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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > "It's okay, the past is behind you" - Discuss      Home login  
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 davdo
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 14
It's okay, the past is behind you - DiscussPage 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Past is Prologue. Past performance or reactions predict future behavior. Some things in the past you leave behind, other things will accompany you the rest of your life and you filter your actions and reactions accordingly. I find it an exception to meet people who can actually let go of their past.

I think of it like a backpack or bag you carry, how heavy it is depends on whether you take things out of it not.
 Vagabond1975
Joined: 10/1/2009
Msg: 15
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 4/9/2010 3:04:14 PM

As I understand if we keep re-living the past, we bring up the same emotional or chemical response and for some this can be a contribiting factor to several diseases like; heart disease, diabetes, and cancer to name a few.


soooo....
if you have had an extremely sh*tty life, with every nice prospect it all turned to sh*t beyond your control.. wich means you can't really enjoy yourself or open up.. keep reliving the trauma's and get cancer for instance because of constant reliving experiences..
it would be safe to say the past is INSIDE you...

:S
 LeCutter
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 16
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 4/23/2010 12:04:44 AM
Well, that would be super if no one ever remembered anything, unfortunately they do. The past may behind you, but you only mover forward predicated on the past.

As a wiser man than I once wrote.....


"There is always a reason. Whenever anything has been mucked up, whenever anything outrageous happens, there is a reason for it. You still have a mucked-up, outrageous situation on your hands, however, and explaining it does not alleviate it one bit. If someone does something really rotten, there is a reason for it. Learn it, if you care.... The fact is the thing that remains.... Acts and their consequences are the things by which our fellows judge us. Anything else, and all that you get is a cheap feeling of moral superiority by thinking how you would have done something nicer if it had been you."
--the character "Corwin", narrating The Hand of Oberon by Roger Zelazny

The past is with you always...always.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 17
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History
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 4/23/2010 9:43:18 PM
Disregarding the esoteric bit at the end of the post for the moment, I would answer that INDEED, what is past is beyond our control. However, the CONSEQUENCES of past actions, extend into the present and sometimes well into the future. No high-level philosophical consideration is necessary to know that since my car melted it's power steering reservoir onto its own pump assembly in the immediate PAST, that I will need as replacement vehicle in the very near FUTURE.
The only thing to watch out for in such discussions, is for those who would use the transience of our temporal continuum, as an excuse NOT to pay their incurred physical, monetary, and/or emotional debts.
On a SLIGHTLY more esoteric level, an Historian knows that, although TECHNICALLY it is correct to allow that "anything is POSSIBLE" in the future, from a realistic standpoint, every action in the past and present, serves to LIMIT and/or DIRECT or even CAUSE other actions in the present and future. Therefore I would say that to describe the future as hazy, inconsistent and vague, would be MOSTLY wrong. The future tends to be THOROUGHLY consistent with what has gone before, since the future is a RESULT of so much of it. The Past is only as foggy and unknown as our ability to find records of it, or failure or refusal to look at it frankly.
I am mostly pragmatic about such things: I refuse to let anyone use carelessly constructed philosophical meanderings, as an excuse to be irresponsible in the present.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 18
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 4/29/2010 3:20:16 PM
Learn about personalty disorders, psych illness's

Oh and if the saying is right "we are what we eat" ?
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 19
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 5/25/2010 6:37:35 PM

I feel that what happenes in the past CAN shape someones future, and this philosophy of forget the past, it has no relivance to you and "only you are responsible for your own actions" is nonsence!
Other peoples actions and your past CAN have ab effect and determine your own actions in the future ect.
Past events can also have very profound and great effect, negative or positve, on your overall health aswell!


Surprisingly just because you honestly feel it to be true doesnt make it true.

Past will have relavance

How you react to the past is largely due to conditioning

You can choose to condition yourself to choose how you will react

The aim is not to forget the past but to get a different perspective

If you are sure you can only react one way to the event you have limited yourself

If that is the case find a good book or cognitive councilor
 bliss.stars
Joined: 6/12/2009
Msg: 20
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 5/31/2010 8:27:15 PM
^^ well said island!!

realist had a point too, don't fret over the things you can't change.
although it is in the past, some things should always be with you so you can LEARN and make better judgments in your future.

its all in the balance of learning to let go and forgiving yourself/others, moving forward with gained wisdom taken from those past experiences.
 i_am_ausar
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 21
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 6/4/2010 11:45:02 PM
your friend is right in a theosophy point of view and in other aspects as well. "the past is behind us" is like telling someone its ok you are committing a crime the warrants havent been allocated yet. while living with what you regret is an observance of the passing of time and your awareness of present; it is also impossible at present to not know that the past is what "is behind" or a constitution of present.
 Inicia
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 22
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 6/5/2010 1:05:47 AM
all I know is I am all that I am.. IMO: Today is the present that I have: unopened and fresh.. yesterday is over its wrapping paper discarded waste: another new keepsake trinket that belongs to me and tommorrow isn't here yet, for it is not purchased until I unwrap today...
 i_am_ausar
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 23
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 6/5/2010 5:25:58 AM
the weird thing about this is that in the past who you were was coming into being who you know as yourself as having been; thus complicating the present and changing who you really are making you not ever be who you were.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 24
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/10/2010 9:01:34 AM
Time is a dimension just like length or width,


Not quite. To treat time as a dimension, the spacetime must be hyperbolic, not euclidean. In particular, the measure of distance is given by ds^2 = -dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2, NOT ds^2 = dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2. Among other things, the consequences are that at any spacetime point (the event you call now), spacetime is divided into 4 quandrants. Points you can never reach are defined by positive values for ds^2. These points are said to seperated by spacelike intervals. Points which are seperated by spacelike intervals are also called simulataneous (or may be made simultaneous by a change of coordinates, i.e., a Lorentz transformation). Simultaneous events happen at the same time. The fact that one may define coordinates that will make the two points simultaneous, means that spacelike points cannot be time ordered, thus ruling out any absolute definition of ``now.''

Negative values for ds^2 are called timelike intervals and therefore, define you past and future. As you move forward in time, you trace out a spacetime trajectory called a worldline. You can rotate in any plane defined by two spatial axes without having to traverse a spacelike region, so you can turn around in space. Because of the negative sign in the metric, ds^2, you cannot rotate in a plane defined by a spatial axis and time axis such that you could turn around in time to reach points in your past. (A rotation in a plane defined by a spatial axis and the time axis is a change in velocity.) Timelike events are always time ordered.

In addition, regardless of the coordinates chosen, ds^2 will always hae the same value, so every observer will agree on which events are spacelike, timelike or null. (This is the same as with the pythagorean theorem, ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2. You can redefine the x and y axes to get different values in different coordinate systems, but the length of the hypotenuse will not change. The spacetime metric is just the 4-dimenional version of the pythagorean theorm for a Lorentzian spacetime.)


So what I'm trying to say, does it make more sense to say that our past is in front of us, and not behind us?

No. Two events (i.., spacetime points) are causally related if there exists a (timelike) worldline than can connect them. Events in the past precede events in the future, which is the definition of causal. You are abusing words ``front'' and ``behind,'' (which is already an abuse those words when applying them time, but at least mean something which is clear) and you are trying to make the meaning unclear.


We have no way to perceive what time looks like when it's not 'now', so trying to define a past or future event will always be fail, because you lack the ability to define a frame of reference with any certainty.

You cannot uniquely define any absolute reference frame, but you can define your own reference frame with certainty. In special relativity. Such a frame is called inertial (or unaccelerated or force-free). You can define it globally, too. Every other inertial frame will be related by a spacetime rotation (3 spatial roatations and 3 spacetime rotations called boosts or changes of velocity, 3 spatial translations and 1 time translation). If you assume that nature knows nothing about coordinate systems and drop the restriction to inertial frames to allow for completely general coordinate transformations, you automagically get a theory of gravity called the general theory of relativity.


Hence, any reference to the past or future must always be hazy, inconsistent, and vague.

On the contrary, the general theory of relativity (and hence gravity) is a consequence of the past and future not being hazy, inconsistent and vague.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 25
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History
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/13/2010 12:38:52 AM
Well, I think that the best path to enlightenment is to move "into the moment". Alan Watts and my interest in Zen Buddhism awakened that process in my life. If you look at all the great minds that have come to that same conclusion (in many different cultures and religions) so it does strike me as a key thing.


I have realized that the past and future are real illusions, that they exist in the present, which is what there is and all there is. Alan Watts

Real generosity toward the future lies in giving all to the present.
Albert Camus

Children have neither past nor future; they enjoy the present, which very few of us do.
Jean de la Bruyere

We are always getting ready to live but never living.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Rejoice in the things that are present; all else is beyond thee.
Montaigne

One of the most tragic things I know about human nature is that all of us tend to put off living. We are all dreaming of some magical rose garden over the horizon - instead of enjoying the roses that are blooming outside our windows today.
Dale Carnegie

You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment. Fools stand on their island opportunities and look toward another land. There is no other land, there is no other life but this.
Henry David Thoreau


What happened to you in the past can impact on how you see the present.

The problem is not many people actually live "in the moment", it's not that common.

When's the last time you ever really focused on what you are doing right now; eating a meal, walking down the street, cleaning up your house ? Far too many times people do these things while mentally somewhere else, timewise. They drift between the past and future, and seldom stop right in the "now".

Sometimes, you can think too much, you know ?

That thinking can separate you from enjoying whatever you are doing NOW.

Ever lose yourself in something, like your work or art ? Not thinking, just totally focused on what your doing ?

It's a most heavenly experience to have.


There is a zen story where the disciples approach the master and ask, "What is the secret of awakening". The monk took his brush and wrote on the paper, "attention". The disciples said that they did not understand so the monk again wrote, "Attention". Still the disciples said that they did not understand and so the monk took the brush and wrote "Attention, attention, attention".

You don't need to try to do or be anything, just pay attention.

A Koan...
One day, while walking through the wilderness, a traveller came face to face with a vicious grizzly bear. The man did an about face and ran for his life with the bear in hot pursuit.

The man ran and ran until he came to the edge of a cliff and could not run any further. The bear being almost upon him, left th man with little option but to climb over the side of the cliff holding onto a vine that he had spotted.

Halfway down the cliff, the man looked down and saw there at the bottom tiger, baring its fangs and waiting for his arrival. He was now caught between the bear above and the tiger below... .

To make matters worse, 2 rats, one a white one and the other black appeared, and climbed onto the vine above him and started gnawing on it.....He knew that if the rats kept gnawing they would soon chew away the vine and reach a point when it would no longer be able to support his weight. It would break and he would fall. He tried to shoo the rats away, but they kept coming back.

At that moment, out of the corner of his eye, the man glimpsed something roundish and red, and to his amazement he saw that it was a strawberry growing on the face of the cliff, not far away from him. It looked wonderfully red, plump and ripe. Holding onto the vine with one hand and reaching out with the other, he plucked it.


"In the midst of life there is death and in the midst of death there is life"

With a bear above, and another wild beast below, and the rats continuing to gnaw on the vine, the man tasted the strawberry and found it absolutely delicious.

Despite his precarious predicament the traveller chose not to let unrealized dangers immobilize him. He seized the moment and savored it.

The Koan of Living in the Present Moment of course contains quite a number of metaphors. The major elements in the story, such as the cliff top,the bear,the tiger,the rats and the strawberry are all representations that contain much deeper meanings.

Firstly the traveller traversing the wilderness is a person making his or her way through life...it is where he or she has been up until the moment he or she comes face to face with the bear....The cliff top symbolizes where the past is about to become the present. It's where the person has reached in their journey from where they started out from(birth). In terms of each human beings place in personal time , this metaphor refers to all of their experiences and memories from the life they have already lived.

Now if the person in the story was to stop halfway down the the cliff and begin climbing back up the vine again toward the top of the cliff, they then would be trying to revisit the past. The bear waiting at the top is a representation of the danger of attempting this. If person constantly get down on themselves and beating themselves up for not being able to do certain things as well as they might or should have, or if they wade and wallow about in regret and shame over mistakes and errors of judgement, then they will be caught by the bear and it will wound,bite,tear or worse yet maim them with its sharp claws and teeth. If negative experiences from the past are not let go of, experiences that make a person timid and afraid, or have them feeling like victims because they come from traumatic or abusive backgrounds, then the bear has bitten them painfully and tasted blood.

Yes the bear stands in and blocks the the way of and denotes the impossibility of going backward into the past in an attempt to fix anything. All of us would sorely like to do this,try to turn back the hands of the clock and do certain things over again the "right" way. We might have thought of the perfect way to ask someone out on a date who much to our reget we never did approach, had a perfect witty and sarcastic, jaw dropping comeback for a person who perhaps insulted or slighted us..maybe we said something or acted in a hurtful way to a loved one or friend and would do anything to take it back. Unfortunately, even if we could climb back up the vine hanging over the cliff edge, the feral grizzly guards the top of the cliff, and there is no way for us to get passed it.

As the top of the cliff is a metaphor for what has already been and passed, so too the bottom of the cliff represents time in the other direction, what is yet to come.It is the future,things yet to come to pass, the unknown next moment, time without a human footprint upon it. The future contains all of our hopes,dreams,insecurities and fears, aspirations, disappointments, perhaps victories and potential setbacks. It is the unwritten chapters and the untrodden road of tomorrow.

If the person climbs down the vine towards the bottom of the cliff,then they are looking ahead, anticipating and speculating about the future. The waiting tiger in this instance represents the danger of being overly troubled about that which is not yet here, in particular if it means that it would hinder the persons ability to act, or to be able to maintain peace of mind.

Truth be known, endless numbers of us have had the experience of obssessively worrying ourselves sick, over and over about an soon to be speech,date, exam, job interview or some other thing. Our minds rehearse any number of things that can and could go wrong. We lose or indeed cannot sleep because we're too on edge and nervous about the day following.

So what happens when the events of the following day eventuate?. Well it is very likely that our inability to relax will make things go worse!. We will not able to put our best foot forward..the ability to channel all that nervous energy into effective action will elude us and instead, it turn into negative tension and stress. We will have climbed too near the bottom of the cliff and too close to the tiger, allowing it lash out at us with it claws.

Down at the bottom of the cliff the awaiting tiger of course also represents the ultimate conclusion of our lives in death.the utter finality. Death is hanging about there with infinite patience and determination to claim each and every one us at some future date.It wont be taking the day off on the day our number is up. Death knows that sooner or later we will be within its icey grip and when that time draws near, the wild beast will roar at us from the cliff bottom, and we will feel the chill winds of our own soon to be mortal passing.

http://rrr.kimcm.dk/Royce/koan.html



So, I guess the point of it all is to just enjoy the srawberry when you come across it.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 26
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/13/2010 5:51:06 AM
^^Thanks for that
Do rats like strawberries ?
Ah decisions
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 27
view profile
History
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/13/2010 10:14:39 AM
I'd like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for everything I did and said before I was 21.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 28
view profile
History
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/13/2010 2:15:41 PM

Do rats like strawberries ?
Ah decisions


The thing is, if you actually wait and think about it, the rat may in fact decide that for you first - and leave you hanging there without any more strawberries to savour.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 29
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/13/2010 5:18:26 PM
The thing is, if you actually wait and think about it, the rat may in fact decide that for you first - and leave you hanging there without any more strawberries to savour.

Well I was thinking in terms of going halves with the mice

Which really brings us to the nub of the thing

We can know our past (only as much as we have perceived and remember it)

We can know our present (only as much as we perceive it)

We can only know our future as possibilities (only as much as we can imagine)

Often its faith (and a good imagination) that there is more possibilities than we can imagine that gets us through to find them
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 30
It's okay, the past is behind you - Discuss
Posted: 9/29/2010 9:33:51 AM

Pushing a discussion of the past n future with scientific view vs a view of human connections and interactions is stifling.

Not if you're really interested in understanding the human view. It's only stifling if your interested in only a superficial discussion.
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