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 whytwater
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 20
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTRPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

All a man has to do is sign his rights away to the child if he doesn't want to pay child support


Sorry, Kaylie, but I think you're wrong about that. In divorce cases, where children are involved, the judges are always primarily concerned with the best interests of the children, and the parents, especially the non-custodial parent, will definitely pay. There is also a strong legal presumption that any child born during wedlock, even if the husband and wife live separately, that any child born is the husband's. In all the cases I've seen, or read, it's almost impossible for a father, presumed or actual, to get out of contributing financially to the support of the children. DNA tests? DNA is still a new concept for the court system, and the judges seem to be skeptical, even in the face of clear DNA proof (the same hesitancy comes up in capital crime cases, where DNA analyses prove that the guy convicted did not do the crime- it's no slam dunk to set an innocent man free even if the DNA evidence is indisputable).
I have never heard of a father avoiding his legal obligation to pay for the support of his children just by offering to waive his parental rights, unless another person is willing to step in, adopt, and fulfill his financial obligations.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 22
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/2/2010 4:12:13 AM

All a man has to do is sign his rights away to the child if he doesn't want to pay child support. Simple enough esp if they are divorcing.

Funny you should mention this because I was recently curious about this topic and looked it up. Believe it or not, a judge could still force a man to pay child support even if he wants nothing to do with the kid. Doesn't seem fair to me that a woman can waive her legal and financial obligations to a child (through adoption) but a man can't necessarily do the same.

As for the original subject, I think anybody who doesn't want a pregnancy should do all they can on their part to protect against it, regardless of the length of the relationship and regardless of the other person's assurances they're on birth control.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 23
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/2/2010 4:26:36 AM
Sorry, Kaylie, but I think you're wrong about that. In divorce cases, where children are involved, the judges are always primarily concerned with the best interests of the children, and the parents, especially the non-custodial parent, will definitely pay. There is also a strong legal presumption that any child born during wedlock, even if the husband and wife live separately, that any child born is the husband's. In all the cases I've seen, or read, it's almost impossible for a father, presumed or actual, to get out of contributing financially to the support of the children. DNA tests? DNA is still a new concept for the court system, and the judges seem to be skeptical, even in the face of clear DNA proof (the same hesitancy comes up in capital crime cases, where DNA analysis prove that the guy convicted did not do the crime- it's no slam dunk to set an innocent man free even if the DNA evidence is indisputable).
I have never heard of a father avoiding his legal obligation to pay for the support of his children just by offering to waive his parental rights, unless another person is willing to step in, adopt, and fulfill his financial obligations.


thank you Counselor... actually this case was a while ago ..but I don't think times have changed that much ... an assumed father ..because he was married to the mother can give up all his rights except the right to pay child support ...Kaylie I said I heard of the case actually I heard the case ..it was during the time I was in law enforcement...I sat in on the case as bailiff.. so I heard the courtroom banter as well as the conversations behind the scene ... no It was not BS ..and I'm pretty sure it has not changed that much...also I have heard ..that as far as courts are involved that DNA is almost universally accepted when trying to prove someone is guilty ...or is the father ....not nearly so much so when trying to prove someone is innocent.../not the father ..justice is a concept ..not a science ...guilt or innocence is not an absolute it is a mater of what constitutes reasonable doubt in the mind of the judge or in some cases juries..and that varies as much as there are numbers of judges or juries

^^^^^ actually even for a woman signing parental rights away is not always that simple first you need someone willing to accept your responsibility and then you need the consent of a judge ...I had a second cousin ..a girl she got pregnant when she was 12 for some reason didn't name the father ... her parents raised the child but didn't adopt ...when my cousin got 17 she married another guy ...her parents sued her for child support and she had to pay ..even though she had been refused contact with the child ...they even wanted back child support from the time of the child's birth ...she only had to pay support back to the time she got married / became an adult via emancipation... now as with the first case this is an aged case ...I don't know if the same results would happen now ..my cousin did get out of paying the support though ...she died
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 24
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/2/2010 9:05:24 PM

For the record, if this is a question that OP has been curious about, well, if he still plans to get that vasectomy, then I guess he doesn't have much to worry about after all.


I posted a hypothetical situation. I never suggested that this had anything to do with me. Moreover, like I said before, there are guys that want children -eventually- but still want to be sexually active without it resulting in children.

In regard to the whole vasectomy thing. I've found that it's significantly harder for younger people (especially the childless) to get one because the doctors often think that they aren't mature enough to make such decisions. Interesting seeing how there are millions of women who start having children at a young age.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 25
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/4/2010 1:56:47 PM
Smart guy. Not ready to have kids. He's making sure it doesn't happen. However, I think it would have been best if he'd let her know first.

 whytwater
Joined: 8/7/2008
Msg: 26
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/4/2010 6:09:46 PM
If, without warning, my lover "reintroduced" condoms into a year+ ongoing relationship, I'd have a WTF reaction, too. I'm not a fan of those things, but they do have their uses, and if their use greases the skids, and absolves unspeakable issues, lol, cool.
 readthedamnprofile
Joined: 5/5/2010
Msg: 27
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/5/2010 7:42:52 AM
I think everyone has the right to protect themselves from both STD's and unwanted pregnancies. The man in question here obviously feels that his female partner might trap him with a pregnancy if he does not use contraceptives and that speaks more to trust issues in the relationship than it does to the use of condoms in LTR's. I think that if I could not trust my partner, or have them trust me there would be no relationship.

I also think that women who get pregnant on purpose through devious means with men that have expressly stated they do not want children should not be entitled to child support from that man and I think that if there is disparity between a couple on the issue of having children the law should allow for a document to be drawn up that states that any children conceived from sexual intercourse under those circumstances where a woman tricks or misleads a man into having unprotected sex for the purposes of reproduction when he believes his bases are covered is out of luck money wise. I think you would see a whole lot less of these so called "mistakes" happening if that were the reality.

Instead we live in a world where a woman can get pregnant on purpose with a man that does not want children and can then sue that man for support for the next eighteen or more years for a child he never wanted in the first place and this is true even if the child is conceived within the bounds of marriage where the child is not the offspring of the husband. In other words, your wife can have an affair, get pregnant from it and if you do not catch on to the fact before the child is born you are on the hook for supporting that child even if you later prove it is not yours. Does anyone else think that is absolutely ridiculous?

On the other hand, any man that takes a woman's word for the fact that she is using protection when she has stated openly she would like children or, wants a more involved relationship with the man than he is willing to offer is a fool. If you never want children, get a vascetomy and avoid bringing kids into this world you do not want the responsiblity for and if you want them but, just not now, make sure YOU take the necessary measures to make sure you do not get anyone pregnant.
 readthedamnprofile
Joined: 5/5/2010
Msg: 28
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/5/2010 7:49:45 AM
So, his choices are to take a chance on the woman getting pregnant on purpose or getting dumped by a woman that is mad because he wants to protect himself from having children? I agree that if you do not trust one another you should not be together but, you can hardly blame a man for doing what is in his best interests if he does not want to start a family. Frankly, if more men took this responsibility and made sure unwanted pregnancies did not happen instead of relying solely on women to take care of the contraception all the time we might have far less children being raised by single parents.

If someone told a woman that did not want children to go off the pill and trust her partner, that has publically stated he wants children by the way, and now wants to use the coitus interruptus method as their only source of birth control, that she is being a **** for insisting on her own method of contraception and that her man should dump her if she does not see it his way they would be strung up by the short hairs.
 beachwolfie
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 29
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/5/2010 7:24:34 PM
So very glad I have been snipped and announce it up front... no problems
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 30
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/6/2010 10:43:32 AM

So very glad I have been snipped and announce it up front


Now why would you go and do something like that? haha
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 31
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/6/2010 11:05:09 AM

Onenightengagement, remember that he has NOT been using condoms all along tho. If he is so hellbent on preventing pregnancy and doesn't trust the pill then he should have been using condoms the entire time!!! She's still on the pill, she hasn't gone off of it, but suddenly he is adding condoms to the mix b/c she brought up having children.


If I were a guy, I'd be concerned that if she was talking about having kids, she might "slip up" and "forget."

I wouldn't want to be with a partner I don't trust, either. Sounds like there needs to be some more conversation.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 32
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 9:35:45 AM

I also think that women who get pregnant on purpose through devious means with men that have expressly stated they do not want children should not be entitled to child support from that man and I think that if there is disparity between a couple on the issue of having children the law should allow for a document to be drawn up that states that any children conceived from sexual intercourse under those circumstances where a woman tricks or misleads a man into having unprotected sex for the purposes of reproduction when he believes his bases are covered is out of luck money wise. I think you would see a whole lot less of these so called "mistakes" happening if that were the reality.




should not be entitled to child support from that man


you see it is the opinion of everyone that a woman receives child support from a man ... both the receivers and the payers contend that the receivers are actually receivers... and that may well be the case ..but the court sees it different or states that any way ..the court looks at it as the child receiving the child support ...the custodial parent only administers the payment in conjunction with her half of the responsibility also .. now in reality this is almost never the case ...some women recieve so little that they could in no way raise a child on it plus her half ..and then some women make a career out of collecting child support
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 33
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 9:41:07 AM

Onenightengagement, remember that he has NOT been using condoms all along tho. If he is so hellbent on preventing pregnancy and doesn't trust the pill then he should have been using condoms the entire time!!! She's still on the pill, she hasn't gone off of it, but suddenly he is adding condoms to the mix b/c she brought up having children.



maybe her bringing up having children has made him do some research ..and now he realizes that no one form of birth control is 100% ..now he is faced reality and wants to double down on his protection

but i still say he dont trust her .. and maybe he knows her better than we do

just saying
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 34
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 9:51:36 AM

Onenightengagement, remember that he has NOT been using condoms all along tho. If he is so hellbent on preventing pregnancy and doesn't trust the pill then he should have been using condoms the entire time!!!

I've been in that situation twice. I used condoms, not because I didn't trust the pill, but because I didn't trust those two women to take them reliably. The pill is only reliable if a woman takes the pills as they are supposed to be taken. When I hear a comment like, ``I forgot to take my pill yesterday, but don't worry about it,'' I'm not going to rely on her for birth control.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 35
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 10:15:20 AM

When I hear a comment like, ``I forgot to take my pill yesterday, but don't worry about it,'' I'm not going to rely on her for birth control.


If you're even lucky enough for her to tell you about it.

It seems like people are leaning more toward that reintroducing the condoms being a good thing assuming that there is some degree of conversation involved in it. However, from reading other threads, if he were to have trusted her but she got pregnant (regardless of accident or on purpose), then he has to "live up to his responsibilities."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Would the dynamic be any different if they started with condoms, she got on the pill and offered for the discontinuing and he said "no?"
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 36
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 12:11:24 PM

Would the dynamic be any different if they started with condoms, she got on the pill and offered for the discontinuing and he said "no?"



again It would be deal ending if me and my woman were not on the same page concerning wanting to get pregnant ... If I could not trust her in the area of birth control ..I could not trust her at all ..no trust ==no relationship
 Sabrosura089
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 37
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 12:33:36 PM
OP: I would imagine that they would sit down and talk about her desire to have children, and come to a mutual agreement. You just don't decide on your own that you want to have a child, and disregard your partner's thoughts on the matter.

If he isn't in agreement with having children, then that is a responsible course of action. If she still won't budge on wanting kids; their relationship is not running parallel to one another. Not good!
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 38
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 9/7/2010 2:25:10 PM
I think talking about his decision to re-introduce condoms would be in order.

If he whipped em out in the heat of passion without discussing things first, then that passion would cool off rather quickly at least long enough to have that discussion.

I feel that if you can't talk about it, then you shouldn't be doing it.
 Archangel_07
Joined: 6/21/2010
Msg: 39
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 6/22/2011 4:42:10 PM
damn right put dem sheilds up
 foreverstacey
Joined: 11/28/2009
Msg: 40
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 6/22/2011 4:56:03 PM
I always say this... that if I were male, I would always use condoms, even if she was on BC. For BC to actually be effective, she has to be taking it at the same time everyday, everyday without any skipping.

Plus I cant tell you how many times people say "we were using the pill" ... its almost like the pill is like 10% effective.

I personally don't trust the BC on its own (and im the one taking it, and I know I take it everyday when I need to) ... my boyfriend already has a kid, and I don't want one anytime soon. We use both BC and condom everytime.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 41
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:03:07 AM
You just don't decide on your own that you want to have a child, and disregard your partner's thoughts on the matter.

As much as I would like this to be true, the phrase "my body, my choice" comes to mind.


damn right put dem shields up

Aye aye, Captain.



For BC to actually be effective, she has to be taking it at the same time everyday, everyday without any skipping.

So a man has to rely on his partner's integrity -and- her competence. I could just imagine the ensuing conversations if he stated that he found either of them questionable.

 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 42
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:13:32 AM
If you're even lucky enough for her to tell you about it.

It pays to be observant so that luck doesn't have too much to do with it. However, these days, 1 depo provera shot lasts 3 months, so it's a little easier to keep tabs on the birth control.

So a man has to rely on his partner's integrity -and- her competence. I could just imagine the ensuing conversations if he stated that he found either of them questionable.

That conversation beats becoming a dad unintentionally. Since a guy has no control after a woman becomes pregnant, he needs to insure that doesn't happen, regardless of what it takes to ensure that. Trust is nice, but the price of becoming a dad is too high to blidly trust someone.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 43
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Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 7/12/2011 1:09:23 PM

That conversation beats becoming a dad unintentionally.

Especially with all the "It takes 2," "deadbeat dad," and "live up to your responsibility" talk that always gets thrown around.


Trust is nice, but the price of becoming a dad is too high to blindly trust someone.

I know it's -probably- not what you "meant" to say, but that basically translates into, "being a man, if you don't [currently] want kids, then no woman is trustworthy in the bedroom." With what I hear on these forums coming from both sides, that seems to ring true.

Truth doesn't seem to hold as much weight as sensitivity these days.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 44
Reintroducing Condoms to a LTR
Posted: 7/12/2011 2:12:25 PM

I know it's -probably- not what you "meant" to say, but that basically translates into, "being a man, if you don't [currently] want kids, then no woman is trustworthy in the bedroom."

Close enough. I'm only willing to be as naive as I can afford to be. When it comes to becoming a dad, I can't afford to be all that naive. Since you're on the hook if you get someone pregnant, it's up to you to do whatever it takes to ensure that doesn't happen unless you want it to happen.
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