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 AUTHOR
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 101
full custody and how?Page 5 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)

... ever find a Coca-Cola bottle while going walkabout in the desert?

... me too....

... still can't figure out why the fvck it landed there for me to find......

(... I realize it's a bit of an obscure reference.... but this is a test, only a test...)


Gods Must be Crazy.

!Xo'Phil...

(what do I win?)
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 102
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/16/2010 2:58:08 PM
[quoteGods Must be Crazy.

!Xo'Phil...

(what do I win?)

(...affecting a nasally irritating operator's voice...)

Well, sir, even though you answered correctly, you didn't do so in the allotted time, sir....

... we're sorry you don't win the Grand Prize, but we can offer you a poke in the eye with a sharp stick...

... thank you so much for playing Capitano''s Movie Trivia, sir....



 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 103
view profile
History
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/16/2010 9:29:03 PM

I agree anyone can go back to school...but the child support required is based on having to work full time and if you do not work full time they extrapolate what you would have earned had you worked full time...i.e. imputed income and the guy falls behind as he cannot pay the full cs obligation and the cost of education while working part time and going to school full time.


CS in Canada is based on the assumption that one works full time and does not attend school, even if they worked part time or not at all during the time they were a couple? Really? My only personal comment is that that seems unfair. On the other hand, I worked full time & went to school full time, while pregnant until shortly after giving birth, so I remain steadfast in my contention that it is up to the individual to do what they consider in the best interest of their children. I also remain steadfast in my contention that parents, of both genders, seem to completely change their assessment of what is most important when they split. What a sad commentary on society at large. The sacrifice should not be borne by the children.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 104
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/16/2010 11:42:13 PM
ohwhynot, CS in Canada is based on the previous year's tax return and the ncp's net income for that year. There is absolutely zero assumption that the ncp is working full-time or even earning a certain dollar amount. That is how some women get $500/month for each child and I (am supposed to) get $100/month. It has absolutely nothing to do with assumptions made on one's employment and EVERYTHING to do with how much one earned the previous year. If the ncp can prove to the court that circumstances have changed, or is going back to school, the ncp can apply to have the amount adjusted accordingly.

To note as well, NO cs order goes through without going to court. If an ncp chooses not to go to court to argue their case when it comes up, what right do they really have to b*tch about the amount?
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 105
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 7:04:33 AM

It has absolutely nothing to do with assumptions made on one's employment and EVERYTHING to do with how much one earned the previous year. If the ncp can prove to the court that circumstances have changed, or is going back to school, the ncp can apply to have the amount adjusted accordingly.


Not so easy. Incomes get imputed all the time once it's established what a person is able to bring in. I talked with a lawyer about this when my ex decided to quit her work which would cost me more money. I have kids half of the time and pay CS.

The lawyer told me she could do pretty well whatever she wanted and the courts didn't care if it cost me more money as long as I could keep paying. He also said that I'd have a really tough time getting any ajustment downwards if I ever chose to reduce my work or quit my job.

It's not as cut and dry, easy-peasy, like you make it sound.


 lynaudio
Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 106
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 8:00:27 AM
for men looking to gain 50/50 joint physical custody or sole custody is to take over the all day to day care of the children


Supports my claim of establishing yourself as primary care giver. The rules are not different for women. It may seem that women don't have to work so hard to establish it, because even still, women are, in the vast majority of cases, the primary care giver.


CS in Canada is based on the previous year's tax return and the ncp's net income for that year. There is absolutely zero assumption that the ncp is working full-time or even earning a certain dollar amount. That is how some women get $500/month for each child and I (am supposed to) get $100/month. It has absolutely nothing to do with assumptions made on one's employment and EVERYTHING to do with how much one earned the previous year. If the ncp can prove to the court that circumstances have changed, or is going back to school, the ncp can apply to have the amount adjusted accordingly.


Is exactly right.
Furthermore once an agreement is in place an enforcement officer is assigned. Either party is welcome to request that the agreement be amended due to change in circumstance.


To note as well, NO cs order goes through without going to court.


However if the parties reach an agreement prior to filing papers, the one and only court appearance consists of the judge confirming that the agreement is in line with the federal guidelines, and that both parties are in fact in agreement. Takes all of 15 or 20 minutes.

In years gone by, divorce and custody may have been one process. But now they are two separate actions. Neither dependent on the other.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 9/26/2009
Msg: 107
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 4:51:21 PM


Gods Must be Crazy.

!Xo'Phil...

(what do I win?)


(CB) (...affecting a nasally irritating operator's voice...)

Well, sir, even though you answered correctly, you didn't do so in the allotted time, sir....

... we're sorry you don't win the Grand Prize, but we can offer you a poke in the eye with a sharp stick...

... thank you so much for playing Capitano''s Movie Trivia, sir....


Meh.

Shoulda known that CB would be running a crooked game...

Phil...
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 108
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 5:58:18 PM

Shoulda known that CB would be running a crooked game...


Well, I AM a pirate after all. Whatcha expec'?


Is exactly right.
Furthermore once an agreement is in place an enforcement officer is assigned. Either party is welcome to request that the agreement be amended due to change in circumstance.


Yes, yes, it's all happiness, light and fairness in all cases....

... except for the one who makes more money, doesn't have primary custody, and does not, in most cases, have a vagina...

You, as most women, love to rely on the legal language of gender neutrality, but rarely look at the application of the supposed gender neutral laws.

{Capitano looks into his crystal ball and sees women stamping their feet, growling and throwing screeching verbal nukes at the Capitano like, "whiner", "whinger", "suck it up", "women have been oppressed for 4.5 billiion years, you have no idea"...... }

 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 109
view profile
History
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 6:07:42 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Canadians. Much the same as here in the US (NY at least). Income can be imputed to either party, btw, and I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be. Income was imputed to me; I didn't work since I gave birth to our first child (a decision, btw, that both my ex husband and I totally agreed upon) , and our youngest was barely 3 when we split, yet, the judge decided that I should go to work based on the income my ex claimed to make. He never looked at the tax returns, nor even asked me a question related to income. While I truly believe that my youngest child lost out, when compared to her older sisters, the truth is that I may not think it fair, but it is an equitable decision, as far as court involvement is concerned. My attorney, as well, advised me to "cut my losses", as the amount of money it would cost me to force a trial would take years to make back in increased cs. My point is that the courts are not necessarily biased in favor of the woman. Courts would prefer, and practically force, the parties to come to an agreement. As far as I am concerned, this promotes personal responsibility, and I agree with it. It was not the court's decision for anyone to marry a stubborn azzhole. So, when I say that the reason more women than men have custody it is because more women then men desire it, I firmly believe that to be true. In any case, court cases are won by the person most willing to shell out money to an attorney, but I know for a fact that women are not handed the keys to the world simply because of their gender.
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 110
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 6:37:35 PM
Ahh , spoken like a true lifetime stay at home mom. Curious did you ask for the divorce or did he? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So sad you had to get a job ohwhybother.

To LYN, my divorce and cs was done with a single trial, my income was imputed based on nothing but my age. I wish I was earning that much at the time. They might as well have threw a dart full of numbers.

I've read the family law statutes concerning lowering cs and taken that even further by searching for any precedent that would support your non gender view of family law but have failed time and time again.
I've sat with duty councils and read them the law as it is written and have been told straight up that if I won I would be the first. If I find it I'll copy and paste it for you but it goes something like this.

Child support can be adjusted retroactively up to three years with proof.

I found many cases that this worked for . All women seeking to have their child support raised and were able to increase it retroactively 3 years.

Not a single one for a man who overpaid.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 111
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 6:47:49 PM
LOL....hey Lyn...what happened to your assertion of all a man has to do is apply for 50/50 joint physical custody and it happens...and that custody falls under the rules of Provincial jurisdiction?


An exit strategy for men looking to gain 50/50 joint physical custody or sole custody is to take over the all day to day care of the children if you know the marriage is rocky. You continue to live in a lousy or poor relationship undertaking all day care duties...not a fair share...all duties for at least 2-3 years...so that it is well established the role and influence and emotional importance you have on the children...it might improve your chances in court....might...


Now....since you have dropped your erroneous suggestion of 50/50 physical custody as the starting point and now simply suggest that woman are or have been the primary parent...just because why?


Section 16(4) of the Divorce Act, supra, allows the court to award custody of children to any one or more persons. There is no presumption as to either sole or joint custody.


But then why not try a little case law about two parents who are unable to get along and not co-parent...


in Kaplanis v. Kaplanis 2005 CanLII 1625 (ON C.A.), (2005), 249 D.L.R. (4th) 620 at paras. 2, 11-14, a decision released the same day as Ladisa, supra, the Court of Appeal held that joint custody was not appropriate where there was no effective cooperation between the parents. .


So effectively if the father knows his place...rolls over and begs properly he might again be able to obtain joint custody...

And Lyn rather dirty but effective tool for mothers is the false allegations where the custody or access time for the father is removed or only allowed for short periods under supervised access and by the time the ncp is able to prove the charges a lie....time has gone by and the child...is left with the mother with access being every other weekend and nothing is done to the mother with her false allegation of sexual impropriety...because case law has effectively given woman that one free pass...

Go read Nicolas Bala where he in the Family Law Quarterly where he in his paper and something used and cited in many cases has given mothers the ability to lie ( once ) without concern for recrimination as they fall under the suggestion that they were simply overly concerned or misunderstood the situation...

But then there are lawyers who have used this legal strategy to obtain custody...as did a womans shelters in Manitoba as written by Donna Laframboise.

So Google Donna Laframboise....google the a court case where a Mr. Lawrence was given the right to sue his ex wife's lawyer after he was wrongly imprisoned for assaulting his ex wife after his ex wife lawyer advised her to make up stories of domestic abuse to enhance her divorce claims on the marital home and the children...

And then see how you suggest that woman are treated the same....

But perhaps a few more questions

Net income or gross income...


CS in Canada is based on the previous year's tax return and the ncp's net income for that year. There is absolutely zero assumption that the ncp is working full-time or even earning a certain dollar amount. That is how some women get $500/month for each child and I (am supposed to) get $100/month. It has absolutely nothing to do with assumptions made on one's employment and EVERYTHING to do with how much one earned the previous year. If the ncp can prove to the court that circumstances have changed, or is going back to school, the ncp can apply to have the amount adjusted accordingly.




Is exactly right.


Net income is not what is used for CS calculations..


Line 236 - Net income Net income is used to calculate certain federal and provincial or territorial non-refundable tax credits. We also use your net income, and if you are married or living common-law, your spouse or common-law partner's net income, to calculate amounts such as the Canada Child Tax Benefit, the goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax credit, the social benefits repayment, and certain non-refundable tax credits


What is used is line 150....Gross income

Justice Canada
Child Support Online Lookup Amendments to the Federal Child Support Guidelines came into force on May 1, 2006. The amendments included updated Child Support Tables for all provinces and territories and reflect changes to federal, provincial and territorial tax rates.

The amount of child support received or paid will not automatically change because of the amended Guidelines. Under the Guidelines, parents may apply for a variation order in circumstances where the child support amount would be different, for example because of the updated amount in the tables or because of a change in a parent's income that is relevant to the child. Please refer to Changing an existing order or agreement for more information.

In certain cases, provincial or territorial guidelines may apply. Please refer to Which guidelines apply to you? for more information.

Under the Federal Child Support Guidelines, the basic amount of child support is determined by considering:

•the number of children;
•the province or territory where the paying parent lives; and
•the paying parent's gross annual income.




Furthermore once an agreement is in place an enforcement officer is assigned. Either party is welcome to request that the agreement be amended due to change in circumstance.


LOL...all you have to do is just make a request....a request to someone who in all probability is not going to be allowing you to make the changes....it is a little more difficult than that...again I think you are either misinformed or you are deliberatly misleading others in what you are suggesting.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fcy-fea/sup-pen/index.html

Changing an order or agreement
Many changes can take place in a parent’s or child’s life over time. Sometimes child support amounts have to change too in order to remain objective and fair — to reflect a parent’s capacity to pay and to protect the best interests of the child.

If you and the other parent both agree, you can change a support agreement yourselves. If you cannot agree, you can ask a judge to decide. The judge will then apply the guidelines to the new circumstances of the family.


The last time i checked getting into family court was not something that occured quickly and can take 12-18 months before it gets through to court and a judge makes a decision to over turn a previous decision...and all that time you have to pay and you are not given any credit for any over-payments you are or did make.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 112
view profile
History
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 8:25:14 PM

Ahh , spoken like a true lifetime stay at home mom. Curious did you ask for the divorce or did he? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So sad you had to get a job ohwhybother.


Not only asthma, but an azzhole! You know nothing about me at all. I am far from a "lifetime stay at home mom", although it is as admirable as any other occupation, albeit less well paid. Truth is, I forfeited as much income as my ex made, if not more, for the opportunity to raise my children, rather than have them be raised by someone else, and with not only his consent, but at his suggestion, as, at the time, we were of one mind as far as priorities. I gave up far more, in terms of financial security than he has, and I have not one regret. For the record, I asked for contribution, acknowledgment of a well defined problem, which he will freely admit today, all the while refusing to do the necessary to allow him, of his own accord, involvement with his offspring. Frankly, the details of my personal life are none of your business. You applaud him? Kudos to you, lowlife! You know not of what you speak. It may be news to you, but where the children are concerned, if they lose, you lose.

Overpaid? I will never see monies spent, personal sacrifices or personal opportunities foregone in the interest of the welfare of my children as "overpayment".
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 113
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/17/2010 9:54:25 PM
blah, blah blah, blah,blah, blah blah, blah,blah, blah blah, blah - ohwhybother.

Touched a nerve. This coming from the person who says they never get upset.
And my, don't we think the world revolves around us?
The part about overpayment wasn't even directed at you. It was to illustrate the point I made concerning retroactive adjustments but maybe if you feel the need to defend yourself on that one speaks of some underlying guilt on your part? See most people have the luxury of taking ten years off, he must have made a decent dollar but you married him for love right?
And I see you skipped right over the who asked for the divorce part.

Hang on I want to quote you again.

blah, blah blah, blahblah, blah blah, blahblah, blah blah, blah ohwhybother
 kissmyasthma
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 114
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 6:45:15 AM
Yeah maybe I'm a jerk but at least I know when to quit sometimes, I may have an opinion but I do not piss into the wind if the facts prove me wrong.

No what is sad is that it went so well as far as the relationship goes. Somewhere along the line either she devoted everything to the kids and nothing to him
The very fact that instead of stopping to fix that problem, they had yet another and something tells me that it wasn't so much his idea but a way for her to stay home.
Now that is something I will agree that it was nice for someone to tend to the day to day caring but for him and and many other men doing the 40 to 70 hours a week doesn't count as primary care.
She by her own words expected to walk out of court being able to keep her SAHM status intact, her lifestyle protected and he was expected to just keep working to pay for it all.
 lynaudio
Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 115
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 8:07:22 AM

You, as most women, love to rely on the legal language of gender neutrality

And you, like most men, prefer to attack a person’s character, over actually discussing the issues.

So let’s talk about gender neutrality. It’s true. If you look back through this thread, among a few others, and count pronouns, you will see that, the women routinely use gender neutral pronouns. I, as an individual, prefer to use gender neutral terms because I advocate for gender equality. You may infer that to be an intention of manipulation. You may infer that it is an indication of a hidden agenda. But, all the inference in the world will not change the fact that: I advocate for gender equality.
And I am happy that the guidelines for child custody are written in the “legal language of
gender neutrality”. I would have gladly shared custody with my daughter’s father. I have and will continue support fathers who are legitimately seeking the opportunity to be active, caring, responsible, influences in their children’s lives. And I recognize that each individual may have a different image of how that can be accomplished

P.S. capitano , I do enjoy your posts.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 116
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 8:24:17 AM

When two people are married, they make decisions as a couple in the best interests of the child(ren). One of the most common decisions they make is for one to be a SAHP. Whomever assumes that role will be foregoing financial and career gains during that time....that is an obvious fact is it not?

Ummmm.... as a married couple we agreed she would stay at home for the first year. We also agreed that she would return to her job after that time.

Guess who lied and refused to return to work?

I wonder how many couples experienced a similar situation?
 lynaudio
Joined: 2/11/2007
Msg: 117
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 11:37:11 AM
Tealwood,

.

LOL....hey Lyn...what happened to your assertion of all a man has to do is apply for 50/50 joint physical custody and it happens

What I said was:
If a couple choose to go through mediation as apposed to court, the process begins at 50/50.
If the courts are involved the first thing that is considered is who preformed the duty of primary care giver.
Ergo if said duties were shared equally, theoretically, that ratio should be upheld, post relationship breakdown.

I also stated that in the one and only case in which I have personal experience where 50/50 was sought, it happened.
Is my position clearer now?

An exit strategy for men looking to gain 50/50 joint physical custody or sole custody is to take over the all day to day care of the children if you know the marriage is rocky. You continue to live in a lousy or poor relationship undertaking all day care duties...not a fair share...all duties for at least 2-3 years...so that it is well established the role and influence and emotional importance you have on the children...it might improve your chances in court....might...


If you needed to spend those years establishing your role as primary care giver, the only conclusion I can draw, without more intimate knowledge of your individual circumstance, is that that fact had not been previously established.



Now....since you have dropped your erroneous suggestion of 50/50 physical custody as the starting point

Refer to above statement on mediation

and now simply suggest that woman are or have been the primary parent...just because why?

Women are and have been, in most cases the primary care givers. You really have a foundation to dispute that? You do realize that after a child is born, Canadian parents have the right to take up to one year of parental leave. And that said leave can be divided between the parent in anyway that they see fit. This also applies to adoptive parents. Granted the six week maternity leave is only available to a person who actually gives birth. A perk I would certainly defer to you, swollen ankles and all, if that were possible.
So how many men do you know who took parental leave? I personally don’t know any, but I’ve heard it happens.


Section 16(4) of the Divorce Act, supra, allows the court to award custody of children to any one or more persons. There is no presumption as to either sole or joint custody.


Referencing an outdated clause in the divorce act???? I like the new system, gender neutrality is a big plus IMO. Picking at the old system while ignoring the new, seems like a huge waste of energy to me. If your personal situation predates custody being severed from the divorce act, I really am not in a position to make assumptions or give advice. I am just happy to advocate for the new system.



And Lyn rather dirty but effective tool for mothers is the false allegations where the custody or access time for the father is removed or only allowed for short periods under supervised access and by the time the ncp is able to prove the charges a lie....time has gone by and the child...is left with the mother with access being every other weekend and nothing is done to the mother with her false allegation of sexual impropriety

That individuals lie and cheat their way around the system, is not a reason to abandon the system. In my mind it is simply. An indication that there is more work to be done.


Net income or gross income...

While I agree that there is a measure of inequality in the tax burdens of estranged couples with children, associated with child support amounts and tax credits, it is too involved to discuss here, and really deserves a thread of its own. Isn’t this thread about custody and not support?
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 118
view profile
History
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 12:24:14 PM
"So how many men do you know who took parental leave? I personally don’t know any, but I’ve heard it happens."

See this is how it starts that guys get F#$&ed in court. The idea that the "primary care giver" is only the one changing the dippers 80% of the time is retarded. If both parent choose to stay home with the new baby and the is no money for rent, I would say both fell short as care givers. If one goes to work and one stays home, I would say both are providing for the child and both are equal care givers. But the courts seldom view it that way. So if you want to protect you prental rights, fathers should refuse to work until the mother also works full time.
That is a good idea to provide for the children out there..... Not!! That was a Not joke, just in case you missed it. What needs to happen is the courts need to validate all care provided and that would include outside employment. If the father refused to work and choose to stay home full time and the mother diceded on a divorce, do you think the father would then be more likely to get 50%.... Not! That was a new not joke, did you see it coming lol? The way it is fathers look bad what ever they do. The only thing left is the OJ way out... Not! See that one only works if you got a but load of money lol.

 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 119
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 6:03:37 PM

So how many men do you know who took parental leave? I personally don’t know any, but I’ve heard it happens.

Many of my male coworkers have enjoyed parental leave. I forget exactly what the criteria is but it is certainly a well used practise in Ontario. Moms who believe it is important for a child to bond with father divide the time off with pay as per the Employment Insurance Act.

Isn’t this thread about custody and not support?

It's endearing to know so many women want to let everyone know the discussion is going off topic.
What is also endearing is the fact they don't remind us we've gone off topic until after they get their two cents in.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 120
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 7:27:13 PM

Section 16(4) of the Divorce Act, supra, allows the court to award custody of children to any one or more persons. There is no presumption as to either sole or joint custody.



Referencing an outdated clause in the divorce act???? I like the new system, gender neutrality is a big plus IMO. Picking at the old system while ignoring the new, seems like a huge waste of energy to me. If your personal situation predates custody being severed from the divorce act, I really am not in a position to make assumptions or give advice. I am just happy to advocate for the new system.


Pray tell what new system you are talking about.....


(4) The court may make an order under this section granting custody of, or access to, any or all children of the marriage to any one or more persons.


There is no new system as the politicians have been unable over a number of years to find a solution in re-writing the Divorce Act.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/D-3.4/


What I said was:
If a couple choose to go through mediation as apposed to court, the process begins at 50/50.
If the courts are involved the first thing that is considered is who preformed the duty of primary care giver.
Ergo if said duties were shared equally, theoretically, that ratio should be upheld, post relationship breakdown.


I used to love when my ex would say...no what I was saying was this as she changed her story or what she was saying...but here we have it in black and white...or history...


If you take a look at the Canadian guidelines, you will see that the system first supports 50/50 joint physical custody, with an income table to sort out support payments. Each case is then examined on its individual merits. You do not need a lawyer, all the information is readily available, and for those who don’t like to read, there are courses available in every city, usually in the evenings.


I fail to see where you have said that if you choose mediation the process starts at 50/50 joint physical custody....but you are telling us if we do not like to read their are courses available...well I do like to read...and have done a fair bit of reading...and unlike your perhaps false postings I try to submit factual information....rather than pie in the sky erroneous misinformation.


Look man...you've got google... try : custody, child support, guidelines, Canada
We start at 50/50. Biatch if ya like.


Just love to Google New Brunswick ....Please read....and tell me...where it says...suggests it starts at 50/50 joint physical custody?


Court of Queen's Bench Home | Français

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mediation Services

Mediation is an alternative method of resolving issues arising out of a separation or divorce. It permits the development of an agreement suitable to the parties in a non-adversarial setting.

Mediation through Family Support Services is a free-of-charge service available to separating couples who wish to work out an agreement on issues arising out of the separation without going to court. Custody and access to children, financial issues and property issues are some topics that may be addressed in mediation. The mediator is a neutral third party, often a court social worker, who assists in facilitating amicable resolutions of contentious issues.

Parental conflict often has a negative impact on a child's adjustment after separation or divorce. By encouraging parents to cooperate, mediation increases the chances that the child will maintain a close relationship with both parents after the separation, thereby helping the child to better adapt.

Advantages to mediation:

• It allows for an open forum where all of the issues and problems of your relationship may be discussed and some or all possibly resolved.

• The agreement ensures a consensus. The decisions are made by you and your former spouse. In court you are on opposite sides and a Judge makes the decision for you.

• It can save you time and money that would otherwise be spent in taking the matter to court.


It does talk about custody and access....but access does not seem applicable when there is joint physical custody? Reading is perhaps different in various Provinces?


An exit strategy for men looking to gain 50/50 joint physical custody or sole custody is to take over the all day to day care of the children if you know the marriage is rocky. You continue to live in a lousy or poor relationship undertaking all day care duties...not a fair share...all duties for at least 2-3 years...so that it is well established the role and influence and emotional importance you have on the children...it might improve your chances in court....might...




If you needed to spend those years establishing your role as primary care giver, the only conclusion I can draw, without more intimate knowledge of your individual circumstance, is that that fact had not been previously established.


Well the criteria is different depending on the age of the children.....from day 1...I was going to the doctors or sharing the duties along with picking up and dropping off at daycare....2 lawyers opinion was I did not stand a chance until they were a little older...or allot older...

Doing full time or far above the 50% for men might enable them to be seen as instrumental. Where i had an advantage was I was the one who got up at 2am and changed the beds....took care of them if they were sick...and changed their diapers...and yet if i had gone into a custody question earlier i would have in all probability lost.

But at age 10 and 6......still a precarious age to try for custody I finally had enough.


Isn’t this thread about custody and not support?


Well a custody plan for men is the premise of not applying or pursuing cs as
it increases the chance that woman will allow you to have custody. As the premise of having to pay cs...woman are willing to allow some men custody if you do not ask for cs...and since you Lyn are the one who first brought up personal experience from an associate I will bring up my situation...and a few other custodial fathers i know....as long as we never asked for cs...custody was something we were allowed...or the guys could have 50/50 if they continued to pay the full cs....all things i have seen and heard....


So Lyn Google is a great tool...and I do hope that with the changes that might one day happen to the divorce act....which requires the Federal Parliament and not the Provincial Legislature....it would be a very good or progressive concept that mediation would be required first before any lawyers are contacted....but please note...in the introduction to mediation by the New Brunswick web site...they still recommended lawyers...


Reaching an agreement

The mediator will work with you to identify all issues arising out of the separation and will facilitate the process involved in reaching an agreement. Once an agreement is reached on the issues, a draft document listing all the issues and how they are to be resolved will be made. This agreement may then be turned into a written separation agreement or a court order. It is, however, not legally binding until it is signed by both parties.

Mediation does not replace legal advice! Before you sign any agreement, a lawyer should review it to ensure that your rights are respected, and that you fully understand and agree with what you are signing.

If you are not able to reach an agreement through mediation, the mediator may recommend that you consult a lawyer to discuss further options. The detailed discussions of the mediation will not be disclosed to the court.


And Lyn....the Department of Justice has from very informative web sites that actually inform you of the laws and the options you have.....and there are a few legal sites which gives you case law and legal decisions that enable you to understand and realize the perils of trying to obtain custody of your children if you are a male in Canada.


When two people are married, they make decisions as a couple in the best interests of the child(ren). One of the most common decisions they make is for one to be a SAHP. Whomever assumes that role will be foregoing financial and career gains during that time....that is an obvious fact is it not?


I often hear woman say things like this...and the same thing never seems to be heard out of the mouths of the father? Rather perhaps the truth may be something like the poor guy who is caught listening to that damn mosquito buzzing all night in your ear and you have two choices...agree or continue to hear that whining/buzzing in your ear for an eternity.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 121
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full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 8:42:04 PM
Agreed, asthma, you are a jerk! I guess "blah, blah, blah" when you have no intelligent response doesn't equate to "pissing in the wind?

Last time I checked, posting wasn't limited to responding only to comments made directly toward you. Regardless of which parent "overpaid", there are may of us who don't view monies spent to provide for our children as over payments.


Ummmm.... as a married couple we agreed she would stay at home for the first year. We also agreed that she would return to her job after that time.

Guess who lied and refused to return to work?

I wonder how many couples experienced a similar situation?



Ummmm.... who made the choice to remain married to a liar, and who should pay the price for that decision?

This thread, like so many others, had degenerated into nothing more than placing blame rather than dealing with reality based issues. In a perfect world, there would be no need for how to attain full custody. In the real world, however, full custody is awarded to either the better parent or the parent who cares enough to protect their children from harm.
More often than not it is awarded to the only one who even expressed an interest, or at least stepped up when the other parent expressed no interest at all. I wonder how many parents with full custody experienced a similar situation?
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 122
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 8:46:01 PM

I could say something flip...oh fvck it, here I go cause I'm in a flip mood....


LOL...If it would make you feel better....then by all means.....go for it!


maybe the men you are speaking of don't understand math


Understand what math? The cost of day care for 1--4 years?

Now play this againts the finacial cost of of being out of the work force for x numbers of years and then having to pay spousal support and child support when your marriage goes south after working full time 45---60 hours a week or full time and a part time job.

That is also legitimate math numbers that i was taught and I have also illustrated to a few other fathers who were wondering where they might be..or why they should not leave their wives just yet!


Not many men I have met, I am sad to say, give a rat's ass about the emotional development of their children, they don't know anything about emotional development and don't really care about anything related to "feelings". Now before you react, I'm not saying that you fit that bill Tealwood but I can spot those that do in these threads quite easily based on how they discuss their children.


I would say that is also something that more than a few woman are equally guilty of.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 123
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full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 8:49:06 PM

I often hear woman say things like this...and the same thing never seems to be heard out of the mouths of the father? Rather perhaps the truth may be something like the poor guy who is caught listening to that damn mosquito buzzing all night in your ear and you have two choices...agree or continue to hear that whining/buzzing in your ear for an eternity.


Rather perhaps the truth may be that to acknowledge the foregone income & financial benefits would result in admitting that it is the truth, and evidence warranting calculated cs?
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 124
full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 8:55:43 PM
Ladies....we can play this game until the cows come home and for the most part...few will change their minds....

but one can always enjoy a rational arguement when it is backed by some credible supporting references.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 125
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full custody and how?
Posted: 5/18/2010 9:49:06 PM

Ladies....we can play this game until the cows come home and for the most part...few will change their minds....

but one can always enjoy a rational arguement when it is backed by some credible supporting references.


That you address the above to "Ladies" is telling. In any case, I have not seen any evidence at all of your statement that credible supporting references are deemed rational by those who are irrational from the start. It is rational to assume that the parties to a marriage make decisions together, and they abide by those decisions which directly affect the children they made together.
What we see here, though, is that those decisions are discounted, particularly in reference to the good of the children, when the parties split, no matter the reason, in an effort to promote a particular position. No wonder court dockets are full!
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