso they want to be the one to set that boundary and are used to a woman trying to get him to settle down (which may be his reason for the disclaimer of being ambiguous up front - it gives him room to keep women at arms length assuming that all women will expect commitment).

I think it's unintended reverse psychology, or as another poster put it the option of choice - they just want to be the one to set boundaries and make any relationship decisions.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 76
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Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 1:23:55 PM
There's another possibility too, or so it seems to me: Ever notice how when one person in a couple is knawing at something, the other doesn't have to do the emotional work of it? As soon as that person stops aggitating over it, the other person suddenly has the space to feel their own feelings rather than reacting to their partner's feelings?

I'm also not so sure it's all that ambiguous, certainly in some cases it would be, but I'm more inclined to think people are more ambivalent - having opposing feelings.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 78
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Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 2:25:31 PM
woman in progress: i wrote the material you quoted. i hope you're not saying it has anything to do with this point.


It's basically proof that most [men] don't want to do anything they don't make the decision on.

because it doesn't. you're trying to generalize beyond the scope beyond my context.

my material represented worst-case scenario courtship advice to a young woman dating presumably young men with fewer ethical concerns about manipulation, and reasons unrelated to monogamous commitment.



^^Here's an example of that sort of thing posted by a forum participant in another thread (Ask a Guy - Same Thing) that pretty much proves my point.

here's a secret for you. the dating dynamic is often like applying for a job, with the woman as the 'employer' and the man as the 'applicant.' consider the last job interview you went on. i'm willing to bet that even if the job didn't look that terrific, you acted like you'd step over your own grandmother for it. that way you impressed the 'employer' and maximized your chances for getting the job offer, which would then give you the option of choice over accepting it.

many men do the same thing. they believe the spin of enthusiasm for you will maximize their chances of you consenting to get closer. then they have the option of choice. my guess is the strategy worked, and his choice was not to pursue you further.

The "option of choice". Great title for that behavior. I'll have to remember that for future reference.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 79
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/30/2010 3:18:34 PM
^^I quoted your post as an example of something similar. Different situation, but same sort of process. I in no way meant to say what you posted was what I was saying exactly at all, only that it's an example of it in another situation. My point wasn't about commitment in particular but more the preference of having all options available - I only referred to commitment as it was the topic of the thread (and a response to a poster who referred to it).
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 82
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:12:57 AM

Well, as someone else said there shouldn't be any pressure or be forced to committ


I'm just curious - how does a woman FORCE a man to commit?

I was just joking to a friend the other day about finding a loving man and not settling for someone who just wants to hitch a ride till the next stop.

I said "I want a man's heart, but not if I have to rip it out of his chest".
 Verissa
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 84
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/14/2014 9:04:11 AM
Love and commitment should not be based on tricks, altering something you do because an article tells you that you will land your man, or woman for that matter, is absurd. We are humans and creatures of habit, sooner or later our true selves will come through and I know first hand how betrayed I felt finding that the man I dated and the man I married were two completely different people . Once you're in that kind of relationship though you cannot simply cut and run, and that feeling of being trapped or deceived can lead to resentment. I vote be yourself, be open, be honest, if they fall for you and you for them great, if not, it isn't meant to be.

Games are exhausting. Chasing people is exhausting...this is new for me the one sided effort thing. It's maddening, and one must have some sense of pride; I don't know how anyone could live like that for long.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 85
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/14/2014 9:10:32 AM
if someone wishes for a relationship, its real easy:

go date someone who wants one enough to act and speak like they want one.

but if you hope a relationship will say something good about you, then all you're going to find is like-minded individuals...partners who are looking for something that will make them feel like a success in life. and they will speak their own vocabulary, which will sound like your vocabulary and thus you'll get lead down the wrong path...since you were only looking for that path.

sad to say, some people are worth dating but not marrying. That's b/c they've tried so hard to fit in, so hard to be like other people, so little a threat by having a different personality...that they aren't any different from anyone else, so why be exclusive to them?
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 86
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/14/2014 2:30:37 PM
Inpune- Articles and/or books like this have little or no value.
People vary and want different things.
Really, it's about compatibility and accepting each other as is.
Trying to change someone or change yourself for someone else doesn't work, jmo.
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/14/2014 6:46:58 PM
Some of the things in that link (op) just can't be argued with, like -

- Show him you’re interested in him for who he is and not what he can do for you.

- Do not play games to get him to pursue you

But, it still reveals some flaws in thinking, like -

“For example, although men like to sow their wild oats, they soon grow tired and long to settle down with a single partner”

Are we really still going to define "men" by the ones who go through these behavioral stages and for these reasons, and that it probably applies to "most men"? Geez lueez, is that junk ever going to come to an end?

Also, people play too many games with stats and percentages and study results. Here we are again emphasizing how many marriages fail, as if it means something that it doesn't. Consider this - Just to pull a number out of my arse, but one that can certainly be accurate enough: nationwide, accounting for every single instance when a person gets hired somewhere and has a job, 95% of all jobs end early or fail eventually. So, um, like...what's the more realistic and productive way to look at the job issue, the reasons why a job or employee doesn't last, what those reasons really mean, and whether or not you should try to get a job?

[Show him you’re independent] This I see as a problem because some men seem to be into the White Knight thing and if they don't feel needed, they won't stick around. I have seen guys walk right past the together chick and go right for the dysfunctional whackjob just as there are women that go right past the good dependable guy and go after the guy that isn't going to care about them.

Make sure that you're not mistaking one thing for another. Often this happens because the woman thinks that 'being independent' means having (or seeming to have) no need for the man in any way. Not really wanting him. Being indifferent and aloof. Being so 'independent' that she seems to not really even give a damn about having a man and doesn't want one to even approach her. And so, if he walks past the 'together' woman for another, it's because that 'together' woman thinks that being 'independent' means acting stuck-up and indifferent, and the guy might be getting that vibe. I've observed quite a few times that when a girl would frustratingly comment that 'men are intimidated by my indpendence [or some ability]', and she didn't seem capable of realizing that her level of independence [or ability] was irrelevant, but it was her weird-assed obnoxious personality, a personality that he wouldn't put up with in a guy-friend either, all the while her thinking of herself as simply 'being independent'. And hell, even in the relatively 'old days', even then you'd hear a woman say nonsensical crap like 'if you look for a guy or act like you're interested, then you're being desperate', as if to make 'wanting' a man seem so-uncool.

Interestingly, I made a decision to casual date and have no inclination to be in a relationship or get married and guess what the guys are all over me to committ.

Many times things like this happen for reasons very different than a person lets theirself realize. When you made your decision, are you sure that in that process you didn't unknowingly change some other things about yourself and how you act that would be the real reasons for the result that you believe that you're observing...completely different than just turning away from relationships or marriage and going to casual date?

This may seem like an odd example, but it's still showing a similar dynamic like what I'm talking about - I'll observe a woman become 'disillusioned' about men, not being able to find a 'good one', and so decide to 'go lez' and look for a woman, and she finds a very good woman...and then she draws the conclusion that there aren't any good men but only good women, or other weird conclusions. However, when she decided to look for a woman, the way that she looked and dated, etc, completely changed...changed in the way that would find someone a good man or woman, but a way that she didn't want to employ when looking for a man.

Why would they? They certainly don't need a man to take care of them and why would any woman want to work harder, ie, taking care of this man, while he gets it easier?

This is kind of scary, and a turn off - Would you only be marrying someone because you needed them to take care of you? Do you not conceive of any other reason, better reason, why you might want to marry someone?

Have we all become so disengaged from human contact?
Am I stupid for being 47 and still want to share my life with someone?
How about someone to watch a sunset with? Someone to cuddle and watch a movie with? Someone to accompany me to a concert or to dinner? Some one to be a friend and that actually gives a shyt how your day went? Someone who's happy to come home to me at night and have a healthy meal cooked and waiting? Someone who really gets me, and I can have great, worry free sex with?
Sorry - you may think simply shacking up we can still have all of these things, but the whole "well, you'll do for now" just doesn't give me my happily ever after. I deserve more than that, and it's not ridiculous or out of line to expect the best from a partner in a relationship.
If it's too much to ask, then let him watch sunsets alone, masturbate, cook his own food, do his own laundry, sit on his own couch with his hand down his pants, etc.
I'm so tired of men thinking of women as a liability, and thinking that we have nothing to offer (unless we look like Pam Anderson) that I really have no patience for it anymore

Now that right there is refreshing (pardoning the included frustration). Is a gleam of hope, in a world with too many people who think that actually "wanting" and "looking" for something like this is the wrong way to do it, is not something that's worth having, or appreciating it somehow means that you are miserable alone and with no meaning or purpose.

(Those talking about books or articles for men trying to understand women, and women trying to understand men) You people’s first mistake here is thinking that very many women or men would conform to any perspectives about the gender as a whole. At the public library once, included in a stack of books that I was checking out was some then-“famous” book of fiction alledgedly about women’s sexuality - I wasn’t getting it because I assumed that I would learn about women from it, but I wanted to find out what it said just to compare that to the public image that the book had and see if it was full of shit or not. The female librarian who was checking out the books for me made a comment about “well at least you’re trying to learn about us women” in that way that said that she believed that the book was a bible for women…and this was after, during conversation, I learned that she hadn’t read the book and had no idea what it said. I wanted to ask her “then how do you know that I’m going to learn anything worthwhile about women from it?”
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/14/2014 11:18:30 PM
I didn't complete this portion:


Interestingly, I made a decision to casual date and have no inclination to be in a relationship or get married and guess what the guys are all over me to committ.
Many times things like this happen for reasons very different than a person lets theirself realize. When you made your decision, are you sure that in that process you didn't unknowingly change some other things about yourself and how you act that would be the real reasons for the result that you believe that you're observing...completely different than just turning away from relationships or marriage and going to casual date?

This may seem like an odd example, but it's still showing a similar dynamic like what I'm talking about - I'll observe a woman become 'disillusioned' about men, not being able to find a 'good one', and so decide to 'go lez' and look for a woman, and she finds a very good woman...and then she draws the conclusion that there aren't any good men but only good women, or other weird conclusions. However, when she decided to look for a woman, the way that she looked and dated, etc, completely changed...changed in the way that would find someone a good man or woman, but a way that she didn't want to employ when looking for a man.

Or, she's adopting lower standards or simpler criteria for her lez-experience, and so deceiving herself into believing that the lez experience is better than with men by not noticing that what she was looking for in women was not the same as what she was looking for in men...yet judging them both against each other as if all other factors were equal.

Also:

Men dont mature until they are at least 29 and I feel that is the ideal time to start having a family and be committed. They have travelled often and sown their wild oats, by then. However being married is no guarantee the guy will feel committed and they are not naturally monogamous anyway. To vow to love one person forever is just a foolish statement to make.
We understand men, most of us. Not rocket science.

As I’ve said before….you can only claim these things to be true of the type of men that you choose to associate with. If you choose to view men a certain way, then that’s the type of man that you will attract into your reality and is the type that you will experience. The kind of man that you believe that you understand men to be, is the type of man that will be in your world.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 90
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/15/2014 9:24:41 AM
It's really easy. There's TWO people in a relationship (most of them). If you want someone to commit to you, you have to be someone they'd want to commit to. If you're following one of the all too common trends of being a flake, never having the decency to tell the guy that you have to change plans, dating other guys, always being "busy" when they want to do something... Well, they're not going to commit to you.

Guys aren't dumb. When it comes to stuff like this where it's more than sex, you better have more going for you than looks and girl parts. We also see through WAY more lies than you think we do. Avoid those common lines like "I was busy"for your reason that you couldn't return a call for 3 days. After 50 times hearing that as the same excuse for the same things, we kind of catch on. We can tell when that other guy is way more than a friend. We can tell when we're your second choice. Honestly, if you're that girl, would you commit to you?

All you have to do, is a 1 step solution: GENUINELY be the type of person he'd want to commit to.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 93
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Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/15/2014 1:44:02 PM
It's not true that sex use to be hard to find and now it's around every corner. It's always been around every corner, it's always been a big draw between people. In fact it use to be more common, couples use to date by lying in bed together (it was cold in the day or yore), with something between them (like it stayed there ;-)). Of course humans have always had sex, but birth control was iffy at best, so getting married was better than having babies unwed. But babies were often born out of wedlock. It never meant that the father was the same or that the wife was only with her husband. Just like sex, cheating was always common. But proving parentage was hard to do, heck even if you thought you had perfect proof, you may not have.

If you have to make someone commit to you, you haven't gained what you hoped for, unless you are into drama & control and are hoping for a long term of attention-getting play acting. You should be committing to each other because it's what you both want. If you think all women are out to 'get' you or all men are cads, then you probably shouldn't be dating them. Drama Drama Drama, so many problems come from people not facing their own need for drama.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 94
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/15/2014 10:51:14 PM
http://www.simplysolo.com/relationships/getting_men_to_commit.html

Re-read that entire article - and switch the gender of all the pronouns around - "Men" to "Women", "She" to "He" - it isn't any less true.

The major flaw in the whole idea of "Getting" someone to commit is exactly that - people decide to commit when they are ready, when they are capable and willing to do so -- not because anyone "got" them to do it. Anyone that encourages/forces the issue before it's "time" is doing so at their own peril.

People work at different paces, different values, and different time lines - rarely is any two people absolutely in 'sync' with each other... so the decision to commit always requires a LITTLE leap of faith from BOTH parties to get to a common goal. Pushing for it to happen helps no one. Asking for it means you're willing to take that risk, too.

What I think seems to be missing a lot of the time is some serious self-examination. People want to look out to their partner for that 'sign' that they are the one, yet do very little to make sure their own lives are in-order and capable of handling that commitment themselves. The gist of that article seems to spell that out - don't ask for someone to make that leap of faith unless you're willing to do it yourself, no matter how rough the landing may be. People always seem to be willing to extend a hand out to their partner to catch them - but they'll never make that leap themselves. You both gotta jump together if you want to land at the same time.
 AnEvilGenius1
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 96
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/18/2014 6:40:49 PM
Nothing more than a plan for future disasters.


Here's a novel idea, rather than trying to make someone the right person and go against everything natural in the world, how about you just find the right person and everything will just fall into place as and when it all should. If the person isn't right for you there is nothing you can say or do will make that person right for you, just like there is nothing you can say or do to turn the right person away from you.

Yes, life really is that easy!
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 97
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/19/2014 10:10:24 AM

I don't try anymore in relationships. They come and go.
But it's sad really. Because deep down I really do want that lasting bond with someone.

I can't believe I'm quoting YODA for this one...
No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try.
If you want that lasting bond with someone, you 'Do' - you don't 'Try'. A 'Try' is a test drive. When you have enough confidence and trust in yourself and your partner, you don't hesitate about anything. You Do.

Here's a hint:
That little voice that keeps chirping the 'What Ifs' and the 'Not Sure's and all those little insecurities you have about a relationship, it doesn't stop at JUST your relationship. It's whispering in your ear ALL the damn time, about all kinds of decisions.

That's why people keep preaching to get rid of your OWN demons first before worrying about others and their issues. Your previous boyfriends/girlfriends/relationships aren't holding you down anymore - you're done with them, right? You're free! But why doesn't it feel right? Simple - because you're NOT free of them - your tendencies and habits that got into the last 23-24 messes are STILL there. Your dependency of having more of the same around in your life because that is what you are USED to being around has just as strong of a 'pull' as a need for nicotine for smokers. The mind blowingly difficult problem for people is to recognize is their OWN habitual needs or wants or desires. Once you can identify them, you can isolate and destroy them, one by one.

When you're ready to 'Do' a relationship, it WILL happen - and it doesn't take a 'picker' with the skill of a surgeon to find the right one - because that's when you realize 'good enough' actually IS 'Good Enough' and a relationship is not about 'proving' yourself to each other so much as it is working WITH each other.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 98
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/19/2014 10:41:29 AM
1)the best way to avoid issues? not have any. no, seriously. handle your problems.

if you need a partner to be your mommy, you aren't worth marrying. who wants to marry a child before they have children? Well, the unhealthy person who wants a victim.

2)how to get your man to commit? be worth commiting to. not a whackjob who should be commited.

which person would you rather buy a car for the summer from, the owner of a cherry Corvette who isn't interested in selling b/c its in great working condition, or a used car salesman who is desperate to unload a lemon on you to the point he keeps chasing you down and calling you at work?

follow step one. it helps you obtain step two...tho you may decide you're not in so much of a hurry anymore.
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/19/2014 3:29:06 PM
0ldhag:

But it's sad really. Because deep down I really do want that lasting bond with someone

Oops. You better be careful there. Better watch what you say. Or you'll hear all about how you are "in pain" or aren't capable of "being happy alone" or "being ok with yourself"...you are caring about it too much, trying too hard, worrying or stressing over it.

...and of course, you're encouraging a bit of a contradiction in yourself there. You should not care about it so much or think of it very seriously? Or deep down you really really wanting a lasting bond with someone? Should "quite happy alone" be equated with...with...what?

Whazzup girlfriend?! You best schnapp out of it! Oooh, snap!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 100
Avoiding Issues and getting your Man to Commitment in a Relationship!
Posted: 3/19/2014 4:03:03 PM
In my experiences, observations, understandings-
solid committed relationships don't come about because one partner "got" the other partner to DO anything...it was a mutual, natural, organic process/progression. Yes of course this doesn't always happen with completely seamless smoothness, but nobody is figuring out how to "play their cards right" or "act" a certain way, in oder to "get" someone to do something.
And-even certifiable whack jobs manage to find partners.
Obviously one does have to make an effort to be reasonably appealing and have some social skills/graces.

Yeah, I reckon most of us do want that lasting bond-or to find it again. Why else would we be here at a dating site?
But I think it's possible to develop some acceptance, patience and a willingness to let the Universe unfold as it should. without being unhappy, desperate, "in pain". Not everyone is flying into a panic and spending every spare moment consuming advice about how to get a member or the opposite sex to "commit".

I think it's entirely possible to feel ambivalent about the whole pairing-up thing, (especially if one has been there a few times) but not ready or willing to totally ditch the quest. I do not think this mindset is indicative of some social or emotional flaw/defect.

That's why people keep preaching to get rid of your OWN demons first

LOL
Sorry, my demons and I have been together all our lives and have no intentions of quitting each other now. They and I have been through a lot together, including marriage and relationships. Get rid of 'em?
I don't think so. If there is somebody out there whose demons like my demons, we'll be golden-if not?- OH WELL...

Cindy O
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