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 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 102
heaven- a punishment or a reward...Page 7 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First point - nobody knows for certain what out-of-body experiences really ARE. For all we know, they may be nothing more than highly lucid dreams.

Second - if fear of punishment in an afterlife is the only thing preventing you from stepping on kittens, then you are a sorry individual indeed...
 rustytraveler
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 103
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/24/2010 11:15:42 PM

Sorta tells me that we spend too much time in the "middle" -- not taking time for the "little but meaningful" things, nor stretching out as far as we're capable.


Well there it is..... the art of living each day as if this is heaven on earth and the last day of our lives and being accountable for our ideals and actions now... I don't really need a book to have compassion, a conscience or a mind ... and I can pretty much eliminate any desire to smoosh kittens.
Maybe if everyone wasn't so busy hedging their bets and starting strife one religion to another... they would simply be more tolerant and humane.
But the human animal is a fickled beast isn't it?
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 106
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/25/2010 11:45:26 AM
Specifically the Papyrus of Ani records that one must confront 42 different gods and confess that they have not broken any of the specific sins that these gods watch for. And the gods do not ask "Have you ever" as in a dialogue, the penitent soul simply confesses:



A second second trial was that the deceased would have to recite a negative confession "when [she or] he descends to the hall of the Two Truths." In the statement, he or she swore that they had not engaged in specific behaviors while alive. According to Egyptologist Ahmed Osman, one translation of the statement reads:

"Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10cl.htm

The law codes that many people believe created by the Hebrew faith are predated by so many other law codes that it bears mention, especially Hammurabi and the Egyptian law codes and these spells/confessions of the spirits from the Book of the Dead.

While the OP was discussing whether the Christian ideal of heaven did it for you or not, I think it's germane to explore where their idea of heaven had it's origins. It seems pretty clear that it developed from earlier polytheistic faith traditions in the near East but eventually got sanitized and puritanized for the prudish and restrained new flock who's worst fear, compared to the pagan world, was that someone, somewhere, might be having too good a time
 lateā„¢
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 107
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/25/2010 11:59:32 AM
wtf - crazy

It's all relative, isn't it?


sanitized and puritanized for the prudish and restrained new flock who's worst fear, compared to the pagan world, was that someone, somewhere, might be having too good a time


Here's the take on who goes to heaven according to the often contradictory interpretations of what has been described at RationalWiki as:



Christianity in a nutshell

Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.


Hah ha... according to the various interpretations...


Some theories on exactly what people need to do to be saved are:
Faith and works: The Catholic and Orthodox churches take a meritocratic view, claiming salvation through both faith and works (the RCC also has a heavy investment in social services in most countries in which it is active). This means that you need to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus and lead a good, moral, charitable life.
Sola fide: Many Protestant believers, on the other hand, subscribe to the doctrine of sola fide ("by faith alone"), in which good works are unnecessary for salvation.[2] Some Protestants maintain that baptism into the church is required for salvation, while others take a more decentralized view and hold that it is simply believing that does it; this is a process known as "becoming saved" or "being born again".
Unconditional election: This is a central tenet of Calvinism. In Calvinism, people have no free will; God is in complete control of the universe, and therefore God is the one who decides whether they have faith or not. Consequently, God must choose who is saved and who is not; those who are saved are known as the "elect," and have been elected unconditionally with no regard to the beliefs or actions of each individual human. Today, hyper-Calvinism, on which Dominionism is based, takes this idea to its logical extreme.
Universalism: This holds that Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for all humanity's sins regardless of personal acceptance.
Not thinking about it too much: Many Christians aren't really sure what they believe; they just try to lead good lives and hope for the best.

Might as well buy a lottery ticket



Great site: http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 108
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/25/2010 1:45:38 PM
Guys, I dont make fun of your beliefs. I dont shove mine around either.
What we are is what we are, and we can all accept each other as is.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 109
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/27/2010 4:00:42 PM
Excuse me young man but what your comment says to me is you are not a nice person.
How ever there is even hope for you.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 110
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/27/2010 5:15:38 PM

How dare you criticize my religious beliefs!


If your beliefs can't stand up to a little criticism, it's time to re-evaluate them altogether.
 PregnantLady
Joined: 3/1/2010
Msg: 111
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 4/30/2010 8:30:00 AM
I hope to make it to Heavan.. so I guess reward
 asianpeachqTea
Joined: 5/5/2011
Msg: 112
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History
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/1/2012 6:31:51 PM
A late addition but I Like this Thread
Post. BTW Some Christians/Catholics..Idk which but those who BeLieve in God &or Jesus Christ say that when we die we donot become Angels so what are we than?Just absorbed into God?&There are Angels yes but diff.sects classes of them.Its still interesting Knowledge though.Anyhoo.Can you imagine being in Heaven with anyone who did harm? Yet find forgiveness there & love then disgust just like that.Are we the Beings in Heaven able to stay & leave to go as we please to even be reborn or to guide whom we know. If one cannot find the way to Heaven why not one already there help.To think of not being with family again is a frightening concept. I would like Heaven to be..well one having all creatures would be a Blessing.Able to Fly is a Gift. But not forgetting the
world that is not Heaven would make it worthwhile complete.To be endlessly blissful is nice but sounds idk,weak of us.Hard to explain..to be cont.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 113
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 5:30:37 AM

heaven- a punishment or a reward...

It is a carrot put on the end of the religious stick to keep you doing what they want you to do.




heaven- in the bible- exists in the literal interpretation-

Taking the bible literally is an epic fail at understanding what the bible is, and would be the same as taking a Harry Potter book literally.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 114
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 6:10:09 AM
Having seen and dealt with the kinds of people who believe in "Heaven", I'd rather go to Hell than spend eternity with them.

My faith believes in the Summerlands, where the spirit goes to rest and reflect and learn from their lifes lessons before re-incarnating. I prefer it.
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 115
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 6:15:05 AM

Having seen and dealt with the kinds of people who believe in "Heaven", I'd rather go to Hell than spend eternity with them.
Judging by your posts I don't think that will be a problem...

Anything for an eternity is probably going to suck a little but If I get to choose I Choose Heaven,,,,
 irishlab33
Joined: 1/16/2011
Msg: 116
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 6:28:28 AM
On one hand we have:


My faith believes in the Summerlands, where the spirit goes to rest and reflect and learn from their lifes lessons before re-incarnating. I prefer it.


Very cool belief.

On the other hand........................same poster:


Having seen and dealt with the kinds of people who believe in "Heaven", I'd rather go to Hell than spend eternity with them.


Thanks for wrapping up the "heaven" believers is a nice bundle.

I think I'll save this little quote for when you go on one of your tolerance/intolerance rants.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 117
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 6:32:02 AM
^^^
Rush Limbaugh, Andrew Breitbart, and a few others I could name believe in "Heaven". Every hateful Fundie claims a place in "Heaven". AND they believe they're going there. You may want to share space eternal with the likes of them, but I'll pass.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 118
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 6:42:23 AM

Rush Limbaugh, Andrew Breitbart, and a few others I could name believe in "Heaven". Every hateful Fundie claims a place in "Heaven". AND they believe they're going there. You may want to share space eternal with the likes of them, but I'll pass.

Well seeing as Breitbart is dead now, maybe he knows for sure that he is nothing more than bio-mass.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 119
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 9:06:01 AM

Having seen and dealt with the kinds of people who believe in "Heaven", I'd rather go to Hell than spend eternity with them.


And the feeling is probably mutual, but..... there is that whole love your fellow man as yourself thing so they keep presenting the option.....
 bohemianmoonchild333
Joined: 5/13/2011
Msg: 120
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/2/2012 10:37:04 AM
For me, it's neither. I choose not to entertain the concepts of either heaven nor hell.
 irishlab33
Joined: 1/16/2011
Msg: 121
heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/3/2012 7:15:56 AM

Rush Limbaugh, Andrew Breitbart, and a few others I could name believe in "Heaven". Every hateful Fundie claims a place in "Heaven". AND they believe they're going there. You may want to share space eternal with the likes of them, but I'll pass.


Some people preach tolerance, others practice it.
 Rokei57
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 122
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heaven- a punishment or a reward...
Posted: 3/3/2012 8:44:08 AM
I'm beginning to believe this is hell we are living in now....and that heaven is a much better place.
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