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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?      Home login  
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 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 526
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 22 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)


Their divorce was granted after the 10 year mark and Nicole Kiddman was worth more on paper than Tom Cruise was.


Don't know where your getting your info but you are incorrect about whom had the most assets.


Kidman will be allowed to use the jet when she wants to visit the children or take them to Australia, where her family lives. No details have emerged of the child support Cruise, who is worth £177 million, at least double Kidman's new worth, is to pay his ex-wife. But the couple have agreed that they can continue to be educated in a private school in Australia, at home in Los Angeles, and with tutors when Cruise or Kidman are filming on location.


Also since the divorce was filed before the 10 year mark the law that makes premarital assets marital assets is moot.

That is why he was blasted by the uber feminist media.

They did agree on a settlement but one that did NOT consider Tom's assets before the marriage.


******************************************************************************


How does that help a sense of unity and mutual committment? By that token people should just not get married, just get together for socializing and sex.


That is your opinion others can have different opinions and they may want it that way.

Isn't freewill great!


Here's the problem with that. They-that is to say,ANY couple- may sit down together(and with counsel, if they so wish) and work out a divorce plan...but when the sh*t hits the fan and the rubber meets the road and there is anger and hurt, what's to stop the party that is the angriest from taking countermeasures, or retaining counsel to FIGHT the "divorce planning" that was worked out when they WEREN'T hurt,angry, frightened,horrifically disillusioned bcause they think their spouse has "totally changed"?


But the court wants to preserve "status quo" And if that is the status quo of a couple wouldn't any attempt to circumvent the agreement be seen as greed?


what if the court decides that the separate finances doesn't mean anything,that the presumption by corporations and government entities that a married couple is "one", has legal standing and therefore separate finances are meaningless, that it ALL belongs to both of them as a married couple?


You can ask that question a hundred different ways it still has the same answer.

The court will look at status quo and wants that to continue. Precedent goes a lnog way in the court room.


Guess what? Most of people of both genders participating in this and other forums, have computers(or access to one) and probably have access and use of other media(TV, radio, newspapers), or observed a marriage failure among family or friends. How could they NOT be aware that an acrimonious divorce is going to result in battles over money, assets,possessions, the children and pets even.


Yes but they might not know how those laws and other tools can be used in their favor. To get a truly FAIR outcome.


My stance is, if you are certain that the wheels are going to come off long before the race is over-and you will end up with a lot of cash going into a black hole,why would you even start the race?


I have raced for years....One night my sons car broke. I did not have the parts to fix it but was able to patch it up.

He won the race with a broken car because the other racers made mistakes. So you always start the race to win when faced with a problem the champions emerge victorious because they find ways to win and don't just quit.

My son learned an important lesson that night....Even if you're in a weakened situation never give up. Show strength and let the others make mistakes and you will come out on top.


I would interpret this as saying that the court STILL may choose to look at the specific circumstances in a divorce should one party chose to contest the prenup.
I'd say THAT was something that people need to be aware of!


Of course you never put all your eggs in one basket.......... as standard marriage wants you to.

You use other laws and opportunities to protect assets. Be creative and diverse and never rely on just one firewall.
*******************************************************************************

Now care to answer my question ...

Why do so many men keep trotting out this tired old statistic as if it "proved" something (nasty about women)?


I never said it proves something nasty about women....It proves something nasty about divorce laws.

Either gender can use the law to their favor as MR. Cruise proved. Though he is one of the few that saw the dual blade in that law. The other side of the blade is used much more often.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 527
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 1:27:55 PM

It is the law that allows the assets made before the marriage, to become marital assets at the 10 year mark.


And what law might that be in the U.S.? I am Canadian and I've never heard of such a stupid law in the U.S.....are you sure you got your facts straight?

In Canada, as long as you don't put your "before marriage" assets into the "marital pot" and you can prove they were your assets prior to marriage, then they are exempt from the divorce chopping block of the 50/50 marital assets.

Mr Sleepy...I think you should ask your lawyer friends if what I'm saying isn't true for U.S. people too.

So, in my case..........I own a mortgage-free home, so I wouldn't marry someone and invite them to live in my home. I would buy another home jointly and rent out my current home and collect the rent into my own personal bank account that I had prior to marriage. That's just an example of NOT CO-MINGLING ASSETS, because I won't ever get married and become a casualty of the institution of marriage and divorce.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 528
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 1:28:20 PM

Either gender can use the law to their favor as MR. Cruise proved. Though he is one of the few that saw the dual blade in that law. The other side of the blade is used much more often.

Then it mystifies me as to why you specified women, if you wanted to prove something nasty about divorce law.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 529
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 1:49:28 PM
As follows is the Family Law Handbook for Florida...

www.flclerks.com/.../7-99_VERSION_Family_Law_Handbook.pdf - Similar

Don't be a "bone head" and familiarize yourself with the laws of marriage/divorce in your locality to be sure of what you are entitled to and/or are not entitled to in the event of a divorce. Every state and province in North America has a Family Law Handbook you can access via the internet or offices for the Justice of the Peace.

Just try to be Civil and keep the Darn Peace.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 530
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 1:51:38 PM

I have a Sweetheart that would marry me in a heart-beat,

Why does he want to marry you?

I would love to know the positive reasons to marry.

If your sweetheart hasn't persuaded you, it's extremely unlikely that anyone here will be able to. Out of curiousity, what reason can you envision (no matter how outlandish) that would persuade you to marry, at this age and stage of your life?

So far I haven't experienced it.

Have you been married?
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 531
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 1:56:11 PM

Then it mystifies me as to why you specified women, if you wanted to prove something nasty about divorce law.


Because they use this law the most. It is lopsided to the lesser earner and that is women 70% of the time.

I was simply balancing the debate since someone had asked a question about why men normally do something concerning marriage/divorce I thought it fair to ask one of the ladies. No malice intended.


You asked why men stay, here is one for the ladies...

Why do the lions share of divorces filed by women happen after the ten year anniversary? (the answer is not gender based but it is found in the laws that govern divorce)


*******************************************************************************

And what law might that be in the U.S.? I am Canadian and I've never heard of such a stupid law in the U.S.....are you sure you got your facts straight?


A simple Google search will prove the law is on the books in many US states.


So, in my case..........I own a mortgage-free home, so I wouldn't marry someone and invite them to live in my home. I would buy another home jointly and rent out my current home and collect the rent into my own personal bank account that I had prior to marriage. That's just an example of NOT CO-MINGLING ASSETS, because I won't ever get married and become a casualty of the institution of marriage and divorce.


So your means to the end is not the same as mine but the end is the same.

So why is it a problem as long as the means are legal?


I certainly agree with Mjyawn67 about the importance of protecting one's self. The way people are at the beginning of being together, all cootchi-coo and lovey-dovey, isn't at all how they are at the blood-thirsty end.


Hummm a female poster that agrees with me....I certainly see why your beau would be wanting to marry you. Intelligence and logic are very desirable assets in a mate.


I would love to know the positive reasons to marry. So far I haven't experienced it.


They are many....Having a mate to share the ups and downs with someone that has your back in times of trouble and shares the joy in times of triumph.

Someone that wants you for you and not what you can help them obtain monetarily.

All these reason are great ones for marriage and IF I find a like minded mate then it would be great.....If not I am very happy with my current life. Which is something very important to look for in a mate......Never attach yourself to someone looking for a way out of their miserable life.......They won't find happiness but will drag you down to their level of being miserable.

************************************************************************


As follows is the Family Law Handbook for Florida...

www.flclerks.com/.../7-99_VERSION_Family_Law_Handbook.pdf - Similar

Don't be a "bone head" and familiarize yourself with the laws of marriage/divorce in your locality to be sure of what you are entitled to and/or are not entitled to in the event of a divorce. Every state and province in North America has a Family Law Handbook you can access via the internet or offices for the Justice of the Peace.

Just try to be Civil and keep the Darn Peace.



Not Found

The requested URL /.../7-99_VERSION_Family_Law_Handbook.pdf - Similar was not found on this server.


I never said it was in every state but it is in several. Not a bone head just informed.

Your link is broken BTW.

Your point is not....It seems your saying to know the law in your case and use it.....The same thing I have been saying.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 532
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 1:59:34 PM
because I would also like to know what the reasons for getting legally married(at my age and stage)are.


The way people are at the beginning of being together, all cootchi-coo and lovey-dovey, isn't at all how they are at the blood-thirsty end.


"Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience" several people have said..

IF you expect to remain healthy, fully mentally oriented and ambulatory forever, with no accidents ever requiring long-term care from a devoted spouse.. Didn't they used to exist?

Maybe it's now a fantasy that someone would ever be that devoted.. After about 3 years of living together, the infatuation is usually gone and the real personalities are presented..

IF you get along well enough after 3yrs living with an SOs real personality and all the hidden agendas are out in the open finally, then it just might last indefinitely.. Hopefully...
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 533
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 2:11:39 PM

So why is it a problem as long as the means are legal?


For me marriage is a problem..........because I like my F.R.E.E.D.O.M. and I like to do what I want and when I want...................without some "Bone Head" telling me what he thinks and I really don't care what anyone else thinks...........it's my life and I don't want to share my life with any "Bone Heads."

Freedom Coffe and Freedom Latte' for everyone

Family Law in Florida is pretty much the same as Family Law in Alberta, just don't
co-mingle assets and don't let any "Bone Heads" help you manage your assets, or they may entitle themselves to your assets. Otherwise, a "Bone Head" may become your liability.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 534
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 2:20:50 PM

Because they use this law the most. It is lopsided to the lesser earner and that is women 70% of the time.

If you are talking about the stupidity of the law, there is no need to bring gender into it, imo. It just contributes to polarization and miscommunication. Even if others want to play this game, there's no need for you to buy into it. Again, imo.

IF you get along well enough after 3yrs living with an SOs real personality and all the hidden agendas are out in the open finally, then it just might last indefinitely

Don't count on it; common-law relationships fail after marriage more often than marriages that aren't preceeded by co-habitation. Those that study stuff like this think its because people who are willing to live together without marriage don't take marriage as seriously as those who insist that the ceremony comes first. It also tends to be true that those who wait for the ceremony are more likely to have stronger social and family ties. People who practice some kind of religion also tend to fall into this group.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 535
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 2:27:43 PM
They are many....Having a mate to share the ups and downs with someone that has your back in times of trouble and shares the joy in times of triumph.


What a pile of CAW CAW that is..............yup in times of joy and triump the "Bone Heads" will be there right beside you, however in times of trouble.....you won't be able to see the "Bone Head" leaving for all the dust their kicking up trying to run from you and the troubles you may have in your life. What a pile of nonsense!

 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 536
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 2:36:52 PM

What a pile of CAW CAW that is..............yup in times of joy and triump the "Bone Heads" as there right beside you, however in times of trouble.....you won't be able to see the "Bone Head" leaving for all the dust their kicking up trying to run from you and the troubles you may have in your life. What a pile of nonsense!


All the more reason to have protections in place so they don't leave with your assets!
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 537
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 2:50:42 PM
Carpe, thanks for answering my questions. :) I agree, 7 months is too soon to be thinking about marriage; that's barely into the infatuation stage! Having gotten way too involved way too soon in the past, I know whereof I speak!

I'm getting too old to start over again. My retirement is starting to be a wee light in the distant horizon.

I resemble that remark, though my light is getting rather too bright. I have more in terms of assets than does my guy, but we aren't talking about marriage or living together so it's not an issue.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 538
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 3:05:48 PM

To answer your questions...yes, been married.
Current sweetheart states he has never met a woman like me before...someone who isn't after him for what he has...an equal to him, kind, loving, a positive role-model for his girls etc,etc. Even after 7 months he continues to be amazed, he says.


Well, another one bites the dust.........not criticizing you for your choices because we all have to live with the choices we make. Just hope it's a good choice for you and good luck!

Now, back to the stuff in quotes..........they all say that kind of crap to boost your ego, which is mean't to blind-side you from his own real agenda. A positive role-model for his girls, what about him as a positive role-model to your children? Then there is the other agenda....getting all your daily SERVICES for free (zero dollars). Will all his services to you be daily? Just asking, and is only something to think about. Retirement (?) probably only from the paid workforce outside of the home, however your work inside the home will always be expected for free (zero dollars) and just about all husbands and wives take that for granted.

My grandmother was a "very wise" woman for a good reason and she lived almost a century. Her wisdom wasn't wasted on me...........that you can be sure of.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 539
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 3:19:29 PM

they all say that kind of crap to boost your ego, which is mean't to blind-side you from his own real agenda.

No more or less than do women. Men are just as human as women, just as likely to be sincere and genuine, or conniving and duplicitous. Possibly, or even probably, the OPs guy does really think she's the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. Free "services" to someone you love isn't all bad, yanno; giving to someone else is part of what keeps us emotionally healthy. Looking for payback or for the "trick" is a sign of dysfunction. IMO, as usual.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 540
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 3:54:25 PM
First, let me post a reminder-I have no PERSONAL axe to grind based on divorce experience. I am actually quite ambivalent about ever marrying again,simply because I have found that I really do enjoy the autonomy of NOT having a spouse or resident SO.

I am not unaware of, or resistant to, the idea of prenups.

Particularly when we talk of women who are over 45, who may well have accumulated some financial security and assets of their own, there are men who seek to cash in on the belief that all single women have only one goal...to have a man in her life...even if the man doesn't bring JACK to the table.So prenups have their place for both genders, and also to make sure that your estate goes where you want it to, should you pre-decease your new spouse. Just be careful that the arrangement doesn't become a means for your widowed spouse to be tossed out of his or her home by your heirs.

However, in general terms I'm not all that convinced that prenups are ironclad and unbreakable.
I'm sorry, but I was married for over 25 years, always worked and had my own income(as did my late DH),and I cannot for the life of me imagine how 2 people could marry, live under the same roof, sleep in the same bed, and NOT tend to co-mingle income, improve a home as a joint project, make some joint investments or purchase a large ticket item together.
I found some interesting information that makes ME tend to wonder if this much-brandished "status quo" actually means what some may THINK it does. What I took from skimming over some websites, is that "status quo" refers more to what the living and financial arrangements are at the time the divorce is filed, NOT some Byzantine system of never co-mingling a penny of "individual" monies during the marriage. It refers more to matters such as who moves out of the marital home,what arrangements are in place concerning child support,who is paying the mortgage on the marital home...apparently for the most part couples should believe that they will be expected to go on as they started out.

I found this regarding property division, and by "property"-it appears to mean all tangible assets, not just real estate"

fromhttp://divorcesupport.about.com/od/propertydistribution/Property_Distribution_During_Divorce.htm


..Filed In:Your Legal Rights
Property Distribution During Divorce
When dividing property during divorce a court will first determine if the property is marital or non-marital property. This can be a very complicated process and is is dealt with according to your state's laws.

All property acquired by either spouse before the marriage is considered non-marital property. All property acquired after the marriage is considered property of the marriage or marital property. If the property is marital property then the court must “equitably” divide the property.

This seems to say that property acquired after the marriage is marital property, regardless of keeping finances separate, prenuptial agreements or any "status quo".
This webpage goes on to re-iterate

Property acquired by either spouse before the marriage is considered non – marital property. All property acquired after the marriage is considered property of the marriage or marital property.

This doesn't say anything about property acquired after the marriage being non-marital property because the couple kept separate finances, had a prenup, or because one spouse put everything into a trust or LLC.
I'm not going to quote the entire webpage. but here's a link about separate accounts, "hidden assets",etc.
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/propertydistribution/ht/hiddenassets.htm

My stance is, if you are certain that the wheels are going to come off long before the race is over-and you will end up with a lot of cash going into a black hole,why would you even start the race?
******************************

I have raced for years....One night my sons car broke. I did not have the parts to fix it but was able to patch it up.

He won the race with a broken car because the other racers made mistakes. So you always start the race to win when faced with a problem the champions emerge victorious because they find ways to win and don't just quit.

My son learned an important lesson that night....Even if you're in a weakened situation never give up. Show strength and let the others make mistakes and you will come out on top.

Dude. " if you are certain the wheels are going to come off long before the race is over" was an analogy.

Of course you never put all your eggs in one basket.......... as standard marriage wants you to.

The way I am interpreting the information I'm reading seems to indicate that marriage="eggs in one basket"-in terms of property/assets acquired after marriage,regardless of prenups and 'status quo'.
Here is what
http://www.divorcelawtampabay.com/MaritalAssetsDebts.aspx
has to say about pre and non-marital assets


A judge must not include "premarital assets and debts" and "nonmarital assets debts" in equitable distribution. Assets/debts acquired before a marriage (premarital") and assets/debts acquired during the marriage, but from a source unconnected with the marriage ("nonmarital") and which remain titled solely in one spouse's name, are used as separate money, and, most importantly, are not comingled with marital funds are treated as one spouse's separate assets/debts. However, in unusual circumstances, a judge can use a person's premarital or nonmarital assets for lump sum alimony and/or for attorney fees to pay the other spouse assuming a great disparity of income between the parties and no other source of money being available to pay alimony or fees.

If the value of a premarital asset or nonmarital asset increased ("enhanced") during the marriage by marital money and/or services or labor, the other party will generally be entitled to one-half of the "enhanced value" of the asset. Assume that a husband owned a stock account before the marriage, continued to own it in his own name during the marriage, and the value of the account significantly increased during the marriage. The wife would be entitled to one-half of the increased value if the increase was due to "active appreciation" (that is, the husband actively traded stock within the account). However, the wife would not receive one-half is the increased value of the stock account was due only to "passive appreciation" (that is, increase in value due only to improved market conditions).


I did see some information-don't recall exactly where- that seemed to indicate that the 10 year mark may have to do with a spouse being awarded alimony.

Free "services" to someone you love isn't all bad, yanno; giving to someone else is part of what keeps us emotionally healthy. Looking for payback or for the "trick" is a sign of dysfunction. IMO, as usual.

That's pretty much the way I see it,too.
To add to the stories of cohabiting couples who married and the marriage failed...
I had an uncle by marriage who lived with a woman for 6 years. They got married and broke up in 6 WEEKS.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 541
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 4:38:06 PM

This doesn't say anything about property acquired after the marriage being non-marital property because the couple kept separate finances, had a prenup, or because one spouse put everything into a trust or LLC.
I'm not going to quote the entire webpage. but here's a link about separate accounts, "hidden assets",etc.
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/propertydistribution/ht/hiddenassets.htm


AHHHH but when the LLC is not "OWNED" by the one married just how is it going to be considered martial assets?

See that is the beauty of my arrangement with my kids. They own the business which is me and my assets.

When I work I deposit the money into the business and don't draw a salary. The business pays for my living expenses. The business provides me with a company truck and motorcycle. A home and all the necessary things that go with the home. In other words the business pays all my bills.

I keep a business checking account with 2000.00 dollars in it never more. So the only thing the courts could attach as marital assets is the small account.

So the largest amount that could be removed from me is 1000.00 dollars.

Pretty sure that would not even cover the attorney fees in a disputed divorce.

Knock yourself out on finding a way to get past my safeguards but rest assured they are redundant some to the fourth power.

Even the kids claim to the assets are protected until I am deceased.

Why does it bother you so much that I have these safeguards in place? If you truly don't have a problem why spend so much time trying to prove they can't protect me.

Could you be trying so hard to discount them so others will not adopt them?


I did see some information-don't recall exactly where- that seemed to indicate that the 10 year mark may have to do with a spouse being awarded alimony.


I didn't mention alimony I said it allowed the assets that were obtained before marriage to be considered as martial assets.

MR. Cruise used it to his advantage I thought it would be advantageous to others to have the info.

As far as the other blather and white wash I am not responding to you on that. Only to your points which are very weak on why my safeguards won't work seeing as you have no idea how in depth they are or how they work.

The business is designed to get around typical marriage/divorce asset laws.

So all the typical laws that might apply to regular ways to get to assets in a divorce are impervious to this arrangement.

I mean how can a judge take my kids business assets?

So all the standard ways to find hidden assets are useless against me.

But please keep digging for one that will work. If you find one I will be talking to my attorney so we can sew that gap up!



 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 542
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 5:07:15 PM
Current sweetheart states he has never met a woman like me before...someone who isn't after him for what he has...an equal to him, kind, loving, a positive role-model for his girls etc,etc. Even after 7 months he continues to be amazed, he says.



Does anyone know where ladies of this caliber come from? Does anyone know where Gentlemen of this caliber come from?
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 543
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 5:21:07 PM
^^^^I hope your gonna give the answer UnixGrand!!



Anyway, this one is for Mr Sleepy...


It is important to understand that limited liability does not imply that owners are always fully protected from personal liabilities. Courts can and sometimes will pierce the corporate veil of corporations (or LLCs) when some type of fraud or misrepresentation is involved.


The same fellas that make the laws, are the same fellas that know how to disect the laws. That is what humans should always remember.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 544
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 5:38:54 PM

Anyway, this one is for Mr Sleepy...


It is important to understand that limited liability does not imply that owners are always fully protected from personal liabilities. Courts can and sometimes will pierce the corporate veil of corporations (or LLCs) when some type of fraud or misrepresentation is involved.


The same fellas that make the laws, are the same fellas that know how to disect the laws. That is what humans should always remember.


Notice the statement..." when some type of fraud or misrepresentation is involved."

Tell me seeing as the company has been made now years before any marriage is entered into how it could be considered fraud or misrepresentation?

See the limit on moving money around to hide assets in a divorce case is 2 years prior. Seeing as this was done years before any marriage has taken place it can not be considered as hiding assets.

Again nice try but that angle would be shot down before the ink was dry on the motion.

Remember these safeguards are designed to protect against the current divorce laws by no less than three different attorneys.

One of them is a Superior court judge.....You know the one that resides over the divorce cases.

The pre nup is but one of the gatekeepers the LLC's another there are more redundancies but no need to go into them.

Besides the fact there is no way for anyone to claim in a divorce I had the assets when the still future marriage took place.

So timing is on my side as well.

Keep digging though you may find a loophole I need to close.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 545
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 5:52:45 PM

I was going to say to Unixgrand that we come from Alberta...something to do with the extreme cold winters we have to go through...

But then I find that MizRazzle comes from Calgary, and she feels vastly different than I do


That's amazing. I like Canadians. They are more friendly then Americans. I once helped this woman from Toronto get a great job with a good company in NYC. She was very polite, and grateful. Her story was amazing, how she made it from Canada to New York. Eh!
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 546
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 6:10:43 PM
AHHH
When one particular poster thinks that everything I post is all about HIM.

I didn't mention alimony I said it allowed the assets that were obtained before marriage to be considered as martial assets.

MARTIAL assets? Freudian slip much??
I realize you didn't mention alimony, I did not SAY you mentioned alimony. I simply mentioned that because that was the only thing I saw that seemed to pertain to some "10 year mark".


Why does it bother you so much that I have these safeguards in place?

Why would you think I'm even remotely bothered?
I'm simply pointing out to the entire forum that things like pre-nups or completely separate finances in marriage may NOT be the magic cloak that protects one from a reduction in standard of living should a divorce occur. There may be drawbacks to trusts and LLCs, or perhaps it could be proven that regardless of how they are packaged, the amount of time you put into your business and the uses you have of funding and equipment reflect that they are in fact YOUR assets. When I say "your", I'm speaking in general terms to all participants who might consider using your methods. Because when it comes right down to it, the only certain way to avoid the possibility of losing some money or assets in a divorce is to not get married in the first place.
As for your particular arrangement,who knows? Apparently it's an open secret, so to speak, don't be too sure that a sharp attorney couldn't find a way to call it into question.
A friend of mine discovered that her ex had hidden assets in a manner that sounds very similar to what you describe,and he didn't get away with it. Now, that situation may not have been EXACTLY as yours is,but I feel as though somebody has to wave the "caveat emptor" flag here once in awhile, a YMMV, a "results atypical" disclaimer.

Could you be trying so hard to discount them so others will not adopt them?

Why the hell would I care? I'm simply being Devil's Advocate,with the hope that "others" do not "adopt them" without getting competent,in-person legal advice in their own state or province. I'm not trying to discount anything, simply pointing out that they may not be ironclad and bulletproof in every situation, or in every state/province.

The business is designed to get around typical marriage/divorce asset laws.

So all the typical laws that might apply to regular ways to get to assets in a divorce are impervious to this arrangement.

You better hope these forums never get found,should you actually wind up fighting over financial matters in your next divorce. I hear emails are being used in divorces and related matters, so one has to wonder if the same couldn't happen with chatroom or discussion forums.
IDK-maybe the judge would order the LLC to pay money to your next ex, a share of the gains from the during the marriage, if it were established that the business is to all practical intents and purposes YOUR possession.
The court may not "take your kids' business assets"-but they might make a finding that your next ex is entitled to a cash share of the profits/gain that accumulated during the marriage.
I know of an elderly couple who divorced-it was the lady who had the higher assets. When they married, the sold HER home and lived in the one that belonged to the man.
The court did not make the man give up the house, they recognized his ownership...however, due to using a lot of the woman's cash assets during the course of the marriage(8 yrs) to acquire more land, build a pole building, buy boats, RVs,etc, she was deemed entitled to an amount of cash money in the division of marital assets. The man had to sell his home to MAKE that payment.
and oh, yanno what? They had a prenup!
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 547
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 6:36:29 PM
That's amazing. I like Canadians. They are more friendly then Americans. I once helped this woman from Toronto get a great job with a good company in NYC. She was very polite, and grateful. Her story was amazing, how she made it from Canada to New York. Eh!


What say you Cindy O?
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 548
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 6:47:14 PM

MARTIAL assets? Freudian slip much??
I realize you didn't mention alimony, I did not SAY you mentioned alimony. I simply mentioned that because that was the only thing I saw that seemed to pertain to some "10 year mark".


Which shows again if the posts are read unto comprehension there would be less misunderstandings about what is said.

As far as the spelling mistake I have never claimed to be perfect.



Why would you think I'm even remotely bothered?


Because you are devoting hours to finding reason why they won't work. If they are truly as useless as you claim why try and discredit them?


Why the hell would I care? I'm simply being Devil's Advocate,with the hope that "others" do not "adopt them" without getting competent,in-person legal advice in their own state or province. I'm not trying to discount anything, simply pointing out that they may not be ironclad and bulletproof in every situation, or in every state/province.


UHHH you would need to have an attorney to draw them up to be legal so they would have to talk to an attorney anyway.
So again why are you trying to discredit them?


You better hope these forums never get found,should you actually wind up fighting over financial matters in your next divorce. I hear emails are being used in divorces and related matters, so one has to wonder if the same couldn't happen with chatroom or discussion forums.


Seeing as I am not married and if I do marry the business would be years old how would that be hiding assets. It would be the way I do business.

Is there a law against not drawing a salary?


IDK-maybe the judge would order the LLC to pay money to your next ex, a share of the gains from the during the marriage, if it were established that the business is to all practical intents and purposes YOUR possession.
The court may not "take your kids' business assets"-but they might make a finding that your next ex is entitled to a cash share of the profits/gain that accumulated during the marriage.


I would not accumulate any assets they belong to the business my children own remember I work for them.
Again the business is here now years before any marriage that might happen. No way the court will or can consider it hiding assets as the limit on that is two years prior to the divorce being filed. The business is older than that.

Nice try but epic fail.


The court did not make the man give up the house, they recognized his ownership...however, due to using a lot of the woman's cash assets during the course of the marriage(8 yrs) to acquire more land, build a pole building, buy boats, RVs,etc, she was deemed entitled to an amount of cash money in the division of marital assets. The man had to sell his home to MAKE that payment.
and oh, yanno what? They had a prenup!


And that is why I have so many redundancies.

Had he had a LLC owned by his kids or someone he could trust the improvements could have been done through the business, and they would not have been considered assets of the marriage.

Please keep looking if you find a loophole I'll be sure to find a way to close it.

Just the fact someone would spend so much time trying to find a chink in the armor is reason to know the armor is needed.
Seeing as my safeguards protect against normal divorce laws one poster has made it a mission to find a way to include my assets in a divorce.

Just think if she is so set on finding a way to get to them, how much harder might a blood thirsty spouse try?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 549
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 9:21:34 PM


What say you Cindy O?

About what? Canadians? Lovely people-have ancestors buried in Kitchener somewhere.
Have some couples/families that come down and do endurance races(equestrian) with us here in MI-wonderful people,good horsemen, good parents, resourceful....


Which shows again if the posts are read unto comprehension there would be less misunderstandings about what is said.

what makes you think I didn't comprehend the material I happened to read-and mention? Did you read it too? It wasn't here in this forum-it was something I saw in passing on another website...the only reference that came up quickly regarding a "10-year mark".
You DO know what a Freudian slip is?

Because you are devoting hours to finding reason why they won't work.

Devoting HOURS???
Now that right there is FUNNY, I don't care who ya are.
A few quick minutes googling and reading. I can't imagine why you would think I'd devote hours to this tempest in a teapot.

So again why are you trying to discredit them?

Not trying to discredit,simply suggesting that they may not be as perfect as you are trying to represent.

Seeing as I am not married and if I do marry the business would be years old how would that be hiding assets. It would be the way I do business.

Ummm-you have extensive postings just to this particular thread, outlining that this IS a strategy to keep a possible future ex-wife from getting an equitable division of marital assets. Maybe it's a long shot, but this is not a closely restricted website, and you know what they say-stuff you put on the internet is there forever.

No way the court will or can consider it hiding assets as the limit on that is two years prior to the divorce being filed. The business is older than that.

Still, unless the happy divorcing couple settle the matters of asset division privately, it may end up getting hashed out in court and it will be the courts'decision as to how assets get divided. Another poster offered this information and comment...

It is important to understand that limited liability does not imply that owners are always fully protected from personal liabilities. Courts can and sometimes will pierce the corporate veil of corporations (or LLCs) when some type of fraud or misrepresentation is involved.
**************************************************************************

The same fellas that make the laws, are the same fellas that know how to dissect the laws. That is what humans should always remember

Indeed.

misrepresentation

That seems to me like a word that could be pretty broadly interpreted by people who deal with various forms of it every day.

Nice try but epic fail.

You hope. "Misrepresentation" could have a pretty broad interpretation.

Had he had a LLC owned by his kids or someone he could trust the improvements could have been done through the business, and they would not have been considered assets of the marriage.

He only had one child-who hadn't spoken to him in YEARS. What's funny is that it was fairly obvious that HE was the gold-digger in the scenario. The woman got fed up with his bullying, domineering, controlling and abusive ways-FINALLY. Now, she CLAIMED that her lawyer had told her that the prenup(that was done at HER insistence) wouldn't hold up in court and she would probably have to pay alimony to the guy until he died,as the reason she put up with his crap as long as she did. I was inclined to wonder if that was really true, but I heard from other people who were closely involved that it was.

Just the fact someone would spend so much time trying to find a chink in the armor is reason to know the armor is needed.
Seeing as my safeguards protect against normal divorce laws one poster has made it a mission to find a way to include my assets in a divorce.

Nah, I have no problem with reasonable measures to protect oneself from losing assets that were premarital, especially for people in middle-age and beyond-like a simple pre-nup. Layers of protection against it?
Sounds obsessive to me.
Oh, and btw, were you to be planning to marry again, would you be presenting your prospective bride-and her attorney-with a complete disclosure of the LLC thing, and the fact that she would get NOTHING in the event of your death,and probably would be evicted by the "owners" of your house and business? That since you don't get a salary, there will be no Social Security surviving spouse benefits? I mean, hopefully she will have her own resources, but still, complete disclosure would be the honorable thing to do. And I think she should be aware of your penniless state, she might hav concerns about having to pay you alimony in the event of a divorce-since you have practically nothing to your name. Hope her attorney cautions her about that possibility. What was that about protecting HER assets? yeah I bet. Looking to appear to the court as a pauper?
I really don't care about your convoluted arrangements...I simply want to point out that there ARE drawbacks, so that people don't try to follow your advice without question. Remember this is a forum and people are allowed to ask questions, post opposing opinions, point out possible flaws in a plan or theory, simply as mental exercise,or academic discussion without needing to have some kind of personal stake in the topic 0r related suject matter.
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 550
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/15/2011 9:42:36 PM
About what? Canadians? Lovely people-have ancestors buried in Kitchener somewhere.
Have some couples/families that come down and do endurance races(equestrian) with us here in MI-wonderful people,good horsemen, good parents, resourceful....


Sorry mjyawn67. I tried to shake her off the subject, but it didn't work. She's a hell of a woman though. Here's to you Cindy O. Mightier than the Titanic herself.
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