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 Smarts and Heart
Joined: 12/15/2009
Msg: 77
over 45 men and marriage???Page 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
^^^^^



This can be achieved without marriage.


Yes it can and I alluded to that fact. I did say it wasn't about "marriage" just about the degree of committment. There's always the feeling of holding back for an escape, when you can't feel comfortable enough to say, "Yes this is a person I trust with my emotional needs and I'd be willing to commit to".




Security for whom??


For both....and I'm referring to "emotional " security not financial.




Wrong. What has put a damper on marriage is the realization and socialization of what marriage really is namely a providership contract.


Sorry to inform you but most of us "missed out" on that contract and are too proud (or too stupid) to accept one! I'd love to see the statistics on how many women actually ever see that contract and how many get the short end of the stick with responsibilities and financial burden of children to raise on their own.
 Smarts and Heart
Joined: 12/15/2009
Msg: 78
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/13/2010 2:20:16 PM
^^^^^007clone.... There is no defense when one purposely makes statements out of stubborness or just plain ignorance.

Look up on the internet, the statistics on who benefits and who gets the short end of the stick , under divorce and it's effect on women, children and men. Your statements are unsupported.

As for "obsessions with marriage", it's been my experience that the men I've met have wanted a committment leading to marriage far quicker than I have. I'm sure as a woman, I'm not unique in that experience.
 whytwater
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 79
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/14/2010 8:16:58 AM
^^^^^ In search of the lost chord? Some of the Moody Blues best work. Good choice. lol
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 80
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/17/2010 5:09:48 PM

I also want the security and commitment that comes with marriage. He is perfectly happy seeing me only on the weekends, and I am not (and have not been happy for a while about our arrangement).


So you start "pestering" him for marriage, rather than ending it because you aren't happy? Did you really think that "marriage" would make it all ok when you weren't happy already?

Seriously, think about it from his point of view - you "pester" him until he proposes... what 'precendent' does that set for the future? You aren't happy with your car so you 'pester' him to help you buy a better one... you don't like him going out with his guy friends once a week so you 'pester' him to stop... is the idea that whenever you don't like something and are unhappy, the problem is him, and you're going to 'pester' him until he changes it? Is the problem really him if that's the case? Should he marry to live in that situation? Would you marry to live in that situation?
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 81
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/18/2010 9:06:55 PM

As a divorced young lady, you should know that marriage does not make for committment. Note; while you view marriage as security, he might view it as anything but. This holds particular true if a man is in his later years.
YES! I must absolutely agree with this; even though it does go against the general consensus of the thinking process of the "fairer sex". (Idealistic vs. Realistic)

Think about it???? IF you can't feel "secure" and "in a committed relationship" while living separately.....THEN...if you live together (in holy matrimony) IS it REALLY a sense of security in the RELATIONSHIP (and it's quality) OR (more realistically) is that they you feel more SECURE...because it's easier to keep tabs on the other person??? That's not the same as being in a "secure relationship"...it's merely feeling secure in YOUR own ability to double check everything they say about where they were and what they were doing!

I further agree that "being joined at the hip" is familiarity....but not necessarily "a commitment". News Flash.....married people...CHEAT....all the time....so the philosophy that "Marriage" is the guarantee of security and commitment is a fallacy.

This is an issue which was discussed ad nauseum in my last serious relationship. It was not "secure" enough...when I'd drive the 150 mile round trip every other night....so I moved in with him and made a 150 mile round trip back and forth to work EVERY DAY. Tenacious soul that I am, we tried this on 4 separate occasions over the period of our 8 yr relationship and EACH time (which lasted only 3 - 4 months each); he felt NO MORE SECURE by having me with him ever hour that I wasn't physically at work...or driving to and from work.

I'd have to say that my agreeing to add 3 hrs per day of driving time to my already 10-12 hr per day work shift....was a pretty definite indication of MY level of "commitment" to our relationship; but he insisted that "marriage" as the ONLY evidence he was willing to accept. LOL! I may be a slow learner, but once I've learned a lesson...I don't need to repeat it. NO, clearly, he NEVER felt "secure" NOT because of my lack of commitment, personal behavior or anything else....except that he was just INSECURE...in himself. NOTHING was ever going to change that...no piece of paper...not even if I'd quit my job and spent 24/7 with him...he'd have eventually come around to being insecure about....was I perhaps THINKING of not wanting to be committed! LOL! by the end of our relationship....I WANTED to be "committed".....to an ASSYLUM! LOL!

I think that the point that a lot of folks are really missing is that "security" is IN ONE SELF...no one else can give it to you; hence seeking it from someone else under the guise of "committed relationship" is an exercise in futility....not to mention....quite exhausting for the "partner" who IS "secure".
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 87
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:13:56 AM

I want to talk to the entity who doesn't need a man's money for a minute


Wow. You do know this is 2010 and not the 1950's don't you?
That's the problem with a lot of men on this site. When they discover
that women actually DON'T need them for their money, they have to
come up with something else they might need them for.

I was married for 29 years. I wouldn't mind be married again, but I don't
need to be married again. And if I did get married again, it sure as heck wouldn't
be for money.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 91
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/25/2010 8:18:51 AM
I don't think that men think they are needed for their money at all. I think that they are confused as to what is actually needed and wanted from them. There is only one other default...sex, from the viewpoint of a man. I know it's way more than that but how is that communicated?
As far as the site I don't think there is anything wrong with the site at all either. I think you get a better cross section of society from here as it is free and there is no investment so they are more direct...sometimes in a not so socially acceptable way.

So a guy goes out and in some cases all he hears is "I don't need a man". I know that's not what you wrote but that is the psychotic trend that is not only demeaning from the average man's viewpoint but also not true in any way conceivable. Not only did a destructive human derelict come up with that but the most amazing part is some actually believe it. How intellectually defunct.


I totally understand everyone being confused about what their roles are nowadays.
Used to be woman found a man, got married, kept the house, had kids, did all the
wifey things and let the man worry about everything else. When I was married, things
were more a 50/50 arrangement. I kept my job, worked the opposite shift of my husband so we each had time with the kids, we both did work around the house and we
both contributed to the household finances.

My kids are grown now. My ex has the house. I still have a job. My reasons for wanting
a man now are different in that I don't want anymore children, I don't need someone to
watch the kids for me while I work and since I live with a roommate, housework, daily
chores, yardwork, etc are really not an issue.

I just want someone to do things with, to talk to, to cook for, to hang out with. I don't
need anyone's money, house or car. The reality is, I don't need a man. I can do all that
with a friend or even my roommate. But, I also want someone to love and I don't want
to sleep alone the rest of my life. I want to be needed by someone and I want to feel
like I add to someone's happiness.

Unfortunately, so many people are broken and angry. Hanging onto their money like
I'm some thief in the night. Withholding affection in case I turn out to be the next bunny boiler, always looking for that "red flag" that signals I'm not what I seem to be.

Isn't just about everyone getting tired of being judged by someone else's mistakes in
past relationships? I know I am.

 *mae* flowers
Joined: 1/15/2006
Msg: 93
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/25/2010 12:33:10 PM

I want to be needed by someone and I want to feel
like I add to someone's happiness.



...My thoughts exactly. It's a good feeling just to know there is someone out there who cares.

...mae
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 95
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/30/2010 8:23:21 PM
Great post! and a very astute observation:

I don't think that men think they are needed for their money at all. I think that they are confused as to what is actually needed and wanted from them. There is only one other default...sex, from the viewpoint of a man. I know it's way more than that but how is that communicated?
As far as the site I don't think there is anything wrong with the site at all either. I think you get a better cross section of society from here as it is free and there is no investment so they are more direct...sometimes in a not so socially acceptable way.

So a guy goes out and in some cases all he hears is "I don't need a man". I know that's not what you wrote but that is the psychotic trend that is not only demeaning from the average man's viewpoint but also not true in any way conceivable. Not only did a destructive human derelict come up with that but the most amazing part is some actually believe it. How intellectually defunct.


Now imagine how us females feel when we go out...and all we hear is :

I want to talk to the entity who doesn't need a man's money for a minute.

It's a damned if we do, and damned if we don't scenario from that point. Meaning that...if we don't need a man for his money...then they (men) instantly label us as...not "needing" a man for anything; and not only that...but most of the time, even without displaying any sort of overt "independence"...are deemed "too independent" for a relationship.

Not sure what your observations have been from the male perspective, but as a female who hasn't "needed" a mans financial support since I graduated from High School and Dad stopped giving me a weekly allowance; my observations have been that the men who complain the most loudly about women being after THEIR money....are the same ones who are absurdly quick to judge a women who has her own funds (particularly if they exceed his).

So, I do have to agree with you that men really don't KNOW what they're needed for (by a woman) and the real shame of that IS, that it's their own doing. You guys (many of you) really have to stop thinking of YOURSELVES as nothing more than a checkbook and a sperm donor.

LOL! Good grief!!! What am I saying??? LOL! I'm still waiting for a guy who is secure enough to be just my "boy toy"...and has enough of his own money that he isn't trying to think of excuses to move in with me!
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 96
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/30/2010 9:42:14 PM

You guys (many of you) really have to stop thinking of YOURSELVES as nothing more than a checkbook and a sperm donor.

a lot of unfortunate truth here. so many of our walls are of our own making, our strategies designed to reinforce our unconscious beliefs rather than our conscious desires.
 AintNoDeal
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 97
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/30/2010 10:04:46 PM
The reality is, I don't need a man.

OK, you're not "needy".


I want to be needed by someone and I want to feel like I add to someone's happiness.

OK, you want a man that's "needy". In this scenario you can dispense your attention to him in controlled doses like a narcotic. You can choose when/where to add to his happiness and when/where to deny him his fix of happiness - all the while being indifferent to his plight because you don't "need" him.
I see...it's all about control. Gotcha.

A simple double-standard, you should find a guy this afternoon.


=====================================
So in your world, a man who says he doesn't "need" a woman, but wants a woman who "needs" him is an OK guy for women to date.

 whytwater
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 98
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 5:41:29 AM
men really don't KNOW what they're needed for (by a woman) and the real shame of that IS, that it's their own doing.


About the only generality about "men" that's accurate is that each has a dyck. So ^^^^ at best can only be read as the men who have entered one poster's life just don't understand her needs (and "needs" probably means desires). Humans are like snowflakes, each with his/her own preferences and paths ; no two are exactly the same- not even identical twins. If none of the men in any woman's world have met her "needs", it's probably more because she hasn't made her wish list known, than the inherent ineptitude of every male. Is every male a dullard, or has one woman failed to express her needs?
It's difficult for anyone,imo, for alot of reasons, to articulate exactly what one wants. Even if a person seems to know exactly what his/her precise wants are, the ingredients can change daily; but once you publish your wish list to the world, you're kinda committed to it. As the adage goes- be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it.


You guys (many of you) really have to stop thinking of YOURSELVES as nothing more than a checkbook and a sperm donor.


Most of the men out there are motivated to fit some woman's wish list. If any man's projected image seems limited to a moneyed sperm donor, it's probably because that seems to be what's most in demand. "Find a need and fill it", was the advice of one highly successful US entrepreneur.


a lot of unfortunate truth here. so many of our walls are of our own making, our strategies designed to reinforce our unconscious beliefs rather than our conscious desires.


I question the quantity and quality of "truth" in the passages quoted by that post, but I fully agree that we all make our own walls, and largely create our own limitations.
(This is weird- I mostly agree with what the original Christ said, less so with how his "teachings" are interpreted and applied, and now I'm agreeing with His gimpy second coming! lol)
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 100
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 9:49:40 AM
The reality is, I don't need a man.

OK, you're not "needy".




I want to be needed by someone and I want to feel like I add to someone's happiness.

OK, you want a man that's "needy". In this scenario you can dispense your attention to him in controlled doses like a narcotic. You can choose when/where to add to his happiness and when/where to deny him his fix of happiness - all the while being indifferent to his plight because you don't "need" him.
I see...it's all about control. Gotcha.

A simple double-standard, you should find a guy this afternoon.


=====================================
So in your world, a man who says he doesn't "need" a woman, but wants a woman who "needs" him is an OK guy for women to date.



Oh for pete's sake. My bad. I don't want a needy man. I merely said I wanted to
be "needed" ie I want to be IMPORTANT to someone. All that other bullshyte you
typed I have no idea what you're trying to say. Except perhaps you're so used to
seeing the worst in people you need to take apart a sincere post where I admit to
wanting to be important to someone and I want to add to their happiness.

Kudos.

Yeah...it's all about control.



jaysus. sometimes this quoting business is worse than a math problem
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 101
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 10:40:42 AM
WRT Msg 159, ThNewDeal
I also noted the lack of symmetry and reciprocity in the "I don't need" versus "I want to be needed". It's like saying "I am liberated" and "I want you to be enslaved".
IMHO, many of these attitudes stem from politically inspired demands for "equal rights" while denying that they are earned by the willing acceptance and capacity to deliver on "equal obligations", independent of gender.


Yeah, there was lack "symmetry" in how I chose to word my answer.
But please do read into whatever you want.
I also hope you noted the part where I mentioned (albeit not in so many words)
that part of my feelings of liberation stem from the fact that I know who killed
Kennedy, I've seen the loch ness monster, I'm in tune with the 9/11 conspiracies
and it's just a matter of time before I announce the cure for the common cold.

Oh yeah (she says in her silky come hither voice) enslave me please.



 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 104
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 4:25:39 PM
(This is weird- I mostly agree with what the original Christ said, less so with how his "teachings" are interpreted and applied, and now I'm agreeing with His gimpy second coming! lol)

smart man, that'll get you to heaven. that and 10 percent off the top, cash, now, please.

my take on gbb's post was that many men don't know how to appreciate what they bring to a relationship, or what makes for a healthy relationship, and so are unable to see their value beyond its most obvious, surface level - that of a provider.
 whytwater
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 105
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 5:28:14 PM
^^^^ Yeah, I get that. But, despite some lady posts which claim otherwise, I suspect that the same myopia afflicts the distaff side.
My own "vision" has fallen short of the mark, most of my life. My eye doctor told me recently she had good news, and bad news. The good was that my eyesight was improving, as I was becoming more far-sighted. The bad news was that that meant I was getting old. lol She's quite the smart-ass.
It took me, oh, half a century to learn how to read where a trail is headed, and how to choose a hiking partner. If I only knew then what I know now. Lol
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 107
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 8:44:43 PM
Browneyesboo, I do agree with your post and its all just right.. Then you go to the real world. Its a guys point of view so bear with me there. There is also a list of expectation a guys needs to have or pass first to get to the point before a woman would be willing to date him. So i do agree about what you say about what a woman is looking for but first you do need to pass the list... On the other side yes we guys do have our own lists as well of what we want and dont want in a woman. Then the big Q is it even worth the time and effort to keep looking to meet someone at our age??? I would like to see the pros and cons list for getting married or actualy being in a relationship.. Its not only for the men but for women as well.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 108
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 9:31:09 PM
BINGO!!!
my take on gbb's post was that many men don't know how to appreciate what they bring to a relationship, or what makes for a healthy relationship, and so are unable to see their value beyond its most obvious, surface level - that of a provider.
That's EXACTLY what I meant.

For instance, a couple of very specific things which really "impressed" me in my last few "near miss relationships" was...the guy called me...mid morning...to remind me that I had a dentist appointment early that afternoon. Another was; the guy reminded me before getting out of the car..that my purse strap had broken...so that I didn't dump everything if I had forgotten that minor detail.

Ya know, it's only 1/2 joking when I tell people, when they ask what is the "most important" characteristic I look for in a man....and I reply...."one who still has good night vision!!!" LOL! I DO think that we seriously need to sh1tcan the mentality that good ole Ward Cleaver was the ideal man. No, he may have been the ideal "provider" and authoritarian...but honestly...how truly "connected" was he? Well, we don't know because in the '50's and '60's...men were not supposed to be "connected" to the family....except through their checkbooks. But I can also tell you (I was there when they were broadcasting Live...none of this rerun on syndication crap) that at the same time that women were being stereotyped as Lucy Ricardos and Edith Bunkers, men were being portrayed as insensitive jerks with the emotional IQs of amoebae. NEITHER has ever been "reality".

We can argue the symantics of "need vs. want" until the cows come home; but my personal preference would be.....

OK, you want a man that's "needy". In this scenario you can dispense your attention to him in controlled doses like a narcotic. You can choose when/where to add to his happiness and when/where to deny him his fix of happiness - all the while being indifferent to his plight because you don't "need" him.
I see...it's all about control. Gotcha.
A simple double-standard, you should find a guy this afternoon.
=====================================
So in your world, a man who says he doesn't "need" a woman, but wants a woman who "needs" him is an OK guy for women to date.
DEFINITELY...NOT this guy! That is such a turn off! Not even to mention that....I'd feel pretty insecure in a relationship with a man who was with me out of "need". The problems with "needs" are...that they can be filled in a LOT of places...by a variety of "sources"! But a "WANT"....now, that's pretty specific! LOL! it may be fleeting also; but not much more-so than a "need". I know, the whole thing gets a bit foggy...what you "want" desperately can become a "need"; but at the same time...how often do we see people come to RESENT the fact that they "need" something from someone???

I certainly don't want to get into a debate about the statistics (and their trueness) but let's just look at the REASONS that 95% of "abused" women give for remaining with an "abusive spouse"! Almost without exception they cite the reason as; they "need" him. The TRUTH of the matter IS, they DON'T need him...they NEED the financial support that he offers. The same (in reverse) is true about why abused men stay with their abusive spouses...but to a significant degree LESS out of fear of the financial hardship, and MORE out of the sense of shame and blame they feel at having been "victimized".

Yup, you heard it here first....men are ashamed of admitting that they have been "victimized"...and women....wear it like a Badge of Honor. (speaking in general terms, of course)


About the only generality about "men" that's accurate is that each has a dyck. So ^^^^ at best can only be read as the men who have entered one poster's life just don't understand her needs (and "needs" probably means desires).

^^^^^^ I've read this comment several times and it still makes no sense to me.
Since it was a MALE who made the observation about "men" in
Post # 148
I don't think that men think they are needed for their money at all. I think that they are confused as to what is actually needed and wanted from them. There is only one other default...sex, from the viewpoint of a man. I know it's way more than that but how is that communicated?
and since this particular male does not know me...or has never had any sort of interaction with me; I guess I'm really missing the point of why you're trying to invalidate HIS observations which...were stated such a sincere and unobtrusive manner that I find it hard to see where the fault is.....other than perhaps the person who objects to his personal observations does so merely because a female agreed with him. He stated what is widely accepted as a Universal given...that men do NOT understand women....and...that women do NOT understand men.

I think most of us here are, or have been in the general frame of mind to GAIN SOME UNDERSTANDING....not simply dig in our heels and "choose sides" based solely on gender...but rather to see other perspectives through rational and intelligent debate.
 soflnighteagle
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 109
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 8/31/2010 10:17:41 PM
What I find funny is how many women are so worried about how I handle my money. I've seen so many profiles that mention something about a man being financially responsible. I don't care how you spend your money, so why do they care how I spend mine? Why must you be married to get "love, tenderness, knowing someone loves you and will be there next to you"? When you are willing to give your money to someone else then I'll believe that it doesn't matter to you. From what I've seen down here in Florida, money is one of the most important factors. I've had enough money taken from me by wives that within months of marriage couldn't work anymore. "Money doesn't matter" so not buying that again.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 111
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 9/1/2010 6:43:05 AM
I could say what I mean and mean what I say, but I don't want to
get banned.
Glad I don't live in a world where I have to disect every word to find
an ulterior motive. I just assume the best until I'm shown the worst.
(Which of course I've seen in this forum)

So anyways, as I was saying, I want to be important to someone who's
not needy and I want to add to someone's happiness who's already happy.

Disclaimer: All quotes from Boo are valid for 30 days following the date of posting. Boo accepts no liability for the content of this post, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. Any views or opinions presented in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the forum. Finally, the reader should check this post and any attachments for the presence of viruses. Boo accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this post.
 DrummingNut
Joined: 4/26/2010
Msg: 115
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 4/25/2011 4:45:21 AM
^^ I never went after any "stuff" from any man with whom a relationship ended.

Betting sarcastically are you? Well you lost.
SOME go after everything. SOME wish to split it in half. SOME leave with nothing much at all.
And.. SOME have lawyers, SOME merely use a lawyer to help them sign off, and SOME have no lawyer.

While I'm at it.. SOME men get really really bitter and turn it against ALL American women.
 Dave of Indiana
Joined: 3/18/2009
Msg: 117
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 4/26/2011 10:25:38 PM

The reality is, I don't need a man.




I want to be needed by someone and I want to feel
like I add to someone's happiness..


So if women do not need men why are they on a dating site? trying to difcferenciate between want and need gets real sticky. Need doesn't just mean a life and death condition without something. Marketing 101 teaches that a person has to have a need of some sort before they want something.
 MiamiDreams
Joined: 8/18/2005
Msg: 122
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 5/17/2011 5:16:52 PM
Marriage is in the HEART, not at the courthouse. It's that piece of paper that ruins everything, and never kept anyone together, never kept people from cheating.

Commitment to your other, is in the heart. So all this talk about "marriage" and why men dont want "marriage" and why women need to get "married"....

Geez - just have a relationship and see where it goes! And if you want to leave - there's the door. Why pay the lawyers?

 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 123
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 5/18/2011 9:02:25 PM

So what I have been disenchanted by is the attitude of many men my age. They don't want a woman with kids, they don't want a live-in relationship because they don't want the responsibility or they want to leave the door open for the next, better woman. Some of the posts here reinforced my understanding. Thankfully, some of the people on here understood what I was trying to say and validated me. Isn't that what these forums are all about anyway? We are trying to learn, grow, understand, and be validate or proved wrong depending on the question.

Looking forward to learning and growing.


I want to know how you changed the alternator in those photo's, and yet your hands stayed so damn clean. ... I know *I* can never manage that.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 125
view profile
History
over 45 men and marriage???
Posted: 5/19/2011 8:02:02 AM



So if women do not need men why are they on a dating site?


I don't need ice cream either....but sometimes I just feel like some, cause it makes me smile.
Men are like that....to me
I don't need to live in the ice cream shop...I know where it is.

BB


So here you are in the ice cream / man shop. What flavor would you like today?

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