Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!      Home login  
 Random Entry
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 50
view profile
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

TROLL DETECTED and unverifiable rumor.

Some so called "Hallucinogenic expert" came on and totally freaked out. Excuse me, for all my years of listening, of not remembering the exact name of the person. It hardly makes me a troll. It makes me an average person with an average memory... often worst as one is falling to sleep with the radio on. Chillax.
Joined: 9/9/2010
Msg: 51
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/13/2010 4:13:56 PM
have read some news that Canadian military doctors are saying that MDMA (a/k/a "Ecstasy") may be useful in treating people with PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 52
view profile
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/21/2010 10:35:02 PM
There's some amazing studies out there, with real advances that have been made (and are still being made) in the use of these drugs (and others). One person I know, a teacher, was quite shocked when I pointed them out to her.

The reasons they won't be probably used center around a few things :

1) The Sixties, and the illegality of said drugs.
2) The fact that, in many cases, these treatments can be effective without long term medication. How are you going to send your kids through college, if you can treat someone with a drug once - and have them profoundly alter their lives for decades afterwards.
3) It has a spiritual center, which a white lab coat may not be able to use/measure effectively, typically.

Ever read about Hoffman's tripping ? The Neil Armstrong of LSD ?

What constitutes the essential, characteristic difference between everyday reality and the world picture experienced in LSD inebriation? Ego and the outer world are separated in the normal condition of consciousness, in everyday reality; one stands face-to-face with the outer world; it has become an object. In the LSD state the boundaries between the experiencing self and the outer world more or less disappear, depending on the depth of the inebriation. Feedback between receiver and sender takes place. A portion of the self overflows into the outer world, into objects, which begin to live, to have another, a deeper meaning. This can be perceived as a blessed, or as a demonic transformation imbued with terror, proceeding to a loss of the trusted ego. In an auspicious case, the new ego feels blissfully united with the objects of the outer world and consequently also with its fellow beings. This experience of deep oneness with the exterior world can even intensify to a feeling of the self being one with the universe. This condition of cosmic consciousness, which under favorable conditions can be evoked by LSD or by another hallucinogen from the group of Mexican sacred drugs, is analogous to spontaneous religious enlightenment, with the unio mystica. In both conditions, which often last only for a timeless moment, a reality is experienced that exposes a gleam of the transcendental reality, in which universe and self, sender and receiver, are one.

Albert Hofmann

And a truckload of others....

Participants eager to describe their modern-day spiritual LSD experiences were encouraged to contribute to a library of drug experiences on the Erowid website. Earth and Fire Erowid, who operate the site, presented a sampling of comments at the symposium and documented the two to five known deaths that have been associated with LSD.

Geri Beil of Cologne, Germany, who attended the symposium, recalled his own ecstatic LSD experience on an Indian beach on New Year's day, 2000. "I was crying from happiness, so thankful to my parents that they created me," said Beil. "This experience has not disappeared; it has had a lasting effect."

Like Herbert, many scientists and engineers also report heightened states of creativity while using LSD. During a press conference on Friday, Hofmann revealed that he was told by Nobel-prize-winning chemist Kary Mullis that LSD had helped him develop the polymerase chain reaction that helps amplify specific DNA sequences.

"When you study natural science and the miracles of creation, if you don't turn into a mystic you are not a natural scientist," said Hofmann.

In his presentation, artist Alex Grey noted that Nobel-prize-winner Francis Crick, discoverer of the double helical structure of DNA, also told friends he received inspiration for his ideas from LSD, according to news reports.

The gathering included a discussion of how early computer pioneers used LSD for inspiration. Douglas Englebart, the inventor of the mouse, Myron Stolaroff, a former Ampex engineer and LSD researcher who was attending the symposium, and Apple-cofounder Steve Jobs were among them. In the 2005 book What the Dormouse Said, New York Times reporter John Markoff quotes Jobs describing his LSD experience as "one of the two or three most important things he has done in his life."

Steve Jobs....yes .....THAT Steve Jobs...... the inventor of the computer mouse you are perhaps using right now....Nobel Prize winning scientists.....

And this has been proven to be true, in some important and neglected studies.

I mean think about even the Sixties, and the early people involved like Ken Kesey. These were people that had been "lab rats" themselves, and saw what was going on on the inside. University intellectuals that did things like invite the Hell's Angels over for a little Electric Kool Aid.

Now that mix of people isn't something that would typically mingle, to say the least.

A Hell's Angel, certainly no stranger to popping anything and everything they could find, isn't the type of person that handing some strange new substance to and turning them into a lab rat would be typically described as being a "good thing" , in such circumstances.

The ultimate example of Kesey's attempt to get everybody into the Prankster movie was when he turned on the hoariest outlaw group of them all, the Hell's Angels. Kesey had met the Angels in the summer of 1965 through Hunter Thompson, the notorious Doctor of Gonzo, who was then writing a book about the motorcycle gang. Whatever the reason (perhaps the bit of redneck in Kesey), he smoked a joint with some of the Angels and they hit it off right away. "We're in the same business," Kesey told them. "You break people's bones, I break people's heads." He invited his new friends to La Honda for a party. The Pranksters laid in unlimited quantities of beer and strung a huge banner across the lawn welcoming the Hell's Angels. The bash would be a reunion of sorts; the old Perry Lane people were there, along with Allen Ginsberg, Richard Alpert, and a lot of San Francisco and Berkeley intellectuals. The Pranksters got ready for the Angels the way they got ready for anything -- by dropping acid. The local townsfolk prepared themselves by huddling nervously behind locked doors, while the police turned out to greet the visitors with ten squad cars and live ammunition.

Kesey had really done it this time. A bunch of spaced-out bohemians getting high was one thing, but a violent motorcycle gang was something else again. Even among the Pranksters there was some uncertainty about their guests. The trepidation thermometer must have been sky-high as the Angels roared into La Honda with skulls, crossbones, and swastikas embellishing their denim jackets. But once the Angels dug into the beer, the tension eased considerably. The Pranksters were probably the first outsiders actually to accept the Angels. To Kesey's group they were fellow outlaws with just as little tolerance for hypocrisy or compromise. An atmosphere of peaceful coexistence was established, and then acid was doled out as a party favor.

Contrary to certain dire expectations of brutal carnage wreaked by drug-twisted criminals, the LSD made the bikers rather docile. They all walked around in a daze, mingling with the radicals, pacifists, and intellectuals. There was Allen Ginsberg, the epitome of much they despised, a gay New York poet chanting Hare Krishna and dancing with his finger cymbals, and the Angels were actually digging him. It was quite a spectacle. The befuddled policemen stayed outside the grounds with their red flashers blinking through the trees. With so many of the Angels bombed out of their minds, the cops deemed it wise to keep their distance.

The party went on for two days -- a monument to what the Pranksters had set out to accomplish on the '64 bus trip. They had broken through the worst hang-up intellectuals have -- the "real life" hang-up. After this first bash the Angels hung around Kesey's for the next six weeks, attending numerous Prankster parties. Their presence added a certain voltage that was unforgettable for those in attendance. Hunter Thompson wrote that if he could repeat any of his early acid trips, it would be one of the Hell's Angels parties in La Honda. "It was a very electric atmosphere. If the Angels lent a feeling of menace, they also made it more interesting ... and far more alive than anything likely to come out of a controlled experiment or a politely brittle gathering of well-educated truth-seekers looking for wisdom in a capsule. Dropping acid with the Angels was an adventure; they were too ignorant to know what to expect, and too wild to care."

Both The Electric Acid Kool Aid Test, and Hunter Thompson's "Hell's Angels" are fascinating reading.

What occurred (and this was exceptionally pure and high dosage LSD) wasn't at all what you'd expect. No mass murders, fights, mass gang rapes of any nubile hippy chicks.....just....... docile biker's groovin' with the scene.... and a gay poet with finger cymbals.

Try that with any other substance, and and an outlaw biker gang, and get back to me when you get out of intensive care.

And these ferocious consumers of any drug known to Man didn't keep taking acid, perhaps a first for them.

Now, back to those other studies I was talking about....

The CIA actually went through a period early on where they thought LSD was the magic pharmaceutical solution. They'd dose one another's coffees, and then sit back and watch the fun. Not a good way to do it, when one has no idea what' s occurring.

One fellow jumped through a hotel window, and died, without knowing he was on a trip.

Early CIA efforts focused on LSD, which later came to dominate many of MKULTRA's programs.
Once Project MKULTRA officially got underway in April, 1953, experiments included administering LSD to CIA employees, military personnel, doctors, other government agents, prostitutes, mentally ill patients, and members of the general public in order to study their reactions. LSD and other drugs were usually administered without the subject's knowledge or informed consent, a violation of the Nuremberg Code that the U.S. agreed to follow after World War II.

Efforts to "recruit" subjects were often illegal, even though actual use of LSD was legal in the United States until October 6, 1966. In Operation Midnight Climax, the CIA set up several brothels in San Francisco, CA to obtain a selection of men who would be too embarrassed to talk about the events. The men were dosed with LSD, the brothels were equipped with two-way mirrors, and the sessions were filmed for later viewing and study.

Some subjects' participation was consensual, and in these cases they appeared to be singled out for even more extreme experiments. In one case, volunteers were given LSD for 77 consecutive days.

LSD was eventually dismissed by MKULTRA's researchers as too unpredictable in its results. Although useful information was sometimes obtained by questioning subjects after they had ingested LSD, not uncommonly the most marked effect would be the subjects' absolute and utter certainty that they would be able to withstand any form of interrogation, even under physical torture.

OOPS....maybe Kesey was better at using acid, compared to the spooks.

Research a man called Alfred Matthew Hubbard, and his work with LSD. He turned on thousands of important people...

This in itself is highly ironic, since Captain Al was everything the so-called "average" LSD "tripper" was/is not—a well-connected military officer with right-wing friends and associates galore; a long-term hard-working member of the Establishment; a heavy-set, crew-cut, florid-faced rum-drinking sonuva****, by all accounts. His love of— and steely-eyed hopes for the future of—LSD were unique and impressive.

He was introduced to the drug by Dr. Ronald Sandison, who was operating a small LSD-centric clinic in England. "It was the deepest mystical thing I've ever seen," Hubbard remembered. "I saw myself as a tiny mite in a big swamp with a spark of intelligence....It was all so clear."

At the age of 49, Captain Al Hubbard set off to turn on the world, and he started at or very near the top of the food chain: one of the earliest recipients of Hubbard's miracle drug was Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World and The Doors of Perception. "What came through the closed door," remembered Huxley, "was the realization...of Love as the primary and fundamental cosmic fact."

Passionate the good Captain was. For twenty years he turned on thousands of people, from artists to businessmen to statesmen to physicians. "They all thought it was the most marvelous thing," he said. "And I never saw a psychosis in any one of these cases."

Hubbard dreamed of setting up a series of clinics in order to train other LSD researchers. He bought ten thousand doses of the drug from Sandoz Laboratories in Switzerland and kept them in a safe-deposit box in the duty-free section of Zurich's airport. His life-and-love-affirming drug was thereafter shipped duty-free anywhere in the world, until the Swiss government caught up with him.

Hubbard was deported, but with typically creative and expedient thinking, he journeyed to Czechoslovakia, where he bought another 10,000 doses (one GRAM of LSD, by the way) which were put into tablet form by Chemapol, a division of Spofa, the pharmaceutical giant.

To further distance himself from accusations of "criminality," Captain Al procured, under dubious circumstances, a Ph.D. in biopsychology from Taylor University in Kentucky. He was now Dr. Alfred M. Hubbard, clinical therapist, and so impressed with Hubbard's knowledge of biology and sense of humanity was Ross MacLean, the medical superintendent of the Hollywood Hospital in New Westminster, Canada, that he devoted an entire wing of the facility to the study of LSD therapy for chronic alcoholism.

Stunning work was done by the two men there, but the association grew troubled. There was a lot of money involved. MacLean was charging $1000 a dose to his elite patients, which included members of the Canadian Parliament as well as America's Hollywood aristocracy. The Canadian Medical Association grew concerned because of an alleged connection to the CIA's Project MK-ULTRA, and under duress, Dr. Captain Al left, just about the time he was approved for an Investigational New Drug permit by the FDA, which conveniently allowed him to legally experiment with LSD in the United States, particularly involving the treatment of alcoholism. "As a therapist, he was one of the best," said Dr. Myron Stolaroff, to this day a leader in the psychedlic/consciousness movement, who worked with Hubbard until 1965 at the international Federation for Advanced Study in Menlo Park, California.

Those studies with alcoholics were quite effective.

For the past five years, Dr. Erika Dyck has been unearthing some intriguing facts related to a group of pioneering psychiatrists who worked in Saskatchewan, Canada in the '50s and '60s.

Among other things, the University of Alberta history of medicine professor has found records of the psychiatrists' research that indicate a single dose of the hallucinogenic drug LSD, provided in a clinical, nurturing environment, can be an effective treatment for alcoholism.

Her findings are published this month in the journal Social History of Medicine.

After perceiving similarities in the experiences of people on LSD and people going through delirium tremens, the psychiatrists undertook a series of experiments. They noted that delirium tremens, also know as DTs, often marked a "rock bottom" or turning point in the behavior of alcoholics, and they felt LSD may be able to trigger such a turnaround without engendering the painful physical effects associated with DTs.

As it turns out, they were largely correct.

"The LSD somehow gave these people experiences that psychologically took them outside of themselves and allowed them to see their own unhealthy behavior more objectively, and then determine to change it," said Dyck, who read the researchers' published and private papers and recently interviewed some of the patients involved in the original studies--many of whom had not had a sip of alcohol since their single LSD experience 40 years earlier.

According to one study conducted in 1962, 65 per cent of the alcoholics in the experiment stopped drinking for at least a year-and-a-half (the duration of the study) after taking one dose of LSD. The controlled trial also concluded that less than 25 per cent of alcoholics quit drinking for the same period after receiving group therapy, and less than 12 per cent quit in response to traditional psychotherapy techniques commonly used at that time.

Published in the Quarterly Journal for Studies on Alcohol, the 1962 study was received with much skepticism. One research group in Toronto tried to replicate the results of the study, but wanted to observe the effect of LSD on the patients in isolation, so they blindfolded or tied up the patients before giving them the drug. Under such circumstances, the Toronto researchers determined LSD was not effective in treating alcoholism.

The Saskatchewan group argued that the drug needed to be provided in a nurturing environment to be effective. However, the Toronto researchers held more credibility than the Saskatchewan researchers--who were led by a controversial, British psychiatrist, Dr. Humphry Osmond--and the Saskatchewan group's research was essentially buried.

But Dyck believes there is value in the Saskatchewan group's experiments.

"The LSD experience appeared to allow the patients to go through a spiritual journey that ultimately empowered them to heal themselves, and that's really quite an amazing therapy regimen," Dyck said. "Even interviewing the patients 40 years after their experience, I was surprised at how loyal they were to the doctors who treated them, and how powerful they said the experience was for them--some even felt the experience saved their lives."

ONE dose, with the right setting and care giver - and a profound, lasting effect.

From the experience of my generation, someone I know described it as "walking in a room and meeting yourself for the first time..."

For an alcoholic, it must me an " OMG, I'm a pathetic drunk !!! " moment time 1,000.

For others, like those with fatal diseases, it's being used now in Switzerland.

t was May 13, 2008, and it was quiet, as it usually is, in Solothurn, a small, picturesque Baroque town at the foot of the Jura Mountains in Switzerland. The Aare River, a tributary of the Rhine, flows at a more leisurely pace here than it does in the Swiss capital Bern, past Roman walls, the Krummer Turm ("Crooked Tower") and the imposing Cathedral of St. Ursus. There could hardly be a better spot for a study with such a potentially explosive impact on society than this inconspicuous little Swiss town.

The wall of the treatment room was decorated with a red tapestry, a gong, a drum and a portrait of a smiling Buddha. Peter Gasser, a psychiatrist, and fellow therapist Barbara Speich crouched next to the patient on thin foam rubber mats.

They sat there for at least half an hour, waiting. "Then I finally sensed that something was changing in my psyche," recalls Schulz. "Wow, it was fantastic!"

Gasser, 49, ignored media inquiries from around the world for almost one-and-a-half years, so as not to jeopardize his sensitive experiment. Today, as he invites SPIEGEL to visit his practice for the first time, the first thing he does is to make one thing clear: "I am not a messiah, nor am I someone who aims to change society." He is interested exclusively in research, not creeping legalization of the drug, says Gasser, and he wants to demonstrate that LSD can play a positive role in psychotherapy.

The drug's effect has a lot to do with the setting in which it is taken, says Gasser. "We create a relaxed atmosphere here, which is why the patients remain calm." Music is sometimes played in the background during a session, and Gasser occasionally plays the drum which is hanging on the wall. So far, none of the subjects has had a bad trip, he says, and the sedative that is kept on hand for emergencies has never been used. "If you handle LSD with care," the psychiatrist claims, "it isn't any more dangerous than other therapies."

The drug is chemically related to serotonin, a neurotransmitter produced naturally in the body. It affects the same regions of the brain, particularly the limbic system, where sensory input is filtered, processed and evaluated emotionally. LSD essentially disables the filtering function, so that the brain is flooded with information. It also elevates the release of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the so-called corpus striatum, further amplifying sensory overload.

As a result, the drug influences sensory perception, thought and moods. The sense of space and time changes, and the boundary between the self and the environment becomes blurred. This can be perceived as an exhilarating feeling of becoming one with the environment, or as a frightening loss of control over one's body and thoughts. Experts are unanimous in the view that LSD is not physically or emotionally addictive, however.

Within the framework of the study, Gasser is permitted to treat 12 patients suffering from anxiety disorders as a result of a severe physical illness. Eight of them receive a capsule of 200 micrograms of LSD each, in two full-day sessions spaced several weeks apart. The remaining four patients, the control group, receive a dose of 20 micrograms, which is too small to have much of an effect. "With a substance like LSD, a placebo-controlled procedure is, of course, questionable," Gasser admits, noting that the patient quickly realizes what he or she has swallowed. But that is just the way things are done in medicament research, he says.

The Entire Room Suddenly Came Alive'
Udo Schulz finds it difficult to articulate his drug experience. He hesitates as he begins his account. "The potted plant, the tapestry, the entire room suddenly came alive," he says, interlacing his fingers and gazing meditatively out the window. And then, after a pause, he says: "You could say it was a feeling of mystical oneness."

Schulz's problems began in the spring of 2006. He had just started a new job as an orderly in a nursing home. At first, he attributed a growing loss of appetite to the stresses of the job. Then he noticed a feeling of pressure in his stomach after meals. He ate less and lost weight. Finally, a doctor sent him to the nearest hospital. After being hospitalized for several days, he was handed his file and sent to a final examination. "On the way there, I read the file, and I saw that the diagnosis was stomach cancer."

How does one react to this kind of information? "Well, at first I thought: This isn't my file. It's impossible. I've always lived a healthy life," says Schulz, twisting his mouth into a thin smile.

But he realized that he had to undergo surgery. One-third of his esophagus and a large part of his stomach were removed. The doctors did not find any signs that the cancer had spread and so Schulz did not need to do chemotherapy.

After that, however, fear began to dominate his life. He was tormented by the thought of never being productive again, of never regaining his strength, of losing his job and having to give up. He exhausted himself with his efforts to return to work and he suffered from insomnia. Conversational therapy with a psychologist did not help very much.

When Schulz happened upon an article on the Internet about the LSD study in Switzerland, it immediately appealed to him. "The preliminary tests showed that I'm apparently a person who suffers from these symptoms of anxiety," he says.

It has been a year since the LSD therapy, and Schulz is now working full-time again. Several months ago, he began working in outpatient geriatric care, which allows him to schedule his time more flexibly and take breaks. He hopes that the changes will enable him to cope with full-time work. He keeps himself physically fit by riding his bicycle and playing table tennis several times a week.

Schulz is convinced that the LSD helped him. The drug, he says, gave him a gentle push, an energy boost at a time when he felt miserable and listless. During the trip, he says, he felt for the first time his entire sadness and anger at the cancer. "All of a sudden, I was able to cry like a baby," he says, smiling again.

There is only one thing he regrets, says Schulz: The two sessions were much too short. "I would like to continue the LSD therapy," says Schulz, staring out the window. "But not if it's illegal."

Used properly, and understood properly, I think it could be an amazing tool that could help people that really need it.

There are reasons why First Nation and other "primitive" people's used certain drugs they were able to discover for what they considered important purposes. They weren't "getting high" and having fun.
Joined: 12/26/2005
Msg: 53
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/26/2010 6:32:59 PM
It seems to me that our consciousness can only cope properly with the reality of this earth when all the chemicals of the brain are in their "normal" balance. When we begin to upset the chemical balance of the brain with drugs we become aware of realities not usually experienced until we are in the death or near death state. For some people, taking a small step into the brave new world of the hereafter with the help of mind altering substances such as found in Peyote cactus or certain mushrooms can have the same effect as a near death experience. They return from their "trip" with a lasting changed outlook on life.
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 54
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/26/2010 6:46:04 PM
The near death experiences are distortions of perception. There is no hereafter. But when people imagine a hereafter and when they let lapse their routine or normal mode of perception, they can have differently perceived experiences. The only thing that defines a normal state of mind is that you are used to it. If you were to get used to another state of mind, then that, too, would become normal. There does seem to be a standard issue routine of consciousness once you have domesticated it with a common language. Even that has its exceptional detours. As for being able to deal or cope properly with reality only when sober, well, there is a variety of different opinions and many would say that reality requires being stoned somehow in order to cope with it. Perception has a component that is in effect a buffer from direct experience, allowing one to have an idea of life that is not merely an accurate image of life. By playing around with perception, whatever method is used, it is possible to not only see things in different ways but also to see your normalcy anew, as a habit and a fragile one at that.
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 55
view profile
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/28/2010 11:55:45 AM
Nice of you to be so sure of your concept of the near death experience.
don't expect others to take you anecdotal word for it.

The research I remember them doing was also for schizophrenia and LSD research ... and they felt they were making headway when it was outlawed ... mainly because of Tim and the counter culture abusing it.

I noticed from my university days that using one of these psychedelic drugs in the proper nurturing environment with knowledgeable people to aid and help the trips ... and only taking trips once every 3 to 6 months ... there were positive psychological effects on pretty much everyone I knew that didn't abuse them.

Stress and anxiety ... well that has to be relieved before you can enjoy anything. Including a bowl of chocolate ice cream. Its all in the mind.
yes we need a balanced mind ... but it is well known that many people do not have balanced minds and the brain chemistry is out of synch. Sometimes it needs tweaking ... but just by how much and when .... that is the million dollar question.

I do think research needs to be continued and the government needs to listen to the experts ... not the lobbyists and do-gooders that basically are ignorant and scared.

Joined: 9/4/2011
Msg: 56
view profile
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/16/2011 9:28:20 PM
People seem to be forgetting that there is an hallucinogen that is used in medicine; ketamine. Although it doesn't work in the same way as LSD and other serotonogic hallcinogens (ketamine is classed as a dissociative and pharmacologically an NMDA antagonist) it can produce profound and life changing states of conciousness. Ketamine has been used to help people with a fear of death that is having a negative effect on their life. It is also the only known antidepressant that works immediately, unlike the likes of prozac, tricyclics etc that take anywhere from 1-4 weeks before they start having an effect. Because it blocks sensory input, it's also used as a painkiller in certain very painful conditions (it is co-administered with morphine when morphine alone cannot provide adequate relief eg in burns victims). All this with a drug that is known to be heavily abused by some users and psychologically addictive. As such, if 'legitimate' medical uses are found for psilocybin, LSD etc. I see no reason why they will not enter the pharmaceutical arsenal for doctors (actually, a close relative of LSD, the drug methylsergide, is used to treat severe migraine & cluster headaches. It's hallucinogenic in the same way as LSD if taken at about 3x the dose for treating migraine)

LSD work by inhibiting the ability of the brain to reduce sensory input to a mere trickle that the concious mind can use. Under LSD the 'reducing valve' is switched off and the brain is overwhelmed by the flood of sensory input to the point where no external input is usable and the mind is effectively isolated from normal concensus reality. Ketamine isolates the mind by simply stopping the flow of sensory information (that's why it's used as an anaesthetic); basically two different routes to the same place.
Joined: 7/22/2011
Msg: 57
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/17/2011 11:10:01 AM
Disclaimer: I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if I'm repeating stuff someone else has said. I know a chunk of medicinal chemistry though so this is my take on this scenario. fastandbulbous made a good post there.

Anyway. From a chemical point of view what this research will be trying to find out is how to minimise the hallucinogenic effects of these compounds, while maximising the therapeutic effects.

This works because many of these hallucinogens effect many different receptors. These are what effect the brains 'chemical balance' in many ways. What the scientists will want to do is narrow down which receptors are responsible for causing hallucinations, and which particular molecule/molecule fragment is responsible.

Once they have this information they can tailor the molecule/fragment to only hit certain receptors, specifically those which are going to give a therapeutic effect without hallucinations.

This is often how drugs are designed. A natural compound is taken, analysed and tweaked into something we can use in a much more controlled fashion.
Joined: 5/26/2011
Msg: 58
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/17/2011 12:30:16 PM
For those children needing to be told what is right and wrong by someone else, please - don't stray too far from your government leash. We wouldn't want you to think too hard, and have an existential crisis. Go back to your "Jeopardy!" and "Law and Order", and leave the critical thinking to those who can do just that - think critically.

Ignorant religious and political fear mongering has no place in science. Your prejudice and UNFOUNDED expertise on the topic of drugs and their possible benefits is not applicable here. Goodbye!

Joined: 5/26/2011
Msg: 59
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/17/2011 12:44:18 PM
Why are "hallucinations" an undesirable effect? Something tells me you have no experience with hallucinogens, or with the deeper parts of the mind.

Hallucinations often take the form of hopes, fears and realities that are relevant to that person. It's what changes "whoah, swirling colors" into "whoah, I didn't realize my mind was making up all these things I worry and feel helpless about all on it's own. Just like the swirling fire in front of my eyes, because I experience it doesn't mean it's real or inescapable. Once I realize that, it no longer affects me"

Again, I reiterate - those with opinions not based on scientific research and PERSONAL experience, it's all very cute. Keep talking, you're only impressing the people who know less than you.

Joined: 7/22/2011
Msg: 60
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/17/2011 8:10:04 PM
Sorry mate are you addressing me here?

No I don't have experience with hallucinogens. Thats a personal choice you can take to the bank. I'm speaking from a perspective as a chemist and from drug design to explain why this research is useful and important. If you don't get that you should probably go smoke some more until you can see those crazy molecules doing their thang.

Right let me explain this in again in a different way. Basically lets look at the brain. Its a big squishy bunch of cells and chemicals all with different functions. It generally exists in a dynamic equilibrium. Thats a balance that changes a lot depending on circumstance.

Sometimes one thing may be knocked out of sync and stay that way. This causes illness. Maybe its migranes, epilepsy etc.

Drugs can be used to push this equilibrium back to normal and alleviate those symptoms.

Lets say we find that LSD cures epilepsy. Great! Problem is that if the person is taking that drug they can't function on a day to day basis because of the hallucinations. They won't be able to work, care for themselves because they will probably be tripping balls.

But! If we look at the drug and change it at a molecular level so that it doesn't cause hallucinations, but does cure the epilepsy then we have a winner! That person can live normally and epilepsy free without tripping balls! Fantastic!

Thats probably the best I can explain it. The process of drug design is long and complex and I generally trust people to take time to understand it as it is rather important.
Joined: 9/4/2011
Msg: 61
view profile
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 9/17/2011 9:00:47 PM
Thing is, some of the potential uses for psychedelics actually need the altered state of conciouness. OK, say for treating cluster headaches (eg LSD), most people would want a drug that deals with the problem, but without altering their state of conciousness - that's where the drug design comes in. For psychological conditions, the psychedelic mind state is actually an important part of the drug action eg for treating alcoholics, the feeling that there is something beyond what we normally percieve is key to the person deciding that they no longer want to be intoxicated with alcohol and not relapsing.

So while fiddling with the molecule to remove certain properties, but leave others intact is the goal of people wanting to treat conditions that are due to some dysfunction in the body. For psychological the psychedelic/hallucinogenic aspect is just about the last thing you want to lose.

And yes I have had experience with hallucinogens, but I've also done post grad research in the area of neuropharmacology. I know my pic makes me look a bit like an acid head from the 60s/70s, but I don't let that cloud my analytical skills (well not most of the time )
Joined: 3/18/2011
Msg: 62
view profile
Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!
Posted: 3/5/2012 9:26:17 PM
Coma White, thank you for weighing in with ibogaine!
After reading about some of the effects of hallucinogens/entheogens, I have to believe that the pharmaceutical companies are already well aware of their effectiveness. The problem is that organic, naturally occurring substances aren't "patentable", and that gives them no incentive to lobby for their removal from the no no list.
These substances have a long history with mankind. It's too bad that profit outweighs spiritual growth and inner development in today's society. I'd love to see these substances gain legal acceptance, along with education and respect for their power.
Can you imagine what would happen to the present power structure if this got out? Oh yeah...the 60's!!
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again !!!