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 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 276
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 12 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)

I have also taught them to protect their assets as NO ONE else will.

And yes I would want the same pre nup for my daughter as I have for my self. She is getting married and is considering using it.


Also.... Don't forget about the background check, and the credit check. You can also marry into something you can't get out of.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 277
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:33:36 AM

verygreeneyes

Not trying to take up for him or the stats.....However I think he was trying to stifle the rant of one that accused all singe fathers of abuse/neglect of their children.

Neither gender is inherently good or bad. Each has it's share of both.

It would be nice to discuss a topic like this w/o digressing into a gender war of 3rd grade intellect!

Thank you for clarifying for me. I think my eyes got bloody the page before his statement ~ I likely missed where he may have been prompted into that statement. (And yes, wouldn't it be grand if we could just communicate, hell, even debate a topic without the gender war! Oh!!! The thought makes me giddy ~ but alas, my giddiness is always short-lived in here when I get all optimistic and stuff.)
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 278
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 11:39:14 AM
(And yes, wouldn't it be grand if we could just communicate, hell, even debate a topic without the gender war! Oh!!! The thought makes me giddy ~ but alas, my giddiness is always short-lived in here when I get all optimistic and stuff.)


This will always be the case. People need to learn to be non-conformists. Or middle of the road. Otherwise it will always be women against men, left against right, conservatives against liberals, republicans against democrats, and vice-a-versa....... Does anyone else see a picture forming here? There's more MONEY to be made by people disagreeing. We need a common ground to stand on.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 279
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 11:59:10 AM
This will always be the case. People need to learn to be non-conformists. Otherwise it will always be women against men, left against right, conservatives against liberals, republicans against democrats, and vice-a-versa....... Does anyone else see a picture forming here? There's more MONEY to be made by people disagreeing. We need a common ground to stand on.

But do you realize that you are in here promoting the gender issue? Non-conforming has NOTHING to do with gender-bias. Left against right is the same as conservatives against liberals (generally) and again, that has NOTHING to do with gender. As for money being made by disagreeing? I don't recall getting paid a dime to be here on POF discussing topics. And you certainly aren't making a salary here for doing so. You are throwing gender in, because? You likely believe that there is a reason to do so. And that's more than fine ~ you've got the right to post what you think just like everyone else here. However? You all of a sudden thinking that "disagreeing" is gender-bias-based speaks volumes about WHY you post as you do. And it makes NO sense to swap sides and say it would be nice if gender-wars didn't happen in here. Sorry ~ it just makes NO sense. There doesn't need to be a common-ground ~ there needs to be an open-mind to the reality that it's not gender based, it's PEOPLE based when things go awry whether that's marriage and/or divorce. JMO
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 280
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:14:56 PM


This will always be the case. People need to learn to be non-conformists. Or middle of the road. Otherwise it will always be women against men, left against right, conservatives against liberals, republicans against democrats, and vice-a-versa....... Does anyone else see a picture forming here? There's more MONEY to be made by people disagreeing. We need a common ground to stand on.


That use to be something known as common sense. Now it is all about "me" everyone is just so ready to sell each other out so they can have what they think is best for themselves.

I tried for years to find someone that had the intestinal fortitude to really take the wedding vows as seriously as my grandparents and parents did.

Seems that is not the case so the next best thing is a contract that if the vows are broken will protect my assets.

Sad really what should be common sense...."actually taking a vow seriously"

My Grandfather on my mothers side told me a mans word is his bond.

How much more should a vow before God family and friends be?

My point is if your not ready and I mean really ready to be there for a lifetime save the other person a lot of grief pain and money!

Marriage is NOT what you make of it....It is what two people make of it.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 281
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:18:55 PM

c4 wrote...Sorry, it comes across as you trying to promote yourself as somehow exceptional. There is phrasing that you could use to modify that-but this is a discussion forum, not a writing workshop or debate/forensics class,so I won't go into it here.


How so I have only stated my stance I'm just a regular guy that has learned that protection of assets is needed.

But you repeat it so frequently I have to ask, do you presume that every other regular guy who might read these forums is completely clueless and uninformed about such matters? You got burnt a couple of times, now you've fireproofed yourself( or so you think),and apparently bringing it up all the time serves as some kind of bolster to your self-esteem.

Here's the thing about that-if the love is real and equal the work and dedication doesn't seem like "work".


Marriage is work no matter how wonderful and equal the love is don't delude yourself.

I'm the one who is single only because her 25+yrs spouse passed away, you have 2 failed marriages-what was that about "delude". You couldn't even comprehend what I actually said. I didn't say it WASN'T work and dedication, I said it didn't SEEM like work.

Advocate? Honey, you WIELD your ideas of legal protection like a shield, banner and weapon. You are sowing an expectation of failure and that is what you will reap.


Funny when a woman advocated the exact same stance a couple of pages back she was not even questioned on it. Why don't you call her out?

You have a longterm pattern of preaching -"asset protection/legal protection" and how you were able to use a law that is no longer on the books in most states,to avoid experiencing any financial impact in your failed marriages-not just one post.
And I'm not "calling you out"- I'm making an observation. Apparently your elaborate efforts to protect yourself from whatever it is you REALLY fear, gives you a great deal of comfort. I wouldn't DREAM of trying to deprive you of it.

Is talk of marriage standard on your first date? Funny I would end a date the date if that was a topic on the very first one.....or second for that matter.

Of course it isn't.And you may THINK you aren't talking about marriage or "protecting yourself/your assets", but you seem so wound up about your "strategy", that I can't help but wonder if it doesn't become a topic early in any dating interaction.

I know that when I date a guy and all he talks about is how he got screwed in the divorce by this evil ex and how next time things will be different, I'm not much interested in a 2nd date with him.
********************************

Didn't know I was on a date.....I thought this was a forum to discuss such ideas.

It was a general observation directed to the entire audience.
Interesting that you thought-again-that it was just all about you.

So you have never met a person that changed....Or was influenced by large amounts of money.
Politicians do it all the time!

I have met people who couldn't continue indefinitely maintaining a facade, and I have met people who changed somewhat due to serious stress and trauma. To change just because of "a large amount of money"? Nope-they were all about money to begin with...there may have been some reason that they worked hard to conceal it.

She was completely helpless to refuse to participate in that behavior? She was completely helpless to seek employment elsewhere? Your 2nd divorce was all somebody else's fault?
**********************************************************************************

Hummmm lets see I didn't give permission for her to break her wedding vows that is for sure.

My question wasn't ABOUT your permission-it was about her own strength of character! People she worked with did not ruin your marriage, money did not ruin your marriage...you and she ruined your marriage.

As I said true equality.

No, true equality would be that you each lived in your own place and just had a relationship insted of getting married.
Not really as my pre nup spells it out in detail. The only common things are the grocery's light bill cable bill. I have my own house and will pay all up keep of the house.

If she spends money on non removable items such as wall paper it becomes part of my house and she has no claim on it.

Any thing she buys and pays for is hers.

We keep no common accounts she has hers and I have mine. Neither have claim to each others accounts.

There is much more to it I have had three attorneys look it over and they all say it is the best pre nup they have ever seen.

That would not be a marriage, it would be an ongoing exercise in record-keeping and ledger-balancing! Would you both of you also buy your own food and fix your own meals?
However,
BECAUSE there are so many fearful men huddled over their assets, and other men who don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of,looking to to hook up with a sugar mamma and drain HER resources, I am very much in favor of mature people considering non-marital, not-cohabiting LTRs, rather than having to choose between being alone or putting a financially comfortable old age at risk. No paying lawyers to draw up prenups and counter-prenups, no constant record-keeping and receipt-saving.
Some have disagreed with me about the noncohabiting LTR and say that it would have nothing to offer a man...but if you have a man who is terrified that no woman would want him except to try and get his money and "stuff", I would think this type of relationship would be pretty convincing proof that all she wanted was him.
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 282
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:33:33 PM
But do you realize that you are in here promoting the gender issue? Non-conforming has NOTHING to do with gender-bias. Left against right is the same as conservatives against liberals (generally) and again, that has NOTHING to do with gender. As for money being made by disagreeing? I don't recall getting paid a dime to be here on POF discussing topics. And you certainly aren't making a salary here for doing so. You are throwing gender in, because? You likely believe that there is a reason to do so. And that's more than fine ~ you've got the right to post what you think just like everyone else here. However? You all of a sudden thinking that "disagreeing" is gender-bias-based speaks volumes about WHY you post as you do. And it makes NO sense to swap sides and say it would be nice if gender-wars didn't happen in here. Sorry ~ it just makes NO sense. There doesn't need to be a common-ground ~ there needs to be an open-mind to the reality that it's not gender based, it's PEOPLE based when things go awry whether that's marriage and/or divorce. JMO






Verygreeneyez.... I'm not trying to make it anyone against anyone. I know a lot of women whom are JUST my friends. Their is no SEX involved. I just so happen to understand them, and get along with them. I was raised by a mother who had no father. My aunt as well..... These two strong women, and their strong mother [my grandmother] raised themselves. See I was taught proper values to the opposite sex. Hell I never even treated any women as nothing more than my equal. Don't let the undershirt in my picture make you think it's a wife beater. It's NOT. It's an undershirt. Just like I would not call a women's bra, a t-*-t-t-y strap. It's a bra. That's called respect, and consideration to one another. This topic is "What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?" Please let's not destroy this wonderful informing thread with a gender war.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 283
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:38:52 PM
Seems that is not the case so the next best thing is a contract that if the vows are broken will protect my assets.

Sad really what should be common sense...."actually taking a vow seriously"

My Grandfather on my mothers side told me a mans word is his bond.

How much more should a vow before God family and friends be?

My point is if your not ready and I mean really ready to be there for a lifetime save the other person a lot of grief pain and money!

Marriage is NOT what you make of it....It is what two people make of it.



Dude..... you make too much common sense to me. I totally agree with you.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 284
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:51:22 PM

Hummmm lets see I didn't give permission for her to break her wedding vows that is for sure.


As someone who has been cheated on, I see now that there was more wrong in our relationship than I knew at the time. I don't condone what he did, but I'm not blameless.

Sorry MJYAWN - you do come across as bitter as much as you try to say you aren't. The fact that you repeatedly defend that you are not kinda even makes it more so.

I think it's rather sad. As Unix said, we have all been hurt, but some people let this fester and fester for so long. You don't need to tell your kids to get pre-nups, they have already been poisoned against marriage.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 285
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 12:56:37 PM

But you repeat it so frequently I have to ask, do you presume that every other regular guy who might read these forums is completely clueless and uninformed about such matters?


It would seem so as they keep posting about it. BTW if you go back I got in on this when a poster was posting outlandish misandrist propaganda.

I simply showed where she was wrong.




You got burnt a couple of times, now you've fireproofed yourself( or so you think),and apparently bringing it up all the time serves as some kind of bolster to your self-esteem.


See above answer as you conclusion is fallacious.




I'm the one who is single only because her 25+yrs spouse passed away, you have 2 failed marriages-what was that about "delude". You couldn't even comprehend what I actually said. I didn't say it WASN'T work and dedication, I said it didn't SEEM like work.


My last marriage was great for 9 years until she gave into greed. And even when it was great there was times it had to be worked at.
Two people can NOT be on the same page all the time.




You have a longterm pattern of preaching -"asset protection/legal protection" and how you were able to use a law that is no longer on the books in most states,to avoid experiencing any financial impact in your failed marriages-not just one post.
And I'm not "calling you out"- I'm making an observation. Apparently your elaborate efforts to protect yourself from whatever it is you REALLY fear, gives you a great deal of comfort. I wouldn't DREAM of trying to deprive you of it.


I only bring it up when I see the need in it.

Beside read my last post. I would much rather find a lady that takes the marriage vows like my parents and grandparents.
Seeing as that seems almost impossible I revert to the next best thing. PROTECTION.




Of course it isn't.And you may THINK you aren't talking about marriage or "protecting yourself/your assets", but you seem so wound up about your "strategy", that I can't help but wonder if it doesn't become a topic early in any dating interaction.


That would be assuming and you should know how that normally turns out.

Just as it did for you this time marriage is the last thing on my mind for months if it even gets that far!




It was a general observation directed to the entire audience.
Interesting that you thought-again-that it was just all about you.


You posted that right after you accused me of talking pre nups on a first date. Of course it was apparent that it wasn't meant just for me!





I have met people who couldn't continue indefinitely maintaining a facade, and I have met people who changed somewhat due to serious stress and trauma. To change just because of "a large amount of money"? Nope-they were all about money to begin with...there may have been some reason that they worked hard to conceal it.


If that is true you just took away a reason for many to divorce!

How many times have I heard "Your not the man I married" when a woman just want to see greener grass?
(Disclaimer) I heard it personally once and many times have been told by friends they heard it.



My question wasn't ABOUT your permission-it was about her own strength of character! People she worked with did not ruin your marriage, money did not ruin your marriage...you and she ruined your marriage.


Using that logic a rape victim has responsibility in causing the rape.

I did not break my vows she did. But I know in your mind there is no way it was just her fault.

It was the money that enticed her to cheat not me!





No, true equality would be that you each lived in your own place and just had a relationship insted of getting married.


So your saying a man and women can be equal if they both own there own place but can't if they marry and live in the same place.

I'm intrigued please elaborate.




edit...


Dude..... you make too much common sense to me. I totally agree with you.


Yeah but like Elvis common sense has left the building!



I think it's rather sad. As Unix said, we have all been hurt, but some people let this fester and fester for so long. You don't need to tell your kids to get pre-nups, they have already been poisoned against marriage.


Hummmm you see a pre nup as poison and a a marriage that allows someone to be raped financially as normal.

BTW I have moved on as the pre nup proves I would get married again just not w/o protection.


We all need to stop looking in the rear view mirror, and look at the road ahead. For all of us who have been hurt before..... We just need a lesson in being a better judge of character. I know I have made that mistake. But I promised myself, and anyone I will meet that it will not happen like that again.


I agree totally and part of that moving on is learning from mistakes.

A couple of years back Eric Meddlin was killed while testing a funny car because a tire blew out.

His boss John Force spent well over a million dollars in the following 6 weeks to invent safety equipment to prevent that from happening again.

To this date his change in the way it was always done has allow racers to live trough the same type of accident.

So moving forward means learning and changing the way some things are done.....I stand by my safety changes!




<div class='quote'>That would not be a marriage, it would be an ongoing exercise in record-keeping and ledger-balancing!

Nope that would be a marriage that would not financially cripple the one with more assets.

Funny thing in Europe they some places did away with quick no fault divorce. It can be quick if both agree on a distribution of the assets. 30 days in that case.

However if the two can't agree there is a 3-7 year waiting period for the divorce to be final.

You know what happened........The filing on no fault went down drastically in those places.

Seems that when there is no automatic 50% split there is less need for divorce.

The US should follow suit!
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 286
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 1:06:02 PM

I think it's rather sad. As Unix said, we have all been hurt, but some people let this fester and fester for so long. You don't need to tell your kids to get pre-nups, they have already been poisoned against marriage.


We all need to stop looking in the rear view mirror, and look at the road ahead. For all of us who have been hurt before..... We just need a lesson in being a better judge of character. I know I have made that mistake. But I promised myself, and anyone I will meet that it will not happen like that again.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 287
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 1:23:21 PM
We all need to stop looking in the rear view mirror, and look at the road ahead. For all of us who have been hurt before..... We just need a lesson in being a better judge of character. I know I have made that mistake. But I promised myself, and anyone I will meet that it will not happen like that again.

I agree with the sentiment but we all know that's not always the way it works out. If a person feels they need to plan for possible contingencies (as in a pre-nup) it's likely wise. It's no different than believing you'll always have a job and then wondering what the he!! you're going to do when you lose it and have no back-up plan to keep your life running smoothly financially. You could have started out loving your job, your boss and the company but things can turn sour in life. The possibilities where marriage are concerned are no different. If a pre-nup is never used, hip hip hurray, but it likely is as smart as any other forms of financial planning are concerned.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 288
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 4:58:15 PM

I think it's rather sad. As Unix said, we have all been hurt, but some people let this fester and fester for so long. You don't need to tell your kids to get pre-nups, they have already been poisoned against marriage.


I've never been married or lived in a common-law relationship, but most of the men I meet have...................and it is really difficult for me to deal with their anger that has resulted from previous relationships, and I just think that I should not be expected to deal with THEIR ANGER ISSUES. I'm not a freaking psychologist, but sometimes I think I should be paid a psychologists hourly rate to listen to all the drama and emotional problems those men have.

I'm beginning to think there really aren't any benefits for a woman or a man to get legally married or to be involved in a common-law relationship. The only time the benefits are realized by both, is if the marriage is happy and all goes well...........as is the case with my parents and my brother/sister-in-law's marriages. Oh, and I got a cute little nephew out of the deal too, so Auntie Razz got a bit of a bonus too.

Guess, everyone needs lessons on how to become a "good picker" for the type of relationship they want. If yah both want the same things, then it's a happy day in paradise.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 289
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 8:55:16 PM

Beside read my last post. I would much rather find a lady that takes the marriage vows like my parents and grandparents.

Really? what about the vow "I with thee my worldly goods endow" that is in the oldfashioned marriage vows? Before anybody freaks out, it is a vow taken by BOTH parties. You want to talk your grandparents marriage vows-that clause was in there...a "pre-nup" doesn't track with your grand-parents marriage vows. And because of the weight that social/community disapproval carried when your grandparents took marriage vows, divorce was a pretty drastic step, in those times. I don't think you can talk "your grandparents marriage vows" and "prenups" in the same breath,dude.


Using that logic a rape victim has responsibility in causing the rape.
Nice try-but that is clearly nothing but a red herring. Rape is a crime. Marriage isn't.


I did not break my vows she did. But I know in your mind there is no way it was just her fault.

Except in rare cases of emotional and/or sexual pathology, broken vows/failed marriages are never "just her", or "just his" fault. It takes 2 to tango.


It was the money that enticed her to cheat not me!

WTF??? She went into prostitution? In Heavens' name, WHY!!??
So your saying a man and women can be equal if they both own there own place but can't if they marry and live in the same place.

I'm intrigued please elaborate.

No, I'm saying that a non-marital, non-cohabiting LTR would permit both parties to protect their assets, and remove any possibility of a marriage or relationship being entered into so that someone could take half of your assets. I know- I hitched the suggestion to your comment about true equality-and whether or not a married couple is "equal" is not something that one can make a universal statement about. But not marrying/cohabiting would certainly allow both parties to protect the assets they already owned.

As for more safety measures being instituted in drag racing after Eric Medlin's death, NASCAR did the same thing after Earnhardt Sr. died in the 2001 Daytona 500. Yes, often it does take a disaster,or near-disaster,to inspire a concerted effort to get out in front of it happening again. If I'm not mistaken, the concept of prenuptial agreements came out of some high profile divorce cases.
I am not anti prenup, not in the least. In many cases they are a prudent step to take. But many attorneys and other professional advisors recommend that both man and woman have separate legal counsel and that the pre-nup is drawn up in a negotiative context...not one person hitting the other one with an already written "done-deal-sign-or-the-marriage is off" agreement.
But,whatever way they are arrived at, they are NOT a safety roll cage against the emotional devastation of a broken marriage. All they can do is prevent or ameliorate possible financial devastation.

and I just think that I should not be expected to deal with THEIR ANGER ISSUES. I'm not a freaking psychologist, but sometimes I think I should be paid a psychologists hourly rate to listen to all the drama and emotional problems those men have.

I'm beginning to think there really aren't any benefits for a woman or a man to get legally married or to be involved in a common-law relationship.

While I have been married happily- I do agree with you about these hypervigilant men who want a relationship but the minute any inconvenience, concern, misunderstanding or difference of opinion arises they are running out the door. This is why I often suggest that perhaps a non-cohabiting long-term relationship, with no intent of marriage, might be an option worth considering for older adults. I don't think it would be a framework that a couple could raise a family in...even when a marriage or relationship fails AFTER the children are born, at least the couple can say they TRIED.
Actually, even if a marriage or cohabiting relationship fails, there can be the benefit of wisdom gained. But that wisdom should be empowerment, NOT being frozen in fear.
Cindy O
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 290
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 9:12:52 PM
With all the talk of needing a pre-nup, I wonder how often engagements and weddings were called off because the couple couldn't agree what should be in a pre-nup. If both hired lawyers separately to draw up a pre-nup and the lawyers are negotiating the best pre-nup deal for their client and can't settle on what is fair, the best deal always goes to the lawyers.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 291
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/3/2011 9:26:11 PM
Hummmm you see a pre nup as poison and a a marriage that allows someone to be raped financially as normal.


Interesting how you assumed that's what I mean......kinda proves my point.


We all need to stop looking in the rear view mirror, and look at the road ahead. For all of us who have been hurt before..... We just need a lesson in being a better judge of character. I know I have made that mistake. But I promised myself, and anyone I will meet that it will not happen like that again.


This is a far healthier way to make your point. Unix could insist in these forums on a pre-nup and he would not come across as bitter.

Sometimes, it's more about how you say something than what you say.


I'm beginning to think there really aren't any benefits for a woman or a man to get legally married or to be involved in a common-law relationship.


I've seen it work both ways. Completely up to the individual and the two people involved. I would not try to discourage anyone from choosing either option. For me a commitment is a commitment, I don't need to get married to uphold that.


While I have been married happily- I do agree with you about these hypervigilant men who want a relationship but the minute any inconvenience, concern, misunderstanding or difference of opinion arises they are running out the door.


What concerns me even more is that they often are not even self-aware that they are that hypervigilant. I know I was about certain aspects of relationships, so I took a step back.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 292
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 8:44:36 AM

What concerns me even more is that they often are not even self-aware that they are that hypervigilant.

I think that is a very well-founded concern. It's a great temptation to presume that these ultra-gunshy men are engaged in romance-seeking activities for an adverse or oblique reason, when very possibly they don't even realize what they are doing. Regardless of the reason, another by-product is that those who were NOT "betrayed" and are approaching dating and relationships from a more relaxed and trusting viewpoint, often end up being hypervigilant about hypervigilance. They become convinced that the dating pool for all but the very young and the very old has been peed in one too many times, and themselves becomes super-critical and reluctant to make any emotional investment in dating.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 293
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 10:26:36 AM

They become convinced that the dating pool for all but the very young and the very old has been peed in one too many times, and themselves becomes super-critical and reluctant to make any emotional investment in dating.


I'm not worried about making an emotional investment....It is the financial investment in divorce I'm allergic to!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 294
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 11:30:06 AM

I'm not worried about making an emotional investment....

with all due respect, I beg to differ...


It is the financial investment in divorce I'm allergic to!

That is because you have made the very common reaction of equating love with money. IMO,what people in a failing marriage are REALLY fighting about when they fight over asset division, child custody and support,alimony, who gets the house, etc is getting as much as they can, (or PROTECTING as much as they can) of what in their mind is the consolation prize for lost love-money.

Look, I completely understand the concerns about having a marriage or cohabiting relationship negatively impacting ones financial well-being in what are supposed to be "golden years". Some thoughtful research, a contingency plan, or a prenup-(and a will)especially if there is AGREEMENT on a different handling of ones' estate than what the standard probate in your state stipulates are common sense-but if you want to be completely, biblically ,technical about it, a prenup or prenups is COUNTER to a passage in the traditional marriage vows( with all my worldly goods I thee endow), for those who keep rattling on about "protecting assets" and then with the next breath glorify traditional old-fashioned marriage vows.

Here's another reason why a SAVVY woman is not going to marry a man and live in his house without being doubly sure that HIS heirs cannot evict her with nothing-yes, this does happen!-in the event of his death.
I've also heard of courts REFUSING to honor prenups or wills that were counter to state probate laws, especially if doing so socioeconomically victimized the surviving spouse.
There are also concerns about asset protection in the face of long-term illness, on BOTH sides of the coin.
So my suggestion, if financial ramifications are a serious concern(and I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T be!) is that older unattached people might want to consider non-marital, non cohabiting LTRs.
For younger people-if there are children-I'm sorry, but their best interests come first. If the fear of being financially victimized by parenthood has your testicles retreating into your abdominal cavity, don't marry- and use your d*ck with well-considered judiciousness and caution.
If you and your spouse decide to have children and make some kind of 'agreement' about her returning to work,etc-keep in mind that there are many circumstances that could occur which could prevent or limit her ability to do so...when you bring a new life into the world there is a variable of unpredictablity that comes along with it. In a variety of scenarios and circumstances, it is entirely possible for child care and associated expenses to actually cost MORE than the mothers' return to work brings in. I've know of several couples who tracked costs and found this out. In a couple of cases it still made sense for her to work because of insurance coverage benefits...but I don't think that anybody can make a summary claim of a working mother "breaking an agreement" to return to work without knowing a helluva lot more about the particulars. I'm not ASKING for a post detailing particulars of the situation that was at one time being used as an example!-I'm simply observing that accusing the woman of "breaking the agreement" is overly simplistic.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 295
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 11:56:03 AM

with all due respect, I beg to differ...


And with all due respect you don't know me so your opinions are as fallacious as most of your logic in your posts.


but if you want to be completely, biblically ,technical about it, a prenup or prenups is COUNTER to a passage in the traditional marriage vows( with all my worldly goods I thee endow), for those who keep rattling on about "protecting assets" and then with the next breath glorify traditional old-fashioned marriage vows.


That would be great however The divorce laws were not so one sided back then and people actually took their vows as a lifetime commitment.

And if you would read what I said....


That use to be something known as common sense. Now it is all about "me" everyone is just so ready to sell each other out so they can have what they think is best for themselves.

I tried for years to find someone that had the intestinal fortitude to really take the wedding vows as seriously as my grandparents and parents did.

Seems that is not the case so the next best thing is a contract that if the vows are broken will protect my assets.

Sad really what should be common sense...."actually taking a vow seriously"

My Grandfather on my mothers side told me a mans word is his bond.

How much more should a vow before God family and friends be?

My point is if your not ready and I mean really ready to be there for a lifetime save the other person a lot of grief pain and money!

Marriage is NOT what you make of it....It is what two people make of it.


Nice try at spinning my words. Didn't work but nice try.



Here's another reason why a SAVVY woman is not going to marry a man and live in his house without being doubly sure that HIS heirs cannot evict her with nothing-yes, this does happen!-in the event of his death.


As usual I am way a head of you. There is a living estate in the pre nup she is free to live there as long as she likes.

If she moves out the home is my children's. Does that meet your standards? (rhetorical question)


I've also heard of courts REFUSING to honor prenups or wills that were counter to state probate laws, especially if doing so socioeconomically victimized the surviving spouse.


No problem the house actually belongs to a LLC that my kids are already partial owners in.
They already own enough of it that if I died it would do her no good to fight it in court.

Did you really think the pre nup was my only protection?

Why does this bother you so much? If it is as useless as you say why fear it?

If divorce laws really don't favor the female gender why fear a contract that really makes the division of property even according to what someone put into it?

As Bill says the spin stops here!
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 296
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 12:04:22 PM
Yet those same men who claim to have been so financially damaged by marriage, would not hesitate taking advantage of a woman who had greater wealth than they did.

It's JMO that separated/divorced men are simply "damaged goods." Believe me, I've seen my share of gold-digger men, who like to confuse money with love.



Oh, some like to confuse sex with love too.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 297
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 12:21:36 PM
Everyone look up, and Google "Victicious Litigant". Let me know what you find.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 298
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 12:50:36 PM

No problem the house actually belongs to a LLC that my kids are already partial owners in.
They already own enough of it that if I died it would do her no good to fight it in court.


Here's a thought......why don't you and your children live in it and you all can clean and maintain it as well. No self-respecting woman is gonna give up her day job or work extra overtime for zero dollars to clean and maintain something that will never belong to her and/or her children.

Does gold-digger of a woman's time for zero dollars ring any bells?

Razz, slowly walks through the entrance of HER SHACK and SLAMS the gold-plated door shut. Buwah....ha...haa!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 299
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 12:59:23 PM

Why does this bother you so much? If it is as useless as you say why fear it?


what makes you think I am even remotely bothered, or that I fear anything(except the wrath of God,which is the BEGINNING of wisdom)?

And with all due respect you don't know me so your opinions are as fallacious as most of your logic in your posts.

Just SAYING someone's opinions and /or logic is "fallacious" doesn't make it so. An an opinion cannot be "fallacious", anyway. People may disagree with one anothers' opinions and cite reasons for their disagreement, but to say an opinion is "fallacious" is incorrect. An opinion is a subjective collection of thoughts on a subject, topic, situation,and everyone is entitled to formulate their own. Others may disagree with that opinion, but since it is subjective-it cannot be called fallacious.
As far as my logic being fallacious-that is your OPINION.

That would be great however The divorce laws were not so one sided back then and people actually took their vows as a lifetime commitment.

No, actually, as I understand it, "back then", divorce laws tended to favor the men, however SOCIAL opinion carried a lot more weight, and because they realized that a divorce could leave them and their children destitute or dependent on other family or the community,women often stayed and made the best they could of a miserable marriage.
Marriage vows honored due to love, committment, integrity are one thing. Marriages that are a hollow shell surviving only because of socioeconomic fear are another.

Divorce laws are intended, first and foremost, to protect the best interests of children.

If you choose to believe that current divorce laws are some biased construct invented by a system that encourages women to use serial marriage and divorce as a career plan, that is your choice. I would call that belief a distortion, not a fallacy, but that would be MY OPINION.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 300
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/4/2011 1:14:21 PM

Here's a thought......why don't you and your children live in it and you all can clean and maintain it as well. No self-respecting woman is gonna give up her day job or work extra overtime for zero dollars to clean and maintain something that will never belong to her and/or her children.


I clean it anyway and who said she should quit her job?

If she did that she couldn't pay her half of the lights grocery's cable and such.


Does gold-digger of a woman's time for zero dollars ring any bells?


How would that be gold digging her time she lives in a house rent free?




what makes you think I am even remotely bothered, or that I fear anything(except the wrath of God,which is the BEGINNING of wisdom)?


Maybe because you always try and spin my words.


Just SAYING someone's opinions and /or logic is "fallacious" doesn't make it so. An an opinion cannot be "fallacious", anyway. People may disagree with one anothers' opinions and cite reasons for their disagreement, but to say an opinion is "fallacious" is incorrect. An opinion is a subjective collection of thoughts on a subject, topic, situation,and everyone is entitled to formulate their own. Others may disagree with that opinion, but since it is subjective-it cannot be called fallacious.
As far as my logic being fallacious-that is your OPINION.


Actually opinions can be fallacious when based on half truths and spin.


If you choose to believe that current divorce laws are some biased construct invented by a system that encourages women to use serial marriage and divorce as a career plan, that is your choice. I would call that belief a distortion, not a fallacy, but that would be MY OPINION.


As I said a few posts back.....When the 50/50 split was done away with in some of Europe's jurisdictions the divorce rate went down over 30%.

They can still get a quick no fault they just have to work out an agreeable split between themselves.

As the court will not do that for them until the 3-7 year wait is over.


Everyone look up, and Google "Victicious Litigant". Let me know what you find.


Very interesting......The very first site that comes up has divorce and family court.
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