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 HeyJenny
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 134
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...Page 4 of 33    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33)
^^^^ I am really holding my tongue, or in this case my typing, in my reply to the "one" above me cause I will get deleted or possibly kicked off the site completely!

Here is one idea that BP hasn't managed to pull off yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2eXGOfH2pg

Anyone can search and find out for themselves that there is not enough of a response from anyone who could or should respond!! There are people with brains, more intelligent than the so called engineers who could work on getting the job done. If they need some ideas they should look for some on youtube,half joke/ half serious. The army corp of engineers did a great job with the levee off the coast, it was a joke. Then Katrina happened and we found out just how bad it was. We are now finding out again with this lack of response what kind of shape we're in . A good enough TRY is not good enough.

My role as a reasonable citizen? What the freak am I suppose to do without getting thrown in jail?

"They're trying" ^^^ he said. If they're trying, they are doing a half *** job. We need success, not "we're trying"
 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 135
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/22/2010 10:04:02 PM
The Ego is always more interested in defending itself, however ridiculous (hey it's never logical) rather then improving it's performance.

This whole BP thing sickens me too!

Isn't it obvious that this was a risk, they were taking? Or did safeguards just fail?
I mean, who knows? That's the thing. Few people, have any idea what the facts about anything really are!

In places like China and Japan, those responsible, would probably already have killed themselves. Like those at fault in the tainted pet food scandal. Say what you will about those cultures, I like that kind of mentality! Accountability! Not that it helps, in a situation like this, but it should be am incentive to better performance and behaviour!
 HeyJenny
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 136
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/22/2010 10:23:00 PM
^^^^ I know this is unrelated to the oil FLOW (not oil spill) It's still FLOWING !!!
Let's call it what it is.

After China killed my dog with their tainted dog biscuits and killed and sickened other's pets then they sickened and killed babies with tainted baby formula in 2008.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/09/18/china.tainted.formula/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I had to respond to what u typed, sorry everyone for going off topic!

Of course after killing our beloved pets and then the worse of all, human babies, we reward them by having the Olympics there.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 137
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/22/2010 10:29:09 PM
Why are you holding your tongue? What do you want to say to me that would get you banned?

What do you disagree with?

Do you honestly think BP isn't putting enormous resources into trying to fix this leak? You think they don't care that their stock price has plummeted 30% since this incident. It's still dropping like a rock.

BP has EVERY incentive to fix the problem. They're among the biggest losers here. The reason it isn't fixed isn't because BP wants to ruin the planet. It's because there has yet to be a fix devised. It's an extremely difficult technological challenge that unfortunately is going to take time to solve.


Am I happy about this? Of course not. But those are the facts.





What are you supposed to do? I don't know. That's for you to decide.

I, personally, have emailed my representative and both of my senators requesting sternly that they work to clean the mess and make sure every dollar spent is charged to the BP stockholders. And I've been encouraging everyone I know to do the same. That's exactly what I've been doing here.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 140
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/23/2010 8:35:55 AM

Do you honestly think BP isn't putting enormous resources into trying to fix this leak? You think they don't care that their stock price has plummeted 30% since this incident. It's still dropping like a rock.

BP has EVERY incentive to fix the problem. They're among the biggest losers here


Only because it's about the money honey. They are not losing with the enviroment getting destroyed,,,,just the complete opposite, in fact. Only reason they are running around AFTER the fact is that their bank account is taking a hit. They cut corners when drilling(for that $$$$$$$$) and they will do they same here trying to stop the $$$$$$ pouring into the ocean.


They have been stalling on the real best fix hoping to get away with the most profitable fix.


This,,,more than likely will come to light after this gong show is all over with. I'll be dead when it surfaces,,,be it will show up. We,as a society,,,will NOT learn from it thou. I've even heard that they don't know what effect to the enviroment the clean-up tactics will have in the long run. Again,,,won't matter to some us,,,we won't be here.
 dalane75
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 141
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/23/2010 11:26:01 PM
In this case, oddly enough, the general point of Ub I have to agree with it. BP and the government may have been negligent, but it is not only BP and the U.S. government that was negligent. The spill is in International Waters so the international community is at fault. However, because it is close to U.S. waters any effects from the spill apply to U.S. law. In this sense only, the consequences of the spill when it reaches U.S. jurisdiction and not the spill itself, apply to U.S. regulation (which I am not sure of but seems to be the case).

Furthermore, a cost-benefit analysis on the part of BP, the U.S. government, and the International Community, suggests that their approach was not only rational but also justified. As my brother-in-law (he headed a department in the Consumer Protection Agency and not works with the military running numbers on weaponry, a doctorates in statistics, and leans towards a liberal progressive political stance but claims to be a moderate) once explained to me, the approach they have to take is the benefits compared to the costs. For instance, if a drug will help 'cure' 100,000 people but 'hurt' 5 then the benefits outweigh the cost. This applies to products on the market such as grills, balls, ball point pins, and weaponry.

If the numbers are run (I am very weak in statistics so if anyone else can elaborate please do) the costs of the likelihood of a spill fell short of the benefits such as cheap gas, plastics, cosmetics, etc that depend on the oil. This is not an inhumane approach but possibly the only humane and rational process in decision making available.

The only question in this case that we need to be concerned with is what happens now. This in many ways calls for an agreement on values. That is it. How valuable are the possible costs? Framing the issue in this way I believe can provide possible avenues of agreement. Given the spill is in International Waters, what should the International Community do, the U.S., etc. What kind of costs are legitimate? Shall we redefine negligence, criminal prosecution, and monetary costs? What is the value of an eco-system and can new technologies help in sustaining a balance of the value of that system? Should there be less regulation but higher costs for similar cases, or more regulation and higher costs, or more regulation but lower costs, or keep things the same?

My only opinion, which I think many of you including Ub, would agree with is that higher penalities need to be in place. I also know that I should study International Law and how it relates to corporations and businesses. I think that is the most important step we need to take.
 dalane75
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 142
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/23/2010 11:39:01 PM
I add that hindsight is 20-20 and that we should also explore the value of its benefits. It thus becomes a question of values which may seem to be insolvable but at least progresses the discussion from who is to blame to what should be done.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 143
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 4:37:26 AM

Furthermore, a cost-benefit analysis on the part of BP, the U.S. government, and the International Community, suggests that their approach was not only rational but also justified.


Only for those that look at $$$$$$$$$ as the main reason/excuse to do anything. Whenever anyone uses the weak,feeble,generic excuse/reason of helping the "economy" they are tugging at the one thing that most think is "important",,,,and that's $$$$$$$$$$$$ or the general public's wallet. Like I said,,,weak at best.

I wonder how long the "analysis" suggests that this oil can leak uncontrolabley into the ocean before it becomes less "justified"??????They WOULD have done THAT analysis,,,,wouldn't of they??????? Ya know,,,in the name of the economy..........

Sooner or later some of you will have to understand that anyone can make up any reason up to satisify this society's requirement of keep the "economy" going. Silly, silly, silly.
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 146
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 2:19:47 PM
I can't believe you people are still talking about this.
I spent a half hour telling my 10 yr old the otherday that this isn't
wd40 squirted on a pool toy to make it more slippery.
It's like tar and it turns to milk when it gets frothed in
the waves. It's not just at the top. It's in layers through the water.
The heavier gunk than the water density doesn't rise to the surface.
Just be glad it's salt water. More density.
You can scrape it off then. More floats to the top.

Here's what it come's down to:
Think of a martian movie and you're trying to get there to
save the martians. Better hurry.
Do you realize the next act of bp is to shoot mud and concrete down
5000 feet into a tube? No clue, huh. Yeah, that's how they like the media to be.
Bullshyt 'em with execs. That's why they get the big bucks.
I don't blaim them for rejecting 10,000 plus suggestions.
Try swimming down a mile to see what's going on.
You people have no clue.
This is a decades thing and not days.
And that's just fact.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 148
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 2:57:25 PM
It was disconcerting to say the least, when a Coast Guard spokesman resisted the call for the US to take the containment of the leak and preventative measures to halt landfall. The CG spokesman said in effect, nobody can do this better than BP. If this is the best that anyone can do, we are royally screwed. How many others out there are taking short cuts, refusing to invest in acoustic triggers, and other needed measures to never repeat this again?

I live inland in an area where many hurricanes pass over and drop copious amounts of rain from the Gulf. Most of the 60 inches of the rain we receive in a given year comes from the moist air coming out of the Gulf. Someone sent this to me today. The source is a bit dubious as is some of the science and rhetoric, but the scenario has run around in my head since this criminal act began. Has anyone seen a credible source concerning the potential impacts of the dispersants, gas and oil compoponents being absorbed into the atmosphere above the gulf or sucked up into a hurricane and deposited across vast swaths of land and the implications thereof? I would love to believe that the scenario below is impossible.


http://current.com/1emi04c
Toxic Oil Spill Rains Warned Could Destroy North America
// added May 23, 2010 // 34 comments // 784 views

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/48/232/Toxic_Oil_Spill_Rains_Warned_Co...
By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

A dire report prepared for President Medvedev by Russia’s Ministry of Natural Resources is warning today that the British Petroleum (BP) oil and gas leak in the Gulf of Mexico is about to become the worst environmental catastrophe in all of human history threatening the entire eastern half of the North American continent with “total destruction”.

Russian scientists are basing their apocalyptic destruction assessment due to BP’s use of millions of gallons of the chemical dispersal agent known as Corexit 9500 which is being pumped directly into the leak of this wellhead over a mile under the Gulf of Mexico waters and designed, this report says, to keep hidden from the American public the full, and tragic, extent of this leak that is now estimated to be over 2.9 million gallons a day.

The dispersal agent Corexit 9500 is a solvent originally developed by Exxon and now manufactured by the Nalco Holding Company of Naperville, Illinois that is four times more toxic than oil (oil is toxic at 11 ppm (parts per million), Corexit 9500 at only 2.61ppm). In a report written by Anita George-Ares and James R. Clark for Exxon Biomedical Sciences, Inc. titled “Acute Aquatic Toxicity of Three Corexit Products: An Overview” Corexit 9500 was found to be one of the most toxic dispersal agents ever developed. Even worse, according to this report, with higher water temperatures, like those now occurring in the Gulf of Mexico, its toxicity grows.

The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in discovering BP’s use of this dangerous dispersal agent ordered BP to stop using it, but BP refused stating that their only alternative to Corexit 9500 was an even more dangerous dispersal agent known as Sea Brat 4.

The main differences between Corexit 9500 and Sea Brat 4 lie in how long these dangerous chemicals take to degrade into their constituent organic compounds, which for Corexit 9500 is 28 days. Sea Brat 4, on the other hand, degrades into an organic chemical called Nonylphenol that is toxic to aquatic life and can persist in the environment for years.

A greater danger involving Corexit 9500, and as outlined by Russian scientists in this report, is that with its 2.61ppm toxicity level, and when combined with the heating Gulf of Mexico waters, its molecules will be able to “phase transition” from their present liquid to a gaseous state allowing them to be absorbed into clouds and allowing their release as “toxic rain” upon all of Eastern North America.

Even worse, should a Katrina like tropical hurricane form in the Gulf of Mexico while tens of millions of gallons of Corexit 9500 are sitting on, or near, its surface the resulting “toxic rain” falling upon the North American continent could “theoretically” destroy all microbial life to any depth it reaches resulting in an “unimaginable environmental catastrophe” destroying all life forms from the “bottom of the evolutionary chart to the top”.

Note: For molecules of a liquid to evaporate, they must be located near the surface, be moving in the proper direction, and have sufficient kinetic energy to overcome liquid-phase intermolecular forces. Only a small proportion of the molecules meet these criteria, so the rate of evaporation is limited. Since the kinetic energy of a molecule is proportional to its temperature, evaporation proceeds more quickly at higher temperatures.

As over 50 miles of the US State of Louisiana’s coastline has already been destroyed by this spill, American scientists are warning that the damage may be impossible to repair, and as we can read as reported by the Associated Press News Service:

“The gooey oil washing into the maze of marshes along the Gulf Coast could prove impossible to remove, leaving a toxic stew lethal to fish and wildlife, government officials and independent scientists said. Officials are considering some drastic and risky solutions: They could set the wetlands on fire or flood areas in hopes of floating out the oil. They warn an aggressive cleanup could ruin the marshes and do more harm than good.”

And to understand the full import of this catastrophe it must be remembered that this disaster is occurring in what is described as the “biologically richest waters in America” with the greatest amount of oil and toxic Corexit 9500 set to come ashore in the coming days and weeks to destroy it completely for decades to come.

Reports are also coming from the United States that their government is secretly preparing to evacuate tens-of-millions of their citizens from their Gulf of Mexico States should the most dire of these scientific warnings start to come true.

To the greatest lesson to be learned by these Americans is that their government-oil industry cabal has been just as destructive to them as their government-banking one, both of which have done more to destroy the United States these past couple of years than any foreign enemy could dare dream was possible.

But to their greatest enemy the Americans need look no further than their nearest mirror as they are the ones who allowed these monsters to rule over them in the first place.


end snip...
 itisasitis
Joined: 5/18/2010
Msg: 149
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 5:03:56 PM
Seems to me if the thing hasn't been stopped by now, it can't be stopped. It will just have to run until it cannot any more. No one talks about that real possibility and what it means for deep offshore drilling in general.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 150
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 5:50:38 PM

Maybe they should have just nuked it.

Good one
But remember you have to label some one a terrorist before you can feel comfortable doing that
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 151
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 5:59:31 PM
I suspect the concrete mud will do the trick

But that will mean that they will have to drill another well to access the oil again.

Would have been cheaper to be able to tap into the oil with the fix.

Executive decision Environment or financial gain ?

The cost of letting the market decide
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 152
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/24/2010 7:01:13 PM
Why should B.P. care about what happens here in the U.S.? We will still buy gas.
We will still use American tax dollars for the clean up.
I sure love the way our President stepped up to the plate.
I guess even he doesn't care about environmental issues.
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 155
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/25/2010 11:17:17 AM

Well Brawnydog...

It appears that they are able to drill that deep... Soooo how come they have no back up plan to remedy to problematic situations then...

They CAN get there and DRILL but now they cannot get there to FIX anything?...



The bottom line is.. don't break shyt that people can't get their hands on
to repair. That makes stuff really hard to fix.
Even if you went to an ivy league school.
That's my last comment on this.
Next thing they're gonna do is fvck up the sun.
I'm only 5' 10". yanno.. it's not like changing a light bulb.
arf
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 156
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/25/2010 3:28:26 PM
Andy Borowitz reports an idea that many of us have proposed from the beginning...
http://www.borowitzreport.com/
Experts Propose Plugging Oil Leak with BP Executives
Submerging Execs Could Be 'Win-Win'


WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – At a conference of oil leak experts in Washington today, attendees proposed plugging the massive oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico with executives of BP, the company responsible for the catastrophic spill.

“We’ve tried containment domes, rubber tires, and even golf balls,” said William Cathermeyer of the National Oil Leakage Institute, a leading consultancy in the field of oil leaks. “Now it’s time to shove some BP executives down there and hope for the best.”

Submerging the oil company executives thousands of feet below the ocean’s surface could be a “win-win” situation, Mr. Cathermeyer said.

“Best-case scenario, they plug the leak,” he said. “And at the very least, they’ll shut the f*ck up.”

But even as the oil leak experts proposed their unorthodox solution, environmental expert Marilyn Sufranski warned of the possible negative consequences of plugging the oil leak with BP executives.

“The Gulf of Mexico is slimy enough already,” she said.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 159
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/26/2010 7:49:43 AM
Maybe Mother nature will teach man to quit screwing with her.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 162
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/26/2010 9:40:22 PM
^^^Till Americans dont care anymore about going to jail and become complete anarchists against the government. What happens in nature when you back an animal into a corner? When you have nothing left because the government has betrayed you as a tax payer, what will you have left to lose? Its only a matter of time before people stop giving a shoot in masses nation wide. I dont see peaceful protests either.
 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 163
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/27/2010 10:12:08 AM
I just saw a little blurb on unknowncountry.com.

Seems****Cheney's Company, Halliburton was responsible for the concrete plug that failed (if there is any truth to that)!

But if it's true, isn't it amazing how the same gangsters (at the top) can fuk us so many ways!

I would put them ALL (feet first) into the soda pop shredding machine, as was done in the good old days of Saddam! ESPECIALLY after this!

As far as protests go. Look at what's happening globally! This IS (I believe) a sign of things to come! And NO, they arn't and won't be peaceful!

 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 166
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/27/2010 3:01:45 PM
Thanks Quietjohn, for putting my mind at a relative ease after that dubious link I posted. Having gone through many a hurricane inland, with their 8-15 inch rainfalls, that prospect of chemical rain is a frightening scenario. Have seen the horrid effects of acid rain in the high elevations of the Smokey Mountains and would hate to see that across the entire landscape.

I'm with you on jail time and oil-chain-gang duty for those responsible for this. BP's safety record and history as a responsible corporate citizen is abysmal at best and downright criminal in many ways. It's nice that they've spent 4 days worth of profit since the spill began. It's too bad nobody had thought to think of how to quickly address this worst case scenario before the drilling began. Sex, drugs, skeet shoots, golf and rock and roll with the good folks of the MMS was probably nice for them.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/147014/10_things_you_need_%28but_don%27t_want%29_to_know_about_the_bp_oil_spill/

Under the water..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lBQkNgY3bY&feature=player_embedded
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 167
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/27/2010 9:22:31 PM
It is possible that the cement mud fix had to be the last in the list because it had the possibility of not fixing the leak and the other options would not have been feasible after a failed cement mud fix.

Of course I am only speculating in ignorance
 HeyJenny
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 170
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/31/2010 1:33:53 AM
I just heard late Sunday,May 30 the latest news, they said they won't be able to cap it till LATE AUGUST !! I did find other sites are saying just August. Here is one...

http://www.truthout.org/bp-oil-spill-top-kill-failure-means-well-may-gush-until-august59982

If you like shrimp you may want to eat /buy it now.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 171
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/31/2010 1:59:30 AM
That nice, while frinds n the area are reporting that wildlife is dead everywhere around them and people are even getting sick from the chemicals in the water.
 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 172
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/31/2010 11:28:59 AM
Look on the bright side. Sick or dead people, won't be needing any more oil!

Six point something billion. When will the herd be significantly thinned? These little disasters here and there simply isn't making much of an impact!
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 173
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 5/31/2010 11:33:48 AM

Look on the bright side. Sick or dead people, won't be needing any more oil!

Six point something billion. When will the herd be significantly thinned? These little disasters here and there simply isn't making much of an impact!

Well, one good thing about this kind of thread: it makes it very clear who has issues with self-loathing... or just hates EVERYONE ELSE.
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