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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?      Home login  
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 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 385
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?Page 21 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)

As an imigrant from a foreign country who imigrated here legally, the reason behind Arizona's Immigration Law is because of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

BS.

It is about building more prisons, as incarcerating people is a lucrative business.

...Yet a new investigation by local Arizona TV news station CBS 5 finds that the Brewer administration may have ulterior motives for its strong support of the new law. The station has found that “two of Brewer’s top advisers have connections” to private prison giant Corrections Corporation of America (CCA).

Paul Senseman, Brewer’s deputy chief of staff, is a former lobbyist for CCA. His wife continues to lobby for the company. Meanwhile Chuck Coughlin, who leads her re-election campaign, chaired her transition into the governorship, and is one of the governor’s policy advisors, is president of HighGround Public Affairs Consultants, which lobbies for CCA.

This is important because CCA currently “holds the federal contract to house detainees in Arizona.” CBS 5 notes that the company currently bills $11 billion a month to the state of Arizona and that, if SB-1070 is successfully implemented, its profits would be significantly padded as it would take responsibility for imprisoning immigrants arrested by Arizona police.*


Just Follow the money train.



* http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/07/27/prison-lobbyists-working-for-az-gov-brewer-are-set-to-profit-from-immigration-law-she-signed/
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 386
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 12/17/2011 7:42:50 PM
11 billion? A month?

Are you sure that's right? There's less than 6 and half million people in Arizona - that's almost $2,000 per citizen per month to one company. It just doesn't sound right to me.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 387
view profile
History
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 12/17/2011 9:07:35 PM
I mean lets be honest if a white guy in AZ was there illegally and a Mexican guy In AZ was there illegally who do you think these laws are really targetting, the white guy there illegally or the Mexican guy there illegally....... I mean it's obv these previsions in AZ were in place geared towards illegal "Mexicans." They can say whatever they want to, to denounce that, but the fact its geared towards one race in particular and not so much about illegal immigration in general is the real reason behind it.

Now this is not to say that I'm not in favor of securing the boarder by any means, but AZ just be honest about who these previsons are actually geared towards. It's not about Illegal immergration in particular it's about illegal "mexican" immigration.

 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 388
view profile
History
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 12/23/2011 8:35:32 AM

I mean lets be honest if a white guy in AZ was there illegally and a Mexican guy In AZ was there illegally who do you think these laws are really targetting, the white guy there illegally or the Mexican guy there illegally....... I mean it's obv these previsions in AZ were in place geared towards illegal "Mexicans." They can say whatever they want to, to denounce that, but the fact its geared towards one race in particular and not so much about illegal immigration in general is the real reason behind it.


One little thing you've forgotten there - how many illegal white men are running drugs across the border from Mexico? The particual area I live in is predominantly Mexican. They are nice people, friendly and helpful (very unlike where I used to live). And they are all legal, living ordinary lives.

If you want to see white men who are illegal immigrants and do cause quite a bit of trouble, take a look at the far northwest corner of Washington state - lots of Russians there, and the Russian Mafiya has long tentacles. Just like the Mexican drug runners who cross the border illegally in Arizona.

Here's an interesting link, speaking of immigration:
http://www.examiner.com/architecture-design-in-national/massive-1-100-year-old-maya-site-discovered-georgia-s-mountains


BLAIRSVILLE, GA (December 21, 2011) -- Around the year 800 AD the flourishing Maya civilization of Central America suddenly began a rapid collapse. A series of catastrophic volcanic eruptions were followed by two long periods of extreme drought conditions and unending wars between city states.

Cities and agricultural villages in the fertile, abundantly watered, Maya Highlands were the first to be abandoned. Here, for 16 centuries, Itza Maya farmers produced an abundance of food on mountainside terraces. Their agricultural surpluses made possible the rise of great cities in the Maya Lowlands and Yucatan Peninsula. When the combination of volcanic eruptions, wars and drought erased the abundance of food, famines struck the densely populated Maya Lowlands. Within a century, most of the cities were abandoned. However, some of the cities in the far north were taken over by the Itza Maya and thrived for two more centuries.
 lacalli
Joined: 11/27/2011
Msg: 389
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 12/23/2011 9:16:20 AM

NOBODY wants to live there in the first place! Illegal immigration TO Mexico, is like inviting the pyromaniac to the barbeque.

Posted like so much other nonsense by someone who's never lived or traveled in Mexico or the border areas. Last time I was in Guadalajara a few years ago for a wedding, the parks were filled with elderly American men who had retired. There were so many it was noticeable. I talked to a few of them. The dollar stretches in Mexico in a way it does not anywhere in the US. There have always been Americans living in Mexico-I met many when I first lived there in 1982 but lately there are more than ever. This despite corruption and violence at an all time high.
 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 390
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 12/23/2011 9:51:12 AM
Posted like so much other nonsense by someone who's never lived or traveled in Mexico or the border areas.


Point partially conceded.. I'll admit my Mexican experience has consisted of weekend convoys to TJ (where the legal drinking age is 18) as a kid, and the ... "Donkey shows" in TJ as a Marine.

I've never "lived" in Mexico, but from what I've seen, I wouldn't want to.

When I retire, it's the South Pacific or Asia for me!
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 391
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 4/24/2012 9:41:38 AM
Well, the day has come when the Arizona Immigration Law will get a chance to be heard by the Supreme Court. This will take place against a worrisome backdrop for many Americans that are being severely affected by the consequences of the Republican partisan initiatives to involve the state's legislatures in immigration affairs just so they could use the opportunities to try to score political points against the Federal Government and president Obama.

Farmers all over the country are having a hard time getting the labor needed to keep their land producing the fruits and vegetables that our country needs.


Indeed, just the rumor that Georgia had adopted an Arizona-style law sent a chill through Hispanic immigrant communities throughout the southern farming region.

“The workers were afraid,” said Mr. Eason, surveying his exuberantly fertile blackberry patch here. “A lot of them were afraid their families are going to get separated. Some of them may be legal and some of them illegal, and they want to keep all the families together.”

Mr. Eason, 72, a tall, silver-haired farmer who has been working in agriculture for three decades, could not recall a more acute labor shortage. Mexican farm workers from Florida, who normally would head to Georgia for the summer months, stayed home. Georgia farm workers did not come out, worried that a simple roadway police stop could lead to deportation.

Some Georgia workers headed to North Carolina, which, like Florida, has considered but not passed an Arizona-style law.

A labor office advertisement Mr. Eason placed for 16 workers brought one local man, who lasted half a day in the heat of Georgia summer, the farmer said.

Eventually, learning that the courts had suspended the measure, some immigrants came back to work.

But the effect has been felt beyond illegal immigrants. Mr. Eason also runs a big cotton gin nearby, with longtime employees who are legal immigrant residents or Mexican-American citizens. In interviews, they said their communities felt under siege.

“It’s hard, very hard, and it affects a lot of people,” said Armando Martinez, 39, an American citizen who is a foreman at the cotton gin. “Everybody just watches TV to see what’s going on with the law.”

Georgia farmers are cutting back on their spring planting. Some small farmers have warned that they could go out of business if the labor supply continues to decline. With agriculture the biggest industry in the state, the Georgia Agribusiness Council has been vocal expressing its concerns to state officials and, since the law passed, to federal lawmakers.

Mr. King, the advocate for more restrictive state laws, said a Supreme Court ruling in favor of Arizona would bring a “sigh of relief” in Georgia, giving the state additional confidence that it was on firm legal ground. But Mr. Eason and other farmers in the region, many of whom describe themselves as conservatives, were surprised to find themselves hoping the Supreme Court would not expand the scope for the states.


Complete article found at this link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/us/states-await-supreme-court-hearing-on-arizona-immigration-law.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2#

Furthermore, there is a report that actually more Mexicans are leaving the US than are coming in, something that hadn't happened since the Great Depression.


For first time since Depression, more Mexicans leave U.S. than enter
By Tara Bahrampour, Published: April 23
The Washington Post

A four-decade tidal wave of Mexican immigration to the United States has receded, causing a historic shift in migration patterns as more Mexicans appear to be leaving the United States for Mexico than the other way around, according to a report from the Pew Hispanic Center.

It looks to be the first reversal in the trend since the Depression, and experts say that a declining Mexican birthrate and other factors may make it permanent.

“I think the massive boom in Mexican immigration is over and I don’t think it will ever return to the numbers we saw in the 1990s and 2000s,” said Douglas Massey, a professor of sociology and public affairs at Princeton University and co-director of the Mexican Migration Project, which has been gathering data on the subject for 30 years.

Nearly 1.4 million Mexicans moved from the United States to Mexico between 2005 and 2010, double the number who did so a decade earlier. The number of Mexicans who moved to the United States during that period fell to less than half of the 3 million who came between 1995 and 2000.


The complete article includes a chart and is found at this link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

I am thinking now that perhaps those walls built in Texas and Arizona may be used for the opposite purpose than originally intended. Instead of keeping the "illegals" out, those walls may be used to keeping them in. Lots of people are now worried about their businesses will suffer due to a shortage of labor. Perhaps those who wanted to score political points should have watched carefully the picture "A day without a Mexican."
 emptyvases
Joined: 4/4/2012
Msg: 392
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/5/2012 7:42:26 AM
The Supreme Court is going to rule in favor of the Arizona law, because the law is simply a copy of federal law.
We have laws for solid reasons, even though some of you have your own agendas, such as increasing the voting block for your side.
Blissfully ignore the ranchers who have to deal with intruders on a daily basis, ignore the high incidence of kidnappings,
ignore the growing problem of cartel violence, all in the name of getting those votes.
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 393
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/5/2012 12:29:03 PM
OP

this is a complex problem. when i talk to people that live down there, they say it is a huge problem because they have hundreds of people traipsing across their property every day. i think i'd be concerned about it, too. on the other hand, if i was unable to get a decent job in my own country and i was wanting a better future for my children, yeah, i'd probably sneak into the country. but the fact remains, it is against the law to sneak into the US ,or any other country for that matter, and live and work without attaining a work visa or resident status. some countries even put mines along their borders to prevent refugees or non-residents from entering the country without going through customs or attaining permission to move into the country permanently.

the fact remains: it's against the law to live in the US without a work visa or legal resident status. period. it doesn't matter if you are a blond haired, blue-eyed woman from estonia, it's still against the law. unfortunately, the business world is all too happy to get cheap labor and not have to pay the matching FICA with holding. the worker gets a job under the table, and it's a win-win situation for both - ideally - but sometimes these people end up getting exploited. both the hispanic community (most illegal immigrants come from across the southern border) and the business community are served by the non-enforcement of our immigration laws. they are biased when it comes to this issue. but the fact remains, it is still illegal, and if you don't like the law, then change it.

personally, i think the arizona law is a response to the exasperation of the people of arizona. they are sick and tired of being the human trafficking, drug trafficking, and border jumping free way for the US. are there some people that are racist jerks that are concerned about the browning of America? yeah, probably, but that doesn't change the fact that there are also legitimate concerns here that have had negative impacts on the communities in arizona and other border states as well. again, don't like the law? change it.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 394
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/5/2012 1:28:15 PM
The Supreme Court is going to rule in favor of the Arizona law, because the law is simply a copy of federal law.
We have laws for solid reasons, even though some of you have your own agendas, such as increasing the voting block for your side.
Blissfully ignore the ranchers who have to deal with intruders on a daily basis, ignore the high incidence of kidnappings, ignore the growing problem of cartel violence, all in the name of getting those votes.


No one who has posted in this topic has even suggested that law enforcement shouldn't do its job and go after the violent criminal cartels or the kidnappers, drug traffickers. They should be doing it; it is their job. However, if you think that Arpaio et al are going to take on the more dangerous tasks you are deluding yourself. They don't need any Arizona Immigration law to do their legitimate job of confronting violent criminals that present a danger to their community. They need the Arizona Immigration law to allow them to imprison the undocumented workers and to put them to work for free on the industries of their associates. Why do you think they built extra prisons to keep the "illegal aliens"? You would think that they would be willing to get them immediately on a bus to the border in order to minimize the cost to the taxpayers of keeping those people in prison.

Where did you get the idea that the illegal aliens get to vote in the elections? Have you been working also among the illegal aliens in Arizona for 25 years?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 395
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 9:47:59 AM
"Illegal immigration" came about fairly recently, the 1960's I think. Prior to that, anyone healthy could come to America and either take the citizenship test or not.

My grandparents came from Italy. Nunu worked until he was 70 and was never a citizen, nor was Nuni. They didnt care about being able to vote and their English was horrid, but they were not a burden to anyone.

I don't like the idea of second-class citizens, but we ought to have a track where people who work can pay taxes, get benefits, and vote if they can pass a citizenship test. No taxes, no benefits. No passing the test, no citizenship. But it ought to go back to something like it was.........if there is no job market for them, they won't come here.......they come to work.
 catalina_view
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 396
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 12:14:38 PM
Exactly. People were screened. Now they are not. My grandparents' families from Europe were not allowed to come here. 3/4 of them were turned away and settled in South America instead.
In Los Angeles we have a lot of TB and leprosy has been on the rise since the mid '90's . I am the only teacher I know including my mom and my two best friends who can still take a TB skin test instead of the x-ray because I don't have reaction to it. One of my teacher friends underwent a long round of nasty antibiotics to treat her TB.
We don't screen illegal aliens. That's the difference. Duh.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 397
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 2:42:11 PM

In Los Angeles we have a lot of TB and leprosy has been on the rise since the mid '90's .


That may be one of the unintended consequences from the economic practice of exacting profits by employing undocumented workers who will work for the lowest wages the employers want to pay. People who don't make enough money to live a comfortable life usually aren't able to take care of theirs and their family's health.


We don't screen illegal aliens. That's the difference. Duh.


That would cost money. Who would pay? It is not like you could tell people who want to come to work here without documents that they need to have all the necessary medical tests before sneaking into the country.


I am the only teacher I know including my mom and my two best friends who can still take a TB skin test instead of the x-ray because I don't have reaction to it. One of my teacher friends underwent a long round of nasty antibiotics to treat her TB.


That's very interesting. When I was applying to come to the United States I had all the medical exams and tests required by the US consulate and I was cleared to enter the US as a healthy young man. I was coming to work as a teacher, so I understood that the tests were necessary. Five years later, when moving from Minnesota to Massachusetts, the state required that I take the TB test. The tuberculin skin test came back positive and was told to start the antibiotic treatment for TB. I had a strong reaction after 1 month, and was told to stop taking the medicine and just tell whoever wanted to test me for TB in the future to use x-ray exams. That was 35 years ago and I am still healthy. I know that I was considered an alien back then and the treatment that I received was most likely the standard for my status.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 398
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 2:44:55 PM
TB is coming back everywhere. Antibiotic resistant TB is a problem everywhere. I don't think you can tie that to illegal aliens. People at the bottom of the economic ladder are more likely to contract it. But that's the case everywhere. Another argument for universal health care.
 emptyvases
Joined: 4/4/2012
Msg: 399
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 6:53:17 PM
The "real reason" behind AZ's immigration law (not really AZ's law at all, but a copy of the fed law)
is that AZ doesn't wanna become CA., broke and overrun by hordes of illiterate and hostile third world peasants who have entitlement issues and never ending demands, while bringing tagging and gangs and drugs and mayhem.
There you have it.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 400
view profile
History
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 6:59:47 PM
Isn't all this a bit like the whole "illegal drug traffic" scene? That is, the reason why California has all those folks you describe, is because the California economy is made up heavily of employers who WANT to bring in cheap foreign labor that they can then discard onto the streets, in order to save them money. You want to stop the influx of people you fear, do it the same way that's often suggested to try to get at the drug traffic: go after the people spending the big bucks that brings it all in.

Go after the "users," instead of just trying to penalize the people supplying them with the "juice."
 catalina_view
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 401
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 7:27:26 PM
TB was eradicated in the United States. It is rampant in Mexico where they don't have immunizations. I lived in Mexico (Morelia, Michoacan) but again another topic about which you know more than I.
 KittenCatt
Joined: 6/11/2011
Msg: 402
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 8:29:10 PM

broke and overrun by hordes of illiterate and hostile third world peasants who have entitlement issues and never ending demands, while bringing tagging and gangs and drugs and mayhem.


Vases, are you in my head?? That could have come from me....do you know how nice it is to hear someone dare to utter the real truth about what is going on in this country??? You, Catalinaview, et al here are my breaths of fresh air on this matter.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 403
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/6/2012 9:53:15 PM
We have drug resistant TB here too. It's an infectious disease - borders don't mean much.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 404
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/7/2012 6:44:18 AM

...broke and overrun by hordes of illiterate and hostile third world peasants who have entitlement issues and never ending demands, while bringing tagging and gangs and drugs and mayhem.

So you mean like the Irish, English and Germans that started gangs in New York around the 1820's?

Or do you mean the Poles, Italians and Austrians who started their US gangs 1890's?

Or where you talking about the people from Latin America, the Caribbean, and Puerto Rico who started gangs in the 1930's?

Or could it be the Asian and non–Puerto Rican Latino that got started in the 1980's?


Either way, just more hyperbole and an epic failure at understanding gangs and the history behind them in the USA.
 irishlab33
Joined: 1/16/2011
Msg: 405
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/7/2012 7:51:50 AM

Either way, just more hyperbole and an epic failure at understanding gangs and the history behind them in the USA.


derp

you forgot the Jets and the Sharks
 emptyvases
Joined: 4/4/2012
Msg: 406
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/7/2012 6:13:56 PM
Love it.
I work with gangs, and you're going to pretend to tell me about gangs?
You people are ludicrous.

We have never, in our entire history as a nation, had as many gang members in this country as we do now.
In Los Angeles alone we have more gang members than cops.

Is it possible, EVER, for liberals to engage an issue without lying? Have any of you ever even been here to visit?
You're just so silly.

Most of SOCA is overrun with illegals now. In the time I've lived here, I've watched as areas have changed, all over the valley, North Hollywood, Pacoima, Sun Valley, Northridge, San Fernando, etc.
Downtown, Pico/Union, Echo Park.
In the south bay, San Pedro, Wilmington, Carson, Gardena, and most of South Central has turned Latino and the explosion of gangs is unreal.


If you' don't live here, you don't know sh**. Why do you bother to comment at all?

I live in a "nice" area, and now we have tagging, armed robberies, home invasions, etc.
Last year, on the side of the building next to mine some crew wrote, "White people are devils" and "Hate the blue eyed devils."
Trust me, it wasn't like this when I moved here in the early 80's. Make up whatever lies you want, the people who live here know what's up.
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 407
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/7/2012 7:02:27 PM
emptyvases~

You are absolutely right about the gang situation in California. I lived in LA for years, and yeah, it is unbelievable how much many of the neighborhoods changed in just a short time. as a matter of fact, there are many 2nd and 3rd generation hispanics that are moving out, too. they are just as ticked off about the gang and drug violence that is being fueled by human trafficking, drug trafficking, and a lack of enforcement of our immigration laws... as a matter of fact, i personally know two people that were shot by illegal immigrant/gang members...one was hispanic himself, and while he survived getting shot in the head with a shot gun, he will always have problems with his eyes due to pressure on his optic nerve as a result of his injuries...my other friend? she will walk with a cane for the rest of her life...and she was 22 when 3 gang members that were out on furlough from a juvenile detention center for violent offenders...shot her in the back because, "[they] just felt like popping someone...that's all."
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 408
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/7/2012 7:05:46 PM

We have never, in our entire history as a nation, had as many gang members in this country as we do now.
In Los Angeles alone we have more gang members than cops.

Based on what data?
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 409
The real reasons behind Arizona's Immigration Law?
Posted: 5/7/2012 7:10:26 PM
halftime dad~

>>

actually, drug resistant strains of TB aren't coming "everywhere." this doesn't just "happen." one of the reasons that we now have drug resistant strains of such diseases is because people from undeveloped parts of the world are bringing the diseases into their ethnic communities in developed nations. in turn, someone gets infected, and people then share their drugs with others or they don't take the full prescription. they take the drug till they feel better, then stop. as a result, the bacteria mutates and you end up with a stronger strain. this is pretty common knowledge.

if you want universal healthcare then you could always move to sweden....the majority of the people in the US don't want it...
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