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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?      Home login  
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 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 326
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 14 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
I think that Maleman and 3R have given us a look at the "dark side" from the perspective/observation/experience of their respective genders. And I do not argue that there IS a "dark side". It is true, that really not all that long ago, that other than a very strong sense of social disapproval towards a man who abandoned his family, there wasn't a whole lot of help for the mother and the children if the man chose to abandon his marriage,and if he did as 3R mentioned, ran away to another area with his side piece, that "social disapproval" really didn't have a lot of teeth to it.

I would never be so naive or foolish as to claim that dishonest/dishonorable people don't get married. Nor do I mean to make light of anyone's concerns about entering into a mid-or later-in-life marriage and risking financial setbacks if it doesn't work out.

But anyone who enters a marriage already carrying a chip on their shoulder is simply INCREASING the risk of it failing.
However, very few divorces occur in a vacuum. Granted, there are some people who go into a marriage for self-serving reasons and dishonest intentions. But for most failed marriages, there are 3 sides to the story-his, hers and the real truth.

All I can say is that if marriage frightens you, don't do it.
Cindy O
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 327
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/5/2011 11:04:10 PM

Geez, now men are finally getting a taste of what it was like for women in the early 1930's, 40's, 50's and 60's. Remember your history when it was typical for a man to have a wife and children at home and a mistress in an apartment that he was paying for from the family bank account.


Well now, who can argue with history... I mean YOUR history.

Your "typical" is about 1-2% of men... same as it is today.



Women found out back then that marriage wasn't worth the time that it took to sign the marriage license and certificate.


Hence the new 50% rules, child support, alimony, pension, etc.. Now it is worth your while.

As if we didn't know it has always been about money.



Well, here it is 2011 and it took men 60+ years to finally figure out that the institution of marriage that their forefathers created is a big pile of caw caw and provides no security for either spouse


Evil dumb men! Eat sh*t now you bad bad men. Girl power!



If the forefathers created marriage, the foremothers gladly participated - most likely because it was in their best interest.

If anything, women got off easy due marriage. But, please, don't believe this, I enjoy your "girl-power" attitude.

Any history book describing the work conditions from the Industrial Revolution up until 1960 will be more than enough to show that women who stayed at home due to marriage got off easy.



I suppose that's because people didn't marry for love back then, they typically married for sex and money and the prestige of being a married man or woman.


It's no different today.



You see, married men usually got jobs quicker than single men......employers were pretty discriminatory about things like that back then too.


You are right. They did get jobs quicker - like mining jobs, shining shoes, etc.. Basically jobs that no one really wanted to do.

Single men, cause they had no pressure to earn, or earn as much, were more selective.

Just like today.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 328
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/5/2011 11:05:12 PM

Geez, now men are finally getting a taste of what it was like for women in the early 1930's, 40's, 50's and 60's. Remember your history when it was typical for a man to have a wife and children at home and a mistress in an apartment that he was paying for from the family bank account.



This is starting to sound like a bar fight. Word of advice for everyone..... everyone should have a Revocable Trust, or Irrevocable Trust. If you do not have one, then it's the expired person's fault.
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 329
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/5/2011 11:55:13 PM

Better brush up on AZ law then as the custodial parent can Not stop visitation because of lack of payment!

Why? If you're gonna check my profile, check my age as well. My 'kids' are 35 and 38. I am not a custodial parent. And I've lived in AZ a grand total of 5 weeks - barely. This is not where I raised my family.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 330
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 1:13:54 AM
Geez, now men are finally getting a taste of what it was like for women in the early 1930's, 40's, 50's and 60's. Remember your history when it was typical for a man to have a wife and children at home and a mistress in an apartment that he was paying for from the family bank account.

You talk about this like you were a victim of such "oppression," despite the fact that you were born in the 70's.



Women found out back then that marriage wasn't worth the time that it took to sign the marriage license and certificate.

And yet the pressure still came from (and still does today) women for men to get married.


You see, married men usually got jobs quicker than single men......employers were pretty discriminatory about things like that back then too.

From a business standpoint, the higher up in the pecking order you are, the better off you are being single, especially if you own a part of the company. The risk of a divorce is a liability for pretty much everyone involved.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 331
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 9:33:53 AM


I think you should be admonished for posting vendictive comments towards other posters and unnessarily provoking certain posters.

I always find it interesting that women's past plight is brought up to bolster present day reality.

Well, maybe it's not a woman's past plight in your small 100 mile radius of the world, but it is present day reality in other parts of the world. So shake the soda crackers out of your head and stop making generalizations and please contribute something useful to this thread, so the pendulum will stop swinging.

The irony is just TOO great to pass up. You don't like vendictive comments, yet you post one.

Women found out back then that marriage wasn't worth the time that it took to sign the marriage license and certificate.

I don't know which "women" you speak of ~ but if you are speaking of ALL women, you are DEAD wrong on this comment. MANY women, including myself, found and still find great value in signing a marriage licence and marriage.

And yet the pressure still came from (and still does today) women for men to get married.

Maybe in the world you live in. I've been asked to get married 3 times since becoming single 11 years ago. It wasn't me doing the asking (it was me declining, however.) MANY men wish to be married ~ maybe it just holds NO value to you.

~OT~ I'm pro-marriage. Even if it isn't something that means anything to be me (personally) today. There are many benefits today for "domestic partners" that simply didn't exist 10 + years ago, so for me? It seems like a moot point. However, for those who find value in the "contractual" side of a union, I think that's exactly what they should do. There's nothing wrong with marriage or the marriage-minded. There is however, something serious wrong with people that don't realize that just because they don't find value in marriage, that no one should. JMO
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 332
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 9:46:10 AM

Why? If you're gonna check my profile, check my age as well. My 'kids' are 35 and 38. I am not a custodial parent. And I've lived in AZ a grand total of 5 weeks - barely. This is not where I raised my family.


No problem the laws are on this are the same as the Supreme Court is the one that has ruled on this.

No state may connect visitation to child support.


http://www.child-support-laws-state-by-state.com/alaska-child-support.html



The Separate Entities that Are Child Support Visitation Rights
The Main concern of most parents across the globe is child support being paid and visitation rights being granted. This is especially true for parents who bring up their child at a distance. However, you can rest assured that child support visitation rights are completely and totally separate and one never impinges on the other. The absent parent would require applying to the court separately to gain visitation rights. In case, this happens, the court will take into account any relevant past history that could well preclude any visitation rights being awarded to the absent parent.


As I said blather



Geez, now men are finally getting a taste of what it was like for women in the early 1930's, 40's, 50's and 60's. Remember your history when it was typical for a man to have a wife and children at home and a mistress in an apartment that he was paying for from the family bank account.




Well now, who can argue with history... I mean YOUR history.

Your "typical" is about 1-2% of men... same as it is today.


If 1-2% is typical then the coming stats must be a epidermic.

70% of all divorces are filed by women.....45% of the women that use no fault within a year had wished they never filed and would gladly go back to their husband if he would have her back.

18% of children born in a monogamous marriage are not the fathers children.

Humm 1-2% doesn't look so bad now does it?

There is no gender that is better than the other. It is simply people that are good or bad.

The current laws favor the female gender. However there are many things you can do to actually make a unfortunate divorce truly equal.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 333
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 10:11:07 AM
I know a guy that married a second time he had a very lucrative store. He died an untimely death w/o a will and the second wife didn't give his son anything. Sold off the store and now his only son will never get anything from his fathers life of work.


from divorcenet;



The intestacy law says that if you die married with children, half your estate goes to your surviving spouse, and half goes to your children. This rule, however, does not apply to joint tenancy and tenancy-by-the-entirety property which goes at death directly to the surviving spouse as a matter of law. It also does not apply to retirement benefits and life insurance, which go directly to the chosen recipient by beneficiary designation. However, intestacy law does affect people with “probate” assets, i.e., assets titled in their own name who did not execute a last will and testament.
italics mine, to distinguish from quotes from other posters here.

Also, this on the same page of the website-regarding prenups(PNA)


These financial and estate planning issues can drive a wedge between the parties to the new marriage, causing unhappiness, and eventually divorce. This is not a good outcome for a solvable problem.

Some parties choose to take care of these issues by entering into a prenuptial agreement (PNA) prior to the marriage. In the past, PNAs were considered legally unenforceable, as creating dissension and strife between the to-be-married couples right before the marriage. It is true that PNAs can be coercive and lead to unfair bargaining and inequitable agreements. Can you imagine a fiancé giving you a draft of a PNA a week prior to the marriage, after a large wedding has been planned and all invitations sent? This has actually happened to people. Most attorneys believe that there is a substantial uncertainty whether a PNA executed under these circumstances would be upheld by a court.

Generally, a PNA is held to be valid if entered into freely and voluntarily by the parties, if each party was vigorously represented by a lawyer as advocate, and if the PNA was fair when executed. It also requires that the terms of the PNA turn out to be fair at the time the parties divorce.
(again, italics mine to distinguish from forum quotes]

It is certainly not my intention here to BLAME your deceased acquaintance or EXCUSE the 2nd wife...but people who have accumulated any assets or asset-generating business concerns need to consult mutually with an attorney for estate planning and asset management guidance.

And the second quote from divorcenet simply is to point out that a prenup(PNA) may NOT be the nuclear weapon that some want to believe it is.



The roof is metal with a 50 warranty with 48 or so years left.

This may be the scenario in YOUR(mjyawn) situation, but deliberate delays or substandard work ARE tactics that have been used by resentful heirs in life estate/life lease matters.

Broken picker, IMO.
Doesn't mean that EVERYONE'S picker is broken and therefore divorce,requiring that divorce and family law need to be overhauled.


That is your opinion. The women in the ABC story all agree with my after loosing 50% of their assets to the hubby's.

In this specific instant, since you keep making this topic about YOU and your situation, I WAS being specific...the broken picker referred to IS yours! I think you knew that and used "the women in the ABC story" to evade the point.

Hence the new 50% rules, child support, alimony, pension, etc.. Now it is worth your while.

No, it is now equal protection. And men certainly do have the right to negotiate privately or petition the court for custody of minor children. The court will decide based on the best interests of the chld(ren).

Because, speaking to the full span of history, equal opportunity statutes as applied to women, are still fairly new, it often transpires that the woman has earned less. And in the case of the stay-home wife, her contributions to the accumulation of assets is considered to be equally as valuable, because in theory it takes the place of paid childcare, housework, cooking and concierge services. Let me hasten to add that this same 50% rule covers stay-at-home dads.The 50% rule reflects the concept that the married couple acquire assets by TEAMWORK.
One of the unspoken driving forces behind women's push for equal opportunity was to give women a better chance to safeguard against poverty in the case of absconding, improvident, disabled or deceased husband.


You see, married men usually got jobs quicker than single men......employers were pretty discriminatory about things like that back then too.



You are right. They did get jobs quicker - like mining jobs, shining shoes, etc.. Basically jobs that no one really wanted to do.

Actually, married men were viewed as more likely to be stable, responsible and reliable.As recently as the early 70s, when there was a recession of sorts going on, I had a couple of experiences with job application/interview processes where I was directly told that even with all OTHER things being equal, the employer felt obligated to give hiring preference to MEN with families to support.

Word of advice for everyone..... everyone should have a Revocable Trust, or Irrevocable Trust. If you do not have one, then it's the expired person's fault.
Even if participants in this thread take nothing else away from it-THIS is an invaluable piece of advice!

From a business standpoint, the higher up in the pecking order you are, the better off you are being single, especially if you own a part of the company. The risk of a divorce is a liability for pretty much everyone involved.

this may be true NOW, in some instances. But in many cases, being married is STILL considered evidence of greater stability, responsibility and reliability.
Cindy O
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 334
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 10:32:50 AM
Maybe in the world you live in. I've been asked to get married 3 times since becoming single 11 years ago. It wasn't me doing the asking (it was me declining, however.)

That's because men -generally- do the asking. That is part of the custom. However it is still by and large women (and those women's families) that put the pressure on men to do said asking. Your 3 instances don't disprove anything.



There is however, something serious wrong with people that don't realize that just because they don't find value in marriage, that no one should.


- 50% divorce rate.
- 10% of -still- married couples are unhappy.
- a LARGE number of those who got divorced have zero desire to get married again.
-those who are hopelessly on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th marriages.
-the court system can , and often does ruin your life during a divorce. On average, people lose 75% of their net worth.

-Articles like this where even LAWYERS say that those who are well-to-do shouldn't get married. (so I guess if you're poor and have no ambition to achieve any sort of greatness, then you're alright. Lolz)
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article725300.ece

-Articles that show how staying single is on the rise. 35% back in 1950, and 51% as of 2005.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/16/us/16census.html

Perhaps these people don't believe that "no one should" get married, but marriage itself is certainly on the decline for -several- good reasons. IMO, more and more people are taking their heads out of the sand.



this may be true NOW, in some instances. But in many cases, being married is STILL considered evidence of greater stability, responsibility and reliability.

seeing how we live in the "now," it has relevance.

Greater stability, responsibility, and reliability? However women of child bearing age are hired ALL the time. I kind of like how the military approaches it (or how the did last time I checked). You either get discharged or you get 90 days off once you've had your child and then you're back to full active duty. (but that can be saved for another thread).
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 335
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 10:47:06 AM
this may be true NOW, in some instances. But in many cases, being married is STILL considered evidence of greater stability, responsibility and reliability.


When equating the above to the corporate world, that was more true when businesses treated their employess as part of a corporate family and concessions were freely made to those who had to work around their spouse and children. The workplace has changed drastically, along with the reasons for getting and staying married, since the historical dates people keep referring to in the "good ol' days". Businesses are in the business of making money more than ever - the bottom line means more than does the people employed in order to obtain the big bucks - and are more interested now if both men and women are able to spend longer hours at the job, not be interrupted by child care/spousal issues, and have the freedom to travel and change job locations at the drop of a hat. They, therefore, tend to hire based on that freedom. So, as far as the corporate world is concerned, I think the position has changed over the years as to whether or not being married is still considered evidence of GREATER stability, responsibility and reliability - at least as far as the the corporate world is concerned. Joe Public and small business may view it somewhat differently but I believe that has changed as well.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 336
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 10:57:24 AM

Joe Public and small business may view it somewhat differently but I believe that has changed as well.

This is the perspective I was largely speaking of, but I have also witnessed the changing corporate culture you speak of , and the shift to putting the "bottom line" above all other considerations, including recognizing staff/employees as people-and I certainly can't disagree with you there.
But if we look back at the post which started this line of discussion, I think that it was "the past /good old days" being referenced. I still think that there are occupations and employment situations where being married is at least a theoretical plus( I'm thinking ministers/pastors, male school teachers, and haven most of our US Presidents been married men?)
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 337
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 11:03:57 AM
Even if participants in this thread take nothing else away from it-THIS is an invaluable piece of advice!



I only like to give pearls of wisdom to others, so they might do some good with it. There is still a lot of bitterness in people from prior relationships. I don't blame anyone who got the short end of the stick. But how long do you think it will take to get past the grieving process? Some of us are wasting the best years of our lives. Oh well.....
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 338
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 11:13:43 AM
But if we look back at the post which started this line of discussion, I think that it was "the past /good old days" being referenced. I still think that there are occupations and employment situations where being married is at least a theoretical plus( I'm thinking ministers/pastors, male school teachers, and haven most of our US Presidents been married men?)


Yes, you did reference your experiences which took place approximately 40 years ago, but that's part of the problem when debating this topic. The past no longer applies. So much has changed even in those past 40 years that the reasons for getting "legally" married, as per the title of this thread, has made it so there is really no legal reason for marriage itself - other laws/legal contracts have made it unnecessary. I know you, Cindo O, realize that, as is made evident by many of your postings. So, in essence, really, there is no longer reason for getting "legally" married, but in today's world, it's more a case of emotional/spiritual reasons for getting married. As far as the spirtual reasons, with more and more people turning their backs on religion, that's becoming even less of a reason for marriage.

vvvvv That's, ideally, the way it should be but isn't for the majority of companies today. I think they are slowly recognizing the error of their ways and you can see the tide turning. They will be the companies that thrive over the long haul. You see slow emergence of company day cares, on-site gyms, rest periods, etc. modelled after some of the thriving Asian and other companies who have adopted the "corporate family" attitude. However, that still doesn't mean that marriage, itself, makes the company believe an employee is more realiable, stable, etc.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 339
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 11:17:29 AM
^^^^ I'm currently working in a male-dominated industry and in my office most of the staff is under 40. Married or not seems to make no difference in terms of hiring or promotion. The company is supportive of families and for those with young families, traveling is kept to a minimum. Some of the guys have SAHM wives, some have left when their wife's career required a move; if circumstances permit down the road, these guys are welcome back. Most of the guys I work with take an active role in their family life, so it seems to me that younger families these days are learning to create balance between work and family and an actual partnership.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 340
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 11:29:02 AM

it's more a case of emotional/spiritual reasons for getting married.

I completely agree with you.
I am neither pro or anti marriage, and I have often spoken of the idea that perhaps more mature individuals who have acquired assets,may have have children and perhaps grandchildren, have forged an individual lifestyle, might be better served to consider a non-cohabiting, less interwoven committed and monogamous relationship, and cover any joint ventures ,or joint ownership of large ticket items with partnership documentation.
However, when it comes to young people who want to have children, I still would rather see the committment made official. I know that many of the possible issues that can arise could be covered by other laws and legal contracts, but I'm thinking of the emotional and spiritual aspects, I guess.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 341
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 12:45:44 PM

I know that many of the possible issues that can arise could be covered by other laws and legal contracts, but I'm thinking of the emotional and spiritual aspects, I guess.


Yes that is wonderful ideals however the current divorce laws co-mingle the emotional and spiritual aspects with the financial aspects.

So if emotional and spiritual are the reasons you think marriage is a good idea why are you so against financial protection of the one with the most assets?

You call the adultery laws I used to keep from loosing my assets.


how is taking advantage of a little-used law on the books to "beat" your divorcing partner out of a fair settlement,


Yes..."little used"........However just like the archaic laws that give favor to a whole gender, it is still a law.

It wasn't like she didn't have a choice she could have taken it to open court and asked for her settlement.

Of course the law would allow me to show why she didn't deserve it. Showing what kind of person she truly is.

What is the difference in me using the law in my favor and the millions of women using the law to theirs when they can?

The really funny thing is the safeguards I suggest protect the one with the most assets they don't protect a gender. As do the family court laws.

There is other threads on here where women ask why is it so hard to find a mature gentleman willing to marry. One gives many of the reason brought up in this thread, financial.

With the stats posted about people remaining single more it would suggest many are waking up to the hazards of marriage and the very real chance of divorce wrecking their assets.

If marriage was solely based on emotional and spiritual reasons I suspect there would be a much lower divorce rate.
 weathervanes
Joined: 3/31/2010
Msg: 342
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 1:01:55 PM
^^^^^^^If marriage was solely based on emotional and spiritual reasons I suspect there would be a much lower divorce rate.
--------------------------------------------------

This is the best statement of the whole thread, marriage started a downward spiral when it became a "legal contract" with govt. at all levels dictating the terms of settlement between two adults.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 343
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 1:16:26 PM

If marriage was solely based on emotional and spiritual reasons I suspect there would be a much lower divorce rate.

Those are two of the most overpowering reasons many first enter into marriage (with obvious financial thoughts at least in the backs of their minds as well - it would be crazy to believe that all that's thought of by either partner is all lovey dovey stuff, whether those thoughts are to share resources or nefarious ulterior motives). It's when the lovey dovey stuff becomes secondary when they get to the stage of thinking of divorce that those financial aspects rear their ugly heads - aka self-preservation along with a whole bunch of greed and vindictiveness. As non-lovey dovey as it may sound, both parties to the "contract" are likely better off clearing the financial aspects of the matter prior to marriage, before wedding plans are even made. At least then you get a clearer picture of the person you're about to tie yourself too, be it good, bad or ugly. Then you can determine if you still wish to carry on with the emotional/spiritual contract of marriage. That's pretty much what mjyawn is doing. His terms may not be palatable to a great many women, but at the very least they know where they stand going in...if they chose to go in at all.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 344
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 4:04:22 PM

why are you so against financial protection of the one with the most assets?

I'm not-indeed in several of my posts I have STATED that I am NOT against pre-nups. It's obsession with pre-nups, and coercive tactics I have a problem with. I believe that pre-nups should be worked out,with BOTH parties having competent representation/advice, by the couple involved...not one prospective spouse slapping down a multi-page pre-written document and demanding that their intended sign it ot else.

However just like the archaic laws that give favor to a whole gender, it is still a law.

Huh? No-fault divorce,50/50 split of marital assets, provisions for the well-being of any minor children, that gives favor to a whole gender-HOW??? Truth be told, from what I hear lately, it's who has the sharpest lawyer and the greatest audacity that gets "favored"



It wasn't like she didn't have a choice she could have taken it to open court and asked for her settlement.
Yeah, I bet.Coercion isn't always about direct physical force-"a gun held to their head". I am speaking here of various instances I've heard about,observed or witnessed at close hand, not just one specific case.

Showing what kind of person she truly is.

I rest my case.
It's supposed to be about a fair settlement of assets that a married couple have acquired working as a team, not about what kind of person they are, or what wrongdoing they engaged in. If that were the case, divorce of an abusive spouse would leave the abuser with only the clothes he or she stands up in.

There is other threads on here where women ask why is it so hard to find a mature gentleman willing to marry. One gives many of the reason brought up in this thread, financial.

With the stats posted about people remaining single more it would suggest many are waking up to the hazards of marriage and the very real chance of divorce wrecking their assets.

I am well aware of the threads, the statistics and the danger of spending one's old age alone,AND in financial straits due to a gold-digging spouse and/ or a divorce from same. I can tell you that I have witnessed the same thing happening to mature women with good assets.

If marriage was solely based on emotional and spiritual reasons I suspect there would be a much lower divorce rate.
I can also attest to many couples I know that have 30+ year marriages,where I am sure that is the case,but in many of them, the couple ALSO started out on reasonably equal socioeconomic footing.

As non-lovey dovey as it may sound, both parties to the "contract" are likely better off clearing the financial aspects of the matter prior to marriage, before wedding plans are even made. At least then you get a clearer picture of the person you're about to tie yourself too, be it good, bad or ugly. Then you can determine if you still wish to carry on with the emotional/spiritual contract of marriage.

Abso-freakinlutely. If it wasn't for my aversion to having the government all up in people's personal business any more than it already is, I'd be advocating that the prospective couple be required to present an "exit strategy" outlining financial and parental plans in case of divorce, before they could obtain a marriage license.

That's pretty much what mjyawn is doing. His terms may not be palatable to a great many women, but at the very least they know where they stand going in...if they chose to go in at all.
also a point I've been trying to make. It's not the pre-nup, it's the fact that it is all pre-written,and it sounds to me like many women would find it too controlling and too many cracks that their socioeconomic well being could fall through in the event of him developing an illness affecting his mental competency,or his death.
JMO, of course.
Cindy O
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 345
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 4:22:07 PM

No, it is now equal protection.


Protection? LOL! You're right, marriage ain't about love, but protection... for the woman.

Equal? Please! I know the extend of your intellectual power. You know sh*t about equally to be making the equal claim. Just trying to be factual. No hard feelings.



And in the case of the stay-home wife, her contributions to the accumulation of assets is considered to be equally as valuable, because in theory it takes the place of paid childcare, housework, cooking and concierge services.


Precisely. It's considered equal. It isn't equal.

If you want to begin to understand equality, look at the way nature and the animal kingdom operates... hint: no contracts, no protection, no guarantees of any kind.



Let me hasten to add that this same 50% rule covers stay-at-home dads.


A rule that 90% of men never get to use. But yes, technically, it is there. Hurray!



The 50% rule reflects the concept that the married couple acquire assets by TEAMWORK.


Horseshit on stick with a pretty bow.

Clearly a company earns its money through the many employes it has, including the guy sweeping the floors, but yet the CEO gets paid MORE.

A clear example of TEAMWORK, but not 50/50 profit split.

Who was the mother f*cker who preached this bullshit in the first place? Where are the arguments to backup this bullshit?

Something doesn't add up. Something stinks.



One of the unspoken driving forces behind women's push for equal opportunity was to give women a better chance to safeguard against poverty in the case of absconding, improvident, disabled or deceased husband.


You know what safeguards against poverty? Wits and hard work... and yes, that includes manual labor... sometimes harsh manual labor - of which women are not too fond of, and some are just too pretty for it - so one woman told me.



That's because men -generally- do the asking.


You got that right... and generally = 95% of the time.

The men who think women don't want marriage do this:

Go home tonight and tell your girlfriend (hopefully not imaginary) you never want to get married.

I have done this, so I know the answer. If there ain't a ring in sight, she ain't going to be around for long... regardless of what she says when you tell her.



-the court system can , and often does ruin your life during a divorce. On average, people lose 75% of their net worth.


That's the whole point... slaves who have money don't work, or work as hard. And there is always work, and someone has to do it. More slaves are always needed.



ok...it's settled then. Mandatory pre-nuptuals with two totally different, unrelated lawyers seeing to the best interests of each party sounds like the plan, with a judge making sure those two lawyers are still seeing to the best interests of each of their clients (which is what's done in Canada or at least in my province upon divorce, no matter how nice you're trying to be with each other). We'll call it the PMPD contract (Pre-Marital Pre-Divorce contract). While we're at it though, we better make it mandatory for anyone considering getting hitched to take personal financial courses with at least a 90% grade and documented proof that you have your own accounts and one set up ahead of time that's joint for wedding/household/child rearing expenses. Then, if the couple is of child bearing years, whether or not they say they want kids, make it mandatory for them to take a rigorous parenting course that continues on with yearly testing if they DO have kids - paid for from each of their own accounts (this would be like yearly vehicle registration but would be yearly child rearing education training and registration). I figure by the time all the legal wrangling is completed, all the money is spent on lawyers, and the pre-marriage child rearing courses are taken, everyone will be too broke and too old to either want to or afford to get married in the first place - problem solved. In the event you reach the ripe old age of 85, THEN you can get married and the child rearing courses are waived.


Where do I sign?

I mean, lets petition the government to make this process mandatory and replace marriage with it.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 346
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 4:29:03 PM
ok...it's settled then. Mandatory pre-nuptuals with two totally different, unrelated lawyers seeing to the best interests of each party sounds like the plan, with a judge making sure those two lawyers are still seeing to the best interests of each of their clients (which is what's done in Canada or at least in my province upon divorce, no matter how nice you're trying to be with each other). We'll call it the PMPD contract (Pre-Marital Pre-Divorce contract). While we're at it though, we better make it mandatory for anyone considering getting hitched to take personal financial courses with at least a 90% grade and documented proof that you have your own accounts and one set up ahead of time that's joint for wedding/household/child rearing expenses. Then, if the couple is of child bearing years, whether or not they say they want kids, make it mandatory for them to take a rigorous parenting course that continues on with yearly testing if they DO have kids - paid for from each of their own accounts (this would be like yearly vehicle registration but would be yearly child rearing education training and registration). I figure by the time all the legal wrangling is completed, all the money is spent on lawyers, and the pre-marriage child rearing courses are taken, everyone will be too broke and too old to either want to or afford to get married in the first place - problem solved. In the event you reach the ripe old age of 85, THEN you can get married and the child rearing courses are waived.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 347
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 4:47:21 PM

I'm not-indeed in several of my posts I have STATED that I am NOT against pre-nups. It's obsession with pre-nups, and coercive tactics I have a problem with. I believe that pre-nups should be worked out,with BOTH parties having competent representation/advice, by the couple involved...not one prospective spouse slapping down a multi-page pre-written document and demanding that their intended sign it ot else.


Please show one place where I have said she wouldn't have some say so in the pre nup.
I can show you many posts of mine where I have said she could make suggestions and if they are reasonable we would put them in.

Again an attempt to spin my words.


Huh? No-fault divorce,50/50 split of marital assets, provisions for the well-being of any minor children, that gives favor to a whole gender-HOW??? Truth be told, from what I hear lately, it's who has the sharpest lawyer and the greatest audacity that gets "favored"


Of course I can even go back and find where women admit the divorce laws favor their gender.


Yeah, I bet.Coercion isn't always about direct physical force-"a gun held to their head". I am speaking here of various instances I've heard about,observed or witnessed at close hand, not just one specific case.


You accuse me of coercion by using a "little used" law and then say it wasn't just about my case.
Sure seemed you were talking to me when you quoted me.


I rest my case.
It's supposed to be about a fair settlement of assets that a married couple have acquired working as a team, not about what kind of person they are, or what wrongdoing they engaged in. If that were the case, divorce of an abusive spouse would leave the abuser with only the clothes he or she stands up in.


Really?..... fair settlement?.......What was fair about her cheating and breaking her wedding vows.......What was fair about her keeping a 100k life insurance policy on me for a year after we divorced telling her agent when she quit paying it......Well I guess he's not going to do what her first husband did. (he shot himself she received a large insurance pay out on that.

As far as an abuser getting nothing I'm good with that.


I am well aware of the threads, the statistics and the danger of spending one's old age alone,AND in financial straits due to a gold-digging spouse and/ or a divorce from same. I can tell you that I have witnessed the same thing happening to mature women with good assets.


I am sure they are women that have suffered from the archaic laws currently guiding settlements.

All the more reason to revise them or to advocate personal protection.


I can also attest to many couples I know that have 30+ year marriages,where I am sure that is the case,but in many of them, the couple ALSO started out on reasonably equal socioeconomic footing.


This supports my hypothesis that if there is no jackpot for one of the people divorcing there is less reason for divorce.
Thanks for helping me make that point.


Abso-freakinlutely. If it wasn't for my aversion to having the government all up in people's personal business any more than it already is, I'd be advocating that the prospective couple be required to present an "exit strategy" outlining financial and parental plans in case of divorce, before they could obtain a marriage license.


Actually I would rather them regulate it that way than the way it is now.


also a point I've been trying to make. It's not the pre-nup, it's the fact that it is all pre-written,and it sounds to me like many women would find it too controlling and too many cracks that their socioeconomic well being could fall through in the event of him developing an illness affecting his mental competency,or his death.
JMO, of course.


Again fallacious logic. There is many safeguards in it for the lady. Also she has to have her own attorney to advise her on the pre nup or it is not valid. and if she finds it too controlling then she doesn't have to sign it.

Besides it is just one stop gap in my protection of assets. Remember if her assets/earning is more than mine she is offered the same protection as I.

Taking away what I see as the major reason for divorce today.

And as far as the stats on the 1950's being the start of women using divorce as a means to a end. Check the facts in 1860 the laws were changed to allow women to divorce their husbands. That year the divorces started by women eclipsed the filing of men and has not changed since that year.

When no fault was standardized the gap jumped even further.

Being ready and willing to address these issues before the marriage is truly a reasonable way of taking the money out of the marriage so only the emotional and spiritual aspects of it are a concern.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 348
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 4:56:14 PM

Horseshit on stick with a pretty bow.

In your opinion. have you ever been a woman, or worked with families going through a divorce.
I don't know who the hell peed in your cornflakes, but its men with your level of anger, resentment and damage that make women think twice about dating.

I have done this, so I know the answer. If there ain't a ring in sight, she ain't going to be around for long... regardless of what she says when you tell her.

You might be surprised to find that many mature women DON'T want marriage, they don't want to live together, they don't want your stuff.
Gawd, what is it with some of you guys...do you feel in your heart that you have NOTHING a woman would want you for, except to get your money and stuff?
Do you understand that this says more about YOU than it does about them??
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 349
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 5:20:16 PM

where I have said she could make suggestions and if they are reasonable we would put them in.

Wh
And of course it's YOU who decides what "reasonable"is, right?

Really?..... fair settlement?.......What was fair about her cheating and breaking her wedding vows.......

Here is the real core issue,IMO. You are attempting to use money to "get even" for a deep emotional hurt-again, that is my opinion. Divorce and settlements are about ending a marriage that has broken down, dividing the assets via a formula that the family/civil law system has deemed fair, and it is meant to prevent anyone in the broken family from being destitute and a charge on the State for survival. Don't cry to the forum,we didn't write the policies. Those who are here all but DIGESTING themselves over how unfair divorce is to men, fer Pete's sake, become an activist for divorce law reform.

This supports my hypothesis that if there is no jackpot for one of the people divorcing there is less reason for divorce.
Thanks for helping me make that point.

No, the points I was making involve the part that emotion and spiritual play in a sound marriage, and that perhaps people would be better served to marry within the same socioeconomic background. Thanks for twisting/spinning MY words.

Taking away what I see as the major reason for divorce today.

It's generally held that money is one of the 3 things commonly argued about, and a FACTOR in divorce. But people get divorced because they no longer love one another enough to continue the marriage...the marriage has irretrievably broken down.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 350
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/6/2011 5:39:54 PM

In your opinion. have you ever been a woman, or worked with families going through a divorce.


I have had friends, and relatives, of both genders, go through a divorce. Emotional-wise, not a pretty picture on either side. Financially, most men got raped. The funny part is that the women who's sons got financially castrated knew and understood the injustice done to their sons, for it is they who first brought the injustice to my attention, but did nothing about it.



I don't know who the hell peed in your cornflakes, but its men with your level of anger, resentment and damage that make women think twice about dating.


In other words, you can't backup the bullshit you preach. No surprise here.



You might be surprised to find that many mature women DON'T want marriage, they don't want to live together, they don't want your stuff.


You be surprised how wrong you are.



Gawd, what is it with some of you guys...do you feel in your heart that you have NOTHING a woman would want you for, except to get your money and stuff?


Forgive me if I not as naive as you'd like me to be. When the love is gone, the only thing left in a divorce is money and stuff.

Women (at least some) make it about money and stuff. Not me. I'm just the side commentator. The guy who points out the inconsistencies, the double standards, the hypocrisy.



Do you understand that this says more about YOU than it does about them??


There are more important things in life than to suck-up to women.

But please, do share! What does it say about me? No, really, I do care about someone else's option of me.
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