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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" set for May 20th      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 26
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Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20thPage 2 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I couldn't be any more in favour of this. Anybody who would get so tweaked out of shape over a cartoon to the point where they would KILL someone absolutely deserves to have their noses rubbed squarely in it if for no other reason than some kind of "desensitivity" training. This event has nothing to do with offending Islam or any other religion. At all. As if the Comedy Network would give a f'ck about anything like that. What it does do is offend every last nutter who thinks God is telling him/her to kill cartoonists. Bravo.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 27
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 7:09:28 PM

You seem to think that it is the "offended" who are the innocent party here.

Really...?!? I'm NOT so sure about that... Seems to me I HAVE noted that it is "the offended" who are putting pressure on the publishers/stations, many times... I think I may have even made several references to threats like "You **stard, I'll kill you"... And that translates into "innocent party" in WHAT way...?

It still comes down to the same thing... It is the publisher's/station's decision to publish/air or not... NOT the offended... It is the publisher's/station's decision as to how to respond... Anonymous threats over published/aired material are not new, some are even carried out... I can think of a number of incidents where there was heavy pressure including threats of violence, some of which were actually carried out, over issues which offended Christians and Jews... Some persevered and carried on, others caved... Because it IS, and always is, their decision...

So, now tell me how making a point of being deliberately and obviously offensive, en masse simply to rub their noses in it, is likely to do ONE thing to stop the offended from pressuring the publishers/station or making threats...?

The publishers are the ones you need to be talking to and protesting... They are the ones who made the decision to persevere or cave... Just like in the controversies which offended Christians or Jews...

Nope, this is not a "Blow for Freedom of Speech"... this is "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?"
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 28
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 7:41:15 PM


Wouldn't the effective protest be to boycott the publishers and stations that actually make the decision to "give in" to the demands of the offended...? After all, THEY are the ones who ACTUALLY decide if it gets printed/aired, not the offended...


Sure , and then , assuming the protesters won , we'd be right back to where we are right now anyway.

Ummm... No.... If THESE protesters won then none of these questions...

Why should we have a problem with any television network that chooses to air programs that otherwise fall within the confines of the law ? The broadcasters aren't breaking any laws in the U.S. in this case so why should they have to bow down to insane hate-mongers anyway ? The inmates should not be allowed to run the asylum.

would be relevant... Because... THESE protesters would have convinced the broadcasters (or whatever) NOT to cave in... THESE protesters would have convinced the broadcasters (or whatever) to actually publish/air the controversial material...

Because Islamic fundamentalists (or fundamentalists of any religion for that matter) have been threatening us for a while now whenever they feel "offended". Well enough is enough.

Well then... wouldn't the logical and rational plan be to convince the broadcasters (or whatever) to NOT cave in... rather than just trying to stick our tongues out at the offended...?

Won't offending them further just make them keep being offended and keep demanding and threatening...? If the target of the protests is the offended, and not the ones who cave in, then won't we still be right where we are...?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 29
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Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 8:39:27 PM
There is a perfectly logical and biological explanation for why dumbshits thrive on, and need other dumbshits to keep the cycle going. It does not mean that the thinking world needs to buy into it or fall down to that level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning_kruger_effect
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 30
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History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 9:54:40 PM
Seems like you're calling people stupid a lot lately earthpuppy. What's with that? Anyway, how come this isn't a slippery slope thing? Like AZ immigration enforcement is just the beginning of a slippery slope that will no doubt turn everyone in the state into Nazi's? So why wouldn't this just be the first step down a slippery slope to complete and total censorship. For example, tonight's episode of South Park makes fun of Peruvian flute bands. So if this is deeply offensive to Peruvians, flute fluent or not, Cusco could just phone in a death threat and the episode would be trashed. No need for celebrities to sue Parker and Stone anymore, just go the death threat route and you'll be spared the horrible offense of a cartoon mocking your ancestral zeitgeist.
 Abby156
Joined: 4/1/2010
Msg: 31
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Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 10:03:51 PM
I am not planning on insulting islam or any other religion. I realize in the world there are skeptics of anything spiritual. Islam needs to grow a thicker skin and enter the 21st century.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 32
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 10:11:29 PM

Wouldn't the effective protest be to boycott the publishers and stations that actually make the decision to "give in" to the demands of the offended...?

Yup, to do otherwise is to reward cowardice under the guise of making a statement. Propaganda with a thin veil of hate.

This is really no different from those who oppose the illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel who are painted as being "anti-Semitic".

To the OP, what do you think of the barring of entry of James Galloway to Canada by the Canadian government (not a TV network) on the coercion of the Canadian branch of the JDF?

It would have been nice to see a "day of protest" for that one.

This is really no different from those who are afraid to fight the growing tide of fundamentalists in the US who continue to escalate the co-opting of the US Constitution (who's kidding who, ...that horse left the barn a while ago)?

Wow, ...the fundamentalist media and lobby are blatant, ....the cowards are the law makers and legislaters here (not a TV network).

A day of protest would be nice for this one too.

How about the Harper administration of tying aid to abortion (in complete denial of the Supreme Court/Charter view of this as being a right to self determination), ...this could use a "day of protest.


Really, why reward a TV network for cowardice?

Just sayin'?


In response to an Islamic terrorist group....

You ignore the act of cowardice of a TV network in order to offend an entire faith for the actions of such a tiny fraction of its followers, or do you actually think that the 1 billion+ Muslims were behind this?
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 33
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/4/2010 11:09:10 PM


I'm sorry , is that "Patrot Act " different from the one Mr. Obama just renewed ?

What are you implying, ....it's better or worse?

 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 34
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 9:35:17 AM
Seemed a bit adolescent and gratuitously offensive , IMO. I saw the original Facebook group (I believe it was pulled down after complaints by Muslim FB'ers --- although seems to be a much smaller new one forming again with a slightly changed name). I thought that the general tone or 'quality' of the wall posts on that original group was pretty poor in all honesty. If I were Muslim I'd ignore them and let them make a$$es of themselves . What does someone like this want more than anything? IMO, attention, and reaction.

Reaction , preferably aggressive (from Muslims), so that they can turn around and say, See?? This is how they are!!! Like when the Klan marches through a town (though I'm not necessarily equating the two); the worst thing you can really do to them is just ignore them (all 10 of them that show up). The best thing you can do , from their point of view, is show up en masse and rant and rave against them and even better get violent with them.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 35
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History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 10:01:58 AM
I am with the Draw mohammed concept, Although I have no intention of doing so I don't see this as a nah nah day.Because of a cartoon south park creators get death threats from a fringe radical muslim group?And I have to add as an agnostic and a moderate I remember the left screaming about the Chris Ofili's work titled "The Holy Virgin Mary;" free speech it is this work -- a depiction of a black Madonna adorned with elephant dung and sexually-explicit photos -- that was deemed by New York's Mayor Rudolph Giuliani "anti-Catholic." And of course the right screaming about it.So I find it interesting to compare the two.Both are free speech.Because of your politics or whatever ideology it is a two way street.If you tend to lean to the left it is rather disingenuous to"worry" about offending Muslims and not those of any other faith and if you lean to the right it is equally disingenuous to scream about the mentioned Chris Ofili's work In my opinion.Anyone threatening to kill someone over a potrait drawing etc imho is a bunch of nutcases.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 36
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 6:03:05 PM
I think the message I received in my mailbox from a PoF member says it well.


Have some people here forgotten what happened to a certain group of Danish cartoonists who drew images of Mohammed? That was years ago and some of those cartoonists are still in hiding due to the threats on their lives.

Do some people here actually think that the people issuing death threats are the victims?

The “Everybody Draw Mohammed” day is ultimately a protest against bullying. The artist proposing it implied that if enough people participated, the bullies would be forced to threaten so many targets that their bullying would be less effective.

I think it’s a wonderful idea. Nothing derails a bully like ridicule.


The analogy is a good one; the group uttering the threats ARE bullies. And anyone who's had encounters with bullies at high school or elsewhere knows that if the bully's threats getthe response th ebully wants, the bully will keep doing the same thing, or will escalate the bullying. The station, by knuckling under to the threat has merely taught the morons that issued the threat that they can get what they want by such actions.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 37
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Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 6:31:03 PM
As the global Bully, the US draws all sorts of attention and hatred towards it's policies, puppets, manipulations, armament of people against people, and arbitrary, capricious, and inconsistent support of other bullies till such time as we replace them with other bullies.

This bully against bully action and reaction has been going on for nearly two thousand years in the middle east. As one bully dominates, the other reacts and become the dominant bully. It would seem that both sides could eventually grow out of their teen-age reactions to one another and stop the cycle. Alas, the more mature the US became as a nation, we hit the demographic shift of white power in the world hitting the fan and non-fans and resorted to bullying as our retort and last resort.

Blatantly pissing people off out of ego gamesmanship is immature, ain't working and only serving to keep the cycle going. We were supposed to have evolved, but some folks hate the concept of evolution. Our whackos are feeding off the whackos of others and ensuring whacko sustainability while the world burns. Friggin dumb. Sorry if the dumb are offended. It get's tiring to tip-toe around ignorance. Chalk it up to another birthday.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 38
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 6:54:05 PM

Won't offending them further just make them keep being offended and keep demanding and threatening...?


What do you suggest? Meekly acquiescing to whatever the fundamentalist ( Muslim, Christian or whoever) demand, because the current status quo "offends" them?

Now that they've learned that threats can get them what they want, what's next I wonder? Demanding women not go out in public unless wearing a hijab, and not alone but only with their husband or a male member of their family?

Here in Canada a couple years ago, a fundamentalist Muslim group tried to get one of the provinces ( Ontario, I believe it was) to pass legislation so that sharia ( aka Islamic law) could be used by Muslims when deciding civil ( not criminal) matters involving Muslims. This can have serious consequences in some areas, particularly women's rights & divorce. Fortunately, after studying the issue, the idea was vetoed by the government... but why were they even considering creating a seperate justice system in the first place?

You would think people immigrating to a foreign country would know what the structure of the society they were moving to was, in terms of the form of government, justice system, and civil rights. If the country's systems ( in these cases, the USA and Canada) aren't their cup of tea, then they should either find a country that is, adapt to what should become their new home land or stay where they are.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 39
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 7:05:25 PM
Actually, the analogy is very flawed.

When one stands up to a schoolyard bully, it's about the bully. The issue here involves millions of innocent people whose beliefs you would be knowingly disrespecting.

Do whatever you want... but this isn't akin to standing up to a big kid on the playground.


The analogy is fine, only the degree is different.


a·nal·o·gy–noun,plural-gies.
1.a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2.similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
3.Biology. an analogous relationship.
4.Linguistics.
a.the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet.
b.a form resulting from such a process.
5.Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.


I direct you to definition item #1. Similarity between LIKE features of two things.

The schoolyard bully threatens to beat you up if you don't give him your lunch money; fearing a pummeling you hand over your lunch money. Having learned a threat can get him what he wants, the following day he threatens to beat you up unless you hand over your lunch money & your MP3 player.



The fundamentalist group threatens the South Park broadcasters because they feel the upcoming episode (which they haven't seen) is going to offend them, the broadcaster makes cuts to the episode because of the threats. Having learned a threat can get them what they want, the following day the fundamentalis group threatens >>>> fill in the blank <<<.

If they feel an episode which they haven't seen may offend them, then the simple solution is to NOT WATCH THE EPISODE. Or watch the episode & file a complaint with the govt. agency tht oversees the medium ( FCC ?) and let the govt. agency investigate to see if any broadcasting regulations were violated.

Unfortunately, as with any sort of fundamentalist movement, logic doesn't seem to be a membership requirement.



When one stands up to a schoolyard bully, it's about the bully. The issue here involves millions of innocent people whose beliefs you would be knowingly disrespecting


Should some people choose to draw Mohammed ( images of Mohammed are only looked on as blasphemous to some fundamentalist groups' interpretation of Islam) and some people may feel such images are disrespectful, I'd suggest those that would find the images disrepectful not look at them.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 40
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 7:54:41 PM
I don't know how many people will ultimately really care about a Facebook group (the newest incarnation of which has less than 100 people last I checked) drawing images and posting them there, but the South Park episode would have offended all Muslims, gratuitously, and it would have been aired all over the country.

IMO pulling it was the right thing to do for two reasons, at least: firstly it may have saved someone's life (really...... as we know there's a small minority within a minority which may consider acting out violently because of it); secondly it unnecessarily hurts the feelings of the millions of non-violent completely law-abiding day-to-day Muslims who've done nothing to deserve it. What's the point of mocking or defiling peoples' cherished religious beliefs or icons?? Ok, we "get" that the South Park guys are "cutting-edge" or irreverent or iconoclastic or whatever. But I just feel that at some point it becomes like beating a dead horse.

Similar in a sense to Bill Maher (whom I otherwise mostly enjoy) and his views on religion. He hates religion, fine, everyone already understands. The bad news for these people is that in another 500 or 1,000 yrs (assuming humankind makes it that far -- it should), millions or rather billions of people will still be remembering God in some way shape or form. Who will be remembering Bill Maher or Christopher Hitchens or the cartoonists from South Park??
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 41
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 7:57:12 PM

so I guess swastikas are fine
as long as Jews don't look at them

and hey, the KKK is cool-
as long as African -Americans ignore their racist taunts
maybe by covering their ears


You can't have freedom of speech unless it's there for all, not just people who say things that you don't find offensive. The KKK is racist but because the country has freedom of speech they have the right to spew their garbage; same applies tothe swastika & what it has come to symbolize.


and hey, let's just have every sort of hostility going on-
hate filled speeches, cross burnings, violence against women, against minorities....


Free speech doesn't include the right to commit violent acts, so your violence against women & minorities comment is fatuous.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 42
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:01:34 PM

so I guess swastikas are fine
as long as Jews don't look at them

and hey, the KKK is cool-
as long as African -Americans ignore their racist taunts
maybe by covering their ears

and I personally should not be bothered by misogynist
as long as I just ignore their rhetoric

and hey, let's just have every sort of hostility going on-
hate filled speeches, cross burnings, violence against women, against minorities....


Well, in a certain sense this is kind of the way things are here (US) , with the first amendment. Don't like it, don't look at it; but they have their right of nearly unlimited expression (limited only by actual believable threats of violence basically). This is how it differs here from Canada, or certain places in Europe where there are actually laws that curtail certain types of speech or certain internet sites or posts, and so on. IMO, I would not be bothered by laws like that; in a sense I think they're better because they do make for a more polite society where people are a bit constrained.

But yes with the first amendment in effect it's basically a free-for-all here (if you're in the US), and what you've said kind of applies.......people can wear swastikas in public, really, people can openly deny the holocaust and publish books about it, people can be in the Klan, or come out wearing Klan robes, men can say things that are as misogynist as they like really. "Freedom of speech".

Now, common courtesy, respect for others, human decency, etc, is another story.........but that is lost on some advocates of the most complete freedom of speech.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 43
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:07:52 PM

What's the point of mocking or defiling peoples' cherished religious beliefs or icons??


I haven't seen the episode yet so don't know how Mohammed was portrayed, but there's a difference between mocking/defiling and satire.


IMO pulling it was the right thing to do for two reasons, at least: firstly it may have saved someone's life (really...... as we know there's a small minority within a minority which may consider acting out violently because of it)


But if you use that logic, then all abortion clinics should be shut down because a small minority of people may kill or try to kill the abortion providers.

The show has satirized Christianity, Mormons, Scientology but no one from those groups felt the need to threaten anyone with violence. I doubt most members of those groups watch the show because they find it offensive; the fundamentalist Muslim thugs should,if they think & assume the show will offend them, just not view it.

Here are a couple good quotes to consider:

"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." -Charles Bradlaugh

"Freedom of speech means that you shall not do something to people either for the views they have, or the views they express, or the words they speak or write."
Hugo L. Black, U.S. Supreme Court Justice 1963

"A censor is a man who knows more than he thinks you ought to."
-- Granville Hicks

"Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there."
-- Clare Booth Luce, American playwright and diplomat
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 44
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:32:01 PM

What do you suggest?

I've already said what I would do... Go back and read it...

Because it certainly wasn't this:

Meekly acquiescing to whatever the fundamentalist ( Muslim, Christian or whoever) demand, because the current status quo "offends" them?

Again with the strawman... I don't know if you simply aren't reading it or if you are trying to deliberately misrepresent what I've said... Or, perhaps it's just trolling... Either way you've not responded tothe point at all...

Now that they've learned that threats can get them what they want, what's next I wonder? Demanding women not go out in public unless wearing a hijab, and not alone but only with their husband or a male member of their family?

And how does having a "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?" day going to change it...? You STILL haven't shown how offending the protesters will change the minds of the publishers/broadcasters...

I suspect that's because you can't since THE OFFENDED ARE NOT THE ONES who aren't publishing/airing it... If it was THEIR decision there wouldn't be any controversy because there wouldn't be anything to protest...

You seem to want a solution... Show how NOT changing the minds of the publishers/broadcasters and offending "the offended" even more will solve the problem...
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 45
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:49:59 PM

And how does having a "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?" day going to change it...? You STILL haven't shown how offending the protesters will change the minds of the publishers/broadcasters...


Who cares about changing the minds of the broadcasters? The draw Mohammed day isn't to show the broadcasters anything; it's meant to show those that uttered the threats that although they may have stopped the show from being shown ( or shown in it's entirety) their threats won't prevent Mohammed from being depicted ( and no one said the depictions have to be mocking or disrespectful). Now thanks to their threats, perhaps there will be more things occuring that may offend them. That's the risk they face when living in a country with free speech in place rather than a theocracy.

And what's wrong with offending protestors that use the threat of violence to get what they want? They should be mocked at every turn.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 46
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History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:53:59 PM
A few Saudi kids with money took down our sacred World Trade towers, and we violently reacted by killing, maiming, displacing and poisoning a few million innocent people. We kinda lost the moral high ground back then. Everything we have done since has proven to not only liquidate any sort of empathy in the world, but to re-enforce the reasons rich Saudi kids went bad and amplify by orders of magnitude, the resentment towards our empire. We showed our arses...and continue to do so with this latest episodes and these xenophobes...that, and of course our death panel drones.

We are clueless: the mostest, bestest, perfectest, victims of the world. They attack us because of our "freedoms"...bla bla bla... The vast majority of the worlds major religions' believers would prefer to live in peace and not need to muck up the lives of others. When we let our radical fringe react and drive the divide deeper with the other radical fringes, idiocracy wins, and we all lose.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 47
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 8:56:34 PM

Neville Chamberlain tried this too .
....
And again , this is exactly the rationale that Neville Chamberlain employed. He figured that the problem wasn't Hitler and his insane demands but those silly Czechs , Poles , and Austrians. He figured that as long as we gave the Nazis what they wanted , they'd just shut up and go away. That didn't work out so well as we should all know by now.


Well... This is a new twist on Godwin's Law... I'm not surprised that some connection to Hitler and the Nazis would come into it...

Now, please, tell me exactly HOW insisting they not give in to the demands of "the offended" (Like so many did when Christians and Jews who were offended by media tried the same thing... even through firebombing) is "giving them what they want"...? How is insisting that the material NOT be withheld "giving them what they want" when it is the OPPOSITE of what they want...?

Insisting that the publishers/broadcasters not cave into the demands for censorship, protesting and boycotting if they do... rather than going out of our way to further offend as many as possible... has always been the "right" way to stand up for "freedom of speech" when it is some elements Christians and Jews who are attempting to censor (at least it's the way it is usually been done)... Why is it not also the "right" way to stand up against these "offended"...? Why is it better to just go out of our way to offend as many muslims as possible just to thumb noses at the others...?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 48
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 9:14:18 PM

it was concerning christians and their beliefs being violated


Jesus is portrayed on South Park regularly, maybe I missed it but I haven't heard of any Christian fundamentalists threatening the broadcasters with violence.

Of course one of the tenets of Christianity is supposed to be forgiveness.

Islam is often quoted as being a "faith of peace" or a "faith of reason".

But these violent fundamentalist factions appear to view it as " Islam is a faith of peace... and if you offend us or we think you're going to offend us we'll kill you"
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 49
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/5/2010 9:21:12 PM

so my point was not that things should be censored- but that when one reacts to - or in this case escalates-
is this the right thing to do
and I say NO-
to ignore the threat would be a better direction to take


Yeah, the broadcaster should have ignored the threat.

But since the broadcasters didn't ignore the threat & censored the episode, what harm done, right? The fundamentalists got their way, now they're happy & we won't here from them again, right? And we aren't the broadcasters, so why should it be any of our concern that their freedom of speech was threatened, right?


First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Martin Niemoeller


All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
 sammylg
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 50
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/6/2010 7:31:58 AM
I always love to quote Bill Maher:

“When South Park got threatened last week by Islamists incensed at their depiction of Muhammad, it served — or should serve — as a reminder that our culture isn’t just different than one that makes death threats to cartoonists. It’s better.”

“The Western world needs to make it clear: Some things about our culture are not negotiable. And can’t change. And one of them is freedom of speech, Separation of church and state is another.”

He also did a great interview on Anderson Cooper 360 where he talks how we have lambasted Catholism but the Pope doesn't send out hit squads threatening to wipe out those who take the lords name in vain.
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