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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?      Home login  
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 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 681
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 32 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)
Now tell me why someone with a masters degree would need that kind of support?


Laziness, and a user.


I watched/listened to the above video, but only found it somewhat funny....but also sad to a huge degree. Seems as though some men would rather shoot themselves, than to help with chores around the house or provide the day to day care and control of raising children to the adult age of 18.


Darlite. I bet when you were watching the video, you thought the husband killed his wife. And actually it was the other way around. Either way people would have had something to complain about.


I'm happy to be back on my feet too


CarpeOmnia.... I am glad you made it back. You are a better human being for it. And you will be rewarded for it. One question though.... Did he have a better Lawyer than you? Or was it just fate?
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 682
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/23/2011 12:44:44 PM

So, come to think of it, there are not compelling legal, practical, social, financial, reasons to get married. The reasons for getting married have more to do with love, logistics, emotions, and spiritual matters, despite what all the alarmists are shrieking at you.

Which is pretty much what I stated a long time ago. Gotta love the sidetracks a thread takes, though (especially when done without animosity) - otherwise this one would have been done at page...I dunno...maybe 5?...lol
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 683
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What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/23/2011 5:06:09 PM
When his Legal Aid lawyer had enough of him not co-operating and not providing any supporting documents...she quit on him.



You know what's funny..... LAWYERS. Here's a female attorney who knows that he is probably BS'ing through his teeth. That's why the Legal game is the biggest insult to man, and woman kind. Let's put it this way..... I would be proud to know that I made it through the dark, and came forth on top. When I got divorced.... I didn't even want to put up a fight. My stepsons were still living at home, and I was not going to rip the house right out from underneath them. I walked out with the clothes on my back, my car, and $20K in the bank. She ended up with the $600K house, all the furniture, and everything else we collected together through out the years being married. I figured it this way... If I was going to contest this, the lawyers would have taken a boat load of money from us. This way we both retained something. In the past ten years I have made it all back, and more.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 684
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/23/2011 5:15:33 PM
Y'know
There was a time when "reading the law" was an honored profession.

My stepsons were still living at home, and I was not going to rip the house right out from underneath them.

That you could make this decision for children that weren't even your own, puts some of the men here crying and whining and worrying about shielding every little penny,to shame.
Nothing wrong with looking out for your own interests, but sometimes its the person who looks at the bigger picture, and decides to be the bigger person, comes out way ahead in the things that REALLY matter.
Cindy O
 errant71
Joined: 4/4/2009
Msg: 685
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/23/2011 6:31:22 PM
I’m not sure I find protecting financial assets shameful. My definition of shameful behavior would lean more toward the alienation of a parent over those financial assets. A child needs more than financial assets. A child needs the emotional support and caring of both parents … it’s the ultimate asset.

I have absolutely no issue with marriage. That said, I do have an issue with the dissolution of a marriage with children in which those children lose their greatest asset, the loving support of a mother and a father. In my view, except in poverty situations, a child can afford to lose more in financial assets that that child can afford to lose in emotional assets. Sometimes both a mother and a father need to make sacrifices.
 Sportsfreak89
Joined: 12/28/2010
Msg: 686
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/23/2011 9:07:26 PM
Though I plan to NEVER EVER be a married man or father myself (reasons are listed on my page) here are reasons why I think people do it:


1. Societal pressure. Society has created a "social clock" that says they have to and when they have to also. Plus society seems to be misled to believe that love can only be shown extrinisically through expensive yet worthless circles of painted metal and with dramatic phrases and empty promises and cannot be shown in any other fashion. Society believes that people should have to sacrifice who they are and that men have to throw their treasures away to make room for the woman's stuff. Like one man once told me: "what's yours is hers and what's hers is hers."
2. Money is always a big thing. Women love to use a man's money (except for my girlfriend thankfully).
3. Religion. Religious figures get upset when lives aren't created and claim that those who don't marry go to hell (even though pretty much all of us do anyway if such a place even exists). Some people will be fooled by what these schmucks say too sadly.
4. There are those who want to be like everyone else and live everyone else's lives.
5. The couple has so much fun together they start to believe that being together more often will only be more fun...but most couples are finding now that the passion in their relationship starts to fade as now they become bored with each other always being there and how much they miss the diversification of their activities as well as good friends they ended up having to give up in order to be married.

I'm sure everyone has their reasons and maybe it's not a bad thing for everyone. I am not an expert and there's a chance some of these reasons are not why people get married. Regardless of why they make this silly mistake, it's their choice and if they wish to give up their freedom and everything that made them happy when they were young or give up good friends because their spouse doesn't want them to see those good friends because of their gender well then that's their decision and any decisions regarding one's choice to be married or not should be respected.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 687
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/23/2011 9:51:49 PM

I’m not sure I find protecting financial assets shameful.

I don't think anyone has said it was shameful.Depending on the nature of the assets, a pre-nup or at least some diligent research/professional advice is perfectly appropriate. I think in some cases,thought there tends to be a degree of over-reaction.
Assets that one has prior to marriage are pre-marital,not marital,and theoretically not subject to asset division. There may be situations where gains realized from the during the marital period might be considered a marital asset,and that GAIN subject to division. But the scenario of a person owning a store or a business PRIOR to marriage and then losing half of the entire asset-not just half of the GAIN- in a divorce settlement, is not necessarily going to happen. What we seem to be hearing from a few people is a paranoia about documentation , shielding ,keeping completely separate finances within the marriage-to the point where much of the intent of marriage( to endeavor TOGETHER for happiness and prosperity) would be obliterated! I guess my feeling is, if one has that much FEAR-perhaps they should seriously consider permanent singlehood. Again, if there is so much accounting, documenting, lawyering, that the intent of marriage( mutual endeavor for mutual prosperity and happiness) becomes lost, if the whole thing evolves into an exercise in accounting-if forward progress towards common marital goals,can never be achieved because there might be a mingling of finances, or one could afford half of something and the other couldn't, why get married or even co-habit? Better to maintain separate lives and just date/hang out!
Nothing wrong with protecting assets previously acquired, clarifying matters of inheritance if there are children from prior marriages, but if it's all done to a degree that serves to CRIPPLE the marriage, then why even GET married. Want to be sure nobody else gets any of your stuff?
Stay single.
Cindy O
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 688
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/24/2011 10:29:51 AM

I don’t know where some of the men posting here get the idea that taking care of children is a piece of cake


I think some of it has to do with the fact that the women who do put forth a great amount of effort (work, child rearing) and don't sit around on their butts going to the spa, never say anything or complain.

Or perhaps, as many of us did back then, we took what our moms did at home for granted and men don't often have to think about being a stay at home Dad in reality. Whereas my original plan was to be a stay at home mom and everything I knew about it was based on what I viewed watching my mom. So I knew it wasn't a sit on your azz all day "job". My mom always had things to do!

Of course, after experiencing a 9 year stretch at a stressful job, I think I would prefer taking care of my kids. I would definitely get more satisfaction and less bad stress from doing that.

I understand both sides as I have lived with kids almost all my adult life and have seen the "work" it entails if you are doing it right. I've always worked all my life. Some folks only see one side. Not too many people have lived with children (and been really actively involved in hanging out with them) for +20 years. Thus, they don't get it and may never get it.

I'm sorry to say, but sometimes I see women posting on facebook like every 5 minutes. I wonder what else they could be doing with that time. My mom never had facebook or spa days.

With the internet resources today, there are tons of courses to take online - it's easier than ever!


My stepsons were still living at home, and I was not going to rip the house right out from underneath them


That's how my brother went about it. He was able to keep his house because I agreed to move in with him so that the kids could keep as much stability in their lives as possible (their babysitter was right down the road as well). Moving and a new babysitter on top of mommy leaving wasn't something my bro wanted to put his kids through.

I don't think he gave a whit about his assets in terms of "himself" at the time. His main concern still remains his family.
 QuebecPrincess2
Joined: 1/18/2011
Msg: 689
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/24/2011 11:08:53 AM
jrichardson@zerochaos.com


sometimes it helps for tax purposes
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 690
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/24/2011 2:57:33 PM

Assets that one has prior to marriage are pre-marital,not marital,and theoretically not subject to asset division. There may be situations where gains realized from the during the marital period might be considered a marital asset,and that GAIN subject to division. But the scenario of a person owning a store or a business PRIOR to marriage and then losing half of the entire asset-not just half of the GAIN- in a divorce settlement, is not necessarily going to happen.


Happens all the time. Any assets acquired before marriage if even a small amount is used for marital purposes can then be up for grabs in a divorce.


Thus, generally whenever a person owns an asset before getting married, then this asset is generally excluded from equitable distribution.

However, there are exceptions to every general rule. Lawyers would not make any money in divorce court if there were no legal exceptions to litigate over. The major exception occurs when assets are purchased in contemplation of marriage. If a person uses funds to purchase a home in her or her name, and if the home is then used as the marital home, then some courts could deem the purchase to have been made in "contemplation of marriage".Thus, this once excludable asset could be considered to have been transformed into a marital asset.



What we seem to be hearing from a few people is a paranoia about documentation , shielding ,keeping completely separate finances within the marriage-to the point where much of the intent of marriage( to endeavor TOGETHER for happiness and prosperity) would be obliterated!


Why would it be obliterated? They both had separate assets and accounts before they met. Why must there be any commingling of finances?


I guess my feeling is, if one has that much FEAR-perhaps they should seriously consider permanent singlehood. Again, if there is so much accounting, documenting, lawyering, that the intent of marriage( mutual endeavor for mutual prosperity and happiness) becomes lost,


Yet you seem fine with the same"accounting, documenting, lawyering" during a divorce. Why not get it out of the way to start with when the cost of agreeing is much less for each party?


Nothing wrong with protecting assets previously acquired, clarifying matters of inheritance if there are children from prior marriages, but if it's all done to a degree that serves to CRIPPLE the marriage, then why even GET married. Want to be sure nobody else gets any of your stuff?
Stay single.


Why does it have to "cripple" the marriage? If both agree on the terms and both have legal representation which would have to happen for a prenup to be valid.
They know exactly going in what is and is not martial assets. They can freely agree or disagree to the terms.

Unlike normal divorce that forces a split with a person that is all to often out for blood at that point.

It is hard to see a good reason to marry at this point in my life anyone that is over 40 is most likely no planning on kids. They probably have their kids self supportive by this time in life.

They have those kids to think about. For most people their house and retirement are where most of their assets are they plan on leaving their kids.

Yet even if held before the marriage these assets are normally considered marital assets.


Bank accounts
Household furniture, artwork, household furnishings and collectible items
Retirement Plans, profit sharing, stocks and bonds
Vehicles such as cars and boats
Life Insurance and annuities


And as was pointed out above if a house was bought by just one of the partners anytime close to the marriage it is considered a shared asset.

This is also true in a case where a person owns one house before marriage and sells it during marriage and buys another.
Even though their spouse had no hand what so ever in making the money that paid for the first house the one bought with those same funds are now 50% theirs.

Nothing equatable about that is there?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 691
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/24/2011 9:38:49 PM
Happened across this little gem..


The divorce rate among boomers has jumped recently and that number is only expected to climb. Statistics from the National Center for Family & Marriage Research at Bowling Green State University show that despite the overall divorce rate in the U.S. dropping over the last 20 years, the divorce rate among people age 50 and over has doubled.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/06/23/why-so-many-baby-boomers-are-getting-divorced/#ixzz1QFvMoKJ0

I don't recall the article stating that this was 2nd marriages...but considering that 2nd and 3rd marriages have a higher failure rate, and add in this latest tidbit of info about the divorce rate dropping-except for the 50+ crowd,where it has doubled,I would be inclined to suggest that marriage should be something a mature couple considers VERY carefully, particularly if it would be a 2nd or higher marriage.

Also,noticed recently on one of these "free legal advice forums" a discussion of protecting assets from being taken in a "spend-down" necessary to qualify a spouse in need of nursing home or medically based "assisted living, for MedicAid. MEDICARE does not pay for long-term care. Particularly in the case of mature adults in a 2nd(or more) marriage,apparently attorneys are advising couples faced with one of them going into a long-term care facility, to get a divorce so that the healthier(relatively speaking) spouse does not have their hard earned assets eaten up by long-term care costs. This seems to be an area of legal uncertainty as far as a pre-nup shielding pre- or non-marital assets from long-term care costs.
Just another point to ponder,regarding marriage in the 45+ crowd...seems to me a little bit overly convoluted, to go to the effort and expense of pre-nups,only to end up having to divorce to protect assets from long-term care costs.
Granted, there is longterm care insurance-but that can be expensive, and what that particular branch of the insurance industry might choose to define as "pre-existing condition"-or "exclusionary" conditions,LTC insurance may not be accessible to everyone.
Just something else to be considered when a 45+ couple considers marriage. If it's going to require strict separation of finances, massive prenuptial agreements, and STILL might have to either end in divorce,else see one's hard-earned assets being sucked into the long-term care cost black hole,maybe marriage should be" the road not taken"?
Despite all that...today a co-volunteer at one of my volunteer causes was telling me about being the matron of honor in her sisters' wedding last week. In the next breath she told me about her newest great-great-grandchild. Yes- thats right...2xgrandchild. This recent matron of honor is 92. Her sister, the bride, is 77. ( it is not a first marriage, both the bride and bridegroom were widowed persons)
So,for good or ill, marriages ARE still happening!
Cindy O
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 692
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 6/25/2011 6:09:47 PM


Just another point to ponder,regarding marriage in the 45+ crowd...seems to me a little bit overly convoluted, to go to the effort and expense of pre-nups,only to end up having to divorce to protect assets from long-term care costs.


There are ways of protecting against this as well. Talk to your attorney and they can fill you in I could elaborate but I don't want to make it "all about me!"
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 693
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 7/23/2011 1:02:18 PM

Super. That’s what I’m interested in - the nature of commitment.


Good, then look inside you. I'm sure with little refection on your life this far, you will find examples of commitment which you can focus on, and extract the understanding you seek.



Nobody gets promoted, a pay raise, or pension income accumulated while they are off work for any reason.


Maybe so.

What you are missing is

1) Even if you work, it doesn't mean you will get promoted, or get a pay raise. Those things are not automatic.

2) Many companies hire people on contract... which either has predetermined raises, or no raises at all.

3) Some jobs offer NO promotions or pay raise. Minimum wage jobs in particular usually remain at minimum wage regardless of how long one has been at the job.



If one doesn't work for one, two, three or ten years, for whatever reason, they've permanently lost whatever gains they might have made in that time


Financial gains? May be, may be not.

1) If you are off work for more than a year, I can only conclude you aren't that concerned about your financial security.

2) Time off work does not have to equate to permanent lost. For example, a person can educate them self during this off-work period by saving for their education and planning ahead of time. As a result, such a person can seek a job that now pays 1.5x or 2x more than their last job and make the money they lost within 2-3 years, and after profit from their "time off".

There is no denying that if a person is really concerned about their career, or financial security, kid or no kids, they will find a way to handle both.

There is no written rule that states that "kids=time off work=lost of gains". I wager that for 90% of the cases where "kids=time off work=lost of gains" is true, the person was willingly lazy.

To put in another terms, rather than sacrificing them self, or pushing them self to have both, kids, and a carrier, a person simply decided it is easier to simply just have the kids, and sacrifice their carrier - which is a personal choice. And so, for this choice, no such a person should be compensated.



Their future earnings are negatively impacted, and can never be made up.


Like I said above.



I, personally, think it's rather ridiculous...


So do I.



... but apparently the government doesn't think it's "bullshit" that periods of unemployment have a negative affect on one's future earnings and believe it's appropriate to have the higher earning partner help the lesser-earning partner.


Compassion on the part of the government at the expense of the higher earner. How nice of them!

I'm sure the goverment "thinks" it is a good idea for someone else to pay so it doesn't come out of their pocket. Poor argument if you ask me.



Two guys in my office have taken a year off; one to go back to school and the other to support his wife who had to serve an internship in another city; one woman is off on maternity leave. All three are coming back to the company, but in the year they've been gone, they've lost company contributions to the company pension plan, their government pension plan contributions, wage increases, profit sharing bonus (which many put into the RRSP) and possible advancement within the company. Also, new software and procedures have been implemented while they've been gone; there is no way any of them could be prepared for that, so there again they are behind the rest of the pack in terms of knowledge, experience and positioning for advancement and wage increase within our company.


Suppose it is absolutely true.

You have shown lost. That's it! Now you have to show why they should be compensated. Also you have to show why they should be compensated by the higher earner.



I don't know if the woman you described got a degree in her field of work or changed careers entirely, but who's to say she wouldn't have been farther ahead financially and career wise if she hadn't paused to take care of the kids that both she and her husband both wanted (presumably).


Who is to say she wouldn't get hit by a bus one day going to work? Or who is to say he wouldn't get sick for year? If he gets sick, and then seeks a divorce, she being the higher earner should compensate him?

The decision to stay home was hers. She was working full time previously, and didn't have enough spare time to concentrate on her second degree. She saw having a kid as an opportunity to stay home, which would also allow her the spare time she was looking for. Put it this way, she had a kid, in order to get her second degree.

She could have, of course, taken a part time job, and get her second degree and skip the kid all together. But she wanted a kid, and a kid she got.



If the working parent benefits from having the children, as well as financially and career-wise, from the non-working parents career sacrifice (large or small), why shouldn't that be taken into consideration if the marriage ends?


Because it should be taken into consideration and agreed up on when the marriage starts, not when the marriage ends.

Otherwise it is like a hidden tax.

Also what you seem to ignore is that even without children, the courts award the non-working spouse in a marriage.

More importantly, if the non-working parent wasn't married and was single - perhaps he/she decided to adopt, etc.., such a person never gets paid or compensated for any lost or sacrifice. This is true for a non-working parent who's spouse has just died. Somehow marriage,is the exception. Somehow the marriage license is a license for financial compensation.



If some here would actually recognize that, instead of miscomprehending that it is a device for women to get compensated for having children SHE wanted,or a means for a woman to avoid working for a living,it would make sense.


I think the incomprehension is equal if not worse on your part.

I know, without a doubt, that marriage cannot justify 50/50 split. There is only ONE justification that can, and marriage is not it.

I don't care if a woman marries in order to take advantage of the divorce laws, and I don't care of a woman marries for love and doesn't take a penny from a man. My criticism of marriage would still be the same. Even if every woman on Earth was a saint, and every relationship lasted forever, I would still point out that marriage allows for legal theft.



Both adults also lose out when divorce happens, even if everybody leaves with what they came in with, their income was at par, there are no children, and whatever they gained mutually is split 50/50.


No!

Case in point: A woman gets divorced from an abusive alcoholic the day he begins abuse or starts his alcoholic career. She wins. Go debate that.



There is only ONE reason for getting legally married.
Because you want to, and you are either unafraid of, or fully prepared for, what may happen financially if the marriage fails.


Well, if that is really the reason a person gives them self for getting married, namely, "Because I want to", then I will certain point out the stupid behind their choice. Why? Because I want to! If it is a good justification for marriage, well, f*ck, it is even a better justification for criticism on my part.



So, come to think of it, there are not compelling legal, practical, social, financial, reasons to get married.


No kidding.



That you could make this decision for children that weren't even your own, puts some of the men here crying and whining and worrying about shielding every little penny,to shame.


It also puts to shame, three times more, the women who desire to squeeze out of a man every little penny, to take him to the cleaners.
 UnixGrand
Joined: 5/9/2011
Msg: 694
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 7/25/2011 1:02:37 PM
Now that Gay marriage is now legal in NY, and becoming legal in many other states..... It would be interesting to see the divorce statistics 10 years from now. Will the divorce rates stay the same for heterosexuals, or will they be higher for gay divorcees?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 695
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 7/25/2011 7:32:18 PM
For sure. Homosexuals have fought so long & hard for the right to "enjoy" what we spend so much time denigrating. The grass is always greener, for sure.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 696
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 7/28/2011 4:44:28 AM


If you don’t care to discuss the point than just say so.


I don't care discussing it with you.
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