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 Helen0426
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 33
I can't read men... Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
In the circumstances described by the initial post, I felt that this was a rare instance in which no notification or explanation was really necessary. What had occurred was quite clear enough, IMO.

However, for the most part, I'm a pretty firm believer in calling and saying, "I'm sorry, this isn't working," when it isn't, you know, working. It's a relief once it's done, for the party who makes the call; and even if the recipient of the call is hurt, at least they know, and can therefore start to feel finished with it sooner. Best thing all around.

And this:

NO- big message to men- it is not better to appear busy and keep putting you off, give an explanation or just dont call, think about how you would like to be treated sorry but I just think that sucks, all your doing is stringing someone along and giving that false hope

... is an important message for many women, too! By far the worst option of all. At best, it's annoying - at worst, cruel. Also, excessively complicated. I don't know why anyone would do it.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 34
view profile
History
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/21/2010 4:53:10 PM
" I also believe I didn't do anything wrong and that it was not my fault and to be honest I don't feel shitty just disappointed that people actually do such things."

This is the crux of this [ancient] issue. Everyone who complains about someone 'disappearing,' male or female, has the same basic issue: they want life to work by a set of well-known RULES, so that they can live as they did as a child...where if you 'did nothing wrong,' then you STILL get your reward, whether the real task at hand was accomplished or not.
Real life NEVER worked that way. In real life, you can do EVERYTHING PERFECTLY, follow every request from your lover, fulfill EVERYTHING on their checklist, and so on...but they might STILL leave you. You will also find (if you are honest with yourself) that you ALSO don't want to HAVE TO reward everyone with what you said YOU would do, just because they "did everything right." After all, you aren't a THING to be purchased, you are a human being. You change and grow. What you thought you wanted, and said you wanted, and ACTUALLY wanted, might change overnight. Should you be required to EXPLAIN yourself to everyone who had expectations of you based on what you thought and said yesterday?
So just move on. If it gives you comfort to categorize someone who disappointed you as a "loser," or as "immature," or "rude and thoughtless," or as a "cad (I AM old fashioned!)", go ahead. But that kind of self-comfort will actually hold you back in the long run, and will CERTAINLY be a waste of time, no matter how many people you can find who agree with your judgment.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 35
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/21/2010 5:10:19 PM

You're right it keeps bothering me because that's my nature I like to know why things happen and yes this is my problem not his. However I also believe I didn't do anything wrong and that it was not my fault and to be honest I don't feel shitty just disappointed that people actually do such things...


Okay,,,this disappearing act has been(and will continue to be) talked about forever. I've only quoted a bit of your comments,,,but I go on forever about your expectations of others.
"YOU" may want to know why things happen,,,but that will not always happen. Well, cause some things are not worth knowing. Get used to it, and understand this. "YOU" may or may not have doing something "wrong",,,but only in his eyes. Ask yourself,,,,does it REALLY, I mean, REALLY,,,,matter?????? If you are just starting to get disappointed in other and their actions,,,,get ready,,,you've got a long road ahead of ya.
I do believe the majority of people do NOT know how to handle any form of "confrontation" anymore. Too many thin skinned people out there, plus the ability to actually communicate(which includes LISTENING and HEARING what another is trying to say) is a lost art.
All I can say to you OP is that if you are sooooooooooo upset about this little scene,,,ask yourself how you would handle if the man in question came right out and told you HIS problem with you and him, together??????
 cenomeno
Joined: 4/21/2010
Msg: 36
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/21/2010 6:24:08 PM
As bill the butcher says "have I had you before? - if not then don't call me by my Christian name".....

You need to have some sort of a relationship in order to demand "explanations".... A few dates don't make a relationship...
You're a stranger and he doesn't have to explain anything to a stranger.....

The end/
 Big_fun_wave
Joined: 2/28/2009
Msg: 37
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/21/2010 6:33:57 PM
Yep, it happens and has probably happened to everyone once. I've encountered this many times. For many people it's just easier to turn the page. It's an easy out sure, but you know, if anyone want's someone or something bad enough, they'll pursue it.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 38
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/21/2010 7:01:58 PM
Don't "read" the opposite sex, just enjoy them! Reading them is tedious and beside the point of what they're there for. In fact, trying to read someone will only cause a contrived and awkward situation, and in the end what you find out isn't worth it.

I'd find it a lot easier if women could abstract themselves from such conversations so they don't respond emotionally. If I have to deal emotional reactions or state what I have to say in language that is so vague as to be conveniently misunderstood, then I'd rather not say anything.

Have to agree with this...women should abstract themselves from conversations about relationships - and so should some of you men. How else can you discuss and solve problems, or talk benchmarks if you're all emotional during the whole thing? Nothing gets done that way. Talk and troubleshoot now, go home and cry later on your own time.
 tarotdream
Joined: 10/12/2008
Msg: 39
view profile
History
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 12:50:34 AM
If you answer one question, you get two more.
If you answer two questions, you get four more.
If you answer four questions, you get eight more.

If you tell them "why" you will get a description of your undesirability.
 brunediddy
Joined: 3/20/2006
Msg: 40
view profile
History
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 7:47:54 AM
Listen,

I'm no expert but heres my take as ive been on both sides of this situation and I'll try and say this nice, but im gonna make some sterotypes and generalizations here...so its probably gonna sound rude lol.

Rejection happens to most men early in life, and "striking out" is just part of the game...you just can't win em all...but its pretty crazy how some women cope with a fairly minor blow to the ego...and the hotter they are, they more nuts they go too.....they can develop "omg whats wrong with me syndrome"

The key here everyone, is that its just not a big deal...forget it and move on, quickly. Stop trying to analyze the why's of the situation, theres nothing to figure out, and nothing wrong with you.

Ok fine....you really wanna know????

Here is a list of likely "why you got dumped for no reason" explanations:

He just wanted to bang you, he finds you annoying but you have a great rack/butt
His wife/girlfriend came back from vacation/business.
Something you did seriously turned him off, i.e. bad breath/gross/stanky vajayjay
You could be a stage 5 clinger

And the number one answer is...ding! ding! ding!

a better (hotter/funner/younger) woman came along in his eyes.

It aint pretty but its the truth....my advice: remember you are a good person and its no biggie, you two just weren't a match...otherwise you'd be together right now. Go find a guy who will give you what you need, it sucks and its hard to find but thats the game and why we are all here.

buuuuuuuttt......

Likely you wont be able to forget him very easily because women always want the****ead guy that pushes them away.... then go around whining that they cant find a good man, when the good ones are already right under thier noses.

*opens can of worms*
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 44
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 8:24:11 AM
And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to sleep with him – I wasn’t feeling well (no not migraine!)


DID you communicate that to him in the clearest way possible?



You do not allow us to get to know you because we don’t sleep with you so you think we are not interested but at the same time if we do sleep with you, you lose interest anyway.


No-win situation for you dear?
IF you want some advice from experience: Show that you are interested as best you can, then do it at the appropriate time..

A man who stays away afterwards, likely has issues or other girlfriends he is pursuing..

An experienced man who shares what he truly enjoys with you will come back for more and more..
And sometimes stay...
 tinainhouston39
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 47
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 9:59:02 AM
I think we have all met this person before...lol I don't dwell on it I guess. I just consider at all times that everyone has options and they exercise them at will and without prior consent or reason. I of course don't do it, but understand that others do...why??...it's simple..because they can.
 Big_fun_wave
Joined: 2/28/2009
Msg: 48
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 11:34:15 AM
That was good bruned. Well said! I'm with you and S.diesel. Both your run downs of the situation are rather accurate. I especially agree with diesel on the expectations comment. It's wrong for people men or women alike to want people to show interest in them soley on their terms.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 49
view profile
History
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 12:30:48 PM

And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to sleep with him – I wasn’t feeling well (no not migraine!) so I think I had a right to say no…?

by invoking your 'rights,' you imply he was unfair not to do things your way. this sounds exactly like the so-common whine of 'i'm such a nice guy! women are so unfair not to bang me!' as long as someone thinks there is the slightest correlation between compatibility/attraction and fairness, they are doomed to a life of bitter relating to other human beings.

you have a right to say no to sex, and he has a right to factor that into his interest level.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 50
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 4:10:33 PM

Why is it that a guy only knows that a girl is interested in him if she sleeps with him?

Because that makes the interest pretty obvious.

Can’t you read any other signals?

Why should I have to read signals?

Can’t you draw conclusions from conversations you have, touch, eye contact, smile, cuddling?

Except for cuddling, no. I can't draw any accurate conclusion from those things. If I get as far as cuddling, the question is moot.

Why is it always we have to prove we “care” by sleeping with you?

It's not about proving anything. If you're sleeping with a guy to prove something to him, you're sleeping with him for the wrong reason. What's wrong with the idea that if you and a guy have different ideas about when to have sex, you ought to not date him and find someone whose ideas about sex are more in line with yours?

however I do not like when someone in some way demands from me to” prove” I’m interested the way that suits them.

Huh? Everyone, including you, wants to date people who are interested in the way that suits them. If what suits you differs from what suits some guy you want to date, the solution is to date someone else, not get in a tizzy because he doesn't see things your way.

And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to sleep with him – I wasn’t feeling well (no not migraine!) so I think I had a right to say no…?

You have the right to do whatever you want. The most sensible thing to do is make sure the other person understands that ``I have a migraine'' means you have a migraine and isn't one of those signals you want guys to pick up on. If you expect guys to read signals, you should expect them to think ``I have a migraine'' might be a signal for ``I'm not interested in sleeping with you any time soon.''

I know that physical contact is important but in most cases when a girl sleeps with a guy on the first or second date he loses interest anyway

If you had sex because you wanted to have sex instead of trying to use sex to manipulate someone into a relationship, it wouldn't matter. Don't have sex unless what you want is sex.

That’s why I can’t read you. You do not allow us to get to know you because we don’t sleep with you so you think we are not interested but at the same time if we do sleep with you, you lose interest anyway.

Well, if a woman wasn't interested in sleeping with me fairly quickly, I assumed she wasn't interested. If my assumption was wrong, well, that's life. No matter what you do, someone won't want to date you because of it. I made the choices I thought were best for me. I met my fiancee here, so from my perspective, I didn't miss out on anything by not dating women who had different ideas about dating and sex.

We are two totally different worlds but it would be good if we managed to communicate clearly despite that especially when we get to know each other!

If by that, you mean men and women are of two different worlds, that's not really accurate. I found women who didn't make me read signals and thought about dating and sex the same way I did. I'm sure you can find guys whose ideas about sex and dating are similar to yours. What you can't do is expect every guy you want to date to accomodate you. If you have different ideas about dating and sex than some guy you want to date, decide to date someone else.
 DoubleParked
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 51
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/22/2010 4:34:12 PM
If a guy goes POOF on me, I figure he died. Hopefully some terribly interesting death for his sake, and not TOO painful. And his last words were, "Tell her I loved her..."
 Chill Pill
Joined: 6/5/2010
Msg: 52
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 9:55:18 AM
I don't try to read men. A man that disappears is sending a very clear message. It's not a hard thing to read. Do I have to know why? Not necessarily.

If I was married to him for 10 years and expecting him for dinner and he didn't show up for a 24 hours, I may contact the police to file a missing persons report....
otherwize, I don't need to know why a man disappears after a few dates.

I won't self scrutinize to try to figure it out. I like myself and if he doesn't like me well, then I can tell myself he missed out. Oh well. I know what I have to offer. If a man prefers something or someone else well God bless his little heart. I'd let him go. I've got nothing to prove to myself through a man.

One thing I have learned over the years about men is that I don't play kissy faced games with them. I don't lead them into a sexual setting and then put them off to go home with blue balls and take a cold shower. That's just as rude as disappearing acts.
Maybe even more so.
If I am just at a stage of getting to know them and finding out what they are about I keep the physical contact to a minimum. I learned that back in high school when a lot of girls were getting the rep of being a c*ck teaser. They would lead a guy into heavy petting and swapping spit and then tell him to go home fully erect. That must be painful.

A simple kiss good night at the door way, or a hug when we are parting is enough. Holding hands maybe, keeping it very simple in the beginning until I decide he is the one I want to f&Ck.

If I get him into a setting with a bedroom, or cuddling, or lead him to lay down with me then it means I am DTF. I don't toy with them emotionally, holding them at arms length and get them all aroused for nothing. . There would be no "bad timing". I wouldn;'t lead the man to the situation, setting, that would lead him to believe that I was going to have sex with him , just to put him off. That's cold and a foolish game.

Imagine if the situation were reversed and a man brought you to his bed and lit candles and started cuddling with you and got you all titalated and excited to have intercourse and then said NO... Would you feel like he was playing F&Ck F&Ck games with you?

I wouldn't go back for more. You keep talking about being an adult. BE ONE.

OP.. You do not have to READ men.... but perhaps you have to establish some healthy physical boundaries with them. Why tease, and place them in a situation where they think you want intimacy and sex just to say NO? I think the "bad timing" story is on YOU and you shouldn't have created that situation to begin with.

The next time if you want things slow, and your not ready or feeling "up to it"... don't get him UP for it. He probably left feeling like he would have been better off staying home with a porno movie, a bottle of lotion and a box of tissues.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 53
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 10:08:17 AM
Chilly,

Haven't you ever gotten a little carried away and perhaps held a kiss a little longer than you expected to? Have you ever kissed a man you were on the fence about and discovered that the way he kisses you curls your toes? You're not ready for sex yet, but hot damn you dont want to stop kissing him just yet! It's just that good.

What then?
 Chill Pill
Joined: 6/5/2010
Msg: 54
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 10:48:52 AM
What then? If I am ready to kiss a man and have lingering long passionate kisses with him to the point of arousal... I am ready to have sex with him.

I won't kiss just anybody. I think kissing is a very intimate thing. If my toes don't curl after one or two kisses I know I perhaps wouldn't want to have sex with him. To me it IS all about the kiss.

I don't let myself get "carried away" if I'm on a fence. If I'm not sure about having real sexual desire for a man I don't feign it. I don't pretend. I keep a healthy distance from him physically, so that I don't mislead him. So I do not tease him and then reject him because I was on a said perverbial "fence". I think that feels like a game to men and it
sends mixed signals and it's frustrating to them.

I respect them emotionally and physically. I don't lead them to a place where they think there needs will be met or a mutual passion exist when it isn't going to happen. If I am unsure, or on a fence??
I can sit on the fence until I decide without having to engage with the man in a sexual way. Any sexual way. Lingering kisses is sexual.

I can make a decision if I want to follow through with sex based on other levels of compatability, emotional bonding, spiritual bonding, intellectual bonding. I know if the chemistry is there. I don't have to test the waters by getting him all aroused and then rejecting him. I would prefer to test or make my choice for intimacy with a man based on many other factors of getting to know him... not by teasing him sexually. There are many facets to a man that make him sexually appealing to me. I know when
I want a man sexually, it's not something I guess about.

If I'm going to lead a man to my bedroom and lay down with him it's because I mean business. Otherwize the developing relationship is on a platonic level and I am finding out if he is the ONE. I don't have to play with him half way to figure that out and then send him home hard and hanging. That's playing games and it's not fair to the man.

If a man invited me to a hotel room to spend the night with him, and then pulled out a game of Scrabble. I would be pretty disappointed to say the least. So, I don't invite a man into a sexual setting and then turn him down. If I'm on a fence, I stay there. No sex in the equation. What then? Nothing.
 Ineedyounow35
Joined: 9/20/2010
Msg: 55
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 10:57:27 AM
Then read books about us men instead..
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 56
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 11:00:24 AM
I don't operate the same way at all.

I tend to be a little spontaneous and go with the flow. I'm not always so sure as you seem to be. I'm curious about possibilities and I don't believe the men I date are so fragile that they need my protection. I may not even be aware that he is aroused until I am aroused myself.

Kissing isnt always a prelude to sex for me. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss.

Sometimes it DOES lead to sex, but I don't have any "rules" in place for that decision. I take it in a case-by-case situation.

Variety is the spice of life, they say. Everyone does things different.
 Chill Pill
Joined: 6/5/2010
Msg: 57
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 11:19:51 AM
I respect that, and I agree Iconoclast.

Everyone is different.

My choices are based on my experience. I was once brutally raped by a man that accused me of leading him on. Calling me a c*ck teaser. I was 24.

The result was the conception of my second daughter. So my history, my
story and my choices and my rules maybe different than the next persons.

I learned that I need to respect a man physically and emotionally for my
protection, not his. I keep a safe and respectful distance until I am sure
and there is no inbetween for me.

Perhaps I sounded harsh to the OP. I didn't mean to. I just think that one
can draw lines that are very clear about making the choice to have intercourse
and then no one gets mixed messages or hurt feelings or hurt physically.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 59
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 1:55:49 PM
I showed interest and I did initiate dates, we were on the phone etc. I was the one who contacted him the next day and he didn't respond. I think if he was really interested in something more than only having a quicky he would have replied.

This isn't a game of chess, it's a game of checkers. Yes, if you're the one who does all the initiating, even if you're a guy, and they end up not returning your calls -- they're not interested.

Many people will show at least some interest in the other on their 1st or 2nd date, even though emotionally they're on the fence or even a little less. You should never take standard-date-was-fun-interest-level as "he/she WANTS me and that will never go away". In other words, don't be SHOCKED if they end up losing interest (not returning your calls, emails, or texts).

I know it was an early stage but that's when we get to know each other right? How are we supposed to do it if we do not get a chance?

What are you talking about? If you spent some time together, that's easily enough to decide whether it's worth it to continue on the getting-to-know-ya phase. There is NO obligation for ANYONE to have to go through all processes, even if they don't feel it for the other person. Come on!

You DID have your "chance". You presented yourself to him, he presented himself to you... and sometimes it happens quickly, which is a GOOD thing, that one person has a solidified lack of interest.

You can "read" guys just fine -- he wasn't interested in you, hence he didn't return your calls. How hard is that to do? You can't expect to know EXACTLY why -- nobody's going to tell you the full accurate reasons why. The only way to REALLY know is if you were friends with one of his friends and they leaked out a reason thru their conversation of spilling some beans.

Don't assume you did some big thing to blow the whole thing. Have good -unbiased- self-judgement and at least weed that out. If not -- he just wasn't into you. Case closed -- don't worry about the "whys" if you didn't do anything bad. Sometimes we don't even get the chance to make an ass out of ourselves and the other person loses interest ("disappears")! Ce la vie! :)
 pandusvenator
Joined: 11/17/2009
Msg: 61
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 8:58:23 PM

I'd find it a lot easier if women could abstract themselves from such conversations so they don't respond emotionally.


Doesn't work that way abelian. lol Sometime it's best to not talk and kiss them instead.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 62
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 9:44:45 PM

Doesn't work that way abelian. lol

That doesn't stop me from trying to get there and I think I've gotten my fiancee half way converted to that approach.

Sometime it's best to not talk and kiss them instead.

Hey, I agree, but I'm usually not the one who wants to talk, so it's not my choice.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 63
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/23/2010 10:19:24 PM
(Yawn) Bad men! Very bad men, go to your room, no soup for you tonight! Hahahaha!!!

Sorry Markus hasn't upgraded the site to include crystal balls with every membership, gold circle or not! Sorry OP, truth be told as many women do this as men. Someone contacts you or vice versa, your hopes rise, then "poof" gone like the wind!

Now we'll probably have about a million guys who jump on here and say "hey you women just delete my email, why can't I poof on you?"

Manners, inner strength and honesty are in short supply on the net. It is an asexual phenom. It has nothing to do with "reading men", it has to do with the particular man you were dealing with, or any number of either gender that simply flakes out. Mature has little to do with it, manners do.

I have no problem telling a woman before or after we met, "I don;t see a match" and saying bye. From behind a computer keyboard anyone can be an azz.

Time to develop a tougher skin, internet dating takes it. Who just wants sex, who wants their ego stroked, who is married and can't meet but gets off on emails from strange women. The list is endless, from both sides.
 hyoid
Joined: 5/12/2009
Msg: 64
I can't read men...
Posted: 9/24/2010 10:06:30 AM
Try using your hands-
We're more Braille than text.
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