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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 251
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 11 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
The reason for getting legally married?
Because both the man and the woman WANT TO,and have the courage to face the risk of the marriage failing.
If they want to do a pre-nup, that's fine if they are in accord about it. There are things that a prenup will not protect against...if there are children there will be child custody and support matters that a prenup cannot vacate.
And if the pre-nup-or lack of one-is due to one persons demands, threats(to call off the wedding) or temper tantrums, both people should do themselves a HUGE favor-call off the wedding!

For as much b*tching that is going on here about broken agreements and pre- planned financial financial reamings-tons of people are still doing it. Some marry multiple times( are they hopeless optimists, or just slow learners? Who can say?)
One thing that isn't exactly a legal or religious reason-people marry because they want to make a declaration that will be a matter of public record-about their feelings about and their committment to each other.
Yes, it happens that marriages get broken and then the family/civil court system has to step in and preside over the division of assets and liabilities. If there are children, their best interests will be the governing principle of that division. Men who are all worked up about how women are favored in financial and child-custody rulings-should invest more effort to get physical custody...if they actually are prepared to not have much of a life beyond work and child-rearing for a few years. Unfortunately(and this applies to the woman who "broke her agreement" by not returning to work when she had 2 very small children to care for,as well)-you cannot hang children on a hook, put them in a cage or pen, or ignore the matter if they are sick-while you go out on a date( or go to work).
So if your life is ruled by your wallet and your d*ck,rather than your heart and your brain, and you are firmly convinced that marriage is a rigged deal for women to get a man's money-stay single! PLEASE! Either be celibate or be prepared to pay for sex.

As far as having children...that is an incredible responsibility and when you are a parent, it's not just all about you anymore. Recognition of the enormity of parenthood and choosing to give it a miss is not a crime or a wrong. If there is a strong difference of opinion about parenthood, perhaps the marriage should not occur.

But I think the reasons for getting legally married are about the same now as they always have been...to officially declare committment to one another, to provide a structure for raising children( "childless by choice" is actually a fairly recent development in the history of marriage) to be helpmates to one another. There's actually nothing wrong with the social and legal contract of marriage, in and of itself. It's when things go wrong and the social and legal dissolution of the contract is required that the trouble arises.
Yes, the "once burned" and the fearful can create all kinds of protections and contingency clauses and research all their options for legal leverage when the failure that they've already set themselves up for occurs-but that can tend to become limiting and unwieldy to the point that one becomes immobilized by their defenses.
Make no mistake, prudence, wisdom and being well-informed must be a part of the decision to marry. It's also perfectly OK to decide that marriage is not one's cup of tea. Sitting at a computer telling one-sided horror stories about a friend of a friend who was victimized by a scheming woman isn't going to remove the emotional, social and economic risks inherent in marriage FAILURE. It probably isn't going to change anyone's mind. A better use for the time might be to spend it promoting advocacy and changes where there are biased or unfair rules and processes- I don't deny that those exist. But an unfortunate fact of real life is that the key to getting through an adversarial proceeding is good representation.
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 252
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/1/2011 7:08:19 PM
Can't we all just get along? You know who is making the bucks off of this? The LAWYERS. They are sitting back, and laughing at us. And you know why? We keep them in business! I still say that a MARRIAGE LICENSE should COST $25,000.00. A DIVORCE should COST $38.00. We are all beating each other with a stick, or baseball bat. Whatever you choose that makes you happy.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 253
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/1/2011 8:25:00 PM

Can't we all just get along?


Oh geez, if you just wanna get along, move to PLEASANTVILLE.


For the single men, don’t marriage look like an awesome investment!!!


So now, some men think marriage should be an investment of the financial kind......I'll tell yah a little something guys....

-buy your own house on your own dime.
-keep you own house clean and in good repair, mow your own lawn and shovel the snow & ice in winter by yourself.
-if you need education to keep your skills current for the job market......don't expect a woman to support you financially or emotionally through that.
-do you own grocery, clothes and footwear shopping.
-organize your own house and vehicle repairs.
-cook your own meals and clean up your own kitchen every night.
-if you got any home upgrades to do.....handle it yourself.
-do your own laundry.
-manage your own money by yourselves and make sure YOUR bills are paid on time.
-make your own doctor appointments and don't expect a woman to hold your hand when your sick, and that includes making your own chicken soup.
-wipe your own nose and bottom, cause your mother got sick of doing it a long time ago.
-if your lonely, go visit your buddies at the local pub.
-if you want an heir to your thrown........forget it because women don't even want your DNA anymore.
-if you do manage to have a child who is willing to be heir to thrown, hope you can raise it to adulthood without being found guilty of child abuse and neglect.
-go confide in your buddies because women are sick of listening to your whiney crap.
-take care of your own mental and emotional needs...pay a therapist who only cares about the hourly rate he/she charges.
-take care of your own sexual needs, because I am sure you can fulfill all your own fantasies as well.
-plan and pay for your own funeral.....and don't expect a woman to be there.

Since the beginning of time, men have had a pretty good deal through the institution of marriage.............but they just couldn't stop whining long enough to see it. Yup, since the early 1950's women have realized that men are never gonna stop whining........so they left and continue to leave their husbands in pursuit of a happier life.

And the next time a woman offers you a bite of her apple in the "Garden of Eden" learn to fecking say, "NO". Because women are sick of taking the blame because you didn't know how to say "NO".
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 254
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/1/2011 9:23:50 PM

-buy your own house on your own dime.

Bought and sold 4 homes and one business....Now own my home free and clear on the gulf coast of FL. Neither of my wives paid on or got any of the equity in my homes or business.


-keep you own house clean and in good repair, mow your own lawn and shovel the snow & ice in winter by yourself.

Done that since I had my first one......No snow or ice much on the gulf coast!


-if you need education to keep your skills current for the job market......don't expect a woman to support you financially or emotionally through that.

No problem I went to school between my divorces.


-do you own grocery, clothes and footwear shopping.

Done my own shopping since I was in high school.


-organize your own house and vehicle repairs.

Done that while I was married. I am a ASE master tech so car repairs are a walk in the park!


-cook your own meals and clean up your own kitchen every night.

No problem I am a great cook. Every lady I have cooked for said they would never challenge me in the kitchen.


-if you got any home upgrades to do.....handle it yourself.

Remodeled my second home inside and out.


-do your own laundry.

Do that anyway.


-manage your own money by yourselves and make sure YOUR bills are paid on time.

I learned that lesson in my first marriage. Never depend on someone else to pay your bills.


-make your own doctor appointments and don't expect a woman to hold your hand when your sick, and that includes making your own chicken soup.

Not really a big deal don't get sick much and is it really that tough to go to the DR on your own?


-wipe your own nose and bottom, cause your mother got sick of doing it a long time ago.

Are you serious?


-if your lonely, go visit your buddies at the local pub.

Yep and don't have to worry about hearing the butt chewing either.


-if you want an heir to your thrown........forget it because women don't even want your DNA anymore.

No trouble we can get a surrogate to have the baby....Never heard of it but I'm sure it can be done cheaper than divorce.


-if you do manage to have a child who is willing to be heir to thrown, hope you can raise it to adulthood without being found guilty of child abuse and neglect.

Raised two didn't have any trouble with that.
Sad how you think if a man has custody they are going to be guilty of harming them.


-go confide in your buddies because women are sick of listening to your whiney crap.

No problem there either as I have plenty of friends to glean advice from male and female.


-take care of your own mental and emotional needs...pay a therapist who only cares about the hourly rate he/she charges.

No need for one got rid of my reason for stress in the last divorce!


-take care of your own sexual needs, because I am sure you can fulfill all your own fantasies as well.

No need for that either there are plenty of ladies out there that don't want the quagmire of marriage that do want sex.


-plan and pay for your own funeral.....and don't expect a woman to be there.

Already have that seen about even have the urn paid for! Why would I need a woman there?


And the next time a woman offers you a bite of her apple in the "Garden of Eden" learn to fecking say, "NO". Because women are sick of taking the blame because you didn't know how to say "NO".

I have already said the only way that would happen is with a pre nup I have long since taken care of having anymore kids so child support will not be a consideration.

Any other things you think a man needs a woman for? As I don't NEED a woman to do anything for me.

Would it be nice to find one to enjoy time together? Sure.....Am I going to put my assets at risk for it? NO WAY!
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 255
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/1/2011 9:52:17 PM
Any other things you think a man needs a woman for? As I don't NEED a woman to do anything for me.

Would it be nice to find one to enjoy time together? Sure.....Am I going to put my assets at risk for it? NO WAY!


YOU SIR are my HERO! A man who can do it on his own, and still find time for a relationship. I too am independent, and do all my own chores.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 256
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/1/2011 10:37:41 PM
YOU SIR are my HERO! A man who can do it on his own, and still find time for a relationship. I too am independent, and do all my own chores.

There are more and more of us out there, male and female, who are independent and do for ourselves. It seems to me the biggest complainers of either gender are the ones who lack the capability in either one or both areas - ability to be independent or to have fulfilling relationships of any kind or any duration. Particularly annoying are those contemptuous ones who have remained single and/or childless and profess to know what it's all about by "observation" or from what their angry and jaded friends have to say. It's like saying you know what something tastes like by watching someone else eat.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 257
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 1:11:25 AM

-buy your own house on your own dime.
-keep you own house clean and in good repair, mow your own lawn and shovel the snow & ice in winter by yourself.
-if you need education to keep your skills current for the job market......don't expect a woman to support you financially or emotionally through that.
-do you own grocery, clothes and footwear shopping.
-organize your own house and vehicle repairs.
-cook your own meals and clean up your own kitchen every night.
-if you got any home upgrades to do.....handle it yourself.
-do your own laundry.
-manage your own money by yourselves and make sure YOUR bills are paid on time.
-make your own doctor appointments and don't expect a woman to hold your hand when your sick, and that includes making your own chicken soup.
-wipe your own nose and bottom, cause your mother got sick of doing it a long time ago.
-if your lonely, go visit your buddies at the local pub.
-if you want an heir to your thrown........forget it because women don't even want your DNA anymore.
-if you do manage to have a child who is willing to be heir to thrown, hope you can raise it to adulthood without being found guilty of child abuse and neglect.
-go confide in your buddies because women are sick of listening to your whiney crap.
-take care of your own mental and emotional needs...pay a therapist who only cares about the hourly rate he/she charges.
-take care of your own sexual needs, because I am sure you can fulfill all your own fantasies as well.
-plan and pay for your own funeral.....and don't expect a woman to be there.

Since the beginning of time, men have had a pretty good deal through the institution of marriage.............but they just couldn't stop whining long enough to see it. Yup, since the early 1950's women have realized that men are never gonna stop whining........so they left and continue to leave their husbands in pursuit of a happier life.

And the next time a woman offers you a bite of her apple in the "Garden of Eden" learn to fecking say, "NO". Because women are sick of taking the blame because you didn't know how to say "NO".


The only real thing on that list that your average bachelor doesn't do himself is cook. And any guy that is competent enough to follow directions of a recipe that he found on the internet can conquer that task too. Maintaining a clean and functioning house/apartment really isn't that hard. Moreover, I've yet to see any woman in a LTR shovel snow, mow the lawn, do anything automotive or home repair related.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 258
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 1:22:14 AM
Sad how you think if a man has custody they are going to be guilty of harming them.



Child abuse fatalities are widely recognized as being under-counted; it is estimated that between 60-85% of child fatalities due to maltreatment are not recorded as such on death certificates. Younger children are at a much higher risk for being killed, as are African Americans. Girls and boys, however, are killed at similar rates. Caregivers, and specifically mothers, are more likely to be the perpetrators of a child abuse fatality, than anyone else, including strangers, relatives, and non-relative caregivers. Family situations which place children at risk include moving, unemployment, having non-family members living in the household. A number of policies and programs have been put into place to try to better understand and to prevent child abuse fatalities, including: safe haven laws, child fatality review teams, training for investigators, shaken baby syndrome prevention programs, and child abuse death laws which mandate harsher sentencing for taking the life of a child.

Douglas, E.M., 2005, Child maltreatment fatalities: What do we know, what have we learned, and where do we go from here?

According to the American Anthropological Association, more than 200 women kill their children in the United States each year.

40.5% of all child abuse is committed solely by biological mothers
17.7% of all child abuse is committed solely by biological fathers
19.3% of child abuse is committed by both the mother and the father
6.4% of child abuse is committed by the mother and some other individual
1.0% of child abuse is committed by the father and some other individual
11.9% is committed by someone other than the parents
3.1% is committed by an unknown or missing perpetrator.


http://mkg4583.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/mothers-abuse-children-3-times-more-than-dads-federal-hhs-statistics/

Methinks that -men- aren't the problem.


 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 259
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 4:41:08 AM

No trouble we can get a surrogate to have the baby....Never heard of it but I'm sure it can be done cheaper than divorce.


Cheaper than a divorce???..........what a hoser & cheap-skate.

It was reported that Michael Jackson's surrogate received 4.2 million lira, along with various other perks such as ranching land, of which she now resides on and breeds horses and dogs. I am not quite sure what Ricky Martin's surrogate was paid for twin boys...........of which he totally adores and yes, he is a gay man.............and a happy one at that.

So ladies, now you know the going rate for having your husband or boyfriends child. Up until this point, some to most men have not valued the children that you have beared for them, because you gave it away for free. Anything given to a man for free is not valued and all they care about IS THEIR WALLETS. They can NEVER, ever truly appreciate the value of something or someone.

Hmm, now I wonder what Michael Jackson paid his Nannies, Housekeepers, Private Tutors, Chef/Kitchen Staff, etc...............don't give these things away for free anymore ladies, not even the physical intimacy. And if he wants to refer to you as a whore or prostitute..............remember it's only a word that he uses to belittle you, so he can further manipulate you into giving it away for free.


I have already said the only way that would happen is with a pre nup I have long since taken care of having anymore kids so child support will not be a consideration.


I am sure there must be a lawyer on POF who could break and disect any pre nup that you and your lawyer choose to come up with.

Hide your wallets everyone...................use extreme caution, men are approaching and they are looking for anyone's wallet they can get their hands on.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 260
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 5:18:27 AM
The only real thing on that list that your average bachelor doesn't do himself is cook. And any guy that is competent enough to follow directions of a recipe that he found on the internet can conquer that task too. Maintaining a clean and functioning house/apartment really isn't that hard. Moreover, I've yet to see any woman in a LTR shovel snow, mow the lawn, do anything automotive or home repair related.


A rental apartment is relatively easy to take care of..............you just call the landlord.
If you own a condo apartment...............you don't have any outside work to do.
If you own land with a home on it..........there is lots of maintenance inside and out, especially if the house is older.

As far as shoveling snow in the winter in my hood..............one day I went outside in an evening gown and heels to shovel the walks and to see if I could attract a man. Wouldn't you know it........there was mostly women outdoors shoveling the walks and all the men were either at work or inside the house with their TV remotes tightly clutched in their hands. As far as automotive and home repair.............most men don't even do that kind of work anymore, they pay a professional to do it or they wait until their wife does it.

Oh, and I threw that evening gown & heels in the garbage dumpster, because there weren't any men in my hood, worth attracting!!

That statistics for child abuse in the U.S. are really sad. Thanks for the stats mrcs!
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 261
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 8:01:16 AM

It was reported that Michael Jackson's surrogate received 4.2 million lira, along with various other perks such as ranching land, of which she now resides on and breeds horses and dogs. I am not quite sure what Ricky Martin's surrogate was paid for twin boys...........of which he totally adores and yes, he is a gay man.............and a happy one at that.


As I said I haven't heard of one Michael Jackson and Ricky Martin are not someone I keep up with.

However lets look at the numbers you provided for Michael....4.2 million.

Now lets look at what it cost Tiger to divorce his wife 100 million pluse child support and two houses. Now I understand Tiger had two kids. That is 50 milion and one house per kid. I hate to even think of what his child support is.

As I said it would be cheaper to hire a surrogate.



I am sure there must be a lawyer on POF who could break and disect any pre nup that you and your lawyer choose to come up with.


I'll take that bet my attorney is also the Superior court judge where I lived in GA. It has to be resigned every year or divorce is automatic.

The main reason pre nups get tossed is they get old mine never does!


Hide your wallets everyone...................use extreme caution, men are approaching and they are looking for anyone's wallet they can get their hands on.


Not interested in anyone's money except my own which I intend to keep and spend the way I want not have it taken by someone I once loved and trusted.


40.5% of all child abuse is committed solely by biological mothers
17.7% of all child abuse is committed solely by biological fathers
19.3% of child abuse is committed by both the mother and the father
6.4% of child abuse is committed by the mother and some other individual
1.0% of child abuse is committed by the father and some other individual
11.9% is committed by someone other than the parents
3.1% is committed by an unknown or missing perpetrator.


Hummm so it looks as if the mothers are responable for almost 50% of the abuse while the fathers are responable for less that 20%.

Sad and what is sadder is the system used now ignores these facts and awardes custody most of the time to the mother w/o finding out what the best interest of the child is.

I got custody of my daughert because her mother left her with me for 3 months with no contact. Although she still recived child support durring this time. It wasn't untill she was served with the custody suit that she wanted to come get her.

My son's mother gave me custody so she could go smoke her dope and not have to worry about him.

So I have no problem beliving the stats.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 262
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 9:05:25 AM
Msg 291&2
sorry-have to make this observation.
Mesg 291-I believe is speaking to the larger picture-to men in general, and is simply a recap of what men have said to women ever since women became 1st class citizens-which did not happen overnight, btw!
Msg 292-responds with a man presuming that the previous message somehow or other is referring to him specifically.
Yes I know that it's sort of a tendency of human nature to react the most strongly when it's ones own ox getting gored-or in imminent danger of getting gored. But I see this a lot in these forums-someone taking a message of general commentary,observation or generic advice and responding as if the general message was about him or her specifically. Maybe it's just my perception, but it seems to me that these cases of someone responding to a general message with a response about himself specifically seem to occur more with men.
Yes, there are lots of women and men who have forged a life of independence-by choice or because it was their considered decision that it was the better option under the prevailing conditions of their own circumstance.
But there are lots of people who can't-or THINK they can't-build a satisfying solo adult life. And there are lots of people that could but don't WANT to. Add to that people who could and probably would but they have found someone that they want to keep in their life on an official basis. These are the people who choose to get legally married-even in the face of a statistics indicating that half of marriages officially FAIL.

For some to say that marriage and then divorce is an intentional career plan for women is about as insulting as saying that men only get married in order to get a divorce and an excuse to unleash his (personal) innate hatred of women.

I cannot say for sure, at this time in my life I do not have a lot of contact with a large number of people in divorce proceedings,so I can't report from anything but a tiny percentage of secondhand hearsay about trends in child custody and asset division.
But without some standardization of custody and division of assets, what you would have is divorcing couples and/or their representation, toting in huge ledgers,diaries, shoeboxes full of receipts, character-or character ASSASINATION!-witnesses, etc to prove who put in the most money and effort. It would be a sad thing indeed if busy working spouses and parents had to sit down at the end of each day and record earnings,efforts and expenditures in a ledger against the possibility of a future divorce and the fear of an "unfair" ruling in child custody and asset division.

Speaking as a woman,to the men who are quite certain that marriage and divorce are a popular career plan among women, would someone please explain to me why such men are even involved in the dating scene? Is it on the off chance that they can develop a relationship enough to have a satisfying revenge experience?
If it's just about sex, good Lord, there are women who will have sex with you and accept payment to go away afterward!
edit to add


have it taken by someone I once loved and trusted.

Here, I believe, is the true heart of the matter, not money and possessions lost, but the BETRAYAL and the loss of love and trust.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but even if a betraying spouse were stripped of all possessions and contact with the children and cast out beyond the pale, the healing of the pain and grief caused by a broken marriage is a process of time and the WILL to heal. Dating for revenge, or making the opposite gender the enemy, except for purposes of sexual release-maybe this represents the anger phase of grieving-but it sometimes seems like internet dating sites are overloaded with people STUCK in that phase.
Cindy O


 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 263
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 9:28:14 AM
^^^^ Sure makes a person wonder why there's such an attraction to the opposite sex when there's so much animosity, doesn't it? I believe, however, that one person in the posts referred to above is speaking about protecting themselves because they've made poor choices before when entering into marriage (doing it without fully knowing the individual it seems) and perhaps still doesn't trust their own picker, where the other person is simply full of bitterness and hate towards people in general but men in particular.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 264
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 9:55:45 AM

Shoot. We don’t need no fancy lawyers. I betcha your avid pof forumites could render that document unworthy in 20 thread pages or less. Let us take a crack at it.


Yes, yes..........I do enjoy a good challenge, and so do a few other POF forumites. Are there any Legal Geeks on POF that would be up for that challenge. Well, I gotta run....Mr. RoadRunner has set an "Acme Products" trap for Mr Wylie Coyote. Those guys have been feuding for years and they are really animated about everything they do.

 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 265
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 10:16:35 AM

It has to be resigned every year or divorce is automatic.

Automatic divorce?
Yeah, right.
Insofar as I know, any married person who is dissatisfied with their marriage can file for divorce by declaring that the marriage has irretrievably broken down. I do not see any court actually honoring a pre-nup that carried an implicit THREAT of divorce.
Pre-nups cannot over-ride things like child support or allow someone to be ejected from a marriage with nothing but the clothes on their back. People can CHOOSE that course of action if they want to get out of a marriage badly enough, sort of the equivalent of an animal chewing it's own leg off to escape a trap.
Regardless of what we forumites might find in perusing this marvel of modern literature, I doubt that it will ever be put to the test because no one will be willing to SIGN it.
Sorry, dude, I think your attorney is probably taking a perfectly legal advantage of your insecurity and anger, to collect payment for creating a document that is probably never going to be actually used. I don't think that anyone can realistically write a marriage related document with a built-in coercion clause, and expect it to hold up. I suspect your attorney KNOWS this, and has little fear of being chastised for writing a document that has only a nominal chance of ever coming under legal scrutiny.
I'd make a reference to "mighty expensive toilet paper", but I wouldn't want to be unduly inflammatory.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 266
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 10:29:53 AM

Msg 292-responds with a man presuming that the previous message somehow or other is referring to him specifically.


Actually I responded that way because I can only speak for myself. Are there other men out there that has had these experiences sure but I don't claim to speak for them as the other person seems to do.


For some to say that marriage and then divorce is an intentional career plan for women is about as insulting as saying that men only get married in order to get a divorce and an excuse to unleash his (personal) innate hatred of women.


I never said that. I said the laws favor the female in divorce court and that some do use them I have seen women serial marry and divorce to gain wealth.

That doesn't mean all do.


Speaking as a woman,to the men who are quite certain that marriage and divorce are a popular career plan among women, would someone please explain to me why such men are even involved in the dating scene?


Because contrary to popular belief most marriages survive. Which means there is a chance to find a lady that truly wants a good relationship/marriage.

The problem is finding one that is willing to put the word and dedication it takes to make the long haul.

I have always worked hard to do just that when committed to someone.


Here, I believe, is the true heart of the matter, not money and possessions lost, but the BETRAYAL and the loss of love and trust.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but even if a betraying spouse were stripped of all possessions and contact with the children and cast out beyond the pale, the healing of the pain and grief caused by a broken marriage is a process of time and the WILL to heal. Dating for revenge, or making the opposite gender the enemy, except for purposes of sexual release-maybe this represents the anger phase of grieving-but it sometimes seems like internet dating sites are overloaded with people STUCK in that phase.


That is where you are misinterpreting what I post. Anger is long since gone from me. I do advocate protecting ones assets from divorce.

How is that anger? Just because I am not willing to endanger my assets for a relationship?

The true anger I see here is ones that are mad I don't follow the "sheeple" in marriage w/o protection.
Why is it a problem that I advocate protection? I would not force anyone to sign a pre nup they would have to sign it of their own free will.

I just would not marry someone that wouldn't. That is my free will.

Chameleonf wrote.


^^^^ Sure makes a person wonder why there's such an attraction to the opposite sex when there's so much animosity, doesn't it? I believe, however, that one person in the posts referred to above is speaking about protecting themselves because they've made poor choices before when entering into marriage (doing it without fully knowing the individual it seems) and perhaps still doesn't trust their own picker, where the other person is simply full of bitterness and hate towards people in general but men in particular.


I did make a poor choice on the first marriage. (young and dumb) I however waited 8 years to remarry. I was very careful and picked a lady that had integrity and class. However people can change.

She got a job at an accounting firm that was questionable in ethics. I warned her before she took the job of how these people were. I did not try to control her by telling her she couldn't. Free will and all.

Anyway some of the girls there slept with the bigger clients and my once classy wife digressed into a unfaithful woman.

So the reason I advocate protection is not hate or anger, but just the fact people can turn on you no matter how much they once loved you.

c4 wrote...


Insofar as I know, any married person who is dissatisfied with their marriage can file for divorce by declaring that the marriage has irretrievably broken down. I do not see any court actually honoring a pre-nup that carried an implicit THREAT of divorce.


No threat at all it is a fact if it is not resigned whichever party refuses to resign will be served.


Pre-nups cannot over-ride things like child support or allow someone to be ejected from a marriage with nothing but the clothes on their back. People can CHOOSE that course of action if they want to get out of a marriage badly enough, sort of the equivalent of an animal chewing it's own leg off to escape a trap.


Never claimed they could. I took care of having another child long ago. And my pre nup simply lets each keep what they had before marriage and what each has earned during the marriage.

In other word no automatic 50% split. Each keeps their on bank accounts and such.


Regardless of what we forumites might find in perusing this marvel of modern literature, I doubt that it will ever be put to the test because no one will be willing to SIGN it.


Actually if you remember a lady here in the forums said she would do it in a minute. Because it gave her the chance to live rent free and control her own money!
So I think if one would be ready to sign just by hearing of it here surely someone in real life would see the benefit as well.


Sorry, dude, I think your attorney is probably taking a perfectly legal advantage of your insecurity and anger, to collect payment for creating a document that is probably never going to be actually used. I don't think that anyone can realistically write a marriage related document with a built-in coercion clause, and expect it to hold up. I suspect your attorney KNOWS this, and has little fear of being chastised for writing a document that has only a nominal chance of ever coming under legal scrutiny.
I'd make a reference to "mighty expensive toilet paper", but I wouldn't want to be unduly inflammatory.


Believe what ever you like I know it will do just what I want it to.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 267
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 10:48:12 AM

Methinks that -men- aren't the problem.

And me thinks? If you can blame women, and women ONLY for custody/divorce problems in the US today? It's not ALL men or women who have the problem, it's YOU! But that's just what I think about that comment and your polarized view of failures. JMO

(Oh and BTW? Statistics are made to bolster a thought or opinion of the person using said stats. I could likely post links endlessly proving your stats are erroneous, but you know what? Makes NO difference unless you are ONE of the people in the stats you find value in.)
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 268
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 10:54:51 AM

And me thinks? If you can blame women, and women ONLY for custody/divorce problems in the US today? It's not ALL men or women who have the problem, it's YOU! But that's just what I think about that comment and your polarized view of failures. JMO

(Oh and BTW? Statistics are made to bolster a thought or opinion of the person using said stats. I could likely post links endlessly proving your stats are erroneous, but you know what? Makes NO difference unless you are ONE of the people in the stats you find value in.)


verygreeneyes

Not trying to take up for him or the stats.....However I think he was trying to stifle the rant of one that accused all singe fathers of abuse/neglect of their children.

Neither gender is inherently good or bad. Each has it's share of both.

It would be nice to discuss a topic like this w/o digressing into a gender war of 3rd grade intellect!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 269
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 12:05:51 PM

Actually I responded that way because I can only speak for myself. Are there other men out there that has had these experiences sure but I don't claim to speak for them as the other person seems to do.

Sorry, it comes across as you trying to promote yourself as somehow exceptional. There is phrasing that you could use to modify that-but this is a discussion forum, not a writing workshop or debate/forensics class,so I won't go into it here.

I never said that. I said the laws favor the female in divorce court and that some do use them I have seen women serial marry and divorce to gain wealth.

I never SAID that YOU specifically said what you are denying you said.There are some other disgruntled males posting here, this isn't just all about you.

have seen women serial marry and divorce to gain wealth.

I'm sure you have. I have no doubt that some women here have seen a man who married to gain access to a vagina and a household servant. I'm sure there are MEN who marry for social and financial advantage. To infer,insinuate, suggest that any or all of these are major categories of reasons for marrying, is insulting to everyone.

Because contrary to popular belief most marriages survive. Which means there is a chance to find a lady that truly wants a good relationship/marriage.

Actually, I think that popular belief does hold that most marriages survive...otherwise people would have stopped doing it.

The problem is finding one that is willing to put the word and dedication it takes to make the long haul.

I have always worked hard to do just that when committed to someone.

Here's the thing about that-if the love is real and equal the work and dedication doesn't seem like "work".

I do advocate protecting ones assets from divorce.

Advocate? Honey, you WIELD your ideas of legal protection like a shield, banner and weapon. You are sowing an expectation of failure and that is what you will reap.

I would not force anyone to sign a pre nup they would have to sign it of their own free will.

If you mean "force" as in hold a gun to their head, of course not. But it sounds like if someone is unwilling to sign it without having some input-or a counter prenup that YOU sign, there will be no marriage.Depending on the timing of the presentation, there might be an argument for an element of coercion. And if you come into a first date with a woman and present her with your manifesto about protecting your assets, I suspect that quite a few women would not venture any further dating with you. I know that when I date a guy and all he talks about is how he got screwed in the divorce by this evil ex and how next time things will be different, I'm not much interested in a 2nd date with him.

I was very careful and picked a lady that had integrity and class. However people can change.

I disagree that true integrity, solid values,and class can change under normal conditions. Perhaps someone who was severely traumatized,or had an injury or illness affecting the brain, might change.

Anyway some of the girls there slept with the bigger clients and my once classy wife digressed into a unfaithful woman.
She was completely helpless to refuse to participate in that behavior? She was completely helpless to seek employment elsewhere? Your 2nd divorce was all somebody else's fault?

Actually if you remember a lady here in the forums said she would do it in a minute. Because it gave her the chance to live rent free and control her own money!

Stop right there. She was going to live in YOUR house and not make a financial contribution? User.
Not concerned about having no ownership rights or even tenancy rights in the roof over her head? Idiot.
Were you going to do all the housework and maintenance on the place? I wouldn't put in a lick of work on something that I had no ownership or tenancy rights in.
I'm not sure, but I would think that divorce court would look at any increase in VALUE of the residential property post marriage as a MARITAL asset. (Generally speaking,DESPITE current conditions,real property always appreciates in value.) You could stand to lose 50% of the appreciation in your home that occurred post-marriage. Even if it was only a modest gain, it's still FREE MONEY for her.

Believe what ever you like I know it will do just what I want it to.

Yes, it will keep away marriage.

Regardless, under the terms you have outlined, you’d still have arguments about whose money paid what for what and who benefitted from that thing during the marriage.

***************************************************

Why is it a problem that I advocate protection?
************************************************************

It isn’t. Family law lawyers love that stuff. That way they can make money coming and going.

Precisely.
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 270
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 12:48:24 PM
It's all been turned into an assets thing. What's yours is yours, and what's yours is mine. Makes no sense. Everybody make your own money, and have your own assets. AND don't keep letting the SHARKS (Lawyers) take your money. Do it the smart way, or don't do it at all. We are PLAYING with people's lives here, especially children who had nothing to do with it. They are innocent bystanders.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 271
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 1:42:50 PM

The word “automatic” means to require no additional action. The procedure you’re describing is not automatic. In fact, it sounds like a run of the mill divorce commenced by run of the mill service of process.


Go back and read the refusal to sign automatically starts the process not the divorce in it's entirety.


Pre-marital property is generally not considered in a divorce anyway. Marital income is rarely meticulously accounted for and is often used for joint purposes- both of which make it “commingled” and subject to a default 50/50 split. Regardless, under the terms you have outlined, you’d still have arguments about whose money paid what for what and who benefitted from that thing during the marriage.


Think again.


"Assets accumulated prior to a marriage are exempt from a divorce." Yes, in theory. However, real life dictates otherwise. If funds from an account are commingled, it can become marital property. If even a dime from an account is spent towards the marriage, it can be considered marital property. Buy your child a lollypop from your own account, and a good lawyer will take 1/2 of it for your ex-wife when you divorce. If a woman moves into a home the man owned prior to the marriage, it is not safe from divorce. If she so much as hangs up a sheet of wallpaper, the home is now classified as marital property, and is subject to equal division. (Worse actually, the man can be ejected from the home) Is this fair?


from....
http://www.edmecka.com/blogs/dont-marry-essay---why-marriage-has-become-a-raw-deal-for-men.html



It isn’t. Family law lawyers love that stuff. That way they can make money coming and going.


Maybe so but a pre nup is better than nothing. I would rather pay a set amount to a attorney than to hand over 50% of my assets.

c4 wrote...Sorry, it comes across as you trying to promote yourself as somehow exceptional. There is phrasing that you could use to modify that-but this is a discussion forum, not a writing workshop or debate/forensics class,so I won't go into it here.

How so I have only stated my stance I'm just a regular guy that has learned that protection of assets is needed.


I never SAID that YOU specifically said what you are denying you said.There are some other disgruntled males posting here, this isn't just all about you.


I haven't read anyones post that claimed that all women are evil. Just some big woop some men are evil as well.


I'm sure you have. I have no doubt that some women here have seen a man who married to gain access to a vagina and a household servant. I'm sure there are MEN who marry for social and financial advantage. To infer,insinuate, suggest that any or all of these are major categories of reasons for marrying, is insulting to everyone.


The actions I advocate would protect against most of this for both genders.....So your point is?



Here's the thing about that-if the love is real and equal the work and dedication doesn't seem like "work".


Marriage is work no matter how wonderful and equal the love is don't delude yourself.


Advocate? Honey, you WIELD your ideas of legal protection like a shield, banner and weapon. You are sowing an expectation of failure and that is what you will reap.


Funny when a woman advocated the exact same stance a couple of pages back she was not even questioned on it. Why don't you call her out?



If you mean "force" as in hold a gun to their head, of course not. But it sounds like if someone is unwilling to sign it without having some input-or a counter prenup that YOU sign, there will be no marriage.Depending on the timing of the presentation, there might be an argument for an element of coercion.


Hummm so a man saying he wouldn't get married is coercion?

She can make any suggestions that she likes if I agree with them they can be added. If not them no marriage.
The thing is we both have to agree on the terms of the pre nup. No one has to sign it.....only if there is going to be a wedding does the pre nup need to be signed.


And if you come into a first date with a woman and present her with your manifesto about protecting your assets, I suspect that quite a few women would not venture any further dating with you.


Is talk of marriage standard on your first date? Funny I would end a date the date if that was a topic on the very first one.....or second for that matter.


I know that when I date a guy and all he talks about is how he got screwed in the divorce by this evil ex and how next time things will be different, I'm not much interested in a 2nd date with him.


Didn't know I was on a date.....I thought this was a forum to discuss such ideas.



I disagree that true integrity, solid values,and class can change under normal conditions. Perhaps someone who was severely traumatized,or had an injury or illness affecting the brain, might change.


So you have never met a person that changed....Or was influenced by large amounts of money.
Politicians do it all the time!


She was completely helpless to refuse to participate in that behavior? She was completely helpless to seek employment elsewhere? Your 2nd divorce was all somebody else's fault?


Hummmm lets see I didn't give permission for her to break her wedding vows that is for sure.

Do I have my own quirks and moods sure but I didn't cheat!


Stop right there. She was going to live in YOUR house and not make a financial contribution? User.
Not concerned about having no ownership rights or even tenancy rights in the roof over her head? Idiot.


Actually I would see the owner of a house an idiot to allow someone live there and acquire equity in said home w/o buying into it.

Her living there rent free should more than cove any amount of work she would do while there.


Were you going to do all the housework and maintenance on the place? I wouldn't put in a lick of work on something that I had no ownership or tenancy rights in.


Yes the pre nup covers that I would be responsible for which I am now anyway so it would be the same if I was married.


I'm not sure, but I would think that divorce court would look at any increase in VALUE of the residential property post marriage as a MARITAL asset. (Generally speaking,DESPITE current conditions,real property always appreciates in value.) You could stand to lose 50% of the appreciation in your home that occurred post-marriage. Even if it was only a modest gain, it's still FREE MONEY for her.


No worries as the pre nup covers that .
No equity will be given to her just because she lived there. Just like if she owns a home I would not have equity in that.

As I said true equality.


Yes, it will keep away marriage.


That is ok too, better than giving away 50% of my assets!


It's all been turned into an assets thing. What's yours is yours, and what's yours is mine. Makes no sense. Everybody make your own money, and have your own assets. AND don't keep letting the SHARKS (Lawyers) take your money. Do it the smart way, or don't do it at all. We are PLAYING with people's lives here, especially children who had nothing to do with it. They are innocent bystanders.


Agreed and smart to me is protecting ones self. Because in divorce that is so easy to get there is no protection.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 272
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 2:01:27 PM

Agreed and smart to me is protecting ones self. Because in divorce that is so easy to get there is no protection.



I can tell you've been through the mill. And I am not saying it's just this gentlemen..... There are also women who went through the mill as well. As well as the children. It's just the way you come out of it my friends. Did you come out smarter? Or even dumber?! I've been to the mill also, but I am smarter for it. I can appreciate it, because I was there. ^^^^^^^ This man above speaks the truth. I give him a lot of credit, because he tried to play the game honestly. And someone tried to cheat him out of his honesty. Good for you man! And good for any women who did the same, and came out of it with a lesson learned.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 273
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 4:19:02 PM
I don't typically talk about myself a lot.........but for the purpose of this thread, I will.
I was raised by the most awesome man(my father) that any female child could ever hope to have, and maybe that's what most women today lack in their lives......a good male role model. My father always treated my mother with the utmost respect and he treated my brother and I much the same. When my brother married, my mother and father explained to my sister-in-law that she would always be treated with fairness and dignity and as a valued member of our family. My brother actually has some of the very same traits as my father and has always been respectful to my sister-in-law and defends her if anyone tries to trash talk her. After all, she is the mother of their child.

As for me, my father taught me very well and about the good, the bad and the ugly.......and he held nothing back about some of the more uglier things that can happen in life. I already knew about the good things that can happen in life from my mother, but my father is the one who gave me purpose and a sense of balance needed to live a good life.

I don't hate men, I only hate the ugly things they do..........nor do I hate women, I only hate the ugly things they sometimes do.

Maybe if mothers and fathers spent more time teaching children their values in life, they could find more balance in the things that they do.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 274
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 4:45:39 PM

Maybe if mothers and fathers spent more time teaching children their values in life, they could find more balance in the things that they do.


You are so right. It's called common sense, and dignity.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 275
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/2/2011 9:30:54 PM


You are mistaken sir. A legal proceeding commences with service of the Summons and Petition. See Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 3.01.


Lets see if I can make you understand. If not resigned the attorney automatically files the papers with the court to start the divorce.

That is the way it reads the offending party has the right to contest but with the pre nup we made it would be useless.



So we agree then. Your Massey Pre-nup (joke - see movie “Intolerable Cruelty”) accords you the same rights as every other married person without a pre-nup, and leaves you arguing about the very same issues - how much is mine and how much is yours.


Not really as my pre nup spells it out in detail. The only common things are the grocery's light bill cable bill. I have my own house and will pay all up keep of the house.

If she spends money on non removable items such as wall paper it becomes part of my house and she has no claim on it.

Any thing she buys and pays for is hers.

We keep no common accounts she has hers and I have mine. Neither have claim to each others accounts.

There is much more to it I have had three attorneys look it over and they all say it is the best pre nup they have ever seen.

So I'll take their word for it.


That’s prudent. I tend to favor fiscally conservative policies. Now we just have to decide which of your assets are yours, and which are hers.


Yes and it spells it out anything bought during the marriage the receipts are kept by the person that bought them.

I have run two business' and I assure you I know how to keep and file receipts.

Sound cold, maybe and if anyone knows a better way I am all ears.

Marriage for me is not worth the risk of loosing 50% of my assets so it is either the pre nup or no marriage.

triple R wrote.


Maybe if mothers and fathers spent more time teaching children their values in life, they could find more balance in the things that they do.


Finally something you posted I can agree with. I have taught my children to be honest and to provide for themselves. And to stand by their vows if they marry.

I have also taught them to protect their assets as NO ONE else will.

And yes I would want the same pre nup for my daughter as I have for my self. She is getting married and is considering using it.
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