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 az109
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 106
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?Page 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
If someone with even more free time to waste than any of us has, hard to imagine as that may be, were to objectively compare two groups of situations, one composed of harmony and the other of conflict, then it would become apparent the significant difference was either ease of or difficulty relating. Insofar as communication is relating and harmony is desired we can assume good communication supports if not creates harmony. The reason why I state the obvious is to isolate the important distinction between easy communication while getting along and difficult communication while not getting along.

Suppose, if you must, that when a "good" communication technique is suggested the goal for using it would be "better" communication, which goal is in the pursuit of a harmonious, happier relationship. If we can suppose that, then we can also suppose that a characteristic of a good relationship is that in part because good communication lacks the difficulty of a lesser relationship. Communicate well to get along, to enjoy a good relationship. Nobody will throw a rock at that idea. The mystery here is that if we will suppose this premise to be true, than how can it also be supposed of someone who reports enjoying good relationships in which good communication plays its expected part, there must be something wrong, as if nobody ever could achieve the goal? I have to think the only way anybody can be suspicious of a claim of successful, good relationships is if that anybody was unfamiliar with any other examples of such relationships.

It seems to me that among a particularly inept group of relaters, whose routine habit is to bemoan, hope for and puzzle at the ideal of a happy relationship, an actual example of a human being capable of happiness in that way as a matter of course would necessarily be at odds with nearly every theory and belief going around. Just like one bent nail shows up wrong beside the rest that are straight, next to only bent nails the single straight one will be the odd one. It isn't until you remember that a nail should be straight that the absurdity of counting it defective for being different appears.

When the usual premise for a discussion is that a given problem is normal, happens frequently, and is nearly universally shared by those discussing it, and many such discussions of problems happen nearby, all with their similar problems, all presumed to be difficult, what you get is an environment in which the art of living well is an affront.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 107
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 6:31:59 AM

Please forgive me if that was in some way offensive, I thought the topic had already been discussed to its ends. I regret any offense.

No worries. No offense taken. One thing no one ever need worry about is offending me. I reply to what I read to the best I can as I understand what is posted. In this case, I was apparently off the mark with regard to the intent of the comment.
 az109
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 108
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 7:24:47 AM
The way to ratiocinate better is to detach emotion. The way to communicate objectively better is to delete emotion. The way to relate better is to be fully engaged emotionally. People make plans dispassionately, but to get along they look first to how each other feels.

The classic mistake of logically minded people in relationships is to expect that if truth prevails harmony will follow. To address a problem they will dispense with emotion as unimportant and by so doing miss the whole point of the relationship.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 109
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 7:53:55 AM

you're going to tell us that you have a choice in how you feel?
Only a robot would be able to distance itself in such an unemotional way. Only a robot would be able to choose how to feel in that situation.

It seems to me that the people most likely to use the "You choose how to feel" are those people who want to avoid responsibility for how their behavior affect others. I think it's much more accurate to say that one chooses how to react to situations caused by other people, and that actions can help mitigate negative feelings (or enhance positive ones) but the feelings themselves provide important life feedback - even if the feedback is that one needs to work on changing their feelings.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 110
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 8:45:14 AM

People make plans dispassionately, but to get along they look first to how each other feels.
The classic mistake of logically minded people in relationships is to expect that if truth prevails harmony will follow. To address a problem they will dispense with emotion as unimportant and by so doing miss the whole point of the relationship.


Agreed. There are actually three realms in which one must be able to communicate effectively in order to have successful conflict resolution in relationships:
The "emotion/feelings" realm, the "What happened?" realm, and the "Identity" realm.

In the "emotion/feelings" realm, you need to be able to ask yourself if your feelings are valid, and whether or not they should be acknowledged or denied, put out on the table, or hidden. You also need to acknowledge the other person's feelings, i.e. if they are angry or hurt.

In the "What happened?" realm, you need to think about who's right and who's wrong, who meant what, i.e. intent, and who's to blame.

In the "Identity" realm, you need to examine whether you're a good or bad person, competent or incompetent, and what impact the conflict might have on your self-image, self-esteem, and future well-being. How we answer these questions can be a determining factor in whether we feel balanced or anxious and off-center during the conversation.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 111
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 8:56:50 AM
Spoken like a true robot.

Your problem is that you think that to whatever limited extent you can act rationally, constitutes the appropriate behaviour. However, as you example will show, even you limit your reactions and hence the extent to which you abstract yourself from the situation and not let another person control how you feel. The difference between you and I is that I'm smart enough to understand that and I have more freedom to NOT be robot, whereas you are programmed and just react to others you allow to control you.

"What are you going do about that, a**hole?!" he says to you. "Huh?! Whatchu gonna do?!"

My first reaction would be to first figure out whether my dog is dead or whether I ca do something to save the dog. I'd rather save the dog than concern myself with the person who attacked the dog. If that isn't what you would do, then you've already demonstrated that you would let the attacker control you to the extent of neglecting to care for your dog first.

Second, I would probably want to kill the attacker, but that won't bring the dog back and the revenge would rather hollow if I had to enjoy it from jail. In that case, the attacker would be controlling me after he was dead. My best bet would to make certain that I restrained the attacker until police arrived, since after that, I'd know who the attacker was and if I felt like I wanted to take matters into my own hands, I could do so at my own convenience and have all the time I wanted to tihink of what would be appropriate and carry out with the least personal risk. I'm not averse to taking matters into my own own hands, but if I do, I'm going do it without letting my emotions put me at personal risk. I'm going to it in a calculated way that doesn't expose me to more personal risk than necessary .

By not reacting like a programmed robot. I have much more freedom to act the way I want to act. You've got it backwards. By reacting instead of thinking, you respond exactly like a robot with no control over your own programming.

Only a robot would be able to distance itself in such an unemotional way. Only a robot would be able to choose how to feel in that situation.

Unless you would just react by abandoning your dog and killing the attacker, you've already chosen how you feel about the situation by thinking before acting. You just don't realize it because you lack the ability to be introspective and learn anything about yourself. That really does make you a robot, since introspection and the ability to learn is a major difference between a person and a machine.
 pitufina_77
Joined: 8/13/2009
Msg: 112
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 9:06:57 AM
When I had the conversation three weeks ago with my now ex, I did use the "I feel" and similar statements a lot.

This was because I realized that I wasn't going to make him change, and I would find it disrespectful to tell him what to do or what is expected of him.

So I opened my heart from MY point of view, and I had my peace with him. I didn't blame him or confront him.

For instance, when I said that the communication was not enough, I said that I felt as if we were two random people getting together for sex every so often, and just silence in the middle, and that wasn't good enough for me, because I could not even call it a friendship. He gave his excuses as to the non exciting life he leads and I said ok, whatever, but I would appreciate to know if your are well or not, if anything is happening to you or not, or even if you have had a peaceful week.

So, now, he knows that, if he wants to keep a friendship with me, he needs to communicate, because that's what I appreciate. And, using the "I feel", he explained how he views relationships so, if I want to continue relating to him, it has to be without ever becoming more than a friend.

Nobody was blamed, there are no traumas.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 113
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 9:17:34 AM

Hypothetical situation:

I'm a severe animal lover - and it's one of my (VERY FEW) weaknesses. I'll take a stab at this one:

You have a dog that is your absolute best buddy. He loves you, jumps up and down when you come home, gives you licks, and you love him. A random stranger approaches you while you are with your dog. He pulls out a knife and stabs your dog, killing him instantly, and then has the audacity to kick him while laughing in your face. "What are you going do about that, a**hole?!" he says to you. "Huh?! Whatchu gonna do?!"

I'm all about damage control, so I'd find a way to track the guy down later and immediately get my dog medical care. I'd write the guy off as a random nutcase since I don't know him and therefore can't be the target of any grudges, and I'd try to see he got penalized for it. I'd obviously wish I was stabbed instead, but that's irrelevant. It's all about dealing with what's at hand now and crying about it later.

So you're going to say that that person can't make you feel angry and full of rage? And then later, after he runs off, you're going to tell us that you aren't going to feel extreme sadness for the loss of your dog? Your best buddy?

Oh, the dog dies? Well if I tried my best to save the dog and it wasn't to be helped - all I can do is move on. Naturally grief is grief, and I'd feel horrible, but I'd make sure I dealt with it alone and kept it private, as usual.

So in this situation, you're going to tell us that you have a choice in how you feel?

You don't choose how you feel, but you CAN choose what you do about it/how you express it.

Only a robot would be able to distance itself in such an unemotional way. Only a robot would be able to choose how to feel in that situation.

Agreed. You can grieve without causing a scene or torturing others about it, however.

I believe it was Hume who said that emotions are more powerful than ideas. The idea that you can choose how to feel when confronted with someone filling you with rage and anger after killing your dog in such a cold-blooded fashion is ridiculous. Your emotions are going to go into turbo drive! Unless, of course, one is a robot.

Anger and revenge are wasted in this situation, outside of the normal range of grieving. So long as it's part of a process and you move through it it's normal. You can freak out all you want, but it doesn't bring the dog (relationship, job, person, whatever) back.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 114
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 9:23:06 AM
Indeed why would you. So even a slightest irritation from anyone would cause you break up with them?

Your argument is a logical fallacy known as False dilemma. You left out the obvious alternative (which apparently isn't as obvious as it should be). Know what you really care about and what you don't care about, so that you know what you won't tolerate and what you'll deal with and make sure you're self consistent. I care if my partner cheats on me and I'm sure she cares if I cheat on her. I really don't care if she looks through my stuff or asks me questions that would remove any doubt where I've done something that for whatever reason seems suspicious. My first priority is to make sure she never gets some seed of mistrust planted due to some silly need for privacy. Therefore I expect my relationships to be completely open and I date women who want to share all aspects of my life rather than date women who feel a need to keep parts f themselves private. (I think that such a need is indicative of other issues I'd rathernot deal with, but I digress.) I don't really care how someone I'm dating feels about it. If she feels strongly enough about it to cause conflict, she should date someone with more similar views.

I'm very disorganized (at least as others see things) and the antithesis of a neat freak. My fiancee is a compulsive neat freak. I try to accomodate her rather than argue about it because I don't really care. I don't take it personally when she complains that I sould have put something away that I'm no longer using. I don't care how she says it. I know she wants stuff put away and being careless about doing that is my fault. My fiancee is a little less compulsive and I'm a lot neater.

I expect people to arrive at the time they say they will. I won't tolerate a peron who is always late and needs to be told to arrive early just to arrive on time. It's not negotiable. I either care about something enough to know what I want and how much I'm willing to compromise or I don't care enough to make it an issue. If people actually gave some thought about what is REALLY important and what really DOESN'T matter, dating would be simpler and few people would be puzzled over the behavior of those they date. That would also reduce the psychobabble of the ``I feel'' phrases and ``I statements'' and all of the other nonsense that arises because people get into relationships that are just begging for conflict.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 115
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 10:04:56 AM
"So even a slightest irritation from anyone would cause you break up with them? Something like leaving the toilet seat up or being messier than you or forgetting to do things they have agreed to do?"

Yes, I would prefer the seat to be put down. However, on the scale of 1 to 10, it is a minus 1 to me of being important. They may not like the way I squeeze the tooth paste, which direction I refill the toilet roll. To me, the question how important is it comes to my mind. Seriously, if things like this require communication and change behaviour, I don't want to be in such a controlled relationship where it is important to sweat the small stuff.

"And do you not travel? Or forget a restaurant - you are standing in a public place and the same is happening. Or whatever. You like where you are, except someone is there, smoking. Even better - they smoke there even its against the law - you hate it. Then you have a conflict."

Yes, I travel often. I have never travelled to a place that doesn't have designated smoking areas. When I walk into a place, I can decide to sit in the smoking or non smoking area. If I decide to sit in the non smoking area, and someone starts to smoke, all I have to do is wait (and it won't take long) for someone who sweats the small stuff to get into a conflict with the smoker. I will never forget being in Varadero airport (one long building for departure.....one side of the hall is smoking, the other is non smoking). Along came a European tourist who freaked out on someone who was smoking in the smoking area instead of realizing it was a smoking and moving to the other side of the hall. What I found most funny was that this tourist smelled of bo like I have never smelled on another human. He grabbed a police office, and demanded the cigarette be put out. Quietly the police man directed him to the other side of the hall. I can't imagine what it was like for the passengers sitting next to this stinky man on a long plane ride. He was only interested in what bothered him, and didn't even realize (or care) that his stink was offensive to anyone around him. It was all about him.

"Not because he wants to piss you off but because he often misplaces his and cannot find it. Otherwise the relationship is great and you love each other. This however causes you not being able to find the phone quickly when you really need it and it goes to voicemail every time (and out of battery), although you would like to answer it. Voila - you have a conflict."

I wouldn't put myself in a position to fall in love with a person who was selfish and irresponsible.

"You probably did not work with any Skandinavians. So if it did happen, and believe me, some stuff smells up more than one room, you have a conflict."

That is why air freshener was invented. Mole hill not a mountain. If I don't like a smell someone else created that they enjoy in say food............what to do about it? My answer is to find a solution that keeps everyone happy. I can't see that as a reason to get into a conflict. Who am I to try to control what other eat.

"It's not a matter of telling people they get on your nerves. It's a matter of disagreeing on something, disliking something they do that has a bearing on you."

I wasn't suggesting telling anyone that they got on my nerves. I was suggestion, that I would be questioning myself as to why my nerves were so bad, and why was I associating with a person who caused me stress. There are enough people on this planet who don't cause me stress, to not get involved with people who do.

"I am not going to cut ties with someone who i love just because they are not identical to me."

I didn't say identical. In my opinion, we all know what we want in our lives (or at least I hope so), therefore we wouldn't start a relationship and let ourselves fall in love with a person who got on our nerves.

Food for thought on communication. My long term (11 years) international friend and family still don't speak each others language very well (in some cases not at all). For the first couple of years, we communicated through gestures, looking up words in the dictionary, and acting things out. When using email I use google translation which often causes mistranslations due to the fact that there is 5 different types of Spanish. The miscommunications cause us to laugh.

They are from a totally different culture. However, my female friend often says "I understand your life, and you understand mine". That actually means we get each other and nothing about the other person bothers us. How did that happen when we can't communicate properly through language? I am not even sure how to explain it on the internet. People would have to see it work to know it doesn.I just know that we have the same outlook on life, and don't stress the small stuff.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 116
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 7:21:14 PM
I highly doubt it. You're going to act on reflex, on pure emotion. And if you say otherwise ... well, then, my friend, it is YOU who have just proven -- once again -- that you are the true robot.

I don't buy it zebra. If you are attempting to prove abelian is robotic, I'd suggest you attempt to do so with a less extreme example. People can and do have very different reflexes and reactions in intense situations; some get swamped by emotions and fall apart while others detach temporarily from emotion, as it isn't useful to the situation, and deal with it logically. And a whole range within the two extremes. Pulling together and being very logical in a dangerous situation does not make one robotic.

An example: when I was 20-something I was kidnapped by two men and over a several hour car ride, I stayed very logical and focused. Emotion did not enter into it, I simply couldn't afford to dwell on fear and anticipatory angst about whether I was going to be killed after they raped me. I didn't think "oh, I can't be emotional here", it was my instinctive or reflex reaction to being in danger. I couldn't afford to be angry with them. Instead, I watched them with hyper attention and, noting their reactions, talked them into letting me go (well, throwing me out of a moving car on the highway, but same result). To give you some assurance that I am not robotic, once I reached safety I collapsed into the sobbing mound of frightened and all-too-human me. And no, as far as I can recall, I didn't actually use "I feel" statements in this situation, lol.

Further, I don't recall which scientist identified this, but in the book "Destructive Emotions" co-authored by the Dalai Lama, research was presented demonstrating there is a window of a second or two between stimulus and response. The contention is no one HAS to have a 'knee jerk' response to emotional stimulus. In fact, it's suggested that all of us can train ourselves to be more thoughtful and less reactive. If we do this will be a much more peaceful world.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 117
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/28/2010 9:01:30 PM
Clever ... but totally false.

Get over it. You're just another logically challenged person who can be maniplulated like a puppet by your enotional reactions and it pisses you off when I point out how programmable you are.

A man just stabs your dog and is taunting you and laughing in your face immediately afterward. You're telling me you choose how you're going to react in that situation?

As a matter of fact, yes, I am. I don't lose it and go nuts in situations like that. As soon as you allow someone to control your emotions, you let them control you. I'm sorry if you have no control over your reactions under pressure, but I'd hate to be you.

I highly doubt it.

You just don't want to believe it.

You're going to act on reflex, on pure emotion. And if you say otherwise ... well, then, my friend, it is YOU who have just proven -- once again -- that you are the true robot.

The robot is the person who everyone can program to react like a puppet, ie., you.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 118
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 6:42:53 AM
Who the f*ck cares?!

Uh, anyone who doesn't like being manipulated or having people push their buttons?

With your logic, then, if someone makes you feel joy, arousal, or happiness, then you're giving them control over you!

As I've noted in the past, you are logically challenged, so I don't think you'll ever get the point that people differ from lower life forms precisely because they can reason and overcome their intinctual reactions. I can enjoy a hell of a lot better adrenaline rush than a person who avoids doing risky things and I'll live longer and have more fun than a person who does risky things but panics under pressure. I'll also have a better sex life if I'm not easily manipulated by every woman willing to sleep with me and think with the big head instead of reacting to the little one.

You say that the robot is the person who everyone can program to react like a puppet, but you've got it wrong, bro'.

Not at all. People who react without thinking are not only easy to manipulate, but they become extremely confused when someone fails to react in the way they expect. Yawn.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 119
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 7:05:24 AM
"People who react without thinking are not only easy to manipulate, but they become extremely confused when someone fails to react in the way they expect."

Confused for sure. Most expect to communicate with full on emotion, and have no idea what to do next when others don't buy into the drama.

Took me several years in my youth to learn to tools don't to play the drama games. Some never learn how to get past their emotions and will be slaves to their emotions for life.

People are welcome to live their lives how they wish. However expecting others to be involved with them for the most part is a loosing battle.

Life doesn't have to be dysfunctional. Communication can not work in a dysfunctional relationship, no matter what skills of communication are used.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 120
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 10:52:35 AM
I think emotions are getting confused with reactions in some cases here. How you feel and what you do about it are very different. There are times when paralyzing emotions HAVE to be put aside in order to survive or get through a crisis, but they're there. You can control them, organize them, and even disregard them if they don't fit the situation or they impede what you're trying to do - but your natural instinct in certain situations will bring up an (albeit internal) initial emotional response.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 121
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 11:17:04 AM
Get over it. You're just another logically challenged person who can be maniplulated like a puppet by your enotional reactions and it pisses you off when I point out how programmable you are.

This seems like a pretty emotional response. I think a response not based on emotion would be along the lines of "We disagree" and not a lot else at this point - ie: walking away because you aren't one to be drawn into emotional displays regardless of the provocation. At least you've shown you're not a robot.



I think emotions are getting confused with reactions in some cases here. How you feel and what you do about it are very different. There are times when paralyzing emotions HAVE to be put aside in order to survive or get through a crisis, but they're there. You can control them, organize them, and even disregard them if they don't fit the situation or they impede what you're trying to do - but your natural instinct in certain situations will bring up an (albeit internal) initial emotional response.

What she said. I have to say that in my experience on these forums, WIP and Margo are two of the more stellar examples of people able to keep their emotions from influencing their behavior. Or at least their posts.
 tinainhouston39
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 122
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 11:26:16 AM
I don't really use "I feel" statements. For me it's kinda intention assuming…you assume intention when you own your “feelers”. I'm a principle fighter to begin with so I guess that style doesn’t really work. I'm more into deductive reasoning....but the old "...yeah me no likie" works well. I don't like having the same conversations over and over again. I state my expectation and use deductive reasoning to express the translation from settlement to principle and allow the person to correct the behavior. Everyone has choices and if they choose to do it, then I make my choice, but I'm not going to continue to have the same conversations over and over again....nor am I going to lecture a grown man. I have found that most men are unaware...their intentions aren't that which women often perceive. Therefore, a simple "me no likie" usually does the trick....Just remember, it's really not that serious for men..they really don't care to hear all those details...lol
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 123
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 6:14:21 PM

Hey, abelian! I think Plenty of Fish has a match for you.

I already found a match here - my fiancee.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 124
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 9/29/2010 6:55:17 PM
"I did not say you need to sweat it. "

Yet, you had a list of examples you addressed to me.

I had something simple like "each time I go in and out the study, I trip over your shoes" in my mind. In my experience, it works and the person (being considerate and caring for how I feel), puts their shoes away. "

If the person was considerate, it wouldn't be a problem in the first place, and there would be nothing to be considerate about.

"Oh I see. Well if the smoke does bother you, then all you are doing, is not having guts to be assertive. If it does not bother you, why would you even care if someone stops it. "

I don't care. I just enjoy people watching and how they stress out is interesting.
I repeat "Smoke free restaurant in Ontario".

"We have an unwritten agreement at work that people don't generally bring and heat up fish, because it really does stink up the place. Everybody IS happier that way. "

Guess you don't eat in restaurants that cook fish.

"Clearly you did not like the BO of the person in the airport."

No, I just found it amusing that he was so self absorded.

"except I don't ditch people because they don't put phones on chargers. There is tiny stuff, which I just let be, there is small repeated stuff, which I express myself about, there is big stuff, which I express myself about too, but more strongly, and then only there is break up stuff."

Sounds more like communicating that changing people to meet your standards is the issue.

"Emailing someone for 11 years, long distance, is somewhat different from close everyday relationship, and hardly an illustration of how tolerant and chilled you are. I don't have conflicts with such people either "

Part of communicating is listening to what the other person actually said, rather than changing the meaning of what they said. Please read the misunderstood part of what I posted.

People can say "I feel" as much as they like, however, is they don't listen to the answers they get, they might as well save their breath.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 125
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 10/1/2010 12:54:53 AM
Sweetness, I don't know that the self-help industry exists because there are so many people that are necessarily emotionally damaged or otherwise not emotionally healthy. We live in a culture that has changed a great deal since the 1950s through to sometime I think in the 1970s when the unspoken mantra for families was let's pretend that everything is peachy keen. You had a lot of parents during that era who drank a lot and most of the women were on valium. Each family seemed to have some significant skeletons or dysfunction.

I see the self-help industry as people being proactive about their emotional growth and not waiting until they need a therapist to work through feelings, thoughts, attitudes. I can't imagine trying to raise my children without having read books and umpteen magazines, particularly during the younger years. The irony of parenting is that by the time you figure out how to deal with one stage the kid is onto the next thing that you may have some instincts about, but without looking at what other people have learned, you are pretty much flying by the seat of your pants.

I think with me, I may have some lightbulb moments when reading a book or article but in many cases, information has reinforced my first response to a situation, or it just helped me to organize thoughts that were already there that I hadn't really crystallized yet.

An extreme of anything isn't good. If someone is using this genre to do their thinking for them, of course that's not advisable, but not seeking out books that might help you gain a little balance or wisdom to me is a bit like failing to ask a question because you assume that the answer is no. You may get nothing out of a book, television show, or article but is this a reason to fail to seek it out?
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 126
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 10/1/2010 1:17:54 AM

Zebra Circle,
vast majority of your everyday experiences does not involve meeting psychos with knives who are out there to get your dog. 99.999999% of your conflicts are far milder than that. None the less - generic answer is - you cannot choose what you FEEL(i agree on that), but you can choose what you DO about that feeling.
You can also choose what you THINK and one more time - what you DO, and that both drives your emotions significantly, so indirectly you can, to a degree, choose what you feel.

Nice.

What Abelian illustrates is far from robotic. With your dog whacker example, a robotic response would be turning on the attacker and I agree with Abelian, it illustrates that you care less about the dog than righting a wrong done to you. If you cared about he wrong to the dog you would focus your attention on whether the dog's life might be saved. Even if you realize instantly that the dog is already dead, don't you want to be there with the dog regardless?

It takes a much stronger character to experience passionate emotions while not allowing those emotions to drive one's behavior. In my experience, those that espouse the notion that one cannot control his feelings has found a convenient way to shun accountability for his actions. Vigilante justice is frowned upon in this society but if it works for you, have at it.

I don't want an antiseptic life but I also would prefer not to exist in constant chaos.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 127
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 10/1/2010 8:59:33 AM
"For the first couple of years, we communicated through gestures, looking up words in the dictionary, and acting things out. "

"I guess the part I might have misunderstood is that you are not in fact long distance friends? Sorry that was indeed somehow my imagination. So how often do you see these people face to face? I don't assume it is daily, which was my point."

Please don't dismiss my original idea/food for thought when I said it is possible to communicate when you don't speak the same language. You can indeed end up with a long term relationship with them.

No I don't see them daily, but do spend a good period of time living with them in the winter. The long term plan is that I will be living with them 6 months a year within the next two years. None of us are busy learning each other language. We find no reason to study language to communicate.
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 128
I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 10/1/2010 9:24:34 AM
i'm sorry, i just couldn't wade thru this entire thread. however i do have a comment based on the subject of the thread.

the basic model of neuro-linguistic programming says that people have different modalities and sub-modalities that they operate from. these modalities and sub-modalities describe how a person habitually relates to the world around him. the basic modalities are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic.

I FEEL is kinesthetic.

saying I FEEL is not necessarily going to elicit better communication. because saying I FEEL to a visual-dominant (I SEE) or auditory-dominant (I HEAR) person is not going to have as nearly much impact as saying I FEEL to a person who operates primarily in the kinesthetic mode.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 129
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 10/1/2010 10:22:23 AM
"This shows that you believe that everyone has same standards and same things bother/don't bother them. Some people don't mind jumping over shoes, some do. Until you have pointed out to person who does not mind it, that you do, they are not aware of it, unless you expect them to be mind readers. In fact, expecting that is one of the root causes of problems in relationships. If the person was not considerate, they would not put their shoes away even after I have said something. They even apologised, which I in no way expected. Problem solved."

I can either walk around them, or if I trip over them, put them outside. Problem solved.



"Oh I see. Well if the smoke does bother you, then all you are doing, is not having guts to be assertive. If it does not bother you, why would you even care if someone stops it. "


" Then why even repeat "Smoke free restaurant in Ontario" - it is irrelevant to you. If you would be bothered by the smoke (and not everybody observes laws about it), then - what i said before."

Why keep question it? I am trying to communicate that in Ontario, restaurant are smoke free. No one fails to observe the law. I don't know if is just that people decided to accept that restaurants are smoke free, or if the reason they don't do it is the multi thousand dollar fines involved.

"On the same note, I see you have conveniently decided not to comment on my hypothetical scenario of hiring a stinky. Could that be because you would have to admit - that - God forbid - you would have to say something to them?"

Sigh! Why would anyone hire anyone who came to an interview stinking? The stink would automatical speak for it's self. Some goes for meet and greets. If the personal stinks, they automatically remove themselves from the dating pool. It isn't my job to teach anyone to wash. I wouldn't appoint myself to correct them.


"except I don't ditch people because they don't put phones on chargers. There is tiny stuff, which I just let be, there is small repeated stuff, which I express myself about, there is big stuff, which I express myself about too, but more strongly, and then only there is break up stuff."

Sounds more like communicating that changing people to meet your standards is the issue.

Errr, yeah?? The whole thread is about communication. You cannot change anybody anyway. My point is that the phone situation is a minor conflict, which you may wish to communicate, if it becomes too much."

You are welcome to handle communication in the way you see fit.

I prefer not to associate with people who require much communication to make them aware that they are high maintenance in the communication department.

Different ways of living life for different people.

"People who are different in my opinion provide more stimulating interaction and learning opportunities. "

Friends who are similiar to me have different opinions than me on many things. We accept the others opinions without a need to change it. We understand each other and listen and accept what the other person is saying.

We just don't feel the need to have rules of conduct that they other person has to live by. Bascially we don't do things that would bother the group. Some smoke while others don't. The smokers remove themselves from the group when they go for a cigarette. No need for anyone to ask them to do it. This is the way it has always been even before the smoking ban. We consider it (and situations like it) to be being considerate of other people. Now, if a new person joined the group who tried to smoke, they would be asked to smoke in the smoking area. Recently, we were standing outside a restaurant and I started that my vehicle has never been smoked in. I had already offer a ride home to one of the ladies. She got in my vehicle with the cigarette she had just lit. Of course I said "this is a no smoking vehicle", and she tossed her cigarette out. My guess is that she just wasn't thinking because she smokes in her own vehicle, and is rarely in my vehicle. I didn't need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

" Especially since they see you pick it up after them day after day after day, without letting them know it bothers you. "

If they don't get the message but my through their shoes outside, then they and their shoes are too high maintenance to be welcome in my home. I get that children may do this, but adults leaving shoes for people to trip over. If this is typical of their behaviour, then people have tripped over their shoes before, and they haven't learned from it.
 Discerning Virtuosa
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 130
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I FEEL statement elicits better communication.. Has it worked for you?
Posted: 10/1/2010 10:47:48 AM
Even though it doesn't work with everyone, I prefer to use a gentle approach like "I feel...........". If you are approaching a sensitive subject with the wrong person they can still completely overlook wording and tone, projecting their anger onto you. Take for example a man who has a low opinion of women in general, to say " I feel I would respond better to more foreplay", and a guy will say "you women are always b!tching".
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