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 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 751
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...Page 23 of 33    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33)
I'd moon the Pope for a million dollars,heck ,pick any name out of a hat and I'd moon them for a million.
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 754
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 8/17/2010 1:56:25 PM

It's not over...the "microscopic bits" of oil are all over the ocean floor. I think the cleanup was as successful as it could be, - thanks to our PRESIDENT's leadership - but the excess oil couldn't have just disappeared, as some seem to believe. it's going to be a LONG time before the final impact is known.


I agree,and think most now agree we've only got over a major hurdle is all,I'm hoping the dispersed oil will come together and float to the top we we can collect it,I don't agree with the science behind oil dispersant.I believe new equipment needs to be made ,to better collect oil ,something better than anything we currently have.Wanna make a new industry law,thats a good one,effective equipment needs to be invented or stop the drilling.

Thats like asking for stopping the production of automobiles if effective brakes didn't exist.

If we suffer another Gulf spill in the near future or a third in a row, these changes will happen anyways.Its like gun laws,as soon as the wrong type of child is shot,such a person that tears the heart out of the masses of the whole country, and this blonde ,blue eyed little Shirley Temple girl gets shot in her gated neighborhood,laws change over night,beautiful children from the slum gang areas in the bad parts of town never really held any weight.

Oil is the same way,piss off the bulk of the people in the right circumstance and suddenly everyone buys into regulations and such,the oil industry and supporters now is covered with Kryptonite or some other form of mysterious magic.

Thanks for the Pope warning,thank god,I'm old, and a only small portion of all priests that are that way are pedophiles and mainly into little boys,I dodged a bullet.

I vote for allowing little boys to carry hand guns to church,if god will not protect them,nor will the Pope,then let the child.Face it ,God doesn't meddle with such things ,he's never stopped violent rapes,or genocide ,Warlords,slaves,or any of that,so its up to the Pope,and we all know he will do nothing,its a good ol boys club after all.Sad,so sad. Get little Johnny a 357 and the priest would keep it in his pants.Less people would also sleep during church too.

I'm joking about arming young boys.............................................maybe,lol
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 755
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 8/28/2010 10:10:37 AM
It really IS such a horror that BP gets to drill ANYWHERE!!
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 758
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/24/2010 12:11:43 AM

It's not over...the "microscopic bits" of oil are all over the ocean floor.

Well yeah, sorta. But oil is an organic material (obviously). It breaks down into its baser components over time. So yes, it's still all over the ocean floor (and other places), but it's not like an oil slick that's just spread out. I'm not entirely sure how it (oil) breaks down, and I could look it up, but I'd just be pasting, and I'm not the best person to explain it. But not every component of oil is harmful. So how much of the harmful components of the oil haven't been cleaned up (or never surfaced) is a good question.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 759
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/24/2010 7:41:44 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but more as an adjunct, the problem seems much larger based on information provided over the last few weeks.

Literally thousands of wells sit abandoned in the gulf. Not living there or spending extensive time offshore there I never knew this. Based on this, I would have to assume almost every drilling and oil company who ever did exploration and production in the gulf have left a potential problem in this vast junkyard of steel and rigs.

Now thats sad, "yeah we drilled, well ran dry, we just left the sh1t out there to rust and fall away, why should we clean it up" seems to be the attitude.

So now the question largely becomes where did all this oil come from? Was it ALL the BP rig, or one of these many derelicts?

Kinda makes me think of that movie remake of "the day the earth stood still" with Keanu Reeves. If there was a species that ever needed to be removed from the planet, it would seem to be us. Like so many unruly, spoiled children who never clean up after themelves, we move round the earth taking the minerals and oil, then leave the aftermath to someone else to deal with.

So sad.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 760
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/24/2010 12:24:55 PM
Uh.... No, it was all BP. The oil came from... the oil spill...
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 762
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/27/2010 12:17:39 AM
Okay... citation?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 764
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/27/2010 4:00:05 AM
dej.."So how much of the harmful components of the oil haven't been cleaned up (or never surfaced) is a good question."

According to the latest estimates, somewhere over 75% remains out there, most of which is in cold water right now where the breakdown process will be slow.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/08/noaa-official-concedes-majority-of-gulf-oil-still-there.html
There is a link in the piece to go to the testimonials.

UGA scientists put the figure at closer to 80% remaining and Woods Hole Oceanographic Insitute scientists have mapped a huge plume full of toxic by-products.
"According to their findings the deepwater plume measures 22 miles long, 1.2 miles wide and 650 feet high."
"The team took around 57,000 samples from the plume during a 10-day research voyage at the end of June. It found that the plume was not made up of pure oil but a combination of toxic oil compounds including benzene and xylene."

No one really knows the full consequences and long term effects of the Corexit panic tactic. It's all still part of a big experiment where managing perceptions are more important than actually cleaning up their mess if they could even do so.

One of the scariest scenarios to come out of this is the extreme interest in developing GM oil eating microbes, ala Beason and Anderson's "Ill Wind" sci-fi story.

Krebby..good to see you pop back in. Always enjoyed your humor and perspective..Be well.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 765
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/27/2010 7:21:20 AM

It found that the plume was not made up of pure oil but a combination of toxic oil compounds including benzene and xylene.


That's possibly the stupidest, most ignorant oil-related statement I've read. Do these alleged scientists not understand what "oil" *IS*?

"Oil" is made up of hundreds or thousands of different chemicals, including, yes, benzene and xylene. It's still just crude oil ...but it's more alarming to present it as above, eh?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 766
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/27/2010 7:49:16 AM
Most of the benzene, xylene, and other VOCs tend to evaporate into the air column in typical oil spills on that come to the surface. The surfactants may have sucessfully kept the oil subsurface and incapable of evaporation, consequently still in the crude and availble for significant biological damage under water.

They were merely stating facts about this spill and not part of some vast conspiracy to "make it more alarming". Of course these scientists know what oil is?

No need to rage against the facts.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 767
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/27/2010 10:01:30 AM

dej.."So how much of the harmful components of the oil haven't been cleaned up (or never surfaced) is a good question."

According to the latest estimates, somewhere over 75% remains out there, most of which is in cold water right now where the breakdown process will be slow.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/08/noaa-official-concedes-majority-of-gulf-oil-still-there.html
There is a link in the piece to go to the testimonials.

Yikes.

Thanks for the info.
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 768
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/29/2010 8:51:16 AM
Republicans Block Oil Spill Commission From Having Subpeona Powers
September 27, 2010 04:00 PM

The Republicans really just have no shame. The Democrats asked for unanimous consent in the Senate to pass legislation that would give the BP Oil Spill Commission subpoena power -- and surprise, surprise! Guess who stood up for them and objected? Wingnut Teabagger King Jim DeMint. Republicans don't want BP executives or any of the rest of them to have to testify under oath.

I'd be surprised if that commission was going to yield any news we haven't already heard anyway from those executives who did nothing but stonewall the last time they testified before a Congressional committee, but it looks like the Republicans don't want to take any chances and assure the committee will be toothless.


http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/republicans-block-oil-spill-commission-hav
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 769
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/29/2010 8:52:35 AM
We should just strike down the bill of rights, huh? They are null and void for certain tax brackets.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 770
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/29/2010 9:07:21 AM
Again why does that surprise anyone when the republicans suppress this?

It was Cheney and shrub who let the "drill baby drill" crowd loose early in their administration. Why then would you believe it would change now? Somehow they believe there will be one place on the planet, reserved for the uber wealthy that won't be affected by ecological disasters that affect everywhere else.

Why would BP testify? Because they want more business here. BUT that was before the well was capped. Now in BP's mind, it's time to move on, that's even what their sweet little ad campaign says, "we're here till it's all cleaned up, we promise"! Now be clear, there is a huge difference between "clean up" and "liability".

The lawyers have taken over, as well as their spin machine. If they testify, they maybe liable if things prove out to be neglience, or use of defective equipment.

Since the story has moved from page 1, to just near the obits, and plant section of the papers, why let it move back. Better to have the republicans, end run the subpeonas, then to just not show up. Foreign executives are not subject to the laws of the USA. It would be a PR nightmare if they didn't show, but this way it takes the onus off them, and puts it on our own legislaters. Joe and jane average, think the spill is over.

They're too busy watching "dancing with the stars" to bother with this sh1t now, so it won't affect the baggers and republicans in november. So it's back to the "potomac 2 step" and business as usual. They gotta get that graft..err campaign contributions doncha know.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 771
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 9/30/2010 1:26:17 PM
What the hell are you talking about?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 773
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/3/2010 5:54:59 AM
The spill was far worse than previous guesstimates and lies indicated.


Chemical and Engineering News October 1, 2010

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/88/i39/8839notw7.html

Oil Spill's Size Swells
Deepwater Horizon: Magnitude of gulf accident is far larger than previous estimates

By Elizabeth K. Wilson

Nearly 185 million gal of oil gushed into the Gulf of Mexico during BP's Deepwater Horizon spill, a number that's at least an order of magnitude higher than previous estimates, scientists report in Science
(DOI: 10.1126/science.1195840). This is the first independent, peer-reviewed paper to assess the spill's magnitude.

The report comes on the heels of BP's Sept. 18 announcement that it had finally installed a permanent concrete plug on the damaged well more than five months after an explosion tore a hole in the well and killed 11 workers.

To estimate the spill's size, marine geophysicists Timothy J. Crone and Maya Tolstoy of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University studied high-resolution videos of the fountain of oil pouring into the ocean and used fluid dynamics to estimate the flow rates. Their estimate, they caution, is still a ballpark figure, with an error margin of 20%.

The work "finally gives us a reading on what the magnitude of the disaster was," Florida State University oceanography professor Ian MacDonald tells C&EN. Until now, "we haven't had that."

The Flow Rate Technical Group, a consortium of federal and academic scientists assembled by the government and led by U.S. Geological Survey Director Marcia McNutt, has released four reports estimating the spill magnitude. On Aug. 2, the group issued a press release reporting flow rates similar to those from Crone and Tolstoy. The consortium's final report has not yet been disclosed.

MacDonald adds that the technical group's agreement with the published work is "heartening."

The spill's magnitude has been hotly debated, with ever more detailed studies resulting in increasing estimates. Early estimates of about 42,000 gal per day were soon eclipsed by new reports. A report released by the Flow Rate Technical Group on May 27 estimated the flow rate at between 50,000 and 80,000 gal per day. In comparison, Crone and Tolstoy estimate that during times of greatest flow, more than 2.5 million gal per day was escaping into the ocean.

Meanwhile, the White House has commissioned a research effort to study the effects of the spill on the environment. It will be headed by noted marine biologist Jane Lubchenco, the administrator of the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration.

Lubchenco tells C&EN that the agreement between the work of the Flow Rate Technical Group, which includes NOAA scientists, and the published research, "is valuable information for the public, and adds confidence in our collective efforts."

--
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 776
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/13/2010 3:09:50 PM
FYI, according to BBC news, deep-water drilling off the Gulf of Mexico is open again. It's going to have a lot more rules. But it's open for business.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 777
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/13/2010 7:14:42 PM
I was covered up with work during the Carter and Clinton administrations, and desperate for it during the trickled upon years of Raygun and then the bankrupted years of chickenBush II. Same dynamics, same chickenhawks, same blame games, same deregulations and consequences. Same deficit spending on military ventures.

But Raygun and Obama share some surprisingly common ground in this mucked up thing we call American Politics.
http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=3383
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 782
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/15/2010 12:39:12 PM
The Gulf of Mexico has always had dead zones in it from all the crap that comes tumbling down the Mississippi River. You know when the coral turns white because all the critters have died and theres nothing left but those sea worms? Dead coral, from river sludge.

I am attending a shrimp boil and fish fry on Galveston Island later this month. It is being hosted in order to show that the seafood from the Gulf is still viable. The recent cool snap here in Texas has made the oysters extra plump and huge, but it still won't offset the demand caused by the fact that the Louisiana oyster beds are dead.

We can expect seafood prices to rise sky-high soon. After the party, I'll come back and report on the quality of the food.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 783
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/15/2010 2:02:53 PM
Be careful Inconoclast...Keep charcoal tablets handy and do not hesitate to go to the ER if in doubt. The worst food poisoning I ever experienced came fresh from the Gulf. How to lose 10 pounds in 24 hours. The oysters were the culprit then. The dead zone, already at record size is now expected to expand the hypoxia from the slick laying on the bottom, working it's way up the food chain and into higher water columns over time.

The FDA is not testing for certain substances, perhaps because of political motivations.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/08/guest-post-fda-not-testing-gulf-seafood-for-mercury-arsenic-or-other-heavy-metals-because-we-do-not-expect-to-see-an-increase-based-on-this-spill.html
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 784
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/15/2010 2:50:13 PM
Thanks for the warning. I take it seriously and I'll be hyper-alert, I promise.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 785
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/15/2010 4:24:20 PM
If it tastes odd...follow your gut and don't swallow. That's where my senses failed me at they time. We were celebrating a birthday after a grand day on the beach. Alcohol may have played a role in losing that gut judgement of the tongue and gut. I've seen people eat "organic cleaning products", Mad Deer (via JCD..mad cow crossovers), drink contaminated tapwater and river water, and all sorts of public displays of incincerity to make a point. They cross the line when the industry shills entice civilians to consume organisms of mass destruction. Are the organizers sincere, informed, and privvy to the best science when doing such a protest against public opinion? Some things may be worth dying for. Somehow this one smells fishy from afar.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 787
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/15/2010 6:29:17 PM
Fossil fuels concentrate Mercury, depending on the source, sometimes more, sometimes less. Most of the mercury contamination that blankets the planet right now was released from fossil fuels, made more bioavailable, and accumulative in higher organisms.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TGF-4T4J883-6&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F15%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1500122244&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b32488edda218540bd2491d6fb9dc594&searchtype=a

Forests and other ecosystems have accumulated mercury from the age of fossil fuel combustion and when we re-release that Mercury by buring forests, we are resuspending fossil fuel sources.

We torched the Gulf in a moment of panic. Same principles apply when we torch other mercury sinks.
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Smoke-Biomass.htm

Sorry you didn't care to know these things paul.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 789
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/16/2010 6:53:05 AM
Well paul..Humans are the primary cause of deforestation, wildfires, extinctions, pollution, draining aquifers, poisoning rivers and the dead zone, soil depletion, WMDs, the 80,000 untested and widely used man-made chemicals that we introduce into our environs, and a host of other anthropogenic assaults on the natural world.

90% of forest fires are directly related to humans. There's one burning right now less than a mile from me in a steep canyon that will take days to bring under control. The fires around here, even natural ones from lightning strikes, tend to burn relatively cool and the forest recovers just fine compared to clear cutting and running huge machines roughshod over them.

Wood use for heating peaked over a century ago with a reprieve as we temporarily have used fossil fuels. Now however, a new round of massive deforestation is taking off to produce "green" energy via biomass incinerators for electricity. Everyone is jumping on the "green" bandwagon of biomass energy, despite the facts that there is more carbon emitted per BTU, the air pollution from fine particulates are far worse, and virtually none of the forestry, deforestation currently going on can be considered remotely sustainable. The new plan in Ohio for instance will create a demand for forests at the rate of 532% of annual growth. Same thing is happening in NC, MI, MA, WI, OR, and other states.

None of the current pulp and paper pine farms are in any way sustainable. The now require huge inputs of fossil fuel-based fertilization regimes to maintain growth after depleting soils. The new competitors, the biomass scammers, will also be needing to establish plantations at the expense of remaining forest cover. The plantations are as close to being a forest as a corn field is. GM Eucalyptus is now being touted as our salvation. Those plantations burn like roman candles and we have no godly idea what will happen to remaining native forest once the GM drift inevitably occurs.

The impending peak oil and coal cycles are pushing extremely poorly conceived ideas to the fore at the expense of real renewables, conservation and efficiency. The amount of mercury and radioactivity resuspended from this rush to burn will be extensive and detrimental to human and ecosystem health. Humans ARE the leading cause by far, of forest fires, deforestation, and devouring the annual solar input into flora.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 791
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The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 10/16/2010 11:05:37 AM
Actually, there is about 75% of the forested land than there was pre-Columbus infestation. While that does not sound so bad, monocultures and extremely simplified ecosystems are included in forest cover. Where there were once chestnut trees, elm, and other giants, there are now splindly remnants, far simpler in compostion, resiliency and vitality. We continue to import pestilence and disease that continue to decimate what remains. Pine farms are subject to brownouts from their propensity to help breed beetle outbreaks of biblical proportions. The pine farms are also sucking the last nutrients out of lands that may soon not be able to support even pine growth. Pine farms contain 90% less biodiversity than real forests. Some other considerations from the perspective of living in the "woodbasket", the South that provides 60% of forest products in the US.
•· The area of natural forest across the South declined from 356 million acres in colonial times to 182 million acres today.
•· Half of the forested wetlands of the South (35 million acres) have been lost.
•· Natural pine forests declined from 72 million acres in 1953 to 34 million acres in 1999.
•· Pine plantations have been displacing natural forests for the past 50 years and now occupy 32 million acres (15 percent) of the current Southern “forest.”
•· There are 14 forest community types in the South that have been reduced to less than 2% of their original range. Additionally, there are 25 forest community types that are at less than 15% of their original range and another 11 at less than 30% of their original range.
•· There are more threatened forested ecosystems in the South than any other region of the country.

In addition to the wetlands losses to pine farms, the pine farms disrupt hydrological cycles where they are established , drying up what were once year round stream flows. Pines also sequester half the carbon than real forests do.

With existing pressures, the loss of forests will continue to accelerate. The addition of the biomass energy scamsters will quickly double this rate of forest loss. Sprawl, mountain top removal, pestilence, disease and growing demands for forest products will reduce these woods to an increasingly small fraction of their current size.

As we panic about oil and coal running out, we have to come up with a plant that does not liquidate our life support system.
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