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 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 416
Stephen Hawking: God Did Not Create the UniversePage 19 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

I'm not trying to argue whether these things happened or not.
I'm simply sharing that there are a lot of people in the scientific community who think these assertions are true


Why the rejection of the notion that there was a world-wide flood? Typically atheists reject the notion because it says so in the Bible.Where does the notion come from then? Why did they write about it? Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maoris and I believe American Indians all have passed down stories of a devastating flood at some point in history.Might have been local floods.Who knows.No one knows for sure if there was a world-wide flood.

But it is curious that ancient people wrote about such an event and have passed down sories about such a thing happening.


There is also very little evidence to suggest that the Kingdom of David ever existed (we only have one piece of evidence, which mentions a "house of David") and not a single trace of Solomon's great empire


Haven't they found evidence that Solomon's temple actually existed?
 notdating-forumsonly
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 417
Stephen Hawking: God Did Not Create the Universe
Posted: 1/7/2013 6:28:24 PM
By a lot, that would be a small fraction of outsiders who again fail to look at all the "facts" and cherry pick singular things from which they draw false conclusions from.


You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. They're not outsiders. These are credible historians, theologians, geologists, archeaologists, etc.


I am not saying that it is all BS, but a great deal of it and not knowing this is an epic failure at understanding how the written word have been used for the purpose of manipulation and spreading of lies.

Heck you can look at most High School text books and see the same work at hand as the powers at be get a say in what is written and facts come second to their agenda.


That's fine. I'm just basing it on documentation (text) by the credible historians, theologians, archeologists, geologists, etc., and my own beliefs.

I think is it pretty much common knowledge that Emperor Constantine was responsible for taking an allegorical tale and having it re-written to be told as a literal one.

So to really answer that, you would have to back and find the first iteration of the story some people today call the story of jesus.

Because it is just copied from other tales, you know historians re-writing other historians works.


Again, I disagree. It wasn't an allegorical tale. I find statements like this to generally be made by those who are non-believers in the religious sense. Credible historians, theologians, etc. generally agree that Jesus existed.
Your examples are are mythological. Jesus is not mythological IMO. The Bible is a historical text and it denotes his life and states that He walked the earth, etc- led a very 'normal' life as a human, and just happened to be someone who was led to share about God and to set the example for us through his life.
I'm well aware that others don't share my opinion. That's what opinions are about- to share openly and to hopefully learn from them and cause some cognitive thought.

I hardly think that a high school year book is comparative to the bible.


But it is curious that ancient people wrote about such an event and have passed down sories about such a thing happening.


These are the kinds of things I asked myself when reading a lot about any historical information/events- and it was very common to have stories like this handed down. I put this information together, as well as a geographic and historical timeline, and in reading the bible and other texts, and find it to be true.


Haven't they found evidence that Solomon's temple actually existed?


Yes- just one of many articles: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100226-king-solomon-wall-jerusalem-bible/
 albinosquirlz
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 418
view profile
History
Stephen Hawking: God Did Not Create the Universe
Posted: 1/7/2013 6:40:31 PM

I'm simply sharing that there are a lot of people in the scientific community who think these assertions are true.


Except "creation science" doesn't qualify as being part of the actual scientific community.




I seriously doubt that a number of credible historians would make it up.


It wasn't the historians who made it up.....it was the forgers who added it long after the originals were written (as with Josephus).

And what little else there is does not present evidence of jesus...but evidence of christians.
 notdating-forumsonly
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 419
Stephen Hawking: God Did Not Create the Universe
Posted: 1/7/2013 7:03:29 PM
^^^Again, I'm not arguing. I'm just stating my beliefs and opinions, which are based on credible individuals in the above stated fields. If you had read my previous posts, or any of them, I'm not referencing creation science- I've been discussing historical, geographical, etc info since we're discussing the scientific community.

I didn't say it was the historians who made anything up. You're simply using this as an opportunity to take my words and argue some innocuous statements that really don't say anything specifically except that you think there's no evidence of Jesus, yet you don't cite specifics to uphold that statement. Too many credible historians etc agree that he did exist.
 albinosquirlz
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 420
view profile
History
Stephen Hawking: God Did Not Create the Universe
Posted: 1/7/2013 8:14:46 PM

If you had read my previous posts, or any of them, I'm not referencing creation science


Yes you were....the referenced theory you gave was from the Center for Scientific Creation, which is an outfit headed by young earth creationist kook, Walt Brown. All this creation "science" is not science. If you don't believe me, consult your own Supreme Court.

From where to you get the notion that most credible scientists agree with this? Like all these creationist kooks who try to use science to uphold their religious beliefs, they have either been debunked, or not even taken seriously in the first place (by actual scientists).

Of course, if you keep watching Fox News, you are never going to know these things LOL




You're simply using this as an opportunity to take my words and argue some innocuous statements that really don't say anything specifically except that you think there's no evidence of Jesus, yet you don't cite specifics to uphold that statement. Too many credible historians etc agree that he did exist.


I did cite specifics. You're the one who keeps saying all the credible people are agreeing with you. Really? name them. You're just making claims.

The Josephus reference to jesus being a christian forgery has been a widely held belief...for centuries. And not by non-believers...but christian biblical scholars.

It's technically possible that the jesus myth is based on an actual historical figure (or combination of figures) running around preaching at the time. It's not like jesus is the only self-proclaimed Messiah running around at the time (which historians of the time actually did write about, but hadn't heard of this jesus guy).

And I don't know why you would consider the bible any kind of history reference. Historians don't, and why would they....it doesn't tell much history, and wasn't meant to be a history book. The 4 gospels and the letters of Paul (which IS the bible) don't discus "history".

The anonymous writers of the gospels give not particularly consistent accounts of jesus' birth, and the last 2 or 3 years of his life.

Paul (who's writings predates the gospels) never heard of an earthy jesus.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 421
view profile
History
Stephen Hawking: God Did Not Create the Universe
Posted: 1/7/2013 8:51:52 PM

"“About half the water now in the oceans was once in interconnected chambers about 10 miles below the entire earth’s surface,” explains Brown. “The average thickness of the subterranean water was at least three-quarters of a mile. Above the subterranean water was a granite crust; beneath the water was earth’s mantle.”
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/does-science-prove-noahs-flood/#LbfwxC3SJ30qpAFD.99

"Because of tidal pumping forces increasing the water pressure beneath the miles of rock over the centuries, the crust stretched like an inflating balloon, says Brown. This pressure triggered a crack that ended up rupturing the earth’s crust – a process that Brown calculates took about two hours to wrap around the globe.

“As the crack raced around the earth, the 10-mile-thick crust opened like a rip in a tightly stretched cloth,” Brown explained. “Pressure in the subterranean chamber directly beneath the rupture suddenly dropped [and] caused supercritical water to explode with great violence out of the 10-mile-deep ‘slit’ that wrapped around the earth like the seam of a baseball.”

To relate the magnitude of this release, Brown equates it to the impact of 1,800 trillion hydrogen bombs, ripping a tear down the middle of the Atlantic, veering beneath Africa and Australia, running north a couple thousand miles off South America’s west coast, dipping under North America off Mexico’s west coast to Alaska, resurfacing in the Arctic Circle and continuing down through Iceland

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/does-science-prove-noahs-flood/#LbfwxC3SJ30qpAFD.99


And then afterwards, fairies came and healed up the crack.



I'm not trying to argue whether these things happened or not.
I'm simply sharing that there are a lot of people in the scientific community who think these assertions are true.

Relatively speaking, no there aren't. Even in the US, which is unique amongst western developed nations in the high level of community religiosity, only a tiny fraction of people in relevant scientific fields, ie; those who one would expect to be well informed, support any variety of creationism, either young, or old, or ID.
Biblical literalism, which includes such beliefs as creationism and a global flood event, are fringe beliefs even within religious circles.

The observed trend of an inverse correlation between higher education and religious belief doesn't even necessarily require expertise in relevant fields. A comprehensive education and even slight familiarity with science has a measurable effect on religious beliefs in general.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-believe-in-God.html
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=402381&c=2
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html
http://philpapers.org/surveys
http://philpapers.org/surveys/demographics.pl
http://philpapers.org/surveys/index.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Approximately_what_percentage_of_recognized_Scientists_believes_in_Creation

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