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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" set for May 20th      Home login  
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 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 174
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20thPage 9 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I see another of my posts has mysteriously "disappeared" from this censorship thread so I'm outta here.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 175
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 9:26:48 AM
Better check again. I found about *ten* pages labeled 'Draw Mohammed Day' - one with twelve thousand fans, and over eight thousand drawings. Far from taken down, the operator of the page has vowed to keep it open indefinitely (although taking a break for the weekend, due to overload...) and invites people to submit drawings all year long.

That somewhat restores MY faith in humanity - that people are willing to stand up to the bully-boy tactics of death-threats and riotous demonstrations, and say that we will freely speak our minds, no matter how much pressure you put on us to stop.

As one YouTuber put it - when the demonstrators stomp on and burn the flag of another nation, they're doing it to DELIBERATELY provoke and offend. Why is it permissible for them to do so, while simultaneously saying that it's NOT permissible for anyone to offend THEM?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 176
view profile
History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 9:49:36 AM
As I posted on the other SP/Islam thread..Haven't heard of a retaliatory Defecate on pictures of Jesus Day yet.

The responses thus far to the childish, Islamophobic, flamebait "draw Muhammad day" have been exemplary. On the positive side, the non-event did bring the xenophobes, racists and hatemongers out of their closets allowing us to know we have such vile fanaticism in our midst, and it provided a setting where mainstream Muslims could take the high road in response. Congrats to all who participated. I wonder about how measured the responses would be if an equally offensive campaign was launched against Christianity by Muslims...
http://www.ahmedrehab.com/2010/05/draw-muhammad-day-its-not-about-rights-its-about-whats-right/
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/HonourProphetMuhammad
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/05/muslim-responds-to-draw-muhammad-day.html
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=xprnw.20100519.DC08054&show_article=1
snip..
Molly Norris -- the creator of the cartoon showing many objects claiming to be a likeness of the prophet -- now says she never intended to launch "Draw Muhammad Day."

On her web site, she has since posted a statement that reads in part: "I did NOT 'declare' May 20 to be 'Everybody Draw Mohammed Day'...The cartoon-poster, with a fake 'group' behind it, went viral and was taken seriously...The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to the Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place...I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this 'day' be called off."

Norris even visited a mosque at the invitation of the local Muslim community.

The creator of a Facebook page dedicated to the day also repudiated the "inflammatory posts" it inspired. He said, "I am aghast that so many people are posting deeply offensive pictures of the Prophet...Y'all go ahead if that's your bag, but count me out."

Despite the cartoonist's and the Facebook page creator's seemingly sincere attempts to distance themselves from the fake event, Muslim-bashers and Islamophobes made sure the call to "draw Muhammad" went viral on the Internet. They are hoping to offend Muslims, who are generally sensitive to created images of the Prophet Muhammad or any prophet.

[The majority of Muslims believe visual representations of all prophets are inappropriate in that they distract from God's message and could lead to a kind of idol worship, something forbidden in Islam.]

So how should Muslims and other Americans react to this latest attempt by hate-mongers to exploit the precious right of free speech and turn May 20 into a celebration of degradation and xenophobia?

Before I answer that question, it must first be made clear that American Muslims value freedom of speech and have no desire to inhibit the creative instincts of cartoonists, comedians or anyone else.

The mainstream American Muslim community, including my own organization, has also strongly repudiated the few members of an extremist fringe group who appeared to threaten the creators of "South Park." That group, the origins and makeup of which has been questioned by many Muslims, has absolutely no credibility within the American Muslim community.

I, like many Muslims, was astonished to see media outlets broadcasting the views of a few marginal individuals, while ignoring the hundreds of mosques and Muslim institutions that have representatives who could have offered a mainstream perspective.

Next, one must examine how the Prophet Muhammad himself reacted to personal insults.

Islamic traditions include a number of instances in which the Prophet had the opportunity to retaliate against those who abused him, but refrained from doing so. He said, "You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness."

Even when the prophet was in a position of power, he chose the path of kindness and mercy. When he returned to Mecca after years of exile and personal attacks, he did not take revenge on the people who had reviled him and abused and tortured his followers, but instead offered a general amnesty.

In the Quran, Islam's revealed text, God states: "Invite (all) to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for your Lord knows best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance." (16:125)

Another verse tells the prophet to "show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant." (7:199)

This is the guidance Muslims should follow as they express concern about an insulting depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, or of any other prophet of God.

Instead of reacting negatively to the bigoted call to support "Draw Muhammad Day," American Muslims -- and Muslims worldwide -- should use that and every other day as an opportunity to reach out to people of other faiths and beliefs to build bridges of understanding and respect.

The best and most productive response to bigoted campaigns like "Draw Muhammad Day" is more communication, not less communication -- including not restricting the free flow of ideas with measures like banning Facebook.

Research has shown that anti-Islam prejudice goes down when people interact with ordinary Muslims and have greater knowledge of Islam.

Therefore, the best reaction to those who would mock the Prophet Muhammad (or the religious symbols of any faith) might be a mosque open house for the local interfaith community, a community service activity organized by Muslims and involving people of other faiths, or a newspaper commentary describing the life, legacy and personal character of the Prophet Muhammad, which is the opposite of the calumny some people fabricate about him. This should be of concern to all decent and objective people.

We will all benefit if each of us -- whether Muslim, Jew, Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu -- exhibits the common human decency required by our respective faiths.

-----
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 177
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 11:31:48 AM


The best and most productive response to bigoted campaigns like "Draw Muhammad Day" is more communication, not less communication -- including not restricting the free flow of ideas with measures like banning Facebook.


Or, sadly, like Pakistan banning YouTube for similar reasons?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/after-banning-facebook-pa_n_584137.html

Guess this theocratic state did not get the memo about tolerance and more communication in the face of bigotry.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 178
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 3:12:27 PM
I suppose Pakistan has their own type of hasbara overlords also, sadly no one has read the last sentence of Earthpuppys' post: "We will all benefit if each of us--whether Muslim, Jew, Christian, Buddhist or Hindu--exhibits the common decency required by our respective faiths."
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 179
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 3:29:51 PM

Guess this theocratic state did not get the memo about tolerance and more communication in the face of bigotry.

I doubt though, that anybody here is holding up Pakistan as an example of freedom of expression, however, the same can't be said of Viacom, who were not under any obligation to censure other than the perceived threat from a warning posted on a Blog based in NY, USA, ...which was basically an act of cowardice IMO, not a "suppression of freedom of speech".
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 180
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 4:37:42 PM
Heh...no. Cowardly, bottom feeding leeches would be the way most people should be describing Viacom... They tried twice and lost twice on attempted copyright vs free use to pull the "South Park vs. Islam" clip of internet free-thinker/science exponent Thunderf00t.

the original video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEvwfvRpqCA

part II - Viacom's revenge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWaZVMBw1E

Several of his other videos seem to take the position of defense of freedom of speech versus simple abuse or racism.

I don't believe he has effectively dealt with this rather obvious result...it's going to be a little bit bigger than collateral damage as when dealing with beliefs that are not exactly reasonable, and people that may or may not be reasonable on both sides...well I believe there was a gas on the fire analogy made much earlier...

Still I recommend viewing his series just to see his position/take on this issue. He is generally an articulate presenter even if on this issue he seems a little off his chump. His 30+ part series entitled "Why People Laugh At Creationists" was brilliant, easy to understand science as well as comedy gold"
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 181
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 5:18:50 PM

Still I recommend viewing his series just to see his position/take on this issue. He is generally an articulate presenter even if on this issue he seems a little off his chump. His 30+ part series entitled "Why People Laugh At Creationists" was brilliant, easy to understand science as well as comedy gold"

I have corresponded with TF for a few years, he's brilliant and a good guy, I recommend him too.

He doesn't pull punches when it comes to hypocrisy/deflection, ...ya' gotta' respect that.

I also agree with his stance on the "cowardice" of Viacom (thanks for posting the link, I've been off youtube for about a year, ...I should get my channel active again).

I take "freedom of expression" seriously, which is why I abhor the deflection of the "blame" so many fall into.

Like I said (many times), ...point the finger where it needs pointing, ...as opposed to the convenience that stereotype lends to confirmation bias.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 182
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 5:35:02 PM
Well I think the one point that he makes is especially valid.

There was no hue and cry raised at all when South Park depicted a full image of Muhammad on the last "Super Best Friends" episode, no death threats issued, no even any serious criticism and certainly no alluding to the death earned by Theo Van Gogh...

Now suddenly following the Danish and Swedish cartoonist incidents where over 100 people worldwide were killed and untold tens of thousands of dollars were done in property damage because of religious fanatic thuggery because certain extremists demand the world kowtow to their point of view, Parker and Stone are ignominiously silenced by their own broadcaster...

For what?

Paper Tiger threats made by ineffectual goons.

Goons who apparently didn't watch the first Super Best Friends episode... I wonder where their outrage was then? Strangely absent...
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 183
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 5:42:11 PM
Paper Tiger threats made by ineffectual goons.


And to add to the incredulity, ...no paper!

Just a comment on an American based blog (the blog has removed/"censored" said comment, ha ha!).

I wonder where their outrage was then? Strangely absent...

Someone at Viacom must have just discovered "blogs".

Shall we take all blog comments seriously? ....or just Muslim Blogs (the blogs of the other members of the Abrahamic club sandwich are pretty threatening too, see "Armageddon").


Honestly, the threat in North America to freedom of expression (hell! ...freedom period) from the sons and daughters of Abraham is not best exemplified by Muslims, ...not by a long shot.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 184
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/22/2010 9:09:00 PM
Grade school mentality...? Saying that bullies cannot get their way is hypocritical?

Personally, I think the ones with the grade-school mentality are the ones who say that they'll beat you up if you don't be quiet about something they don't like... instead of offering calm and rational reasons for not doing it.

Isn't "What you're saying makes me uncomfortable for (x) reason, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't do so in my presence" preferable to "I don't like what you're doing - stop it now or I'll kill you"...?

Reasoned debate gets listened to... threats get their bluffs called...
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 185
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/23/2010 11:36:36 PM
The Aftermath as recorded by Thuderf00t, YouTube Scientist/Free-thinker on Draw Muhammad Day:

They will hold their man-hood's cheap
Who were not here, On "Ev'ry Bodie Draw Mahmoud Day!" *cue chorus* exunt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuD3Ex5p3Aw&playnext_from=TL&videos=ER8klUSedb0
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 186
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/24/2010 6:05:25 AM

"Saying that bullies cannot get their way" doesn't need to be "poking back."


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. You see it as 'poking back' and 'grade school-ish'... *I* see it as further evidence that Newtons' Laws of Motion can apply to human interaction as well.

One thing I'd be curious to know - how much of the overall popularity of the 'Draw Mohammad Day' movement was a result of all the (rather vocal) protests against it? With all the 'protest', 'boycott', and 'Ban Facebook over' pages that appeared in its' wake, it seems to me that a LOT of people would have gone to that page... just to see what all the furor was about.

If there hadn't been such a loud backlash against it, would it have simply faded into nothing?
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 187
view profile
History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/24/2010 8:15:18 AM
The so-called event of the subject title appears to have been a fizzle for the most part. It did help solidify the Muslim community, probably alienated a few around the world who will be inspired to radicalize in response, and further alienated our US Muslim populace who are now more isolated and fearful of their fellow Americans. It also provided a community, where like minded western xenophobes could feel warm and fuzzy and act like their symbolic childish drawings were akin to the American Revolution or some other fantasy.

Most folks don't know that it was Alioune Niass, A Sengalese Muslim vendor who first spotted the s smoking SUV in Times Square and alerted police via another vendor's cellphone.
http://www.alternet.org/story/146974/the_courage_of_u.s._muslims/
 JustAGrlWthACat
Joined: 4/17/2010
Msg: 188
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/24/2010 7:15:22 PM
I like this idea.
 hard starboard
Joined: 6/21/2008
Msg: 189
view profile
History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/25/2010 2:50:12 PM
Astonishingly, I find myself in complete agreement with mungojoe in msg 2.

This isn't an immature response in order to offend others.

I looked at the facebook page and the photo’s therein and it sure fooled me.
Some ‘free speech’ activists obviously have too much time on their hands.

One should not throw a grenade into a full church to kill one enemy soldier.

Well put.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 190
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/31/2010 3:18:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan_internet_crackdown

By BABAR DOGAR, Associated Press Writer Babar Dogar, Associated Press Writer – Mon May 31, 11:07 am ET

LAHORE, Pakistan – Pakistan lifted a ban on Facebook on Monday after officials from the social networking site apologized for a page deemed offensive to Muslims and removed its contents, a top information technology official said.

The move came almost two weeks after Pakistan imposed the ban amid anger over a page that encouraged users to post images of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. Many Muslims regard depictions of the prophet, even favorable ones, as blasphemous.

"In response to our protest, Facebook has tendered their apology and informed us that all the sacrilegious material has been removed from the URL," said Najibullah Malik, secretary of Pakistan's information technology ministry, referring to the technical term for a Web page.

Facebook assured the Pakistani government that "nothing of this sort will happen in the future," Malik said.

Officials from the website could not immediately be reached for comment. They said earlier the contents of the "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" page did not violate Facebook's terms.

The page encouraged users to post images of the prophet to protest threats made by a radical Muslim group against the creators of the American TV series "South Park" for depicting Muhammad in a bear suit during an episode earlier this year.

Pakistan blocked Facebook on May 19 following a ruling by one of the country's highest courts. The Lahore High Court reversed its ruling Monday because of Facebook's response, paving the way for the government to restore access, Malik said.

The government will continue to block some Web pages that contain "sacrilegious material," but Malik declined to specify which ones.

The Facebook controversy sparked a handful of protests across Pakistan, many by student members of radical Islamic groups. Some of the protesters carried signs advocating holy war against the website for allowing the page.

Bangladesh also decided to block Facebook on Sunday but said it would restore access to the site if the offensive material was removed.

It is not the first time that images of the prophet have sparked anger. Pakistan and other Muslim countries saw large and sometimes violent protests in 2006 when a Danish newspaper published cartoons of Muhammad, and again in 2008 when they were reprinted. Later the same year, a suspected al-Qaida suicide bomber attacked the Danish Embassy in Islamabad, killing six people.

Anger over the Facebook controversy also prompted the Pakistani government to block access to YouTube briefly, saying there was growing sacrilegious content on the video sharing website. The government restored access to YouTube last week but said it would continue to block videos offensive to Muslims that are posted on the site.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 191
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/31/2010 8:17:50 PM

after officials from the social networking site apologized for a page deemed offensive to Muslims and removed its contents



^ ^ ^ does this mean Facebook will apologize & remove the contents of ANY page if someone complains that the page is offensive?
 JustAGrlWthACat
Joined: 4/17/2010
Msg: 192
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/31/2010 8:33:20 PM
That's funny. as more and more people get fed up and annoyed they're going to post more content that offends muslims and pakistan. i guess pakistan's going to have to ban everything now, seclude themselves.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 193
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 5/31/2010 8:34:45 PM
Msg238, I'm not sure, but they may for pages that appear to border on religious / racial insensitivity or intolerance (racial definitely, religious apparently is possible as well). For example, if some atheist puts a page on there which has as its sole purpose slandering Jesus Christ , and enough Christians complain, yes I would think (given this example they've now set with the Muslims) they may well pull it.

They used to pull the "F**k the Troops" page(s) also; not a religious topic, but obviously a source of great offense to someone who has a loved one serving for instance. They also have removed the pages of groups of Islamic militants before (Taliban actually had a "fan page" at one time).

So it's not unprecedented for them to remove pages if they get enough complaints. Even though all of those topics are technically covered (in the US, and many other free countries as well) as "free speech" (provided violence is not overtly threatened or encouraged).

I guess ultimately one has to start one's own page, a blog perhaps or something, in order to put forth views like that , or post cartoon pictures of Muhammad or offensive pictures of the Koran being defiled (as one of the "Everybody Draw Muhammad" pages had -- I saw it). It seems FB has decided not to allow it.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 194
view profile
History
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 6/1/2010 5:10:29 AM
FB is just like any other private establishment that serves the public. They have the right to refuse to serve anyone who does not comply to the simple rules of civility. The Bar owner can ban the guy who wants to fight someone anytime he has a couple of drinks. The restaurant owner can ban people who abuse the staff and other patrons. FB is not a democracy.

When a site is deemed to incite hatred or violence against others on the site, the owner retains the right to refuse service to racist bigots, xenophobes, and other ignoranuses.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 195
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 6/1/2010 7:10:02 AM

Monday after officials from the social networking site apologized for a page deemed offensive to Muslims and removed its contents, a top information technology official said.


Better check those facts again... as the page is still up and running.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 196
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 6/1/2010 7:18:25 AM
^^ I noticed that yesterday afternoon and actually wrote a message to them about it, asking if it was true or not that they were pulling it. The message I received back early this AM was that the page is "scheduled for" removal, upon their next "maintenance". So...I don't know. We will see.


<div class='quote'> While I guess this would be the way to go, it's a damned shame anyone would even consider doing this. It's craziness. I'm surprised it took Facebook so long to make this decision.

I agree. I think it's just not so much craziness as it is idle time, and/or maybe immaturity (after all who knows the ages of the people who post pics like that, really? could be some redneck high school student somewhere who thinks he's striking a blow for "freedom" by posting a pic of a Koran being defiled or something like that).

ETA: I think the main original "EDM Day" page HAS now been deleted. Some sad-sacks have started this one now, but the complaints will go on as before, and FB will likely continue to remove.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Everybody-Draw-Muhammad-Day-Again/111007562276828?ref=search&sid=EV0UVtaQX6Xdya2NmYg84Q.475746037..1
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 197
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 6/5/2010 12:09:50 PM
One thing that I'd be curious to find out about...

Assuming that FaceBook DOES remove the EDMD page, and any page that mirrors it - will they also remove all the 'Against', 'Protest', 'Remove', 'Ban', etc., pages that have sprung up in the wake of this movement? I've spent a little while perusing some of the protest pages, and have discovered a lot of people who say things that are equally offensive... if not moreso.

If they remove one, they should remove the others. That way, they won't be seen as playing favourites.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 198
Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th
Posted: 6/15/2010 9:32:54 AM
I see a bunch of posts here have been removed ( lost? ) again.
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