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 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 501
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 21 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
The IRS, for one, is an example of a married couple being considered as one unit. At one time, a woman was pretty much absorbed into her husbands' identity-to the extent that any property or assets she had became his-to do with as he wished. She could not claim ownership of HIS property.


That would be a valid point if it was still like that. Today the couple has to agree to file jointly.

Either one can decide to file separate and that is the way it is done. Which renders the claim of the IRS backing "two becomes one" in marriage moot.

Of course a couple may choose to file separately.The IRS cannot FORCE a couple to file jointly. However, in my years of experience as half of a married couple with responsibility to file a 1040, it was consistently shown that in our situation-which is probably about the same as most middle-class dual income couples where the incomes were not widely disparate, that married filing separately would result in MORE taxes being owed. This was through professional independent accountant/tax-preparers-and they are also the ones who spoke of the IRS considering a married couple as one unit. Otherwise, how could the IRS hold one spouse liable for back taxes,even if there had been a divorce, or the other spouse was deceased? There is a concept the IRS "might" allow-the "innocent spouse" defense, but it is my understanding that this is a difficult thing to "prove". of course, the IRS basically wants to collect money-but this has been my understanding as I was informed by accounting and tax professionals, that a married couple is considered as one-even if they file separately, or only one spouse is involved in the preparation of the tax return and the other spouse does no more than sign it. I am very much aware of this because of an experience with a low-income widowed female sr. citizen of my acquaintance-who no longer HAD a tax liability, had her "stimulus" payment diverted to pay back taxes that the IRS claimed were owed from before her spouse died. So it seems that the IRS was still considering a married couple as one taxpaying identity just a couple of years ago. I tried to help her straighten it out-it wasn't a large sum of money, relatively speaking, not worth hiring an attorney to fight for her.

Yes and that backs the claim the current laws favor the lower wage earners. At the current percentages of 70/30 it favors the gender that make less.

Hardly fair for the 70% is it?

Well, then people should take care to marry folks in a similar income bracket. Anyway, where is this "70/30" figure coming from. Everything I have looked at-aside from community property states where it is 50/50, the language I was seeing in the sites I visited, was "equitable"-with NO statement about who earned more-or about GENDER.

Hardly fair for the 70% is it?
you mean the 70% of men who earn more than their spouses? Yet you seemed to delight in a news media feature about some high earning women who were having to pay permanent alimony to their lower-earning ex-husbands, in one particular state.

And in my opinion it is impossible to actually know if that is the case by a single stance on a single subject.

Yeah, well, if it's a recurring pattern and a preponderance- ah, never mind.

The word infallible was never used the fact that three trained state Dr's diagnosed the disease and that fact the state issued SSI was.

SSI is a Federal program, and they contract with various practicing doctors and even young drs doing residencies to evaluate SSI/ SSD claimants.They are not "trained State doctors". Perhaps an applicant might be sent to a dr doing a residency at a state facility, but it is the Social Security Administration that pays the examining doctor for their service. The doctor does not necessarily work for the state(or SSA) in the capacity of only doing SSI/SSD exams. Anyway that's how it works in MI-and SSDI,SSI, and Medicare are Federal programs. It may have been the case that your ex was also evaluated as to eligibility for MedicAid-which IS a state program.
But the doctors that do evaluations for SSI &SSDI are generally just doctors working in the area of practice pertinent to the claimed disability...SSA would not send a bi-polar or depressive disorder claimant to be evaluated by a podiatrist or a dermatologist.

Some of this was in Canada and there laws are not the same here in the US so they may have a different system.

Actually, the comment that you posted this response to was referring to another posters' message-and the incident did ot take place in Canada-in fact it took place in a southern US state.

Getting custody is up to the person and for a woman to loose custody is extremely rare of the 10% of fathers that do go for custody less than 1% obtain it. I have seen mothers that are know crackheads retain their kids.

I am glad to see the thread get back on track and civility return.

This is largely true but there are still situations where deeper pockets buy better lawyers, and that connections within the family and civil court do influence rulings.

Here in the states either gender can go to DFACS Dept of Family and Children services to obtain child support.
I suspect that most people here know that...even if they themselves haven't personally experienced it, they may have come into contact with child support issues in a volunteer, assistive or supportive role.

Again, in a recent post I listed "reasons to get married" from the Nolo website. That is what the topic question asked. Granted, then someone went off about how "unfair" it was for a woman to get some of the marital assets, or child/spousal support where applicable-and away we went in the PreNup Derby...
I agree with another poster that the "married couple considered to be one entity" for some matters and not others is illogical, to say the least. Perhaps it is time to pass a law that every adult individual is responsible for their own income tax issues,their own debts, and covering their own financial hind end.If that means people quit getting married and quit having kids,so be it.
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 502
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/13/2011 6:31:57 PM
Dar, as I understand it, that same thing happens with Social Security Retirement benefits here in the US...and no "prenup" can prevent it. It is indeed a sex tax.
The other thing that people-especailly mature adults-need to look at is any special tax credits that they might have once claimed with a former(either divorced or deceased) spouse-or if their new spouse ever claimed it with THEIR former spouse-for financial planning purposes. The law has now been changed, but I know of an older couple who married, sold the wife's house, and then couldn't take the tax exclusion(gain on sale of principle residence) because the wife had already benefitted once before when she took that tax exclusion with her first husband. As I said, that particular tax break has now been amended so that anyone can take it, more than once, regardless of age or whether they ever claimed it before...there are stipulations as to how often it may be taken because there is a residency/holding requirement to qualify a unit of residential real estate as "principle residence".
But tax advantages and/or DISadvantages are something that couples planning to marry need to look at.
Insofar as I know, the US gov't does not send inspectors to the dwellings of pensioners who are not married to one another to determine if they are sleeping in separate bedrooms and not having sex-are you saying that they DO investigate in Canada?
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 503
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/13/2011 7:15:45 PM

Ding ding ding-we have a WINNER!


Wow.... When Cindy O starts agreeing with me, then something is starting to turn. I wonder what it is.
 treasured
Joined: 9/24/2007
Msg: 504
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/13/2011 8:21:33 PM
Many women make more money than their partners. Some men are self-employed and therefore insurance is very expensive. If the woman is working and has benefits, their husband qualifies. In the world today, judges are giving children to fathers just as often as they give the children to mothers in divorce/custody cases. Women then have to pay child support and men take it just like mother do. Legally, it goes both ways. Not much reason for a woman to marry either.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 505
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/13/2011 8:43:03 PM
What I agreed with was your observation/opinion about "control freak". There was a considerable amount of narrative that made it sound like one of those situations that make one wonder why in the WORLD someone has a spouse or SO-because the spouse or SO is sort of shunted to the side while the other partner makes most of the decisions,handles the important functions of the relationship( child care, bill paying,money management,time management for the entire family). I know I have mentioned marriages/relationships where the female partner is told that her "equality" means that she must handle both roles except to be available for sex when required.

One could argue that these women are accepting the overload because THEY are "control freaks"-but personally, I think-this is my OPINION- that it is the male in this kind of "equality means the woman must do everything" relationship,who is simply manifesting the "control freak" thing in a different way.
I do think, from what I have seen of younger married couples, that perhaps younger men are not as apt to see gender equality in the workplace, marketplace and on the campus, as a threat to their "control"-perhaps the pendulum is finally stabilizing and centering?
As far as prenups, I do not object to them, I think they make good sense in situations where one or both people have acquired significant assets independently before marriage, or there are children from prior marriages/relationships.
However, a prenup is NOT a substitute for self-awareness, due diligence and a clear look at your intended partner, nor should it make it easy to considering exiting the marriage as a solution for any bump or riffle in the relationship.
Also, keep in mind that anger, resentment, or a feeling of having been wronged may cause one partner to bring in an attorney, claim coercion, claim horrific wrongdoing on the part of the other spouse, in order to break the pre-nup.
Pre-nups are fine but they should not be seen as a substitute for common sense, due diligence and careful and thorough contemplation and study of the soundness of the emotions and dynamics in the relationship, PRIOR to saying "I do"....
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 506
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/13/2011 10:41:24 PM

I do think, from what I have seen of younger married couples, that perhaps younger men are not as apt to see gender equality in the workplace, marketplace and on the campus, as a threat to their "control"-perhaps the pendulum is finally stabilizing and centering?


I was always shown, and taught that gender equality in the workplace is just. I don't see a woman above me, or below me. That's just the way I was raised. I've had woman who I reported to, and ones that reported to me. We always acted civil, just the way it's supposed to be.




As far as prenups, I do not object to them, I think they make good sense in situations where one or both people have acquired significant assets independently before marriage, or there are children from prior marriages/relationships.


Soon they will actually be cutting the children up into pieces to suit their equality in a divorce. How stupid. We all need to live on this planet together. Why the hell can't we treat each other with dignity? I'm not saying men, or women should be given the upper hand in a divorce. Just let's be fair to one another.
 EDnurse1965
Joined: 5/2/2011
Msg: 507
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 12:23:13 AM
In my experience it only causes monitary problems and credit problems. You tie yourselves together in all aspects when one of you screw up then y0u are both screwed so dont do it. Keep your livelyhoods separate in the off chance that things go south for one of you that you both dont go down...
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 508
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 9:51:18 AM

Soon they will actually be cutting the children up into pieces to suit their equality in a divorce.

I hear you on that!-and it scares the hell out of me.


I'm not saying men, or women should be given the upper hand in a divorce. Just let's be fair to one another.

Some of the information I have looked over at various websites seems to indicate that a huge percentage of divorcing couples DO manage to work out the matters of child custody,child support,asset division,without having to go to a trial or having a 3rd party(a judge) set the terms. I'm sure that in some of these private/"amicable" divisions of assets, there was a prenup, postnup,or some kind of documented "divorce planning.

What we seem to have here are some persons who are extremely passionate in their belief that "equitable division" or the 50/50 split in community property states is somehow unfair- I'd like to know what they would consider as a BETTER option?
And yes, family courts still consider the "tender years" principle when deciding child custody. Perhaps some of these men's divorce support groups should organize and start challenging that principle...because except in the case of a nursing infant, why COULDN'T the father have physical custody of the child(ren)?


You tie yourselves together in all aspects when one of you screw up then y0u are both screwed

This can be very true...which is why it behooves couples considering marriage to take the time to look critically at their spouses' work ethic, money management philosophy and skills,and for the prospective couple to be ON THE SAME PAGE in terms of whether to buy or rent a home, their position on buying large ticket items and the replacement of same-is upgrading appliances, vehicles etc going to be according to a schedule-or will it be "drive it til the wheels fall off. Then pick up the wheels, stick'em back on, and drive it some more"? These are things that couples need to sort out BEFORE they say "I do".


but what about gender equality in a legal marriage or relationship? Some to most men still think the female should be 100% responsible for the children, cleaning and cooking and work a full-time job, while Mr sits most of the time.

It is good to hear another woman make this observation....now lets see how long it takes for someone to accuse HER of "claiming women are oppressed", of gender bias, male-bashing,feminism, man-hating...
And yes, in the marriage where one partner seems to have a NEED to be the one doing everything, one has to wonder, how long the under-involved partner will accept being pushed into detachment/passivity before they start acting out or just plain LEAVE?
Cindy O
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 509
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 12:02:03 PM

An acquaintance of mine was so obsessed with the 50/50 split, that he power-sawed the sofa and kitchen table in half. Thankfully they had no children, but the police did haul him away for causing a disturbance in the apartment building and they were ready to haul him away in a straight-jacket if the need arose.

I knew a couple - at least I knew her - many years ago who had a homestead in remote Alaska. They split up during the winter, and both of them split everything they had down the middle - cabin, outhouse, table, chairs, with a chainsaw and took a sledge hammer to the wood stove, so each had half of everything. I have no idea how they survived the rest of the winter, but at least they were both still alive once spring arrived. No one thought of it as temporary insanity, it was just another case of cabin fever.

No kids, btw - they were both retired military and past the age of reproducing.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 510
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 12:40:18 PM
^^^ what if the pre-nup had specified that the lower-income-owner was entitled to less of the assets? "You have the wall with the window, and the toilet! I get the other three walls, the shower and the sink".

Here's some more bizarre divorce stories ...
http://www.cracked.com/article_17291_10-divorce-stories-too-strange-to-make-up.html

Wonder how many of these stories involved alcohol?
 kari135
Joined: 9/1/2009
Msg: 511
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 1:32:53 PM
^ ^ ^ No pre-nup, they weren't married. Alaska doesn't recognize common law marriage, however in actual practice, a pair who have joint property and children may well inherit if one or the other dies. An insurance company may and has chosen to treat this as if the remaining partner was indeed a spouse, in at least one instance I know of. A lawyer friend once told me those were the most difficult to disentangle, they had to get a real divorce even though they didn't have a 'real' marriage.

In the cabin fever instance, there wasn't one partner with a lower income - both retired from the military with the same rank, both were WW II vets. One of them just happened to be a woman.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 512
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 4:23:48 PM
Yes there are thousands of horror accounts out there being prepared is the best defense.

Here is a website I found quite useful.

http://secretdivorce.com/index.php

While it is a site designed for men I don't see why anyone could not use the advice.

This site shows why and how divorces laws show favoritism and how to counteract or circumvent the effects.


http://secretdivorce.com/index.php


This way no chainsaw is needed to divide assets. Or sledgehammer either!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 513
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 7:16:58 PM

This way no chainsaw is needed to divide assets. Or sledgehammer either!

Well, for the $75 fee they want, you could certainly BUY a sledgehammer and probably a decent 2ndhand chainsaw as well.
I can't say for sure, but it would appear that this site has packaged information that can be had-for a price. It might be useful if one had not done a prenup or a marriage dissolution contingency plan.
Look...when a young couple gets together and marries, has children,etc, there probably aren't going to BE a whole lot of assets to squabble over.
For the mature adult who has acquired some assets and is done raising kids-if losing some of one's assets is such a worry, don't get married, don't live together,don't co-mingle money or assets,do not buy large ticket items( or a house) together. According to some, this would be a huge "inconvenience"...but I guess it comes down to deciding whether you want to put your assets at risk for "convenience"-or can you sacrifice some convenience for the sake of protecting your assets. If there is no documented cohabitation(both parties having the same address) then no assets are risked. No one can pull the "living in sin" card on the couple. Committment is a state of mind, not signing a piece of paper.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 514
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 7:40:51 PM

For the mature adult who has acquired some assets and is done raising kids-if losing some of one's assets is such a worry, don't get married, don't live together,don't co-mingle money or assets,do not buy large ticket items( or a house) together. According to some, this would be a huge "inconvenience"...but I guess it comes down to deciding whether you want to put your assets at risk for "convenience"-or can you sacrifice some convenience for the sake of protecting your assets. If there is no documented cohabitation(both parties having the same address) then no assets are risked. No one can pull the "living in sin" card on the couple. Committment is a state of mind, not signing a piece of paper.


I agree it is a state of mind and one that change at the whim of one or the other.

Marriage however has a contract that the state can enforce....Unless the parties agree to a prearranged agreement.

I believe the people involved should decide if the want to marry or not. Sign an agreement or not. If they want to live together fine it should be their choice.

However knowing the rules like in any other area of life are paramount.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 515
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 7:42:38 PM


When did Socrates “commit” to philosophy - when he began to question pantheism and Hellenic politics as a middle-aged man, or when he publicly declined the opportunity to stop teaching and chose instead to risk his life at trial?


When you read the Apology you will know the answer.



Somebody forgot to tell them that a UNIT is one thing or one item or one person!!!!


Try reading with a bit more care and desire to understand.

I'm laughing, but not with you.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 516
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/14/2011 8:14:30 PM

Marriage however has a contract that the state can enforce....

How so? The state cannot "enforce" a marriage that has broken down. And the first line of defense to keep the state from "enforcing" decisions about child custody/support, division of assets,etc,is to sit down and work it out between yourselves.
Granted, if there is a lot of unresolved resentment, anger, jealousy or emotional pain going on, it may not be possible to come to terms without some sort of assistance-or having the terms laid out by the court.

I agree it is a state of mind and one that change at the whim of one or the other.

No, true committment does NOT change on a whim. I will not go so far as to say that true committment is indestructable/inviolable, but true committment does not "change at the whim of one or the other".
As far as "knowing the rules"-some here are shouting that the rules need to be changed, in terms of divorce procedures and resolution of child custody/support and asset division.
Somehow or other, I just can't imagine why anyone who felt it necessary to "know all the rules" , make divorce a study project, and then create a document full of protections and exclusions for their "stuff"-would even want to enter into a marriage.
Why do something that fills you with fear-why make a legal and social contract with someone when you firmly believe that their committment can and will "change on a whim"?
Here's all anybody needs to know...
In a divorce, EVERYBODY loses.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 517
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 11:08:47 AM

In a divorce, EVERYBODY loses.


So if EVERYBODY looses.

Isn't self preservation a law of nature?

The fight or flight gene kicks in anytime one is threatened. Be it a threat against life and limb or a threat against the ability to maintain ones lifestyle.

Knowing how the courts view "status Quo" will help a person do just that.

Knowing if financials are kept separate during marriage will set the status quo to remain that way if a divorce comes.

As another poster pointed out they are separate before marriage or a LTR so why do they have to be co-mingled after marriage?

See the courts may be on to something about the status quo being maintained.

Seeing as the #1 reason for divorce is money if each were held responsible for their own and could make their own choices in spending it maybe there would be less divorce.

What some seem to miss here is my stance is not to control as some seem to think, but make people of both genders aware of what can happen. To make the point if they can't work out a plan of ending the marriage w/o trying to destroy each other, then how much have they really thought the idea of marriage through?

I live in a state that is subject to hurricanes and tornado's .....tell me should I wait until one is on top of me to try and make a plan to keep me and my house safe?

Or does it make more sense to have a storm cellar and storm shutters for the doors and windows for my home along with a good insurance policy for the home.

My stance is if two people can't plan for a disaster they really haven't thought it through enough to entertain the idea of marriage.

Do whatever you like but when Katrina is blowing your life away I will be safe in my cellar and on the phone with my insurance agent planning the meeting to get the check to replace my home.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 518
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 11:38:02 AM

Isn't self preservation a law of nature?


Ahh, finally a topic that I understand..............YES, Yes and yes, self-preservation is a law of nature. Which leads me to another question?

Why do some men stay in a marriage whereby they no longer LOVE, respect or honor the woman they married? Do they not think, that women can sense when her man has stopped loving her, respecting her, cherishing her and honoring her? That, according to the marriage vows that most people say "I DO" too.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 519
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 11:51:32 AM

Why do some men stay in a marriage whereby they no longer LOVE, respect or honor the woman they married? Do they not think, that women can sense when her man has stopped loving her, respecting her, cherishing her and honoring her? That, according to the marriage vows that most people say "I DO" too.


The answer is that same law of nature.....They want to preserve their life....They know under the current laws if there was a divorce they would loose big time.

If they could keep their part of what they put in I feel the number of men that stay would choose not to. So if they had an agreement that each person was keeping their assets and the assets were not commingled in the marriage. There would be no reason to stay in a loveless marriage.

Hence the planning I support. That way they could avoid loosing everything in the storm that is divorce.

The protection is for the assets they made and as another poster said, isn't the right to keep the fruits of ones own labor the reason one works for the fruit?

You asked why men stay, here is one for the ladies...

Why do the lions share of divorces filed by women happen after the ten year anniversary? (the answer is not gender based but it is found in the laws that govern divorce)
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 520
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 12:16:47 PM

Why do the lions share of divorces filed by women happen after the ten year anniversary?


Because 10 years is typically how long it takes for a wife to figure out that her man doesn't love her anymore. Under the laws of "divorces are only granted due to infidelity of the other" a woman had to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that Mr was schtupping another woman.

In some of those divorce trials..........a woman would sacrifice her own reputation to RID herself of a husband that didn't love her anymore. The sacrifice was a cheaper price to pay, than hiring a private investigator who most likely couldn't do the job anyway or was being "bought off" by some affiliated men in power. Cops and politicians were notorious for this kind of deception and antics.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 521
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 12:19:51 PM

The answer is that same law of nature.....They want to preserve their life....They know under the current laws if there was a divorce they would loose big time.

This may be true for some men, but it's also true for some women. Some men (and women) don't leave an unhappy marriage because they think it's better for the kids. Some men (and women) don't leave an unhappy marriage because "divorce is wrong" or "nobody has ever gotten divorced in my family and I'm not going to be the first".

There are also men who voluntarily leave wifey/kids/stuff to escape a bad marriage. There are also women who leave everything, including kids, to get away from a bad marriage. Generalizations don't work and imputing a single motive for an action taken (or not taken) by men or women doesn't work either.


Why do the lions share of divorces filed by women happen after the ten year anniversary?

Because hubby walked out three years before, she's met a new man and wants to remarry. At least, that's what happened in my marriage (so it must be true for all, right?)... except I was the one who ended the marriage, and HE filed 3 years later because he wanted to remarry.

Just because someone files the divorce papers may or may not have anything to do with why the marriage ended, or who decided to end it. Why do so many men keep trotting out this tired old statistic as if it "proved" something (nasty about women)? For all we know, its the leavee who usually files, and the leaver who rarely does.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 522
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 12:31:59 PM

Because 10 years is typically how long it takes for a wife to figure out that her man doesn't love her anymore. Under the laws of "divorces are only granted due to infidelity of the other" a woman had to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that Mr was schtupping another woman.

In some of those divorce trials..........a woman would sacrifice her own reputation to RID herself of a husband that didn't love her anymore. The sacrifice was a cheaper price to pay, than hiring a private investigator who most likely couldn't do the job anyway or was being "bought off" by some affiliated men in power. Cops and politicians were notorious for this kind of deception and antics.


Still back in the past I see.....This law is much newer than that......It came along with no fault......It is the law that allows the assets made before the marriage, to become marital assets at the 10 year mark.

Tom Cruise divorced Nicole Kiddman right before the 10 year mark in their marriage......I remember the uber feminist magazines I saw at the at the check out stand blasting him for doing so.

That divorce brought to light a little known law that the shyster attorneys have used to get the lesser earner money from the higher earner for years.....As well as for themselves of course.

Knowing the laws and how to use them for self preservation is very useful in divorce and even more useful before the marriage.

That is why they are a "legal reason to get married" or NOT get married or a legal reason to prepare for marriage.

That is the beauty of thinking things through. It makes for more choices!


*************************************************************************


There are also men who voluntarily leave wifey/kids/stuff to escape a bad marriage. There are also women who leave everything, including kids, to get away from a bad marriage. Generalizations don't work and imputing a single motive for an action taken (or not taken) by men or women doesn't work either.


The question was already framed as "some" so there was no generalization.

Here is the question...
Why do some men stay in a marriage whereby they no longer LOVE, respect or honor the woman they married?


So why did you assume I was generalizing?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 523
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 12:38:19 PM
Seeing as the #1 reason for divorce is money if each were held responsible for their own and could make their own choices in spending it maybe there would be less divorce.

How does that help a sense of unity and mutual committment? By that token people should just not get married, just get together for socializing and sex. I do not mean that in a "snarky" manner. Part of marriage is the unity, having goals they want to establish as a couple. If there is little interest in doing that,if companionship and sex is all that's wanted,why not remain as legally separate entities?

To make the point if they can't work out a plan of ending the marriage w/o trying to destroy each other, then how much have they really thought the idea of marriage through?

Here's the problem with that. They-that is to say,ANY couple- may sit down together(and with counsel, if they so wish) and work out a divorce plan...but when the sh*t hits the fan and the rubber meets the road and there is anger and hurt, what's to stop the party that is the angriest from taking countermeasures, or retaining counsel to FIGHT the "divorce planning" that was worked out when they WEREN'T hurt,angry, frightened,horrifically disillusioned bcause they think their spouse has "totally changed"?

As another poster pointed out they are separate before marriage or a LTR so why do they have to be co-mingled after marriage?

I don't think that they HAVE to be...but what is to stop the court from deeming all assets (that cannot CLEARLY be shown as premarital)as "marital assets"? Other posters have made observations regarding however hard one might try to do so, there is going to be some co-mingling or financial give-and-take as long as the couple lives under the same roof. Suppose one spouse is having a rough time-reduced work hours,missed work due to illness or injury,and can't pay their share of the utilities? Do you reckon the other spouse can contact the electric company and ask that HALF of the power be turned off? Trying to both conduct a marriage (as most of us know it) and keep each partners money and assets strictly separate would be just about impossible. And, if you want to have a real scary thought,what if the court decides that the separate finances doesn't mean anything,that the presumption by corporations and government entities that a married couple is "one", has legal standing and therefore separate finances are meaningless, that it ALL belongs to both of them as a married couple?

but make people of both genders aware of what can happen.

Guess what? Most of people of both genders participating in this and other forums, have computers(or access to one) and probably have access and use of other media(TV, radio, newspapers), or observed a marriage failure among family or friends. How could they NOT be aware that an acrimonious divorce is going to result in battles over money, assets,possessions, the children and pets even.

I live in a state that is subject to hurricanes and tornado's .....tell me should I wait until one is on top of me to try and make a plan to keep me and my house safe?

IMO, this is comparing apples to oranges.

My stance is if two people can't plan for a disaster they really haven't thought it through enough to entertain the idea of marriage.

My stance is, if you are certain that the wheels are going to come off long before the race is over-and you will end up with a lot of cash going into a black hole,why would you even start the race?

I do not disagree with pre-nups...not at all. But a pre-nup is one thing. Going to "college"(reading all these websites) to get a PhD in Divorce and creating this elaborate plan to make sure all assets and monies stay separate because you are firmly convinced that your spouse is going to change on a whim, cheat, leave you for someone else,you are in efect creating a self-fulfilling prophecy...there will be absolutely no incentive to work on issues, so the minute the least blip appears on the radar the divorce papers will be filed.
Here's a thought-if marriage seems like a guarantee that a divorce is going to happen, and your spouse is going to obtain what you feel is an "unfair" share of YOUR assets, don't GET married. Take the damn money you would have spent on a wedding and a divorce,and send it to the Red Cross, to help the people in Joplin MO.I'm sure a lot of them had storm shelters and insurance, but when a force of Nature wipes out things like water, sanitation, emergency services, hospitals,when friends or loved ones have lost their lives-or are missing, a damn insurance check don't mean much.
The OT was about the reasons to get legally married-not the reasons to get prenups or keep your finances separate.
Again

Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits
Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
Estate Planning Benefits
Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
Government Benefits
Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.Receiving public assistance benefits.
Employment Benefits
Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
Medical Benefits
Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
Death Benefits
Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.Making burial or other final arrangements.
Family Benefits
Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
Applying for joint foster care rights.
Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
Housing Benefits
Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
Consumer BenefitsReceiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
Other Legal Benefits and Protections
Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

Those are reasons to get legally married. However, I am not suggesting that legal marriage is for everyone. And actually the trials, tribulations,and pitfalls of divorce present an excellent argument AGAINST getting legally married. I do not disagree with that.
But the OT question was "what are the reasons FOR getting legally married", not the reasons against it. Interesting that despite the wording of the topic title, most of this thread has been about the reasons AGAINST getting mrried.
Oh here's a gem I found
http://www.iaml.org/iaml_law_journal/back_issues/volume_1/prenuptial_agreements_in_the_united_states/index.html


The nationwide abandonment of traditional fault divorce starting in the 1970's eliminated at least one of the significant barriers to prenuptial agreements. However, the acceptance and enforcement of such premarital contracts between spouses has not been uniformly accepted throughout the United States, nor have the requirements by the state legislatures and courts been consistent or even coherent.

Under American law, prenuptial agreements are not simply garden variety contracts as between persons in a simple business transaction. This is an important aspect of the American law of prenuptial agreements given the unique history of individualism and individuals rights in American legal history and culture. The United States, as a general matter, highly values contractual freedom-so much so that the concept of the right to contract and to have those rights enforced is enshrined in the United States Constitution.[3] However, the intimate relationship of the parties to these agreements, the underlying caring and nurturing union that is presumably being contemplated, the fact that children may be produced of the union, and the significant role the state has in regulating this relationship and protecting the spouses and children have led to rules prohibiting certain issues from being addressed, a unique set of procedural requirements, tests for substantive fairness both at the time of execution and at the time of enforcement-all making these contracts unlike any standard commercial contract.

Unlike other countries that prohibit or refuse to enforce prenuptial contracts, most courts and legislative bodies in the United States now take the general position that prenuptial agreements are enforceable if they meet certain formal procedural requirements and are otherwise valid contracts under general contract principles.[4] However, factors that will also be considered are the length of the marriage, the foreseeability of various developments in the marriage, the existence of children, and the general substantive fairness of the agreement both at the time the contract is executed and when it is to be enforced-and each state's courts and legislature will promulgate these factors in its own unique way.

I would interpret this as saying that the court STILL may choose to look at the specific circumstances in a divorce should one party chose to contest the prenup.
I'd say THAT was something that people need to be aware of!

Why do the lions share of divorces filed by women happen after the ten year anniversary?

Because hubby walked out three years before, she's met a new man and wants to remarry. At least, that's what happened in my marriage (so it must be true for all, right?)...

Good point!




Cindy O
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 524
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 12:51:17 PM

Tom Cruise divorced Nicole Kiddman right before the 10 year mark in their marriage.


Their divorce was granted after the 10 year mark and Nicole Kiddman was worth more on paper than Tom Cruise was. But they settled the divorce amicably in the end by splitting the assets 50/50 and the children are amicably taken care of jointly. They live part-time with Cruise in the U.S. and part-time with Kiddman in Austrailia.

There are more advantages to settling AMICABLY, rather than dragging one's dirty laundry through the courts. Of which, at first they did........but then they both realized
how stupid they were being by allowing lawyers and the courts to control their destiny's.

Another lesson to be learned when dealing with the institution of marriage and divorce.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 525
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 12:58:10 PM

So why did you assume I was generalizing?

The OP's question was "Why do some men stay in a marriage whereby they no longer LOVE, respect or honor the woman they married (and some men leave)?" Not all those who remain do so because they'll "lose big time" if they leave.

Now care to answer my question ...

Why do so many men keep trotting out this tired old statistic as if it "proved" something (nasty about women)?
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