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 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 184
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...Page 5 of 33    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33)
Margo:

I am all in favour of protest! The problem is that things have gone beyond repairable. Our civilization is or was like a house of cards. We witness it crumbling now, and NOTHING can stop it! Being personally prepared won't help, because the millions that don't have what you have will simply kill you! And forming armed camps, won't help either, because you will just be targeted by the military or Federal Police!

But enough of that! That's our own fault and humans (as a whole) will get what they deserve!

The sea turtles and wales are suffering and dying as I write this! Not to mention the myriad of other innocent creatures!
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 185
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 4:11:11 PM
Its like a life time of being concerned with environmental issues has gone POOF! down the tubes~ You are so right and armed citizens are no match for the military. It will be one bigger mess and it is coming in our life time. The chaos will happen because it is crumbling as we speak. Poor little politicians; America will become a worthless wasteland of their own making.
 desertrhino
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 186
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 5:03:35 PM

Margo:

I am all in favour of protest! The problem is that things have gone beyond repairable. Our civilization is or was like a house of cards. We witness it crumbling now, and NOTHING can stop it! Being personally prepared won't help, because the millions that don't have what you have will simply kill you! And forming armed camps, won't help either, because you will just be targeted by the military or Federal Police!

But enough of that! That's our own fault and humans (as a whole) will get what they deserve!

The sea turtles and wales are suffering and dying as I write this! Not to mention the myriad of other innocent creatures!

I have to say, the only thing I can see doing that is logically and ethically consistent with the above sentiment is committing suicide.

Remember to leave your affairs in order though, just in case your heirs do happen to inexplicably live beyond next week and have to clean up your mess.
 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 187
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 6:16:18 PM
Suicide is only unacceptable to some, not all! Remember, it's all about belief systems!

I saw on TV last night, muggings in South Africa, caught on camera, in broad daylight amongst large crowds. I have seen much ugliness and even had a friend shot in the face, point blank, with a sawed off 12 gauge, but that scene on yesterday's news sent a chill through me, for maybe I do see it in our future!

To say, Humans will get what they deserve isn't quite accurate. It isn't about some punishment being carried out. That is more a product of MY own frustration with humanity and yes, I include myself and my awful ego in that bunch! lol No, it's more a matter of having to bear the unfortunate consequences of what WE have created, allowed to have been created or just prefered to turn a blind eye! We are ALL responsible for what is happening and what is to come! You aint seen nothing yet!

EDIT: Oh, and just for what it's worth. Some more intelligent species of Mammals like wales and dolphins have been known to commit suicide from all apparent indications!
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 188
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 6:24:30 PM
Thats the entire point Im making. I may not be suicidal but take a good look around at what is in your own communities. Armed criminals already have arsenals and dont give a hoot. Organized armed criminals with an education are dangerous and the government better make changes quick or face the consequences of their own actions. Thats the point, and you are right handy man.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 189
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 6:27:07 PM


You are so right and armed citizens are no match for the military. It will be one bigger mess and it is coming in our life time.


The miltary has its hands full with Iraq and Afghanistan. I wonder what the soldiers will do when the generals tell them to open fire on their brothers?
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 190
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 6:33:48 PM
I dont know but I think we will all find out before we die.
Maybe they will become the true anarchists.
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 191
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 8:18:48 PM
And I thought I was good at stealing threads. sheesus!
Y'all know that the civil war killed more "americans" than any other?
That's because you're only shooting at each other. I don't see that
happening again in the near future. Wtf?
We've gone from trying to build a house a mile under the ocean to
cap an oil spill.. to a revolution of naturalist militants.
Neither one is gonna happen. We just have to sit back and watch.
That's why they call it entertainment, folks.
 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 192
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/2/2010 8:55:58 PM
You are young! The likelihood is that you will see (and maybe remember this warning) these things we speak of. Hell! You ARE seeing them unfold, but may not recognise the importance, or like many, don't want to. Just order your latte and listen to your music, as usual! lol

Not really getting off track here. Everything is so interconnected (That house of cards I spoke of). Ever see James Burke's (sp?) series on inventions? "Connections" How things evolved unexpectedly in the most round about ways? Fascinating stuff! Anyway. This Gulf thing is an environmental catastrophe, but also just one more HUGE financial hit! It affects the livelihood of many, and again this is ANOTHER hit. Just more and more layers of the onion, coming off!

If everything was peachy keen (no disasters or wars), things already would be doomed! The enormous debt, and the fact that there is no money to pay to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure that we (especially increasing populations) depend on. All this stuff we built, will cost MANY, MANY times what it originally cost to build, to repair or replace! Not to mention, the inconvenience!

We have in fact painted ourselves into a corner!
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 194
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/3/2010 5:11:35 AM
Krebby...We can only hope that this is the wakeup call that turns the global culture away from the current boom/bust messy, bloody model that devours the planet, toward one that lives in a sustainable manner, equitable toward the next generations and the rest of life on Earth.

But, many of us are wary of that possibility ever happening given the stupidity of misleadership that we are stuck with in our growing idiocracy around the world. Much of the current post-oil pipe dream being promoted now involves the liquidation of forests and soils to make "bio-fuels". Most folks who have looked at it, now understand how useless, and even negative the food-to-fuel, Ethanol scam has been. All the wasted subsidies and hype over alternative fuels has thus far, given us less power per gallon, takes more fossil fuels to produce, more carbon than gas, kills small engines, drives up food prices, drives small farmers out of business, drains aquifers, increases nitrogen pollution in waterways, increases ozone pollution, depletes soils...etc..etc. Bio-diesel has accelerated deforestation by an order of magnitude, driven indigenous people off lands, also contributes more carbon per btu than diesel, corrodes infrastructure, depletes soils, pollutes waters, etc...

The next much touted phase, cellulosic ethanol, will immediately drive deforestation to historically unprecedented levels and speed, wipe out any remaining organic nutrient returns to ag soils, involve the introduction of potentially devastating Frankentrees, also involves higher carbon releases per btu than fossil fuels, and increase the fine particulate matter being emitted into the air affecting the young, elderly and eventually all of us.

The current emphasis on these non-solutions are guaranteed to make matters worse, accelerate carbon releases into the atmosphere, do nothing to address much needed conservation, efficiency and the development of actual renewable energy sources, nor do a damned thing for energy security or global peace. The US has a one year supply of forests standing if we were to convert them to fuel. Then what?

We are stuck with pandering politicians, many a subsidiary of their corporate overlords, making decisions that make it look like they are doing something, when in fact, they are making matters worse. Even the intelligent ones among our decision makers will go out of their way to avoid the inconvenient truths that biofuels cannot save us or be sustainable at our current rates of energy consumption. Ain't gonna happen.

snip..
Global Forest Coalition Global Justice Ecology Project Biofuelwatch



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE JUNE 2, 2010


New Report Reveals Major Threats to Forests and Communities from Bioenergy

Forest Advocacy groups from three continents released a new report today that reveals the threat bioenergy poses to forests and forest-dependent peoples. The report warns that U.S. plans for wood-based bioenergy, biochar and genetically engineered trees (GE trees) will worsen a dangerous situation.

Bonn, Germany - Global Justice Ecology Project, Global Forest Coalition and Biofuelwatch [1] released Wood-based Bioenergy: The Green Lie, [2] at the UN climate talks today in Bonn, Germany. The report shows that increased support for the burning of wood to produce energy (bioenergy) is triggering increased logging and expansion of industrial tree plantations in the U.S., Ghana, the Congo, Brazil and West Papua. U.S. plans for large-scale expansion of bioenergy and the U.S. Climate Bill promotion of biochar [3], combined with the recent USDA approval of a large-scale release of GE trees in the U.S. South, threaten to devastate forests and communities.

The demand for trees for so-called "renewable energy" from wood in the form of wood-fired power stations as well as the co-firing of wood with coal is massively increasing. It will further escalate with an entirely new market for biochar through subsidies and carbon offsets. It coincides with a USDA decision to allow the planting of over a quarter of a million GE eucalyptus trees across seven states in the U.S. South. [4]

"In spite of global opposition to GE trees, the USDA has approved planting of 260,000 cold-tolerant eucalyptus trees in the southern U.S.," stated Anne Petermann of Global Justice Ecology Project. "Eucalyptus is invasive, flammable, and depletes water. This will set a dangerous precedent that could lead to large-scale releases of GE versions of native trees like poplars-which would contaminate native forests. Trees spread pollen and seeds for hundreds of miles and once contamination occurs it is irreversible."

Wood is projected to become the main source of renewable energy in the U.S., and is already intensifying logging in U.S. forests. GE tree plantations are being promoted on the pretense that they can help meet the fast growing demand for wood, but they pose unacceptable risks including the destruction of native forests to make room for new GE tree plantations. Biochar is also a threat.

"The Senate version of the U.S. climate bill, the American Power Act has alarming provisions that will dramatically increase production of biochar," explained Rachel Smolker, of Biofuelwatch in the U.S. "The idea that we can heal the climate by burning trees and burying charcoal is unfounded, untested and dangerous. A letter to Congress from 90 top scientists this past week challenged industry claims that burning trees for energy is 'carbon neutral.'"

Fiu Elisara Mata'ese, Director of the Samoan NGO Ole Siosiomaga Society expressed his concerns about the impacts that this new demand for wood will have on Indigenous Peoples: "Large scale demand from the North will have serious impacts on Indigenous communities, that will lose their forests to legal and illegal logging, as well as conversion to tree plantations. The argument that these plantations will be on 'marginal' lands, and will not compete with peoples' livelihoods or food production is false. So-called 'Marginal' lands play a vital role in rural people's livelihoods, providing medicinal plants, grazing, food and shelter."

"As the U.S. and other nations turn to burning plants for energy, changing use of land will have global ramifications," stated Simone Lovera, Executive Director of Global Forest Coalition. "For example, agricultural lands are shifting to grow bioenergy crops instead of food. New agricultural lands come at the expense of forests. The process ends with displacement of forest dependent Indigenous Peoples and massive land grabs. Wood-based bioenergy is an absolutely false solution to climate change."


Contact: Anne Petermann, Global Justice Ecology Project +1.802.578.0477 (in Bonn, Germany)
Orin Langelle, Global Justice Ecology Project, +1.802.578.6980 (in the U.S.)

Notes:
[1] Global Justice Ecology Project (GJEP) www.globaljusticeecology.org is a U.S.-based group working nationally and globally to explore and expose the intertwined root causes of social injustice, ecological destruction and economic domination.

GJEP coordinates the STOP GE Trees Campaign www.nogetrees.org .

Biofuelwatch www.biofuelwatch.org.uk campaigns against industrial bioenergy in the U.S. and Europe.

Global Forest Coalition: www.globalforestcoalition.org is a worldwide network of NGOs and Indigenous Peoples' Organizations from over 35 countries on 6 continents, working on rights-based forest policy.

[2] To download the report "Wood Based Bioenergy: The Green Lie" go to: http://www.globalforestcoalition.org/news/view/197. For more information on bioenergy: http://www.globalforestcoalition.org/paginas/view/244

[3] Biochar is fine-grained charcoal added to soils. It is a byproduct of a form of bioenergy production called pyrolysis. Advocates claim that biochar can help raise soil fertility and mitigate climate change, but there is no clear evidence to back up these claims. There is evidence, however, that biochar could damage soils and climate, accelerate logging and increase demand for industrial tree plantations.

[4] For more information on the USDA approval of genetically engineered eucalyptus trees: http://www.globaljusticeecology.org/pressroom.php?ID=398



end snip..
 That Handy Man
Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 195
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/3/2010 6:23:12 AM
One could argue that we have been here before. Yes maybe in unrecorded and mostly forgotten civilizations. And they are GONE!

The problem, today is that we have created so many traps. I live on an Organic Farm, yet probably couldn't feed myself to save my life! lol My food comes daily into the supermarket from up to thousands of miles away! The fuel I use in my tractors (not that I personally farm) and truck come from places like where this disaster is unfolding. I can't revert back to oxen pulling a plow, if I had to. I simply don't have that knowledge and, where would I even get seed?

Everything I have and rely on comes from far away and is totally beyond my control. With the possibility of no hydro, no Internet and no communications, I'm basically fuked! AND, I am one of the MORE self sufficient ones. For examples, just look at Katrina, or what happened during various wide scale power outages and ice storms. Suddenly, one by one, things you count on, simply don't work anymore, or are overwhelmed! And often the worst thing is, you can't even get information as to when, help MAY arrive or services MAY be restored. One of the stories I always get a chuckle out of, was during Katrina, where some COPS had stolen a generator and were holed up in a Hotel, basically partying, not helping anyone but themselves, protecting their little oasis, with the authority they had! Nice!
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 197
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/3/2010 11:01:52 AM
the meek get nothing but a dried up tit..
then the kitty get's weak just a bit
and then it morts because the survival of the fittest theory holds true.
but, that's just a bit more of the blues

anyway, don't mess with mother nature
she's an extremely sensitive creature
ask a goddess of earth if you don't believe me
they all have daughter's a plenty

Crack open the ocean and see what spills out.
Her blood.
and she'll keep crying until she dies.
it's like an ant farm trying to harvest a gold mine.
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 200
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/4/2010 10:17:48 AM
That's exactly what I've been talking about.
And krebby is dead on too.
Everything bp is doing right now is misdirection until the new
wells get drilled. It's hollywood minus the nature channel.
Blaim it on reality tv.

All they're doing right now is pretending that they're doing something
while they're drilling down once again to try to cure the situation.
If that's not irony..
And they're guessing a couple months.
People are watching this time.
Many, many people.
I bet that makes 'em paranoid. Yanno it?

Though it's pretty dark a mile down.
Something you have to take someone else's word on.
Pick a scapegoat.
There are plenty to be found without a doubt.

I'm still laughing that the robot got the diamond blade saw stuck.
hahaha "Hey, bubba.. what else ya got in the back of the truck?"
I bet that's not funny if you're up there in the panhandle.
sorry, just trying to make things more simple.

You could toss pressure figures at the general public all day long and
they couldn't comprehend without some kind of word picture.
Imagine crushing a beer can is the best I came up with.
And "league" is an extremely vague term.
It amazes me that we even have robots that can perform at such depths.
This is much more complicated than space.
There's no pressure out there. All we've done so far is poke the moon a couple
times and annoy mars as voyeurs. James bond didn't really happen.
But, I think he was english.....

Let's fight the english again.
Now there's a brainstorm.
I bet all of the militant naturalists are listening..
fvck the queen!

the reason that bp or shell is over here is for the same reason
that we get tossed to manilla when we call a local number for techs.
I think someone at disney said it best.. It's a small world after all.
Didn't they shut that ride down because some kid got killed?
It was either that or the teacup one. Anybody know?

I don't want to be discredited.
moo
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 203
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/6/2010 2:40:30 PM
"What are your views and thoughts on this disaster"

Well a couple of things, first it is an ecological disaster of biblical or epic proportions. It should be handled WAY better than the fluff and BS being spoon fed to the public. He11 they can't even be honest about how much oil is coming out of the pipe!

Next ALL assets of BP should be seized NOW! Executives should have to give back all the juicy bouses they received in the years since this rig started pumping.

Next they should shut that other rig Atlantis I think it's called, that is the same as the Horizon rig, cause that's what we need, a sequel to this spill.

Finally, after all the fines, the cleanup over a continuing cleanup for 10 or 15 years needs to be put in place. THEN we should put the executives of BP and the other companies on trial for murder for the 11 dead men. Convict them, have them forfeit their assets, and serve the sentences to run not concurrently but one after the other, with no possibility of parole, in the worst prison we can find in this country.

While that wouldn't make me happy, it would go a long way toward showing the world true justice. Then amend the laws, for future drilling rights, to make sure it NEVER happens again.
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 204
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/7/2010 9:32:32 AM
Here's something I hadn't thought about until I read about it today:
Turns out there aren't too many judges who don't have to recuse themselves
from bp lawsuits down here in the south. Conflict of interest. They own stock in oil, minerals, or any even remotely close. That's just an unbiased statement. Prolly a great investment.
Judges are bailing, though. That's the judicial part of the system, right?
I think janet reno should preside. Better yet.. judge judy.
She doesn't take any bullshyt. Yanno it?
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 207
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/7/2010 5:11:16 PM
I can only imagine in my some what warped brain the Judge Judy approach to a major ecological disaster... Thats a good one there Brawny...
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 208
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/7/2010 10:38:00 PM

Well a couple of things, first it is an ecological disaster of biblical or epic proportions. It should be handled WAY better than the fluff and BS being spoon fed to the public. He11 they can't even be honest about how much oil is coming out of the pipe!

They don't really know. It's not really possible to exactly know. The best they can do is give an educated guess. They're doing exactly what they should be doing. When major experts were asked, they said "we'd be doing exactly the same thing BP is doing".


Next ALL assets of BP should be seized NOW! Executives should have to give back all the juicy bouses they received in the years since this rig started pumping.

What? Why? What would stealing BP assets accomplish?


Finally, after all the fines

You want to fine them AND seize their assets? How are they supposed to pay a fine?


THEN we should put the executives of BP and the other companies on trial for murder for the 11 dead men.

Okay, so you don't know what "murder" means. Moving on...


Then amend the laws, for future drilling rights, to make sure it NEVER happens again.

Perhaps instead of all the nonsense above, you could've skipped to how you would accomplish this.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 210
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 1:30:34 AM
I'm not rallying for BP. I'm addressing a post of utter nonsense. Just because it has an anti-BP sentiment you agree with the crap he said? Would you agree that all BP's shareholders should be systematically wiped out, too? I mean, hey, it's an anti-BP sentiment. So it's cool, right? I'd be ridiculous to defend BP!
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 213
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 9:25:26 AM
I guess you never heard of Enron? All those shareholders were wiped out by fraud. Is this not another case of fraud? Did they not say prior to drilling they "had the capacity to stop any spill"? Now they say "we never saw anything like this", wasn't it a possibility.

Yeah your OK, with how their handling it I guess. Would you think that same way if that boat you have was moored in Mississippi, Florida or Louisiana?

Be honest here people, they could have used explosives to seal the well. They didn't so they could keep making money from this well, when and if they can contain the spill, fix the well and keep on like it never happened.

As for criminal charges, the FBI is down there investigating, hopefully they find something.

When something as bad as this happens, the fact that some are not outraged, amazes me. Everyone keeps saying it'll be OK, BP will handle it, how? There is no accountability, everyone in government, keeps on keeping on, mean while those folks in the gulf will not be the same EVER!! Look at the Valdez spill, things in that region are still screwed up, from that insignificant (compared to this) amount of oil.

That the poster is not outraged at the rape of his country, just makes me sick.

At any rate, you have your opinion, you don't like mine, tough.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 214
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 10:47:56 AM
The industry has reservoir and drilling engineers capable of determining well output--basically it is profit driven....volume and cost delivered to refineries based on oil futures versus well output and extraction costs.

What? This has absolutely nothing to do with how much flow is coming out of a broken well. None of that does.


They could of explosively welded the pipe shut within a few days. They could of clamped the pipe and restricted the flow. Nope, they are still focused on extraction on oil.

....What?! I'm stunned at how much you don't understand this issue. No they couldn't have just explosively welded the pipe shut. It'd be nice if they could have, but that wouldn't stop any flow because the pipe is broken. The casing attached to the pipe wouldn't just nicely close up and seal as you would need with explosive welding. Who told you this stuff? You need to stop listening to them.



What would stealing BP assets accomplish?

To BP? Or all the other oil companies scurrying around before government regulations are proposed, all of them saying....'glad it was BP not us!' It would force the industry to take the environment seriously.

What the hell are you talking about? Seizing all BP assets (and "all the other oil companies") would force them out of business, not force them to take the environment seriously.


Corporations aren't exempt from laws--even though they practically own 'the law'. Depraved indifference.

You're right. They aren't exempt from laws. And murder is legally defined as intentional homicide with malice aforethought. So, according to the laws that they aren't exempt from, they didn't even NEARLY commit murder.


Why would BP lie about amount? Fines are based on amount spilled, I think it is around $1,ooo/bbl...1 bbl is around 42 gallons. Adds up....sinks stocks.
Why let it keep leaking? Stopping the leak means waiting until September for new wells to be ready to produce again. At least these siphons and caps are 'STILL PRODUCING'. I've also read that the maximum fine would be about $75 million, I think their 2009 profits were closer to $29 billion.

I'm not sure what you're even trying to say here. There doesn't seem to be a coherent point being advanced. The damage cap that BP is vulnerable to is $75 million, but they are liable for other civil penalties under US law. BP is spending $7 million a day. And they've given out other untold millions to reimburse states and affected businesses. They blew through the $75 million figure long ago. Figures given state that what BP has spent just so far (and it's far from over) been about $1.5 BILLION. I feel like someone's been filling your ears with nonsense about how they're getting off light and not having to pay anything because of this. Or maybe you just want to believe that so you can rant about the boogeyman or something?


I guess you never heard of Enron? All those shareholders were wiped out by fraud. Is this not another case of fraud?

No, this isn't a case of fraud, simply put.


Yeah your OK, with how their handling it I guess. Would you think that same way if that boat you have was moored in Mississippi, Florida or Louisiana?

Well I would be upset if I had a boat moored in MIssissippi, sure. But that doesn't have anything to do with it. Either they're doing what they can as best they can, or they aren't. How I feel about my boat doesn't change that.


Be honest here people, they could have used explosives to seal the well. They didn't so they could keep making money from this well, when and if they can contain the spill, fix the well and keep on like it never happened.

Where are you people getting this stuff? No they couldn't. Or they would have. This is costing them far more to let it keep leaking than they would make from redrilling it and pulling oil from it. They're trying to permanently kill the well and have already said that the prospect of using this well is over.


As for criminal charges, the FBI is down there investigating, hopefully they find something.

All that's going to accomplish is give BP a motive to cover this up and shirk their responsibility. That's foolish.


When something as bad as this happens, the fact that some are not outraged, amazes me. Everyone keeps saying it'll be OK, BP will handle it, how? There is no accountability, everyone in government, keeps on keeping on, mean while those folks in the gulf will not be the same EVER!!

Uh... lol. Seriously it's just getting funny.

BP's cost of this is approaching two BILLION DOLLARS. And that's before they get hit with the fines.

Yes, everyone. It sucks that this happened. It sucks a lot. And BP is going to be paying out the ass for a long time to come. Be outraged all you want, but hopefully cooler heads will prevail to see this thing through, fix it, and prevent it from happening again, instead of seeing red and making things worse because you can't control your knee-jerk reactions.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 215
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 11:34:38 AM
"BP's cost of this is approaching two BILLION DOLLARS."

Well if the numbers are right(and I'm fairly sure they are based on analysts numbers) they earn almost 100 million a day. Since tomorrow marks the 40th day of the spill, by my count they earned 4 BILLION DOLLARS in that time!!

So I don't think anyone has to hold a telethon for them or pass the hat!

Further whether you realize this or not, bankruptcy is available to them, just like Johns-Manville after the asbesto's problems. I'm fairly sure the board has considered their options and put a number in their heads, when it hits that, they'll bail.

Corporations act ONLY in their own self interest. They are not people, although we treat them that way under the law. It is all about the money for them, so it is the head of those corporations that are supposed to act with conscience, but they excuse themselves with a "I'm just doing my job".
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 217
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 12:31:04 PM

Seriously. BP knows how much is coming from that well. Their engineers design the wells and choose the drill string based off of this.

I think it's safe to say that the well is not operating as designed.


They aren't trying to fuse dissimilar metals here--just some carbon steel.

And concrete. Check into this stuff. There's a casing around the pipe. This isn't as simple as pinching off the pipe that feeds your garden hose. Explosive welding wouldn't work or it would've been done already. Unless they can somehow jam a pipe into it that can withstand the pressure of the well and then collapse it with explosive welding, this is a fruitless idea.


Really? I'm not advocating 'stealing' BP assets, but would you agree that BP getting slammed would cause an industry wide change. It won't put the others out of business--if anything, the others would like to see BP fail...less competition, but it will wake them up. Doubtful that it would even affect fuel prices at all to build in an additional safety measure. Probably wouldn't have to be much either...an additional valve?

Right. I was having trouble connecting what you were saying with what I had responded with. BP might serve as a lesson to others (I'd argue it probably already has), but knocking out BP would cripple the response effort to the spill right now. It wouldn't help things.


Probably wouldn't have to be much either...an additional valve?

Interestingly, the valve that should've been in place to cut the damn thing off wasn't used for whatever reason. This was, as has been mentioned, just an exploratory well. I'm not completely familiar on the details, but this was quite preventable, which is shameful. If this had happened at a different well of BP's it would've been cut off.
 brawnydog
Joined: 5/12/2006
Msg: 219
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 1:30:03 PM

Seriously. BP knows how much is coming from that well.

They have the closest guess and still don't have a clue.
And you can bet they're going towards the lesser side of the guess.
Either that or it's leaking more than it was to start with.
I can understand it leaking more on diff days.. being mother earth and all.
More misdirection. How come noone has suggested a big tampon with a 5000
foot string? I'd suggest splurging for Pearl so you don't pyss her off more.

Let's not forget about the currents too.
Try aiming that pipe without calling the next platform Viagra.
I told mother nature bp'd have no clue if she had it waxed.
She said something about lil underwater robots and lost track.
My suggestion? you know you wanna ask..
Why not just put some hair back around it? yanno?

The only thing good that's gonna come out of this is absolutely nothing.
From any view point. I really think we're passed the "who-done-it?"
at this point. Everyone except for you and me.
I'm no tree hugger and I really hate lawyers..
so, once again.. an unbiased statement.

Noone is going to get criminal charges for those folks who unfortunately
got killed. It's a high risk job in a high risk field and the earth belched
up a lil gas. That's in no way intended to belittle those folks deaths.
I just can't see criminal charges being put towards anyone in this situation
over that. The families will have their day in civil court and I think they'll
all get huge settlements. For whatever that's worth. But, I doubt very much that
there is any criminal link unless someone set off a bomb.
When you have enough money, you have attourneys who make law on your
team. Well, that might be a tad biased.

And now we've gotten down to debating hookers and the oil spill crisis.
I'm all for more hookers on oil rigs. At least a couple really really good ones.
Back in the day I think they called 'em crew sluts.
I think Zappa said that, but..

It's a media clusterfuvck minus the media.
Noone knows what's going on down there.
And noone wants to be labeled with libel.
Not a single source is credible.

And you can take that straight to the moon if you really like.
Gravity states that we'll still be able to fish for pike.
They're basically above the mason dixon line.
Water flows downhill so they won't be oxygen deprived.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 220
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 2:26:25 PM
OOOPs!! Came back to correct some figures and ask a few questions!

First off it's day "50" not 40, so poor little BP has made 5 BILLION since it started.

Next I have to wonder aloud out of that almost 2 billion they spent on the cleanup. Does that count the $50 million on ads their running to improve their shitty image after the spill? Or the money they spent on google and bing getting any related search for "oil spill" or similar things sends the searcher to their "chosen" sites.

It was even stated today that BP has the worst record of ANY large oil company. Included in this is an oil spill from a BP controlled pipeline in 04. Harassment of employees that wanted more safety standards(awww that would hurt profits). What they do in other countries, is ludicrous as well, and has either been illegal or pure stupidity.(I doubt the latter) They routinely use substandard safety features on their rigs.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 221
view profile
History
The BP oil spill in the Mexican Gulf ...
Posted: 6/8/2010 3:15:57 PM

Next I have to wonder aloud out of that almost 2 billion they spent on the cleanup. Does that count the $50 million on ads their running to improve their shitty image after the spill? Or the money they spent on google and bing getting any related search for "oil spill" or similar things sends the searcher to their "chosen" sites.

No, it also doesn't include fines, the 250 million they pledged to clean up a related Louisiana problem, or the recurring costs that will continue into perpetuity cleaning up shorelines, or the reimbursements the federal government is demanding of BP for state and federal expenses.


The ROV couldn't shut the valve--failed in the open position. Unless the issue lies with ROVs, I think the probability of two valves in series both failing is unlikely....but then again--alot of other components shouldn't have failed either. One, sure...two, doubtful...everything----puzzling.

Interesting. I had read that a certain valve wasn't installed on this line that would've been able to kill the flow when the rig collapsed and the pipe broke off.
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