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 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 426
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 18 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)

Yawn, I agree, your pre-nup is absolutely fine for the lady and for you. I actually thought you were attacking what I'd written just because, but I see now you are feeling quite misunderstood so I apologize for contributing to that. I am sure that your lady, when you find her, will be very happy with this arrangement, and I wish you and she the very best.


Thank you and I have no problem with any agreement two people decide for themselves.
Wither it is a pre nup or the letting the current laws decide to divide assets.

It should be up to the two people involved.


All I can say is that I'm getting married not entering into a business relationship, so whatever it is, it is. People are welcome to argue about pre-nups and all sorts of other plans for divorce, but I'm not going to go into a marriage with a plan for getting a divorce. If I was going to do that, I'd just as soon not be in a relationship at all.


I don't get in my truck or on my bike expecting to have a wreck either and take every precaution to avoid them by being careful.

Yet I have insurance on both in case a wreck is unavoidable.

As far as for the other blather posted why is it such a concern to these posters? They claim they are not against them yet they still post blather.

It seems they can't debate the points w/o accusing a gender of being fearful.

Which brings us to the outdated laws some seem to think a entire gender has a problem with them while the other gender is happy.

Lets say that is true.
If an entire gender is seeing a problem and the other not,wouldn't that support the idea that the laws favor one gender over the other?

What gets me is these posters have tried to show problems with my ideas point to point and when they make no headway there they resort to blather,to white wash the fact they couldn't defeat the idea on merit.


Argumentum ad hominem - An argument against the man. Directing an argument against an opponent's character rather than the subject at hand
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 427
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 1:01:03 PM

All I can say is that I'm getting married not entering into a business relationship, so whatever it is, it is. People are welcome to argue about pre-nups and all sorts of other plans for divorce, but I'm not going to go into a marriage with a plan for getting a divorce. If I was going to do that, I'd just as soon not be in a relationship at all.

Admirable, and I hope that you never show up on these forums bemoaning women and the system. I think the stats are on your side: about 50% of marriages do not end in divorce, and of those that do, only 4% go to trial. The remaining 96% are settled by agreement; about half of those agreements are reached by the couple on their own, and the other half require involvment by a third party. http://www.strategicdivorceplanners.com/
http://www.sammargulies.com/articles/what_your_divorce_lawyer_doesnt_tell_you.html
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 428
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 2:12:43 PM

think the stats are on your side: about 50% of marriages do not end in divorce, and of those that do, only 4% go to trial. The remaining 96% are settled by agreement; about half of those agreements are reached by the couple on their own, and the other half require involvment by a third party. http://www.strategicdivorceplanners.com/
http://www.sammargulies.com/articles/what_your_divorce_lawyer_doesnt_tell_you.html


Wow,4ums! That is fascinating information!
I mean, I knew about the 50% rate for marriage sucess, marriage failure...definitely a TRUE glass half full/half empty situation,depending on how one chooses to view it.

But the fact that only 4% of the marriages that end in divorce go into the (generally)adversarial process of a trial, that is really an eye-opener when considered alongside the impression I get from these forums-an impression that every dissolution of marriage ends up in a trial and somebody getting royally screwed over. I realize that many divorced people are not happy with the division of assets and responsibilities for child custody and support(where applicable)-and quite frankly, sometimes the complaints seem very slanted and/or nit-picky. I was aware, in a general "what I hear these days" manner, that there seemed to be an effort made by those connected with the "divorce industry"especially the judicial sector, to encourage mediation as "involvement of a 3rd party". But that 4% figure...wow. It makes one inclined to see this thread and similar ones as tempests in a teapot.
"Blather"=points that someone cannot disprove, so attempts to discredit. It is entirely possible to support or agree with a principle at issue,yet be cognizant of-or have an opinion about, the other side of said issue, to weigh and discuss the pros of the cons and the cons of the pros.It's called looking at the bigger picture,but for those whose vision is obscured by a belief that they have been hard done by in the course of their particular human events,perhaps seeing the bigger picture just isn't possible.Rather than consider that possibility,some of those individuals want to yap like agitated lap dogs at the people who CAN look at a bigger picture.

What I'm seeing here, in terms of numbers and percentages, is that 48% of divorcing couples manage to work out the monetary and child custody issues on their own, another 48% need assistance from a 3rd party, but only 4% actually go to trial for custody,child/spousal support(where applicable),and asset division. wow, that's different than the overall impression one might take from this and similar threads that suggest
EVERY divorce is a legal battle from the 7th circle of Hell.

I see that your sources are both a female AND a male consultant/mediator. Which avoids the accusation of posting incorrect facts from misandrist websites-good job.
Cindy O
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 429
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 2:15:25 PM

But this bashing of genders, marriage , and divorce/asset division laws based on the ASSumption that one gender is getting away with legal piracy due to "biased" laws, seems to be becoming a common OBSESSION with the other gender.


Frankly, it's getting to be pretty sad and tells more about the poster than their actual words do.

Me and my group are not even fond of being friends with people who are so biased and hypervigilant about this, yet continue to deny that they are.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 430
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 2:59:15 PM

Frankly, it's getting to be pretty sad and tells more about the poster than their actual words do.

Me and my group are not even fond of being friends with people who are so biased and hypervigilant about this, yet continue to deny that they are.



Argumentum ad hominem - An argument against the man. Directing an argument against an opponent's character rather than the subject at hand


Seems as the thread is going off topic to me and the ones that claim to see the big picture are the ones trying to divert the thread.

If they can see the big picture then they would concentrate on the topic and not bashing the posters that have a different view that theirs. And if their points are so factual and persuasive then why do they not stick to them?

48% agree on a split of assets on the own. Out of that 48% do you think everyone is tickled pink about the division? I doubt it.

Another 48% go to arbitration that in itself shows no one is going to be happy with the settlement. It just means a middle ground of dissatisfaction was obtained.

The final 4% has to go to trial. No one happy here but the attorneys.

So 52% need another party be it a mediator or a judge to settle the divorce settlement,and we can be assured most out of the 48% that worked it out for themselves were not 100% happy with it.

So it would be safe to say a high percentage of people are unhappy with the settlement.
We know it is above 50% for sure.

Now lets look at if a settlement was per arranged before marriage. Seeing as they agreed to this while no animosity was between them they should be happy with the agreement they made.

If they stick to it no one has to get involved they just go by the agreement. That was made with no one angry or bitter. This would save paying anyone else to be the go between.

That seems much simpler to me. Also cheaper.

I think there is some animosity about the discussion of ideas that could help people from getting raked over the coals.
About changing the status quo that is outdated and needs overhauling.

Wouldn't it be great if we could discuss the issues instead of bashing the posters?
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 431
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 3:20:14 PM

Who in the WORLD wants a marriage that resembles nothing so much as an UNfriendly game of Monopoly???


Exactly my thoughts too..........except that it reminds me more of an UNFRIENDLY
game of Poker.

People seem to change their mind in about every 2nd or 3rd post that they make in this thread............about what they would negotiate in the pre-nup.

The only thing this thread proves is that everything is negotiable between 2 people in a relationship, who are living under the same roof. So it would seem that the only skills those 2 people need are good negotiating and communicating skills and of course a good poker face helps too.

>>>>>
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 432
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 3:21:20 PM
Who in the WORLD wants a marriage that resembles nothing so much as an UNfriendly game of Monopoly???


Exactly my thoughts too..........except that it reminds me more of an UNFRIENDLY
game of Poker.

People seem to change their mind in about every 2nd or 3rd post that they make in this thread............about what they would negotiate in the pre-nup.

The only thing this thread proves is that everything is negotiable between 2 people in a relationship, who are living under the same roof. So it would seem that the only skills those 2 people need are good negotiating and communicating skills and of course a good poker face helps too.

>>>>>
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 433
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 3:22:37 PM
Who in the WORLD wants a marriage that resembles nothing so much as an UNfriendly game of Monopoly???


Exactly my thoughts too..........except that it reminds me more of an UNFRIENDLY
game of Poker.

People seem to change their mind in about every 2nd or 3rd post that they make in this thread............about what they would negotiate in the pre-nup.

The only thing this thread proves is that everything is negotiable between 2 people in a relationship, who are living under the same roof. So it would seem that the only skills those 2 people need are good negotiating and communicating skills and of course a good poker face helps too.

Geez, sorry about the triple post everybody, don't know what happened there.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 434
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 3:34:44 PM

So it would be safe to say a high percentage of people are unhappy with the settlement.

I doubt anyone is happy when a marriage or any kind of a relationship ends, even aside from the material aspects. I also doubt that most of the people are really going to be "happy" about what they may believe they have lost, but the point is that they are going to feel happier about an arrangement they agreed to, rather than one foisted upon them by a judge.

Now lets look at if a settlement was per arranged before marriage. Seeing as they agreed to this while no animosity was between them they should be happy with the agreement they made.

Or maybe not; just because I think 30% is a fair figure under my particular circumstances, doesn't mean I'd be particularly happy when the time came to pay out. And, should you and your prospective wife split, is she going to be entirely happy about having to pay housing costs again?

It also depends on the people involved; my girlfriend lived with a guy for 7 years. When the relationship ended, he wanted more than 50% of the assets and he wanted her to take on all the debt. Her money had provided the downpayment for their house; they'd split the mortgage costs for those seven years. He ended up with the house and the toys, and paid less than the equity she had put into the house. She could have gotten more if she'd wanted to go to court, as well as gotten support for her kids, but she didn't want to do that. Funny thing is, he's bitter and thinks he got shafted even though he came out way ahead of where he was when they got together; she's not at all bitter, even though she "lost" about $30,000 to avoid court.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 435
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 3:52:16 PM

Alright before I get going, I would like to point out there are two aspects to marriage:

1) Ceremony, exchange of vows, and religious rites

2) Legal formalities, including blood tests, getting permission from the state, government records, per-state laws regulating dissolution (i.e. divorce)

So, the reasons for getting married in the sense of #1 should be obvious. What I would like some thoughts on, are reasons for #2.

Specifically, what are the benefits and down-sides to getting married (i.e. "legally and financially entangled") in the sense of the equivalent of signing a binding contract that is legally enforcable by the government?

Open questions:

How does the man benefit?

How does the woman benefit?

Can these benefits be obtained without getting financially and legally entangled (i.e. formal marriage in the legal sense)?

That is the topic.
Many have tried to give answers/opinions. Some have mentioned their own non-marital/non-cohabiting relationships. Some have said, it is what it is. We've had some misogynistic rants by men who probably have never been nor ever will be married,some have mentioned personal experiences that do seem to contain elements of injustice.
Some have mentioned that despite the alleged dangers, they have people in their lives that they definitely or probably are going to marry.
And we have heard detail after detail of one posters personal experiences, numbers, explanations arguments,descriptions of that one posters' PERSONAL "safeguards" against the financial reaming,although he has managed to dodge thru 2 divorces without experiencing any financial "retribution" or settlements biased in favor of women. He may have, at some point given a direct answer to the topic question,if so, I believe we've all lost sight of it.
Perhaps someone whitewashed it.
One thing is certainly evident and I hope the OP picked up on it...the legal aspects of DIVORCE are a big flashing red star-spangled hot button.
Interesting because the question asked was for discussion of reasons to get legally MARRIED-and instead seems to have gotten a seminar on divorce as though itwas a GIVEN that marriages always fail, even though statistics seem to indicate that only half of them do.
So how is it any better to go on and on and on about safeguards about divorce, when the topic question was about MARRIAGE? Granted, we have all kind of let the topic get pulled in the "horrors of divorce settlement" direction-but attempts to steer it back seem to have been about as effective as trying to stop a train-wreck with a sheet of paper towel.
There is only ONE reason to get legally married...because 2 people WANT to marry each other. Many of the benefits can be obtained without marriage...though there are still questions of insurance coverage, Social Security Survivor benefits, and the unmarried life-partner/SO having a say in medical decisions or even access to information about a partner who is in medical crisis. Yes, those can be covered with special documentation in some cases.,except SS survivor benefits-even in common-law marriage jurisdictions, the SSA does not recognize common-law. I'm not sure what the situation is in Canada, the UK,Australia. But I know this is true in the US.
As far as children, many of the matters to do with raising children can be covered by documentation without a marriage ceremony.
I guess the other thing that COULD be considered as a fairly good reason to get legally married, is to avoid one helluva lot of paperwork-in other words, saving a few trees.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 436
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 4:18:53 PM


I doubt anyone is happy when a marriage or any kind of a relationship ends, even aside from the material aspects. I also doubt that most of the people are really going to be "happy" about what they may believe they have lost, but the point is that they are going to feel happier about an arrangement they agreed to, rather than one foisted upon them by a judge.


I agree 100% if more people would think about things like this at the onset they may not be happy but they really couldn't b!tch about a split that was prearranged.


Or maybe not; just because I think 30% is a fair figure under my particular circumstances, doesn't mean I'd be particularly happy when the time came to pay out. And, should you and your prospective wife split, is she going to be entirely happy about having to pay housing costs again?


No you most likely won't be you would be happier to pay the 30% than have to do the 50% that happens if no pre nup is there.

Tell me why would it be my place to worry if she is not happy paying for her living if the marriage is irretrievably broken?

See that is my point neither gender should be responsible for the other if the relationship is over.


It also depends on the people involved; my girlfriend lived with a guy for 7 years. When the relationship ended, he wanted more than 50% of the assets and he wanted her to take on all the debt. Her money had provided the downpayment for their house; they'd split the mortgage costs for those seven years. He ended up with the house and the toys, and paid less than the equity she had put into the house. She could have gotten more if she'd wanted to go to court, as well as gotten support for her kids, but she didn't want to do that. Funny thing is, he's bitter and thinks he got shafted even though he came out way ahead of where he was when they got together; she's not at all bitter, even though she "lost" about $30,000 to avoid court.


So if they had been prudent before marriage then each would have known whom gets what. There would be less animosity and while not happy it would have been better for both.

About blather

Seeing as around 45% of first marriages end in divorce. 65% of second and 75% of thirds go down that road.

Wouldn't discussing divorce and how to avoid it and if unavoidable,making it as painless as possible a valid point of this topic?

And seeing as some here seem to think there is a chip on the shoulder of a particular gender trying to understand why that chip got to be a problem for a entire gender?

Instead of dismissing the gender as disgruntled?

From my point of view marriage is not worth the risk w/o a pre nup. Others of my gender might learn from what I have done to make it more palatable for me.

I know I have learned a lot from other posters and will use their ideas if the case ever arises that I do find the one.

I just don't see the point of some passing judgement on someone they don't know other than reading a few posts here.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 437
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 4:36:53 PM

Tell me why would it be my place to worry if she is not happy paying for her living if the marriage is irretrievably broken?

I didn't say it was your place to worry about it; I said that, even though the agreement was made prior to marriage, she might not be entirely happy about giving up a rent-free arrangement. In the same way, if you were living with her and had to return to your own home, you might be a bit sad about losing all the rental money you'd been pocketing while living in her home. Or, perhaps not. Regardless of your state of happiness at losing whatever, you are both likely to be less bitter and angry because of the agreement up front. Right?

No you most likely won't be you would be happier to pay the 30% than have to do the 50% that happens if no pre nup is there.

If it were a marriage; I'm more likely to live common-law than actually marry. If it was common-law, he'd have to have some pretty compelling evidence in order to get anything, let alone half, according to the law where I live. If we were married, he could ask for 50%, but whether or not he got it would depend on several factors, including who paid for stuff and how long the marriage lasted.

He could likely get support, whether we were common-law or married, but again how much and for how long is dependent on several factors, according to the law.


So if they had been prudent before marriage then each would have known whom gets what.

They were never married. Knowing him, I suspect that he'd not have wanted to stick to an agreement made prior, and would have been just as angry/bitter about it and made sure, in his own mind at least, that she was a conniving and greedy biatch. Having seen him through two relationships, I've come to understand that it's just who he is. But at least there'd have been less angst on her part.

And seeing as some here seem to think there is a chip on the shoulder of a particular gender trying to understand why that chip got to be a problem for a entire gender? Instead of dismissing the gender as disgruntled?

Because the disgruntled men that I've seen come across much like the femi-nazis do in picking and choosing what they'll believe as fact, how broadly they'll paint the other side, and how they'll spin everyone's realities. I don't believe femi-nazi's are indicative of the majority of women; nor do I believe the disgruntled men are indicative of the majority of men. There are, for instance, 35 men who work in my office. Most of them are married, and seem to be quite happy about that. A few of them are in marriages that are decades long. Those men, by themselves, outnumber the "disgruntled" I've come across on and offline.

I just don't see the point of some passing judgement on someone they don't know other than reading a few posts here.

Then don't do it. I suspect you believe you are lily white, but you've made some pretty negative statements about people based only on what they've written here.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 438
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 5:05:30 PM

Then don't do it. I suspect you believe you are lily white, but you've made some pretty negative statements about people based only on what they've written here.


I have only handed back what was slung at me. I promise I can keep the debate on a congenial level if not blasted by someone on a personal level.

On the rest of your post I agree.

Both genders need to act our ages and work together.We need to try and understand the others point of view and feels and both genders should be willing to make concessions to meet somewhere near the middle.

Maybe if we did there would be less need for divorce.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 439
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 9:05:09 PM

My point, simply, is that you, like most women, would NOT be HAPPY to hand over 50% of your present worth or have to pay future earnings to a past spouse.

Razzle and many women believe that they are far more magnanimous than any man is when it comes to money when a split happens and I'm calling Bullshit.

This reminded me of an excerpt from "Of Women" by Arthur Schopenhauer.


The nobler and more perfect a thing is, the later and slower it is in arriving at maturity. A man reaches the maturity of his reasoning powers and mental faculties hardly before the age of twenty-eight; a woman at eighteen. And then, too, in the case of woman, it is only reason of a sort--very niggard in its dimensions. That is why women remain children their whole life long; never seeing anything but what is quite close to them, cleaving to the present moment, taking appearance for reality, and preferring trifles to matters of the first importance. For it is by virtue of his reasoning faculty that man does not live in the present only, like the brute, but looks about him and considers the past and the future; and this is the origin of prudence, as well as of that care and anxiety which so many people exhibit. Both the advantages and the disadvantages which this involves, are shared in by the woman to a smaller extent because of her weaker power of reasoning. She may, in fact, be described as intellectually short-sighted, because, while she has an intuitive understanding of what lies quite close to her, her field of vision is narrow and does not reach to what is remote; so that things which are absent, or past, or to come, have much less effect upon women than upon men. This is the reason why women are more often inclined to be extravagant, and sometimes carry their inclination to a length that borders upon madness. In their hearts, women think that it is men's business to earn money and theirs to spend it--- if possible during their husband's life, but, at any rate, after his death. The very fact that their husband hands them over his earnings for purposes of housekeeping, strengthens them in this belief.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 440
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/9/2011 10:02:00 PM
Post 486 was very well presented. If you don't ever get married, you should take this portion of what you wrote and speak it as your own vows to each other:


I expect the relationship to be approached with the same vows defining the commitment. I expect to be holding his hand when he breathes his last, or vice versa. If I only had a dollar in my pocket then I would share that dollar with him. I expect and demand fidelity, and have no desire for any man but him. I expect to work through conflict with loving kindness and compromise rather than using it as an excuse to walk away. I expect that each conflict we work through together will make us stronger as a couple.



The best reason for getting legally married in my mind is to show the world that you are committed to succeed in this commitment, and have no fear of the downside of marriage, and as someone said way back on page one, for love.

With respect to this quote, I don't believe getting legally married is the best reason to show the world that you are committed to succeed in the commitment of love. Certainly, it's a preference for many, however, you show the world you are committed to succeed and love one another by actually succeeding and loving one another - in other words, living it, not telling everyone else you are committed - they'll see it for themselves without the need to proclaim it.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 441
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 6:16:28 AM
How does the man benefit?

How does the woman benefit?

Can these benefits be obtained without getting financially and legally entangled (i.e. formal marriage in the legal sense)?


Back to the OP...........my answer is YES, but just don't drink the KOOL-AID.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 442
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 7:26:43 AM

How does the man benefit?

How does the woman benefit?

Can these benefits be obtained without getting financially and legally entangled (i.e. formal marriage in the legal sense)?


Back to the OP...........my answer is YES, but just don't drink the KOOL-AID.


The short answer for all three questions is yes. The hard answer to find is how does a couple not only find the way but stay on it?

I may well have a broken picker as some has said here. But pray tell how do you really know if the other personal is being truthful or just setting you up.

Or that 12 years down the road that they won't be someone completely different from the person you married?

With it so easy to just walk away with no responsibility and very little repercussions, the question is not the benefit of a lifelong marriage but.....How do you get marriage to last a lifetime to reap the benefits of a marriage.

Because to me there is no benefit if if doesn't last.....In both of mine while I was no where near perfect I never broke my vows and did my best in both just to be cheated on.

The way I see it I would have been better off never marrying either of these women.

The first I write off to being young and dumb. I waited 8 years and was as careful as I could be at picking the second.

Yet she changed in the last two years of our marriage into a greedy person I hardly recognized.

So how do we do it how do we pick the one?
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 443
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 8:27:32 AM
As follows are the traditional marriage vows:

I, (name), take you, (name), to be my [opt: lawfully wedded] (husband/wife), my constant friend, my faithful partner and my love from this day forward. In the presence of God, our family and friends, I offer you my solemn vow to be your faithful partner in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, and in joy as well as in sorrow. I promise to love you unconditionally, to support you in your goals, to honor and respect you, to laugh with you and cry with you, and to cherish you for as long as we both shall live.

Couples break their vows to each other almost daily in some cases. A man who works excessively (more than 8 hours) outside of the matrimonial home breaks his vows by drinking the Kool-Aid of societies poison that money is the measure of a man/woman's success. A man who works excessively outside the home typically ignores the wants/needs of his wife and children and is breaking his vow to respect, cherish and support their goals to have the children raised of good moral character. IMO.........a man/woman's HAPPINESS IS THEIR SUCCESS, jointly and collectively.

A man/woman who chooses to cheat sexually and/or emotionally is drinking the Kool-Aid of another woman/man's poison, of which may lead to the diseased decay of the entire family.....if he/she is caught, infected with an STD or a pregnancy occurs.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 444
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 8:55:59 AM
I may well have a broken picker as some has said here. But pray tell how do you really know if the other personal is being truthful or just setting you up.

I'd have to go with the broken picker. I've never gotten married, in part because the really poor choices always washed out in a few months. Others simply didn't work out, mostly before 2 years and the one that lasted 6 years would have probably been a good marriage, but I wasn't ready to be married at that time. Another that would have probably been a good marriage didn't work out for reasons too complicated to go into here. I have very little doubt that the woman to whom I'm engaged will never be unfaithful nor end up much different who I know her to be. Then again, I have a good track record seperating people I can trust from those I can't, in general. I've been surprised by someone so few times that I can't recall anyone ever not being pretty much the person I pegged them as within a few hours or at most days of interacting with them.

Perhaps you should not look for people whose faults you can ignore and live with and instead look for people you like in spite of the faults you know they have. People are less likely to be deceptive if they know you won't judge them for doing things you would not do, in which case, they'll usually tell you things they otherwise might not.

Yet she changed in the last two years of our marriage into a greedy person I hardly recognized.

My guess is that it was there all the time. You just didn't pay enough attention to her to notice it. In general, I think (1) people want to trust the person they're with and overlook things that ought to cause one to ask if what you're being told adds up; and (2) are generally too busy to pay any attention to their partners. Being all about yourslf makes it easy to just pay no attention to what's going on.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 445
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 9:03:02 AM

Couples break their vows to each other almost daily in some cases. A man who works excessively (more than 8 hours) outside of the matrimonial home breaks his vows by drinking the Kool-Aid of societies poison that money is the measure of a man/woman's success. A man who works excessively outside the home typically ignores the wants/needs of his wife and children and is breaking his vow to respect, cherish and support their goals to have the children raised of good moral character. IMO.........a man/woman's HAPPINESS IS THEIR SUCCESS, jointly and collectively.


Well that was not a issue with me we worked the same hours I got the kids ready in the morning and they rode the bus to my shop I got them started on their home work and brought them home with me. I also normally cooked dinner and the kids cleaned up the kitchen.

My kids were washing their own clothes by 8 y/o. She had very little house work to do.

I also sold gas at the racetrack we raced at. And I mean we I had a dragster my son had a jr. dragster and I bought her a dragster as well.

I spent 22k to buy a hauler with living quarters. Think upper end RV. So we could stay at the track together as a family.

We decided to use Thursday as date night and she would normally decide how we spent that evening. No kids on Thursday.

The only bills she paid were the groceries and home light bill. ( I couldn't deduct them from my taxes)

However I paid for a "company car" insurance and gas included. Even though she didn't help me at my business.

So she was getting the better end of that deal for sure.

As I said before I NEVER BROKE MY VOWS and while not perfect I did everything humanly possible to be sure of that and be a good husband.

So back to the question. In this day of easy divorce and apathy towards the vows. How do you know if the person is gonna honor their vows as they should?
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 446
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 9:16:25 AM

Yet she changed in the last two years of our marriage into a greedy person I hardly recognized.


I'm gonna take this statement just a little bit further and you all can bash me later if that is what you choose to do.

In the last two years of the marriage, she changed into the greedy person that her husband was..........because she thought it would please him. She became the man in the mirror, the one you look at every day in your bathroom mirror..........but you have failed to recognize it.

O.K....I'm ready for my internet "arse whooping"
I think I hear Mr RoadRunner calling..........Yup......he's spotted that nasty "Wylie Coyote" again. This time he's got the "Acme Products" Human Slingshot, guaranteed to fail every time!!
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 447
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 9:24:25 AM

I'm gonna take this statement just a little bit further and you all can bash me later if that is what you choose to do.

In the last two years of the marriage, she changed into the greedy person that her husband was..........because she thought it would please him. She became the man in the mirror, the one you look at every day in your bathroom mirror..........but you have failed to recognize it.


Nice try but you would be wrong there.

She kept all of the money she made her self and was more than compensated for the two household bills we agreed she would pay. The company car she picked out (and traded at least once a year ans some years twice) and drove for free as I explained above.

She also had access to my accounts but I didn't have access to hers. She could and did spend my money but I had no way of even knowing how much she had.

No arse whopping just proof again you have no idea of what kind of person I am by a few posts in these forums.

Question stands unanswered. How do you pick the one that will honor the vows?
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 448
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 9:30:43 AM

My guess is that it was there all the time. You just didn't pay enough attention to her to notice it. In general, I think (1) people want to trust the person they're with and overlook things that ought to cause one to ask if what you're being told adds up; and (2) are generally too busy to pay any attention to their partners. Being all about yourslf makes it easy to just pay no attention to what's going on.


I think Abelian answered your question quite nicely!! Now, it is up to you to understand it.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 449
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 9:34:30 AM
So back to the question. In this day of easy divorce and apathy towards the vows. How do you know if the person is gonna honor their vows as they should?


You don't fully know. As much as you can think you know someone, they go through changes in their lives as do you. A number of factors determine those changes. For instance, there have been many happily married people who have lost a child or a number of individuals in their lives and the psychological changes that take place have them viewing life, their wants and needs differently; they've experienced a grave illness and come through it; they have experienced hormonal changes (both men and women do) which contribute to the all too familiar "mid-life crises", etc. So as much as a person can think they know someone (or even themselves) when they have lived with them for even a number of years, there are outside and internal influences that do, indeed, change their and their partner's personality. I know I'm not the same person I was even as little as 10 years ago. My own way of looking at things has changed - I've become more tolerant of some things and less tolerant of others.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 450
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/10/2011 9:45:58 AM

As I said before I NEVER BROKE MY VOWS and while not perfect I did everything humanly possible to be sure of that and be a good husband.

Ummm ... perhaps you did too much? I do not want to be unkind or to pass judgment on a situation I can know very little about other than what you write here, but I think people need to feel part of a 'team' that’s working toward something, in order to work well together and if one person is taking on more than their share, perhaps the other person comes to feel a bit unnecessary and not a full participant in the partnership?

When my sweetie and I first got together, he would come over and just kind of sit around while I did everything. Eventually, when his visits got frequent enough and I got tired of being little Miss Homemaker, I told him he had to start pitching in. At first, he really wasn’t sure what to do, but now he tells me he appreciates and values feeling part of a team, that we’re working together to each other’s benefit. He still likes me to pamper him and wait on him hand and foot now and then, but he's also more likely to do the same for me than he previously.

I was also thinking about this a couple days ago in relation to the differences in our planned pre-nups. Assuming your future wife would make a decent income, and my guy with the potential to make very little income would be paying the same or more for living expenses, it does seem that perhaps I am chintzy. I considered revising my expectation so that he would only pay some food costs, and what I came up with was that for his self-respect, he needed to pay for where he lives and contribute towards something we are building together. And, in order to benefit both of us and the relationship, I had to be willing to share with him what we had together, even though its in my name and I put in more in actual cash.

So when I read about all the things you took care of for your wives, I’m wondering if this wasn’t a factor in why they drifted out of the marriage and into someone else’s life? Of course, some people simply don’t want to do anything (my son’s first wife was like that), so only you can really determine whether my idea has any merit for you.

Also, just want to mention that back in the (perceived) good old days when marriages lasted, people weren’t necessarily more faithful but that divorce was such a non-starter that people would choose to remain with the spouse rather than split up. This may have applied to women more than men, due to lack of financial options for women, but I don’t doubt that there were many men who remained with unfaithful wives because divorce wasn’t a socially acceptable option.
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