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 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 626
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 26 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
Logans' Run. Soylent Green.
I'm getting real close to being officially creeped out here.
As for the poster who expressed the POSITIVE side of marriage-many thanks. But technically it is off topic because it is LEGALITIES that are the topic of this particular thread.
As for someone being raised by wolves, I'd be more inclined to think "jackals" or "wild hogs"...wolves actually HAVE a social structure within their pack.
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 627
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 11:50:40 AM

As for someone being raised by wolves, I'd be more inclined to think "jackals" or "wild hogs"...wolves actually HAVE a social structure within their pack.


Are you referring to the ancient Egyptian game "Dogs and Jackals?"
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 628
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 12:21:26 PM
No
I said "wild *H*ogs. not "dogs". I was speculating that perhaps the poster who asked(whomever it was they were asking)"were you raised by wolves"-might not be aware that wolves DO have a social structure and hierarchy. Generally speaking, only the alpha pair mate and produce offspring and the entire pack looks out for the offspring.
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 629
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 1:25:56 PM

But the courts and legislatures are first and foremost interested in preventing divorced spouses and children of broken marriages-regardless of gender and/or who did what to who and when they done it-from becoming dependents on the state assistance rolls-dollars that come out of taxpayer pockets.


So the reason for the current laws are to keep people off the taxpayers dime?

That is funny because the current laws encourage this. By not requiring the lesser earner to be responsible for them selves.

Divorce doesn't have to be the reason either. Say a couple get married and have kids. The provider of the family gets killed the care giver to the kids has done nothing to keep current in there field of work.

They find themselves not able to care for themselves and their kids. The state is the one that has to take up the slack.

This is but one way it could happen.

Right now just because the divorce laws allow for subsidization there is no guarantee it will keep the ex from having to have state assistance.

Millions of divorced care givers that were lazy and didn't try to keep a way to support themselves are receiving state funds as well as the ex spouses funds.

The ideas of me and others including at least one great female legal mind would lessen the need for the state support just because the lesser earner would have the incentive of self preservation.

They would know that their best interest would be served by being self supportive. Instead of relying on their ex to do so. Because that option would be removed if a divorce split was done on the percentages of the the actual amount of money they put in.

So the the ideas that have been put out here would actually reduce the amount of tax money needed, where the system you keep defending perpetuates the problem you claim it fixes.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 630
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 1:56:29 PM
There are lots of single-parent women who work two jobs to support their children and they don't have any help from their mothers/fathers, grandparents, sister/brothers, aunts/uncles. It has only been within the last 30-40 years that elementary schools have co-operated with working mothers to provide lunch programs and/or busing of children. Day Care Centers are also a relatively new institution in history. In addition, most working mothers did not have the opportunity to leave their place of employment to attend to a sick or handicapped child.


Therein lies the problem TODAY. The legislation, etc. is outdated. I don't dispute that women from a particular era (and there are still some from that era) that needed support and assistance, but North America is no longer the same as it was 30 to 40 years ago and longer, as is kept being brought up by some to bolster their position. The rules need to be updated. The fact that "lots" of single-parent women work as many as two jobs to support their children backs up the contention that they are able to in today's world, just as men are. Marriage today is different, employability today is different, education today is different. Legislation needs to be changed in order to keep in line with those changes.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 631
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 2:35:43 PM
Right now just because the divorce laws allow for subsidization there is no guarantee it will keep the ex from having to have state assistance.

WTF??? Divorce laws "allow" for "subsidization"? Just exactly what does that mean???

Depending on the income of the family, it is possible that the custodial parent may receive not only a certain degree of equitable asset division, and some child support-if this still causes the CHILDREN to be below the state poverty guidelines,yes, there may well be some assistance provided by the state. This could happen even in a family where both parents work,if they don't have high-paying jobs. "Manner they have become accustomed to" is an IDEAL, a theoretical concept that in practicality, does not leave the lower income spouse with nothing, and perhaps loss of child custody based strictly on which spouse has the deeper pockets.Divorce is going to impact the entire family, and in most cases other than very high income British celebrities,everyone is going to have their standard of living lowered.The concepts of asset division,child support and possibly alimony are meant to try and minimize that lowering. The fact that at this point in history, here in North America, most men earn more than their spouses, means that the higher earning male might not be able to leave the marriage with everything the couple acquired and leave the female, and possibly children, in dire poverty simply because the man was stupid enough to marry a woman who earned less than he did.
Take responsibility, fer pete's sake. If you don't like what can happen in the dissolution of a marriage, then don't GET married. I have not seen any information indicating that pre-nups are guaranteed to hold up in court, and prenups only cover assets acquired prior to the marriage or income/assets that are clearly unrelated to the marriage...and I imagine it would be up to the court to decide whether an an assetor an income stream was "clearly unrelated to the marriage.

Divorce doesn't have to be the reason either. Say a couple get married and have kids. The provider of the family gets killed the care giver to the kids has done nothing to keep current in there field of work.

So what should be done? The provider of a family dies, so we blame the the caregiving spouse for NOT having a full-time job and let the family starve? Actually, there may be Social Security benefits, life insurance, workmans comp or other insurance benefits available to a single-income family who loses the provider of the income.
By all the arguments I'm hearing here, it sounds as though women should padlock the p*ssy, focus on getting a full-time job, not marrying, not having children. If this means the human race dies out, so be it. A lot of humans are very annoying.

The ideas of me and others including at least one great female legal mind would lessen the need for the state support just because the lesser earner would have the incentive of self preservation

So it's the 'golden rule'-the one that has the gold makes the rules? How does that track with these angry high-earning women you were citing as support for your viewpoint earlier in the thread? Their husbands should have striven harder to earn higher incomes because they would be responsible for their own "self-preservation".

Or is that somehow different? Does the code of "self preservation" only apply to women if they earn less than their husbands? Are we back to men being angry because gender equality has not provided them a river of obligation-free p*ssy?
From all I can determine in reading the information regarding divorce, division of assets, possibilities of cash payments-the court looks at a great many facts, and factors in deciding those matters. A handful of states seem to have a strict "50/50" division under the concept of "community property". Otherwise, it is up to the court,IF the divorcing couple cannot come to an agreement on their own or through mediation,to weigh the facts and factors of the matter and try to arrive at an equitable resolution.

The only thing I can say to everyone is to protect THEMSELVES. Don't cohabit with or marry someone that earns less than you do. Do not have children unless you are completely accepting of the risks the little darlings pose to your wallet.

IF most states had a set-in-stone rule that division of assets was a strict 50/50, and that women automatically got custody of the children, that would be one thing. But in other than a handful of states, it is NOT a set-in-stone 50/50, and men certainly may seek full custody of minor children. If someone is earning less than their stbx, because they have taken time off, or worked reduced hours, to raise children, why should the children be punished with a lower living standard. Is it being suggested that child custody should automatically go to the higher earner?
If that is what is wanted, and such a law is passed, I think we will see married couples in competition with each other to earn the higher salary,and many other aspects of marriage and parenting will be pushed aside in a contest to be the higher earner, so as to not lose custody of the children in the event of divorce.
But if that is deemed to be "fair", then by all means that should be made law.
Msg #704-in this specific instance-good call!
Cindy O
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 632
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 2:44:55 PM
wow, who knew that would be the response!

Legislation does not need to change, human beings need to change the way they think and the way they do things and the way they perceive things.


That's not going to happen until they either are force fed an education or educate themselves. Good luck with that one. Since many can't or won't, that's why laws are enacted and need to be updated to keep current with the present.


As far as I can see North America is still in the same place on the globe as it was 30 -40 years ago.


This is true, it's in the same place geographically, minus an imperceptible shift once in awhile. It's difficult to know if that quoted was supposed to be humour or sarcasm or a reading problem - the word "place" was somehow magically inserted. Whatever...it doesn't address the intended fact of the statement that the people and circumstances have changed over time (even though the geography remains pretty much the same with respect to global placement).

How does one leap from law to genitalia when discussing reasons for getting legally married which also involves legally getting unmarried? wow What about instances of marriage where there are no children or children past the age of majority? Many posters don't even have the ability to pro-create any longer either by choice, circumstance or age. It's difficult to understand the reason for the rant - perhaps it's the belief that women and men should be legally forced into marriage rather than have abortion available? That at least might be closer to keeping directly on topic. I dunno...please explain.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 633
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 2:55:08 PM

Are you suggesting now that parents should work three jobs to support their children so they can pay the same legal system that creates the rules to provide a further update to more rules, that will only be updated again when people are unhappy?
Is this the same bureaucracy that would like to work everybody to death so that nobody has any time left over for their children and wives/husbands, grandparents, aunts, uncles, male & female friends.


No, I'm suggesting that people should, in fact, plan their lives. Not have children until they can afford to, not pop them out like a Pez dispenser; not get married for all the wrong reasons; not get married without thinking about all the financial ramifications before, during and unfortunately for too many, after marriage. If they did use the brains they were supposedly born with and didn't act like thoughtless sheeple, there would be even less need for big brother bureaucracy to step in and straighten out their ill thought out lives that affect not only themselves but the innocent children they create and very often create without much forethought and, frankly, all too often not much after-thought either.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 634
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 3:10:42 PM

That's not going to happen until they either are force fed an education or educate themselves. Good luck with that one. Since many can't or won't, that's why laws are enacted and need to be updated to keep current with the present.

I think it's an historical fact that laws follow social change. It's also a good point LC4 makes, that the State (ie: taxpayer) is not going to be interested in supporting children/imprudent/improvident ex's, if there is someone else whose pocket they can take it from. I think the necessary laws are already on the books for the most part; I think the equitable application of them needs to continue to improve.

I suspect that the solution of men refusing to marry isn't really a solution; ultimately women aren't really going to care - many already do not. And, if men declare that women should also be prepared to support and raise kids without financial assistance from Daddy (unless she remains with him! do I hear echoes of the 50s here??), then what use will men be to educated and self-supporting women other than sperm donors? Certainly not emotional support; many (if not most women) have much stronger social support from other women than men do from other men.

Twenty-five years ago, I knew a man who kept saying that the future of societal power rested with women. He and his wife were way ahead of the curve, though - he was a full-time stay-at-home dad to two little girls; she supported the family, and was told by her employer that she didn't need wage parity with her male colleague because "he had a family to support." At the time, I didn't believe him: I am beginning to now.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 635
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 3:22:49 PM

...then what use will men be to educated and self-supporting women other than sperm donors?


That's already becoming a viable option to many, and not just women. I don't see it becoming the norm, or if it ever does, it'll be long after any of us are here to debate it. It does speak, however, to the fact that those individuals who make a decision to take a different path from the status quo as far as marriage is concerned, at the very least are seeing to their own needs instead of expecting someone else to, whether it be an ex-spouse or the rest of society.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 636
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 3:35:52 PM

at the very least are seeing to their own needs instead of expecting someone else to, whether it be an ex-spouse or the rest of society.

Laudable, I suppose. Or maybe not. There is something to be said for those cultures which consider supporting each other within the family/village to be of paramount importance. My brother-in-law is the oldest and most educated in his family. He supports my sister, an ex-wife, his daughter, contributes to the support of his mother and two of his four brothers and their families.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 637
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 4:07:16 PM

There is something to be said for those cultures which consider supporting each other within the family/village to be of paramount importance

Yes there is. But unfortunately, that can no longer be considered a given.
Which is why we have old-age and disability pensions, assistance programs, and the asset division process within divorce. Really not all that long ago, it was a very likely scenario that an abandoned wife and children, or a family whose breadwinner had died, would have to look to their parents, siblings, their community, or faith-based initiatives for the means to survive. Unfortunately it was not always the best or most reliable solution.
Perhaps no-fault divorce has created a tendency to end the marriage rather than work on it-who can say. The old system of having to prove "fault", or one spouse refusing to acquiesce to the divorce, that wasn't perfect either.
Cindy O
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 638
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 4:28:17 PM
How about we all just learn to respect each other for our differences in opinion and align our ways into learning how to understand each other a little more, even though our genitalia is different.


Because this make too much sense. Seems we would rather continue flogging each other, until we each drew blood.


BTW.... Did anyone hear about the Women's Equality lawsuit in the workplace, vs. Walmart?


Yesterday was Father's Day.......I wonder how many children actually celebrated that day with their biological fathers, and if their children knew just how contemptuous some fathers WERE, of their own child's birth.......when it occured.


I celebrated Father's Day with my mom and dad yesterday.


As far as marriage goes.....men typically do the asking and women are typically the ones who agree or disagree.


I should hope this statement is not true in this day and age.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 639
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/20/2011 5:28:11 PM
Also... This is the way I remember marriage. It's turned so ugly lately.

Watch and Learn Copy and Paste ====> http://youtu.be/9MZWrEfB_VM
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 640
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 10:25:01 AM

There was a time in history when husbands wanted numerous amounts of children from a wife, but we have since learned that it is was a practice more closely related to the "sexual abuse" of women and to dominante or control the rights of a female's reproduction system and/or their desire to practise celibacy. Some to most women were, and are still being forced into marriage or into servitude. As far as marriage goes.....men typically do the asking and women are typically the ones who agree or disagree.


The usual reason for have numerous children was so they would have enough help on the farm.

Not to dominate or control the females reproductive system.

As far as celibacy why would anyone get married if they wanted to be celibate?



Some to most women were, and are still being forced into marriage or into servitude.


So some to most women are STILL being forced into marriage or into servitude?

Really you really believe this? If that is the case why would they do it in the first place?

I haven't heard of any shotgun marriages lately......And even in the days of old the reason they were called shotgun marriages......The fathers and or brothers of the "bride" would hold the "groom" at the point of a shotgun and force the guy to marry her.


So I don't know what fantasy world you live in but those kinds of things are history, at least in most of the world.

And some people wonder why I feel the need for protection? Statements like these are why.

Sometimes you don't know what is in a persons mind until it is to late.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 641
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 10:57:05 AM

As far as celibacy why would anyone get married if they wanted to be celibate?

There was a time in history that WOMEN had little choice of having any kind of adult life and status unless they got married. Parents, for a number of reasons, pushed HARD to get their daughters "married off", and arranged marriages were not uncommon.
For the most part, a woman had little opportunity/option to choose a career and singlehood, what was open to her was unpaid servant in her parents' home, marriage, or perhaps she could enter a convent and be shut away from the world. I don't know as I would go so far as to label it all "abuse"-men wanted sex and the only bc available to women WAS celibacy. Yes, there were many couples where after several children, the wife could say "that's about enough of THAT horsesh*t" and her husband would respect that and take his desires to some sort of side dish. BUT-women did not have any defense against her husband forcing her to have sex-he OWNED her.
Fortunately, that one-time inequity is being chipped away, but it's taken quite awhile, really-womens' suffrage( right to vote) only began in the early 20th century-and it was something that had to be ratified state by state.
So, yes, for a long,long time,women were in a sense "abused" because they had no ownership over their own bodies!
I think that what is being spoken of as "force" in Western culture countries, is the social concept that a woman is somehow defective if she doesn't have a husband. And there ARE countries in the world where women are still secondary beings, ruled by fathers or spouses.

Sometimes you don't know what is in a persons mind until it is to late.

Well, if that seems to be a frequent occurrence in your life, perhaps you should consider staying OUT of situations where you think you need "protection"?
"Doctor-my arm is broken in 3 places-what should I do?"
Doctors' reply-
"Stay out of those places!"
Cindy O
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 642
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 11:31:39 AM
Here we go again, stating what was a century ago and what is in other countries where women are still treated basically as slaves. A century ago in the U.S. and Canada it is understood women didn't have the rights that they do now and didn't have the currently available education and employment availabilities. Women are now surpassing men in academic achievements because of those availabilities, so look out for even further change. There is still, in some sectors, a disparity in equal pay. That's being fought for, as changes to the legislation regarding prenups, marriage and divorce are and should be fought for as things change in the western world. The western world has changed and will continue to do so and legislative changes regarding marriage laws also need to change at the same time, much of which is starting to revolve around individual choices (or couples' choices), rather than a one size fits all mentality.

As far as women being thought of as defective in western culture if a woman's not married and that "forces" them into it, one only has to have children who are at that age to know that's yearly getting to be less and less the case. It appears that where it was common in my day (70's) for women to get married between 18 and 21 because it was "expected", both men and women are now waiting until they're in their late 20's or early 30's, if even then. Bridezilla mentality is now being mocked - not aspired to by most.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 643
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 11:34:25 AM

There was a time in history that WOMEN had little choice of having any kind of adult life and status unless they got married. Parents, for a number of reasons, pushed HARD to get their daughters "married off", and arranged marriages were not uncommon.


And that time is over! What does what happened 100+ years ago have to do with today?

Men were at one time subjected to shotgun marriages they didn't want to be in also. So your point is MOOT by 100 years!


I think that what is being spoken of as "force" in Western culture countries, is the social concept that a woman is somehow defective if she doesn't have a husband. .


If that is the case it is because the women let them have power over them from caring what they think.

If she is so independent and self-supportive why worry what others think of them?

So the "force" is actually them letting people put ideas in their heads and pressure on them.
So whos fault is that?


Well, if that seems to be a frequent occurrence in your life, perhaps you should consider staying OUT of situations where you think you need "protection"?
"Doctor-my arm is broken in 3 places-what should I do?"
Doctors' reply-
"Stay out of those places!"


Or protect yourself where that doesn't happen again.

Don Gartlits is the father of the rear engine dragster. He lost half of his left foot in a explosion in a front engine car.

The rear engine car had been tried many times before and failed. His first several attempts also failed.

He then figured out the steering box they used from the front engine(slingshot) cars had to much steering ratio. They changed the steering box to one with a lesser ratio and the rear engine car worked fine. Has saved lives and limbs and allowed world records that could never been reached with the old slingshot dragsters.

So when faced with a problem one can just give up or they can invent a new way of doing it that just might be a game changing break through.

I'm not much on accepting that some things are just the way they are and nothing can be done.

I would rather be the one to make things happen instead of watching them happen.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 644
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 12:43:17 PM

Women are now surpassing men in academic achievements because of those availabilities, so look out for even further change.

I absolutely agree with this- my reference back to historical information was in response to a question by a poster that was having difficulty understanding a point made by another poster-to be fair, it was a point that could easily be misunderstood.

If that is the case it is because the women let them have power over them from caring what they think.

I do not disagree with that. I was making an observation, not an assignment of blame.

If she is so independent and self-supportive why worry what others think of them?
This IS becoming more and more the case-but there are still regional,socioeconomic and ethnic subcultures that do tend to pressure women towards marriage. Not everyone in the dating world is a white,middle class male or female living in a major urban center.
But lets flip that around, shall we? How come a middle-aged male that has been burnt 3 times at least in marriage/serious relationships, is hanging out at dating site forums posting to threads that deal with marriage? Is he looking for disaster #4? Or is he looking for "evidence" that the estate of matrimony is highly defective, so that he can salve the wounds to his ego that are SOCIALLY inflicted-because he worries what other people think?
Yeah and when Earnhardt Sr died, the best safety and engineering minds associated with NASCAR set out to seek more protection for stock car drivers.
When Christopher Reeve had his riding accident, many doctors, engineers, physical therapists, etc went to work to improve riding helmets,resulting in some very real improvement.
However, just because most of the current participants in this forum have vaginas, does not mean that they do not grasp the concept of failure/injury(whether physical, mental, or financial)and how it can inform and motivate improvements or better protective measures.
We aren't in 3rd grade here. We understand the concept of making improvements or greater safety measures when an incident or disaster points out possible flaws in the original design. We don't need to have it illustrated like we were simpletons.

So when faced with a problem one can just give up or they can invent a new way of doing it that just might be a game changing break through.


So , you think that your divorces should be sufficient compulsion for a complete re-write of the marriage ceremony, an overhaul of the current system of dividing assets , determining child custody/support, and alimony, so that it is invariably MEN that benefit from divorce? Have you presented this to the legislature?
What I find interesting is that you keep crying out that 70% of women have less income than men, therefore it is unfair favoritism to women, but yet you go dig up an instance of a few women who earned more than their ex-husbands,and-in one particular state of the union, got hit with permanent alimony payments to their ex-husbands-then tried to present that as some sort of irrefutable universal truth and proof that WOMEN also think that the current system of asset division(which isn't the same thing as ALIMONY,btw) is "unfair".
But then again, we keep hearing about all the prenup provisions and the trusts and LLCS you have to shield your assets, and I wonder why you even worry about it.
Are you afraid that these measures aren't enough? That you might make another bad marriage, and that the court might choose to toss out your prenup and pierce your LLC,so that another conniving woman would be trying to get YOUR stuff? And maybe this time you won' be able to back her down with intimidation regarding her "reputation" which is a SOCIAL concern?
Good grief, man-there's a SIMPLE solution. Don't get married again.
At first I wondered why someone with such a history would even consider DATING.
But then, when I looked the thing over more closely, I realized that some people will keep getting married because of some mistaken belief that marriage=CONTROL. Those are the ones that want the current system of divorce and financial resolution to be struck down, because they want to have their cake( be married for reasons of control) and eat it too(not lose any money or assets when the controlling behavior destroys the marriage).
I suspect that is what this is REALLY about.
Cindy O
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 645
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 1:24:27 PM
Yikes...what happened to staying on topic and not personalizing...again??
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 646
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 1:54:16 PM
LOL
I'm simply responding in the same manner as I'm being addressed in.
Several times both I and others have posted unbiased information from websites concerned with law, listing the possible advantages/good reasons for getting "legally married".
But it keeps coming back t0 the same old same old, that marriage=divorce which is unfair to men because they usually earn more than their wives and women are expecting men to pay them for babies that the men apparently didn't really want.

I can only conclude, that if one is frightened of marriage, if one has had prior bad experiences of marriage, indeed-IF ONE HAS TO ASK ABOUT REASONS TO GET MARRIED-and I don't care WHO you are!-
DON'T!!!
Cindy O
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 647
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 2:27:21 PM
Well, I guess it's all a matter of interpretation. I have repeatedly seen the same individual's posts and I haven't seen where it was indicated that it's about men that it's unfair to, but rather, that it's unfair to anyone, male or female who happens to have assets that perhaps require protection in the event that something untoward should happen to end a marriage, such as cheating, drug use, whatever other reasons one can think of.

While the thread topic is "What are the reasons for getting legally married", it's not what are the "advantages/good reasons" for getting legally married. That is an insertion from a differing point of view, which happens to be yours. There are advantages and disadvantages with the legalities of marriage. When it comes to the actual legalities of it, however, part of those legalities are the ability to have prenups, in whatever form they may take, prior to getting married. If prenup suggestions or even demands are unpalitable to the other partner considering marriage, they simply will back out. As with divorce, you are required to each have your own legal counsel, even if you don't have assets of any kind, and the same holds true with respect to prenups - it's a safeguard. Anyone who would consider an air-tight, iron clad prenup that protects their own interests, male or female, knows going in that it may be subject to the other party to the contract walking away. Why would you expect someone would even want to get married with those conditions??...lol...you'd know it was for love and not money for one. As with all contracts, they are subject to change if that is written in. As a contract worker for instance, I make mine negotiable on a year to year basis. Who knows...maybe someone with an air tight, iron clad prenup would change it too over the course of time to be more relaxed.

The thread is incredibly repetitious on both sides. Some people like being legally married, some don't, some like taking precautionary measures whether they're contemplating ever getting married or even moving in together, and some get off on arguing, period.
 relax385
Joined: 4/13/2011
Msg: 648
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 5:09:39 PM
I think the only reasons are to start a family unit and celebrate love that you have found. (Not always in that order)
It's not something that everyone needs to do.
Some people are happier single or happier without the piece of paper.

Depends on what your heart desires...
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 649
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 7:38:47 PM
Let me clarify that I have no quarrel with prenups.None whatsoever.

And I fully realize that if one party finds the prenup to be unduly complicated or apt to divert THEIR assets into the prenup authors pockets, or in some way seems to be more about control and pre-set "rules",than protection of premarital assets,of course they are going to walk away. Of course the one who gets walked away from, will presume that it was all about the money.
So their distorted thinking that everyone is out to marry someone to financially shaft them will simply continue and grow worse.
Speaking to the larger picture, keeping those with distorted thinking out of marriage probably is a blessing in disguise.
The reasons for getting legally married hav been cited several times. Those that see nothing but traps in those reasons should just not get married.
Here's my other thought regarding pre-nups. They are excellent and highly recommended to protect premarital assets, or assets that are clearly generated with no connection to the marriage( i.e. an annuity or stock portfolio owned premaritally).
But I think that a prenup is NOT going to prevent a division of marital assets. When it comes to wages, salary, ordinary income,big ticket items acquired during the marriage,I'm not sure whether a pre-nup could protect that. Even a spouse that does not work outside the home-or works less, or earns less, is considered to be contributing to the accumulation of assets by unpaid efforts as household manager, care-giver of children, acting as a "concierge". And I am pretty sure that a pre-nup cannot be used to evade child support-because the support IS for the child, it's one of those contractual obligations of marriage and parenthood that cannot be broken or over-ridden by any premarital agreement.
I'm fairly sure that the attorneys for the parties would point this out,in actual practice-but just as a general observation, I've heard and seen the information on several occasions that pre-nups cannot over-ride child support or the division of MARITAL assets-which is something that the couple can work out themselves, or with the assistance of a mediator.
It's my understanding-and other posters have brought this up as well, that MOST asset division, child custody/support,etc are worked out WITHOUT having to involve court action and having a judge set the terms.
Yes, there are a number of legal, civil, social, spiritual ,practical and emotional reasons to get legally married.
f there is a significant amount of assets owned by one half of the couple prior to marriage, if there are children from prior marriages/relationships and concerns about inheritance matters- OF COURSE a prenup should be seriously considered.
But-and this is just MY personal opinion-if a prospective spouse slapped down a pre-constructed, complex pre-nup and conveyed the impression that lip service MIGHT paid to my input-I think I'd be headed for the door simply because this approach would be screaming( to me)of great insecurity, distrust and that my prospective partner was already considering marriage failure as a foregone conclusion.
A prenup worked out together ,an agreement pertinent to OUR own situation,with separate assistance of counsel for each of us, I would be more than glad to have. And yes, I might find myself concerned about MY assets,particularly if my prospective bridegroom had less material assets-but that would be so very much dependent on the particulars of the situation.
Yes, there are good reasons to get legally married, and there are potential drawbacks. One can make a plan and document it, for protection of pre-marital assets, but you can't devise a document that will protect you from every possible drawback or unfortunate situation-good grief you'd drive yourself nuts!!
But maybe that is what has happened to some-they've driven themselves nuts?
Cindy O
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 650
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/21/2011 9:44:42 PM
But maybe that is what has happened to some-they've driven themselves nuts?

Perhaps...perhaps not. Perhaps it really is others, and not themselves, who have driven them to be over-cautionary. It can be said that a person's picker is broken...it can also be said that person has had a trusting nature and taken people at their word but the acting abilities of the deceitful ones have hidden their true nature well. The trusting individual is devastated to find they have been scammed, even more than once, strictly because of that trusting nature. It reminds me of some of the documentaries I've watched where women who have had assets, or even just a job, married men who's only motive in life was to live off of unsuspecting, trusting individuals. It's found to be abhorrent when men do it but it's less of a stigma when women do it to men - society has viewed it as "normal" that a man should be the "provider" and women incredibly often take full advantage of that notion.

Think of how many times we've heard in these very forums the tales of both men and women who have indicated the person they married was not the person they thought they knew beforehand. Also, the phrase "love is blind" is a phrase for a very good reason. They're then told they need to heal and learn to trust again because not every person is like that. So they do...they heal...and trust again and they're back at square one - meeting up with someone who reads that trusting nature as a walking bank. If they don't get the goods during the marriage, they'll bide their time long enough to get it through divorce. Then when they say it's happened to them more than once, they're told their picker is broken. They're damned either way. Not everyone has the ability to read people well or to have finely tuned intuitive abilities, particularly when there's the brain chemical imbalance caused by the emotion of love.

Prenup or not, I'm totally in favour of people being self-sufficient before, during and after marriage. Keep your skills up, and if you never had any, develop some; don't use the excuse of child rearing as a road block, at least not for years on end. If single parents find they need to take on two jobs to make ends meet, surely when parents are together then, the one staying home can make time to exercise their brain to the extent they don't "lose their skills and fall behind." Take pride in yourself that you are prepared to stand alone under any circumstance and not be at the mercy of any one else, be it a partner or big brother. Apathy is very similar to pathetic in a lot of cases.
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