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 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 176
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?Page 8 of 32    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32)

Above are the most recent statistics for the U.S. census bureau which were taken on Sep 30/09. So far I haven't found any statistics for the number of women paying child support to custodial fathers in the U.S.

So why don't we have more POF women whining about paying alimony and child support to their ex-husbands??? Maybe it's because women don't whine as much as men do, when it comes to their wallets? Yes, they still whine.........but definately not as much as men, in my personal experience. Gads, I dislike whiners..


Hummm funny that you would quote a article that is whining about women paying alimony when you say women don't whine!

See for yourself....http://abcnews.go.com/Business/role-reversal-wives-angry-paying-alimony/story?id=8662940

Wow I do love the tenacity even if your claims are all 180 degrees from the truth.



He got their second house, an investment property she had bought in Costa Rica, and a $96,000 annual alimony payment.

She got angry.

"It's so obscene," said Holly Chiancola, 52, a Gloucester, Mass. real estate agent who is fighting the terms of a divorce settlement ordered by a judge in 2006.





Chiancola said she partly blames Massachusetts' "outdated" divorce laws for her predicament -- she is a supporter of the group Mass Alimony Reform -- but she's also plenty outraged at her husband.

"He went for the jugular, believe me," she said.


Hummm sure seems like whining to me! Funny that she has already joined the frey to reform alimony......This is a very new thing for women to have to do and yet they immediately have said it is unfair.........Hummm seeing as men have been paying alimony for hundreds of years way are they so set against it when the bounds of the law allow it to fall as their responsibility?

Seems like they don't want to be equal as they claim.



 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 177
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/23/2011 11:18:16 PM


The number of American men receiving alimony has climbed, from 7,000 in 1998 to 13,000 last year, according to U.S. Census Bureau data


So why don't we have more POF women whining about paying alimony and child support to their ex-husbands???



Because you have better chance of getting hit by lighting than come across a woman who pays alimony. In fact you have a better chance of winning the lottery AND getting hit by lighting than to find a woman who pays alimony on POF.



If it flies, floats or f_cks it is cheaper to rent it.


Not to mention you can rent the newer models as soon as they come out.



Chiancola said she partly blames Massachusetts' "outdated" divorce laws for her predicament -- she is a supporter of the group Mass Alimony Reform -- but she's also plenty outraged at her husband.

"He went for the jugular, believe me," she said.


Oh, she didn't want to lose any of her possessions? Who would've thought?

People just love to get their shit taken away from them, don't they?

I have now figured out how to beat the system... and this is how you do it:

Rather than getting married, find a woman you don't like, and give her your house - oh wait...that's no different from marriage. Scratch that.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 178
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 2:08:24 AM
Here is an interesting article. It's kind of lengthy, so I will just point out some (imo) key points.

http://www.edmecka.com/blogs/dont-marry-essay---why-marriage-has-become-a-raw-deal-for-men.html

Despite this reality, many women come into a marriage with very little assets, and often, are saddled with substantial debt. In general, men are the ones who save and invest. (Don't believe me? Count the number of women of marrying age you know who subscribe to Fortune, Forbes, or Money magazine) A significant number of 20 and 30-something women spend most of their disposable income on luxury rental apartments, upscale restaurants, frequent exotic vacations, leased cars, spa treatments, and excessive amounts of clothing, purses, shoes, etc. Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly. (Yet ironically, in the media, men are the ones who are portrayed as reckless, irresponsible spendthrifts)


If a husband loses his job and is having trouble finding work, the wife is justified in threatening to leave him. However, can you imagine the reaction if a husband threatened to leave a wife who was in the exact same position?? He would be crucified! If a man loses his job, the woman is justified in resenting the fact that the financial burden lies on her. However, when is a man allowed to resent this very same predicament? If a man is laid off and cares for the household/kids, while the wife is working, he can be accused of not pulling his weight! Yet this is exactly the same situation that women demand more recognition for!! Either role the man plays, he loses!

"Assets accumulated prior to a marriage are exempt from a divorce." Yes, in theory. However, real life dictates otherwise. If funds from an account are commingled, it can become marital property. If even a dime from an account is spent towards the marriage, it can be considered marital property. Buy your child a lollypop from your own account, and a good lawyer will take 1/2 of it for your ex-wife when you divorce. If a woman moves into a home the man owned prior to the marriage, it is not safe from divorce. If she so much as hangs up a sheet of wallpaper, the home is now classified as marital property, and is subject to equal division. (Worse actually, the man can be ejected from the home) Is this fair?

It's interesting, when looking at the replies, how many male and female replies say that this dude is right on the money. And most of the people who disagree don't actually address any of his points.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 179
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 7:16:50 AM

So why don't we have more POF women whining about paying alimony and child support to their ex-husbands??? Maybe it's because women don't whine as much as men do, when it comes to their wallets?


That article makes it pretty clear that women whine about giving their money to men as much or more when they split. Nice try, though.

I know one woman who had to pay out when she kicked her husband to the curb. It cost her about $70,000 and, man, was she ever pissed off. They'd only been together a couple of years, but the real estate prices went through the roof during that time. I felt for her, but, hey, it happens to men all the time.

I've been saying for years that when women have to start paying CS and alimony as often as men do, then the laws will change...

.... we just can't have the little ladies unhappy, after all....


Because you have better chance of getting hit by lighting than come across a woman who pays alimony. In fact you have a better chance of winning the lottery AND getting hit by lighting than to find a woman who pays alimony on POF.


Yup....

.... but if you DO find one, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that she ain't happy about paying.

(Good to see you around a bit more, x)

Cheers.

 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 180
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 7:24:24 AM
If it flies, floats or f_cks it is cheaper to rent it.

that's funny! i'll keep that in mind and go for 2 out of 3.... i'll pass on the f_ck, please.... so monotonous. ok! where's the King Air?


What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?

having kids, of course!!


What Are The Reasons For Having Kids?

[................long pause.]
can't think of any.... you?


If a husband loses his job and is having trouble finding work, the wife is justified in threatening to leave him. However, can you imagine the reaction if a husband threatened to leave a wife who was in the exact same position?? He would be crucified! If a man loses his job, the woman is justified in resenting the fact that the financial burden lies on her.

this only works for people who have certain presuppositions and double standards anyway, not to mention shitty relationship and conflict resolution skills, so i'm not persuaded by such hollow and facile arguments. cue the whining women who will say, "oh but everybody knows how we are so often underpaid relative to men so what are men complaining about really?....." how long did it take for them to show up at the party?


A significant number of 20 and 30-something women spend most of their disposable income on luxury rental apartments, upscale restaurants, frequent exotic vacations, leased cars, spa treatments, and excessive amounts of clothing, purses, shoes, etc. Are all women like this? No. Could this be your future wife? Possibly.

...AS IF her personality, character, and spending habits were a complete unknown. somewhere in there was THE MAN'S CHOICE to marry her anyway. "he got what he came for". her collection of fuck-me shoes only bothered him after the fact?? LOL.


If she so much as hangs up a sheet of wallpaper, the home is now classified as marital property, and is subject to equal division. (Worse actually, the man can be ejected from the home) Is this fair?

oh cry me a freakin river. who said divorce is "fair"? was it "fair" when my ex took the car, emptied my bank account and then skipped town? marital property laws vary widely by state and how much money you have to spend on lawyers. ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.
 viper1j
Joined: 11/30/2005
Msg: 181
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 8:08:58 AM

He got their second house, an investment property she had bought in Costa Rica, and a $96,000 annual alimony payment.

She got angry.

"It's so obscene," said Holly Chiancola, 52, a Gloucester, Mass. real estate agent who is fighting the terms of a divorce settlement ordered by a judge in 2006.


Pure equality!

"Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty, we're free at last!" --- MLK
 chisel_st_virile
Joined: 5/20/2011
Msg: 182
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 8:15:02 AM

What Are The Reasons For Having Kids?

[................long pause.]
can't think of any.... you?

Sure, they're like pets that provide cheap household labor, potentially income, potentially make the world a better place, can come up with new technology, and where if you raise them "right," they will help change your diapers and your colostomy bag, provide succor and comfort, when your mind and body are deteriorating past the point of independence and self sufficiency. They can help provide security in your life.

They also provide a purpose other than pure selfish gratification, rationalized hedonism.
I know my great grandma lived to be over 100. She had 6 kids. 4 of which were seriously schizophrenic. All 4 lived with her. She took care of them for more than 60 years.
Less than a month after the last one of the 4 she took care of died, so did she. Her health, lifestyle, and habits didn't change. She just felt ready to die when she wasn't needed anymore.
Personally, I think it's the same phenomenon as when old people are given pets, and they (the old people) live longer and are happier.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 183
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 9:19:32 AM
^^^ well i'm all for easy opportunities at sacrilege but i don't think what you said is really an example of that, consigliori. and those are good answers to my facetious rhetorical question. i'll stipulate but would disagree if anyone is actually suggesting is that having kids is a magical cure-all for "pure selfish gratification, rationalized hedonism". such people should be the last ones on earth to burden themselves with marriage and/or becoming a parent, but i especially like the idea of cheap household labor. ;)
 NewToTN9
Joined: 11/12/2010
Msg: 184
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 9:24:27 AM
So why don't we have more POF women whining about paying alimony and child support to their ex-husbands??? Maybe it's because women don't whine as much as men do, when it comes to their wallets?

Simple. Because the wast majority, say 99%, of women on POF does not pay child support or aliminoy. They are the recipient thereof. It is also amazing to see how the very rare cases when a woman is ordered to pay alimony are considered news worthy in the sensationalist press.

I know one woman who had to pay out when she kicked her husband to the curb. It cost her about $70,000 and, man, was she ever pissed off. They'd only been together a couple of years, but the real estate prices went through the roof during that time. I felt for her, but, hey, it happens to men all the time.

Sure with the exception that she would have been the party kicked out of her own house if she was a man.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 185
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 10:17:53 AM

but i especially like the idea of cheap household labor. ;)

Not sure if anyone would consider the cost of raising a child as "cheap"
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 186
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 1:05:02 PM
^^^good point!

segue..... child support.....

it is, of course, always appropriate and usually enforced strictly based on documented income no matter who has custody of the kids. back in the day when i got divorced, enforcement was lax to non-existent. courts will usually award primary custody to mothers and most fathers are usually happier with that arrangement than the alternative, but sometimes the dad gets the kids and then guess what... mommy has to pay just like anybody else would.

it's nobody's fault but your own if you now despise the person you were so eager to marry X years ago, so suck it up and live with it but that doesn't relieve you from your legal obligations. not pointing at any particular person here, but this particular distinction seems to be lost on a lot of the people complaining about the unfairness of their own commitments.

if you didn't want to bear the burden of supporting your own children regardless of the circumstances, then you should have kept your junk in your pants. simple.

i'm all in favor of eliminating alimony except under specific circumstances for a limited period of time. i've known lots of divorced/divorcing people but only known maybe a handful that received alimony but it was temporary or "pendente lite". don't get divorced in massachusetts; they still have a provision for "permanent" alimony. ugh.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 187
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 9:08:35 PM
O.K.....I'm back, but only for a few minutes while Mr. RoadRunner is preening his feathers. He's such a handsome old bird

Anyway, took a look at post 210 by mrs84 and I think there are a lot of valid points in his post. Like if the husband looses his job or becomes ill for an extended length of time, some women see this as a reason to leave the marriage. I actually know of a situation just like that, but I don't know the complete story or if she had any other additional reasons for divorcing. I have to say that I really lost my respect for her after she changed the locks on the house and told her husband to never come back.

My point is that every marital situation is different, and each divorce trial is based upon the same criteria to determine how assets are distributed, what alimony or spousal support is to be paid and what child support is to be paid. I guess it's after the divorce...........when people see their ex living the life of Riley, that bitterness can sometimes overcome them.

But other people in the know say "The Best Revenge, is to Live Well and Live Better than You did Before."

Mr. RoadRunner is getting a little beaky now, so I better go pay some attention to him.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 188
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History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/24/2011 10:06:43 PM
How did the topic of marriage segue in to cs? Child support has nothing to do with marriage.


Not just no but HELL NO! The man gets plenty!

She gets the kids, he gets the C$ payments.
She gets the house, he gets the mortgage.
She gets the car(s), he gets the loan payments.
She gets the mine, he gets the shaft!
He gets the stuff nobody not only doesn't want, but wouldn't wish on their worst enemy.


As to the above, please, spare me! He, far more often than not, doesn't want the kids.
This is the 21st century. Alimony is not only NOT a given, it is not likely, just as unlikely that a man, post divorce, is stuck with paying for a house he does not live in. Such arrangements are for those who agree, MUTUALLY, that one parent will remain in the marital home until the youngest child reaches a certain age, whereupon the proceeds of the sale of that home are split.
Your words are fallacious and have no basis in fact.

That having been said, statements of fact are not necessarily whining. The article cited a bit earlier is not, however a presentation of factual data, merely an article presenting an opinion. The reasons for entering in to marriage are particular to those who choose to do so, period.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 189
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 6:57:27 AM

My point is that every marital situation is different, and each divorce trial is based upon the same criteria to determine how assets are distributed, what alimony or spousal support is to be paid and what child support is to be paid.


No way is the same consideration given the woman in a divorce extended to the man.

ie....
Generous, caring men who spoil their wives should certainly think twice about how this generosity can later be used against them. The phrase used in divorce court is "She has become accustomed to a certain lifestyle". A husband's reward for spoiling his wife today is the legal obligation to spoil her indefinitely. Buy her a luxury car today, and you may be obligated to buy her luxury cars after she leaves for you for another man! Yet...imagine a husband that became accustomed to eating a home cooked dinner prepared by his wife. Now imagine the courts obligate the ex-wife to continue cooking for him and his new girlfriend each night, despite being divorced! Inconceivable, but it happens the other way around every day!



I guess it's after the divorce...........when people see their ex living the life of Riley, that bitterness can sometimes overcome them.

But other people in the know say "The Best Revenge, is to Live Well and Live Better than You did Before."


This you are correct about.

I have been able to do just that. Twice as a matter of fact.

How I WAS LUCKY.

The state I lived in allowed adultery as a ground for divorce. Many don't.

Even with adultery as a ground it normally wouldn't be a factor in the division of assets.

The reason it helped me was the "up standing women" I was married to didn't want their "GOOD NAME" drug through the mud of a public trial detailing their indiscretions.

They decided it was better to accept almost nothing in the divorces.

After the second time I wised up.

The system "lawyers" are getting paid for "getting women what they "deserve."
None of them want the system to change and actually be fair there is no money in that.....for them.

So how does a man protect himself?

A pre nup is the best way. Even that needs to be kept current as the lawyers will get it thrown out if it is not.


Prenups
If a man insists on a prenup, he is selfish and unromantic. However, when is the last time a woman who demanded a prenup was called "unromantic"? On the contrary, if a woman requests a prenup, she is fiscally responsible and looking out for herself. (Note: If your fiancée refuses to sign a prenup, she has just shown her hand...) Why is it that a woman can refuse a prenup, and it's accepted. In reality, the man should be outraged that she is after a legal contract, and not love.


They balk at pre nups saying why should they sign a contract to get married. Yet expect a man to sign the marriage contract that is loaded against him.

A double standard?.........YA THINK!


As to the above, please, spare me! He, far more often than not, doesn't want the kids.


I disagree most if given the chance would take custody of their kids.

Are their some that don't want them? Sure.....probably about the same number of women that doesn't want them.


This is the 21st century. Alimony is not only NOT a given, it is not likely, just as unlikely that a man, post divorce, is stuck with paying for a house he does not live in.


Happens every day in the US. I don't know of any man that wouldn't rather sell the home and split the money at the time of the divorce.


Your words are fallacious and have no basis in fact.


Actually they are based in facts.....Facts that are documented in each divorce case that demands a man to subsidize a woman's accustomed way of life after a divorce.


That having been said, statements of fact are not necessarily whining. The article cited a bit earlier is not


I didn't say the article was whining.....I said the women in it was.

ie....
He got their second house, an investment property she had bought in Costa Rica, and a $96,000 annual alimony payment.

She got angry.

"It's so obscene," said Holly Chiancola, 52, a Gloucester, Mass. real estate agent who is fighting the terms of a divorce settlement ordered by a judge in 2006.


Sounds like whining to me!


The article cited a bit earlier is not, however a presentation of factual data, merely an article presenting an opinion.


Yes citing an opinion of alimony is "outdated" Something I have said for a long time.
I was told I was wrong and was just bitter.

Lets look at the lady's words about the alimony she was ordered to pay.


Chiancola said she partly blames Massachusetts' "outdated" divorce laws for her predicament -- she is a supporter of the group Mass Alimony Reform -- but she's also plenty outraged at her husband.

"He went for the jugular, believe me," she said.


Many times women here have said that soon the scales will balance and women will be paying men as well.

I said that when that STARTED to happen the women would balk and start to demand the laws to change. I was ridiculed for that......Hummmm seems I may have been clairvoyant!

Because that is exactly what is happening.


The reasons for entering in to marriage are particular to those who choose to do so, period.


Agreed so why is it a problem when men arm themselves with the tools needed to protect themselves the same way the current marriage laws protect women?

Notice the news source that reported the females paying alimony.....ABC.....Not some woman hating wed site.
But a very liberal news source.

Why is it news when a woman has to pay alimony and the thousands of men that are ordered to is not news worthy?

The question of this thread is...
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?


To make a informed decision shouldn't both genders have the facts of what happens?


This writing seeks to educate men about the realities of what he may be getting himself into when he marries. An informed decision is less likely to be one that is later regretted. The intent is not to dissuade men from marrying, but to encourage them in communicating frankly their concerns and expectations of marriage with their potential spouses. The aim of this writing is to also enlighten women with some of the reasons why increasing numbers of successful eligible unmarried men, who otherwise prefer monogamous long-term relationships, are turning their backs on marriage.


This article should be required reading for both genders.

http://www.edmecka.com/blogs/dont-marry-essay---why-marriage-has-become-a-raw-deal-for-men.html

Then both can decide if they think it is really worth it.....And be sure that both are treated fairly if it should go south.

Information is power!
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 190
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 8:35:29 AM
This article should be required reading for both genders.

http://www.edmecka.com/blogs/dont-marry-essay---why-marriage-has-become-a-raw-deal-for-men.html


As far as I can see..................it has always been a raw deal for women, going as far back to the very day the institution of marriage was created.

There isn't a doubt in my my mind, that if men could collect court-ordered alimony/spousal support and or child support and not have to provide the day to day care and control for their children, they would happily and without conscience do it without a second thought for the mother of their children. Even my father and bro agree with me on that note!!!

Prenuptual agreements probably wouldn't be any better than the laws governing the institution of marriage in a court of law. But what would significantly help is for the couple to discuss a life/lifestyle plan before they hook up. If either one tries to down-play the others' status in the relationship...........run fast and hard, and if either one interferes with the others' livelihood without some form of compensation........run even faster. We live in a society where money is a requirement for all people to live comfortably.

Again, I think marriage isn't the problem...........PEOPLE are. My parents have been happily married for 43 years, but that doesn't mean they didn't have some rough patches or disagreements with each other.
 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 191
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 11:57:10 AM

As far as I can see..................it has always been a raw deal for women, going as far back to the very day the institution of marriage was created.


Maybe during the middle ages......Now it is a great deal......Tell me what other way do you know of that a woman can not have a paying job and still get 50% or more of assets just by quitting?

No job (as you claim a marriage is to a woman) gives the the person 50% of the company assets to leave and then continues to pay them years after they quit!


There isn't a doubt in my my mind, that if men could collect court-ordered alimony/spousal support and or child support and not have to provide the day to day care and control for their children, they would happily and without conscience do it without a second thought for the mother of their children. Even my father and bro agree with me on that note!!!


That has to be one of the saddest statement I have ever read. That is really a shame!

Now the alimony I can say without doubt no one would want to pay....Even the ladies in the article YOU quoted here.

The fathers I know would never let one of their kids do w/o a need. And provides most of their wants!

I know personally I was able to save money by raising my children which I used some of to give them a jump start on life. ie a car for each and a saving account that helped with the emergencies of life were just a couple of things I was able to do for them. Had I been forced to continue paying child support I wouldn't have had that chance.

I paid for these out of the money I would have paid in child support.....Tell me have you ever heard of the support paid to the absent parent available to the kids? Didn't think so!
That is why I say exorbitant c/s payments are NOT in the best interest of the children.


Again, I think marriage isn't the problem...........PEOPLE are.


I have already agreed with this. Again the reason to arm oneself with pertinent info on what can happen and decide if the risk is worth it.

To borrow a phrase from you.....There will be no cheese with your whine!
 Snappy_Turtle
Joined: 2/27/2011
Msg: 192
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 7:27:35 PM
Healthcare benefits were a consideration for me, and were for some, even before the recession etc. Generally, you are barred from naming a life partner (unless they are the same gender) on a health insurance policy without the marriage certificate.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 193
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 8:05:44 PM
For the Children.

A pre-nuptial legal agreement is also important to protect the rights of both partners and the children.


In a second, third or fourth marriage/common-law relationship or however many times one wants to take the plunge into even murkier and formidable waters. I almost said yes to a marriage proposal a few years back............what a brain fart that was!! :laugh:

We talked about our future together and got as far as "Our Last Will & Testament." He had 3 children and I had zero. He said he was going to leave his 50% to his children and thought that I should leave my 50% to him & his children as well. It sounded like a great plot for "A Murder Mystery Novel " to me.

So if he died first and I was an old, frail woman..........his children would force me into selling our home so they could get their father's share of the money out and if I died before him............he and his children would become the winners of my demise.
He was forgetting that I had family that I cared about too, but according to him.........him and his children should be considered more important than any members of my family.

Well, I guess you know what my response was to that idea
Yup, I ran and never looked back, even my bro couldn't run fast enough to catch up with me.

That's when I met Mr. RoadRunner, he was running along the same stretch of road.....and that's how we became the best of pals ever since.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 194
view profile
History
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 8:31:15 PM

I didn't say the article was whining.....I said the women in it was


I never indicated that you accused the article of whining, and I find your misquote to be a thinly veiled attempt to promote an agenda. What I actually said was:
"That having been said, statements of fact are not necessarily whining. The article cited a bit earlier is not, however a presentation of factual data, merely an article presenting an opinion. The reasons for entering in to marriage are particular to those who choose to do so, period."

Stating facts is NOT whining; the article was not a statement of fact, it was stating an opinion.

I think any of us who have had occasion to experience divorce court is aware that the one with the most money for legal counsel prevails. The FACT is that the vast majority of custody decisions are made by the parties involved, not the courts. Lots of things happen every day in the US; murder, rape, theft, but that doesn't mean that they are the "norm". Alimony is not a given anymore, and there are indeed men who choose to & refuse to sell the marital home & split the profits, despite the what may be ill effects on the children, just as there are women who refuse to acknowledge that their childrens father has been a good parent & can expect to remain so, without exorbitant agreements put in place by court order.
I don't know of any man that wouldn't rather sell the home and split the money at the time of the divorce.

Just because you don't personally know any men who wouldn't make that choice doesn't mean that none exist. My ex refused to sell our home at the time of divorce & split the proceeds, and he wasn't being asked to pay any of the mortgage. That is a fact, pure & simple, but it doesn't make "men don't agree to sell their homes & split the profits with the ex" a factual statement. In any case, such instances are human action, not a function of the legal system.

I simply find it annoying that you continue to state your own personal experience as if it were fact based as a whole while at the same time falsely suggesting that any other statement is blatantly false or gender biased. Adultery most certainly is grounds for divorce in many states, and even those states which offer the option of no fault divorce also allow the option of divorce "on the grounds of". It does not behoove the majority of those seeking divorce to sue on grounds of adultery and that is why it is not often used as many can not afford to pursue an accusation that can be difficult to prove.



To make a informed decision shouldn't both genders have the facts of what happens?


Certainly both genders should have facts, but "the facts" regarding what happened to YOU are not necessarily the facts.


Agreed so why is it a problem when men arm themselves with the tools needed to protect themselves the same way the current marriage laws protect women?


Who has said that having knowledge or researching facts (REAL facts, not pof postings) is a problem? The problem lies with the presentation as "arming themselves". I think you are alluding to divorce laws rather than marriage laws, but no matter. It is not the laws that are the real issue here; it is the misuse of the legal system. The law doesn't state that women are to be granted alimony, nor does it state that women are given custody. That either of those occur at any rate at all is both the result of agreements between the two parties involved, and, in the event of a legal battle, a decision made based on evidence presented before the court or a by product of running out of funds with which to fight. For the party granted alimony, more likely than not, they are hardly the one with the most cash to lay out for a good attorney.

Again, much of this is really outside of, if not necessarily off topic of the discussion regarding the reasons some decide to legally marry, but we should at least present facts as facts & personal experiences as such rather than give false impressions. On a personal level, I would not advocate marriage, although I admit to being old enough to still feel uncomfortable with the idea of having children outside of marriage. I can at least admit, though, that my view of marriage is due to my own experiences & has no basis in facts surrounding the institution itself, and certainly no implications regarding the opposite gender. Marriage is a social institution, a legal contract & a personal decision, not a legally based trap for men, and that is a fact.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 195
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/25/2011 10:16:27 PM
Sure with the exception that she would have been the party kicked out of her own house if she was a man.

Not necessarily. In my first marriage, my ex kept the house, a car, the furniture, the burial plots, the land in Florida, and the stock portfolio. I got an 8 year old car with 165,000 miles, the furniture I'd paid for with a babysitting job, $5,000 cash, two children, and $225 month child support. He got to claim them on his income tax. He's still living in the house which is worth about a third of a million bucks.

Second marriage, I got the house, which I'd put the down payment on, paid the closing costs, and shared payments for ten years. He got 100% of his 401K which was worth about double the house. His choice. No alimony or child support (no kids).

I didn't and don't resent either of them. In fact, am friends with both. I left one, the other left me. Ya pays yer muny and ya takes yer choice.

I would be curious to know if any of the fellas who got so badly taken paid any attention to brains, character, and/or spirituality before plunking down the $2 for the wedding license? Or was she simply "hawt"?



 cap_n_mORGAN
Joined: 7/3/2009
Msg: 196
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/26/2011 11:13:27 AM

I never indicated that you accused the article of whining, and I find your misquote to be a thinly veiled attempt to promote an agenda. What I actually said was:
"That having been said, statements of fact are not necessarily whining. The article cited a bit earlier is not, however a presentation of factual data, merely an article presenting an opinion. The reasons for entering in to marriage are particular to those who choose to do so, period."


No Facts huh? Lets see......


Now, as more women become primary breadwinners, the complaints increasingly come from them. The number of American men receiving alimony has climbed, from 7,000 in 1998 to 13,000 last year, according to U.S. Census Bureau data


That sounds like facts to me.


He got their second house, an investment property she had bought in Costa Rica, and a $96,000 annual alimony payment.

She got angry.

"It's so obscene," said Holly Chiancola, 52, a Gloucester, Mass. real estate agent who is fighting the terms of a divorce settlement ordered by a judge in 2006.


Soooo an order from the judge is an opinion? I always thought a court order was a fact.....Seems as ms Chiancola takes it as fact as she is fighting the law that enabled the judge to make her pay.


Earlier this year, a British judge ruled that Elena Bowes Marano should pay her ex, real estate tycoon Peter Marano, 5 million pounds (about $8 million) after his property portfolio dwindled in value -- an order that Elena, originally from a wealthy California family, is fighting.


Sure seems like this is more facts the judge ordered it she is fighting it. Both facts!


The FACT is that the vast majority of custody decisions are made by the parties involved, not the courts.


Really would you provide the source of these facts you claim?

While the article did present facts this is your opinion only.

The courts are used every day in thousands of cities across America alone.

I have set on a divorce case before as a juror.


Just because you don't personally know any men who wouldn't make that choice doesn't mean that none exist. My ex refused to sell our home at the time of divorce & split the proceeds, and he wasn't being asked to pay any of the mortgage. That is a fact, pure & simple, but it doesn't make "men don't agree to sell their homes & split the profits with the ex" a factual statement. In any case, such instances are human action, not a function of the legal system.


I said I didn't known any that wouldn't I didn't say all.

And the courts order the man to pay the mortgage on the house his ex stays in all the time.


I simply find it annoying that you continue to state your own personal experience as if it were fact based as a whole while at the same time falsely suggesting that any other statement is blatantly false or gender biased. Adultery most certainly is grounds for divorce in many states, and even those states which offer the option of no fault divorce also allow the option of divorce "on the grounds of". It does not behoove the majority of those seeking divorce to sue on grounds of adultery and that is why it is not often used as many can not afford to pursue an accusation that can be difficult to prove.


Did you read all of my statement?

I also said.....
The state I lived in allowed adultery as a ground for divorce. Many don't.

Even with adultery as a ground it normally wouldn't be a factor in the division of assets.

The reason it helped me was the "up standing women" I was married to didn't want their "GOOD NAME" drug through the mud of a public trial detailing their indiscretions.

They decided it was better to accept almost nothing in the divorces.


Did you notice where I said .....
Even with adultery as a ground it normally wouldn't be a factor in the division of assets.

The reason it helped me was the "up standing women" I was married to didn't want their "GOOD NAME" drug through the mud of a public trial detailing their indiscretions.


The fact in my case was the only reason my ex's DIDN"T get 50% or more was I had the facts to expose their infidelity!

As I said I was lucky they didn't want to be exposed for what they were.

This is why I support pre nups!



Certainly both genders should have facts, but "the facts" regarding what happened to YOU are not necessarily the facts.


Nope because I was lucky however I realize I am an exception and not the norm That is why I think this article should be required reading.


http://www.edmecka.com/blogs/dont-marry-essay---why-marriage-has-become-a-raw-deal-for-men.html


If read closely I said the article should be read not the facts of my particular case.



Who has said that having knowledge or researching facts (REAL facts, not pof postings) is a problem?


As I said above I haven't proposed pof postings as facts. However the articles that were posted by others are very good sources of facts to arm both parties with.


I think you are alluding to divorce laws rather than marriage laws, but no matter. It is not the laws that are the real issue here; it is the misuse of the legal system.


Exactly and the women are the benefactors of the abuse!


What is astounding is the hypocrisy of the reaction towards prenups. Women can conveniently assert that a man is unromantic if he suggests a prenup. After all, how can a man pollute true love with signing of legal paperwork! However, what is a marriage contract? Women do not seem to balk at signing this legal paperwork, which entitles her to at least half the money a man earns, and obligates him to support her if the event of a breakup. Why aren't men allowed to note how unromantic this contract is?



Again, much of this is really outside of, if not necessarily off topic of the discussion regarding the reasons some decide to legally marry, but we should at least present facts as facts & personal experiences as such rather than give false impressions.


I have presented facts and the sources they came from so others can read and find the truth of what can happen in marriage and divorce.

You saying I am presenting personal experience as fact is just your spin on my words for your agenda.

BTW the question was what are the reasons to get married so researching what happens in the demise of marriages so a more informed is surly on topic.


Marriage is a social institution, a legal contract & a personal decision, not a legally based trap for men, and that is a fact.


Nope that is your opinion.


The ultimate insult, however, comes when the man loses half of his life's assets even when she has decided to leave him. Yes, a wife can kick a man out of his own home, and have the courts force him to continue paying the bills, while she is sleeping with her new boyfriend in the very house the husband worked to buy! She can spend her alimony check on gifts for her new boyfriend! Are all women like this? No. Does the legal system support a woman who does feel entitled to this? Yes.

The risks are clear, but what exactly are men getting out of marriage? Many times, the reasons men get married are unfounded.


See the things that back this up is when men are ordered to pay alimony it doesn't make the news. However when women are ordered to pay ABC sees fit to do a story on it.

Tell me why is what is an every day happenstance for one gender is a national news worthy event for the other?


I would be curious to know if any of the fellas who got so badly taken paid any attention to brains, character, and/or spirituality before plunking down the $2 for the wedding license? Or was she simply "hawt"?


I wasn't taken.....However in my case yes I did look at the whole woman which just says that as much protection as can be used.

Seeing as women choose men that can provide for them. The court system is their assurance of that provision......Why shouldn't a man be able to know the provisions he makes are safe as well?

A prenup would limit any pay out to a level that both agree on before the relationship goes south and the fangs come out.

I really don't see where a prenup is bad. It has to be agreed on by both parties before any legal or financial entanglements are incurred.

The only reason to deny one is someone wants more if the marriage fails which is about a 45% chance for the first and goes up substantially thereafter.

Do some research see what gender files the most for divorce.

I am not against women I am not even against marriage.

I am against the lopsided laws that allow someone to subsidize their life with their former spouse's money.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 197
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/26/2011 4:14:20 PM
Both "ohwhynot46" and "mjyawn67" have made some great points and I think that we are all sincere in seeking a resolution that is suitable to everyone, so I am going to make other few points...........

Let's turn myjyawn 67's comment around from a male perspective to a female perspective first:

Do some research see which gender accuses the other of mental/emotional and physical abuse before filing for divorce

I am not against men I am not even against marriage.

I am against the lopsided laws that allow someone to subsidize their life with their former spouse's free time and hard work which was valued at zero dollars for the entire marriage and they now enjoy a small fortune that is valued at $xxx,xxx.00.

***********************************

And my real life example is as follows:

Husband & Wife farming operation.......

The down payment for the farm land was 60% of the wifes's money and the other 40% was the husband's money. The husband worked another full-time job elsewhere during the winter months to subsidize the farm operation..........but was fully devoted to the farm during the spring, summer and fall months. The farm consisted of beef cattle, so the wife took care of the winter cattle feeding and newborns in calving season. The couple had a young son to provide for as well.

As the marriage progressed Mr. was spending more and more of his time with his drinking buddies during the spring, summer and fall months when the farming operation was going full-tilt with crops, chickens and a few pigs. More and more of the work load fell on Mrs. who also took care of their small son, typically 24/7. Except for the odd time that Mr. would take his son fishing. Mrs. was becoming outraged because she was stressed to her limits, trying to keep the farm operating while Mr. was using more and more of the farm money for alcohol and spending more time with his drinking buddies or chatting it up with the neighbors.

In spite of it all.....the farming operation was a success, but Mrs. kept a daily log of the hours Mr. spent farming and the hours she spent farming as well as the hours of quality time she spent with their son. She also spent long hours at the local farmers market selling eggs, fresh cuts of meat, baking and fresh produce.

Mrs. had a farming accident and she was laid up for 2 months and the farming operation started to financially spiral downward. Mr. behaved the same as he always had. When Mrs. recovered, she filed for divorce because she found out that Mr. had so much spare time on his hands..............that he had time to pursue an affair with a married woman who lived in town.



Out of curiosity, and if YOU were the divorce judge for this particular divorce........what would you award the spouse's in this case?? How would you determine who gets what?
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 198
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/26/2011 4:45:15 PM
Mrs. had a farming accident and she was laid up for 2 months and the farming operation started to financially spiral downward. Mr. behaved the same as he always had. When Mrs. recovered, she filed for divorce because she found out that Mr. had so much spare time on his hands..............that he had time to pursue an affair with a married woman who lived in town.



Out of curiosity, and if YOU were the divorce judge for this particular divorce........what would you award the spouse's in this case?? How would you determine who gets what?


I'd award her her part (half) of the farm, but she'd have to support Mr. in the life-style to which he was accustomed, which was partying with his buds and bangin' whoever he wanted.

She was laid up for a while, but that's no fvcking excuse these days. She could have controlled the whole farm with remote control farming equipmentt from a laptop while she lounged around in bed rather than waste time on Farmville and other stupid games on Facebook.

She should feel blessed that she got even more time to spend with the kid, though I'd probably give custody to Mr. since she was too busy with her farm duties to actually spend the 24/7 that she tried to bullshit the me, the judge, into believing.

So mote it be.

Edit:

As judge, I think I need to add a couple of amendments as I think about this complicated sitution.

Not only should Mrs. pay out Mr. in cash for half the farm and keep him in the life-style he's been accustomed to by paying him monthly, Mrs. ought to also pay Mr. 50% of all future profits from the farm....

... after all, she may resort to some high paying activities like marijuana cultivation or something like that, which is very lucrative.

CS, of course, needs to be based on the potential value of any future profits the Mrs. may produce. She's clearly shown that she is capable of increasing productivity.

That's it for now, but this is likely not my final judgement.....

... I really think Mrs. is holding something back....



 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 199
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/26/2011 5:34:27 PM
O.K....capitano has made a partial judgement

Mr. has custody of the child..........does Mrs. have any visitation rights and if so, what are they?

Are you saying the farm and assets are to be sold or that Mrs. should pay Mr. for his half of the land and she remains farming? Or, should the land and assets be divided in half and both remain farming?

What do you think Mrs. is holding back?
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 200
What Are The Reasons For Getting Legally Married?
Posted: 5/26/2011 6:55:48 PM

Mr. has custody of the child..........does Mrs. have any visitation rights and if so, what are they?


Well, of COURSE she can have visitation, but she isn't allowed to stipulate that the kids bring their Wellingtons since that's an obvious indication that she's going to put them to work mucking rather than playing online games.


Are you saying the farm and assets are to be sold or that Mrs. should pay Mr. for his half of the land and she remains farming?


After a lot of deliberation, I think it's in the best interests of everyone involved that Mrs. pays out Mr. for half of the current value of the assets with an option for Mr. to nail her for any future increase in value to said property.

And, speaking of nailing, I think that Mr. should be allowed to nail Mrs. anytime he wants since it was part of the original agreement, biblically speaking, of the life-style he was accustomed to. Nailing is important and a matter of life or death.

This is only fair since she clearly drove him to a point where he could no longer work day to day.

As to what she is obviously hiding, that will come out when she gets grilled on the stand.

Personally, I suspect it has something to do with strange desires involving farm animals, by my "eyes on scene" with the vid cam will have to bring it home before I can make a final determination.





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