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 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 208
Just looking for friendsPage 9 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
@ OP. It is common knowledge that women deal in code. What codes they use is up for discussion. Its how they are wired. They arent made to be simple and upfront. When they say "I'm just looking for friends", that does not mean friends with benefits. That means that they ultimately hope to be in a relationship, but for the time being they want to find a guy who is willing to be their friend first, get to know their personality, completely finance all of their dates, and when she feels that he is worthy enough and has spent enough money on her then she will bring up the idea of a relationship. Besides, its alot easier for women to say they are just looking for friends versus them saying they just want to use men for their money and time because they have been used by men in the past and dont want to put themselves out there so quick anymore.


Okay, that's one male interpretation of women who claim they're "just looking for friends". But how would you explain the large number of men who also claim they're "just looking for friends", or "friends first"? I'm curious how you would construe their motives? Obviously, they wouldn't be exactly the same as a woman's---e.g. "looking for free dinners".
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 209
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/11/2014 12:03:11 AM
But how would you explain the large number of men who also claim they're "just looking for friends", or "friends first"? I'm curious how you would construe their motives? Obviously, they wouldn't be exactly the same as a woman's---e.g. "looking for free dinners".

Oh, great point. They're BSing too. :) It's a people thing. They're wanting to feel in control in the not-fully-controllable dating world. They want an open-ended word like "Friends" to stretch & change it's definition as they see fit to accommodate their comfort zone and what they want when they want.

I think both parties can be "innocent" as far as not just wanting to get free dinners or a hit-n-run. But not doing so doesn't mean they're free of being deceptive -- and I think that's what some folks don't get. I think some people do it not with free-dinner/easy-sex as the Focal Point at all (but still as a potential bonus possibly?).

I think some people do it to avoid any obligations, tension, awkwardness, not feeling in control, and potential confrontation... they're wanting to change what they mean by "Friends" on the fly or retroactively.

Guy (to girl who's Not a prime prospect): "Yeah, we had too many drinks, we hooked up -- but remember, I'm not looking to date, we're just friends, remember?"

Guy (to girl who is, lying in bed): "Yeah, what I meant by just friends first is when we're chatting online and just experiencing the first date. I really like you. We're obviously not Just friends..."

Girl (to guy who's Not a prime prospect): "Yeah, we've gone out to dinner several times, and you were a gentleman for paying the bill. I can see if you like me that you didn't Like me getting that guy's number at the bar, but we're just friends, remember?"

Girl (to guy who is): "Well, you've obviously taken me out to dinner several times and we've both enjoyed our dates. What I meant by friends is when we're chatting online and just experiencing the first outing to get a feel for one another. We're obviously not merely friends... I like to take things slow, that's all."

BUT, I will say, there isn't a shortage of gals who state they're not looking to date but Just looking to make New Friends -- many of them will be like the guys and be NSA-like.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 210
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/11/2014 6:42:56 AM
Oh, great point. They're BSing too. :) It's a people thing. They're wanting to feel in control in the not-fully-controllable dating world. They want an open-ended word like "Friends" to stretch & change it's definition as they see fit to accommodate their comfort zone and what they want when they want.

I think both parties can be "innocent" as far as not just wanting to get free dinners or a hit-n-run. But not doing so doesn't mean they're free of being deceptive -- and I think that's what some folks don't get. I think some people do it not with free-dinner/easy-sex as the Focal Point at all (but still as a potential bonus possibly?).

I think some people do it to avoid any obligations, tension, awkwardness, not feeling in control, and potential confrontation... they're wanting to change what they mean by "Friends" on the fly or retroactively.


I’m in full agreement with you. I think it’s a control issue and it’s definitely deceptive---regardless of which gender uses it. I just wanted to hear it coming from a man, since it’s usually presented from the male perspective regarding women. This was actually a major sticking point between myself and another man from the forums, who happened to be “pro-friends first” in the "Friends First" thread that was deleted.

As you pointed out, “friends” is a very ambiguous term that one can easily twist and bend to suit their agenda. It was partly for this very same reason, that I wasn't keen on the idea of dating people who maintained a “just friends” relationship with ex-sexual partners.
 nyceguy85
Joined: 1/11/2013
Msg: 211
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/11/2014 7:52:08 AM

Okay, that's one male interpretation of women who claim they're "just looking for friends". But how would you explain the large number of men who also claim they're "just looking for friends", or "friends first"? I'm curious how you would construe their motives? Obviously, they wouldn't be exactly the same as a woman's---e.g. "looking for free dinners"


Thats the difference between many men and women. 9 times out of 10, Men who are on a dating website and claim to just be looking for friends are simply looking for friends with benefits or a sort of common law marriage. They arent looking for any official title or platonic friends... on a dating website. If they wanted friends that badly, they could get friendzoned by the many women they meet on a daily basis. Men who are looking for a relationship will usually be very decisive about it. If they dont state upfront that they are looking for one, they are more likely looking for FWB's and hoping to find a woman that wants the same.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 212
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/11/2014 11:40:33 AM
As you pointed out, “friends” is a very ambiguous term that one can easily twist and bend to suit their agenda.

Yep. Many guys & gals will do this without any aimed ill-intention. They believe this ambiguity is fair game, and it takes the pressure off them -- they're not fans of the awkwardness, "rules", and complications of the dating game. Hey, I don't want to complicate things. I want to go simple! What's wrong with that? That's the innocent mentality, and may seem so on the surface. But underneath it all -- it's unnecessary and actually Does complicate things beyond a 1st meetup if any one person likes the other (hence, more than one meetup/date).

Defining things as (just) "friends first" is completely unnecessary and non-applicable, if you're talking merely about a 1st meetup.
- First, you can just say you'd like to just meetup with no-expectations, and you don't like to kick things off as a "Date".
- Second, you literally are not just (actual) friends after merely meeting once anyway.
- Third, you're definitely not datING just by meeting up once -- even if it was a tride and true "Date".
- You can just refer to the first point -- that takes care of everything. No need to complicate things.

But most people who use "just friends" (at first) mean still Beyond that first-meetup, as that's what the phrase Means:

- If she's doable but not all that dateable -- a decent Plan B or C -- I can keep her around. She can't complain because, hey, we're merely friends (at first). I don't have the pressure of "leading her on" -- I already defined it as merely being friends.

- If she's dateable but not so fitting for a Relationship -- I can keep her around too. I'll keep water down this dating by use of the word "just friends" (even though it's not), so I can Feel that it's non-complicated.

Essentially, you're making it easier to avoid the Confrontation of any complications -- but you're making the situation itself more complicated if you're going to be hanging out with them more than once by keeping it in this ambiguous fog. And as pointed out earlier, it's completely unnecessary when applied to first-meet-only.
 that_ol_lady
Joined: 4/19/2013
Msg: 213
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/12/2014 4:53:51 PM
Sure we all have said this phrase an yes 90% of the time there is more to it then Oh im just looking for a buddy ol pal to go to church with..

hell I am saying that now but then I explain further just what kind of friendship I am seeking.."devilish smile"

anyhow I think once 2 people have crossed that line sexually with each other you can no longer say oh we are just strictly friends uhhhhh no ya not..strict platonic friends don't kiss rub hump ride an lick each other..

too many men are quick to throw out the oh she just a friend card knowing dam well their d ick probably still smells like her p ussy from last night..an the so called lady friend in question probably thinks the 2 of them are dating..

its a cop out to say oh I told you I just wanted friendship an nothing more that is weak an sending out mixed signals if you are constantly sexing an spending time with a certain female or females..if you want just a platonic friend then stay in your lane an keep them hands to ya self...
 AngelaGray
Joined: 11/14/2012
Msg: 214
view profile
History
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/13/2014 12:42:16 PM
@Confident-Realist
so basically you're saying the whole Friends option paired with the hang outs and not single not looking is totally incoherent and not allowed? Why even have friends as an option? Pointless. I think you guys are being incredibly ridiculous and this is just fueled by rage and jealousy from not understanding peoples profiles. I have let my boyfriend do that have they met in person no have they done anything other than just talk no how do I know all I have to do is ask and look if I'm really that concerned. Like I said some of you are just ridiculously whining. If it were not allowed they would be deleted. If you don't like it report them end of story stop sooking.
 AngelaGray
Joined: 11/14/2012
Msg: 215
view profile
History
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/13/2014 12:54:06 PM
@confident-realist
Also just going to add no where on this site does it say you can not use this site to make platonic friendships. However I've received messages from the maker to report anyone using this site to cheat (which there are a lot of people doing) or to look for quick hook ups or sex. So far no warning about platonic friendships sorry unless you can provide me where it says this isn't allowed I may believe you.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 216
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/13/2014 5:42:56 PM
so basically you're saying the whole Friends option paired with the hang outs and not single not looking is totally incoherent and not allowed?

Nope, I'm not saying that. :)

First, under "Looking For" -- You can't pair Friends & Hang-Out. It's one or the other.
Second, "Not Single and Not Looking" trumps it all. You're not looking for anything -- friends, romance, or even your cat.

I think you guys are being incredibly ridiculous and this is just fueled by rage and jealousy from not understanding peoples profiles.

Jealousy for what? If you were on here upset hammering about how this site is just fine for finding cats and parrots -- I would have the same position. NO, the site is not for finding cats & parrots. You COULD buy one from someone you engage with... I'm sure people have bought pets from people. That's not the aim for a user account. Yes, such people will be laughed at. Does that make me jealous because I don't have a cat?

Also just going to add no where on this site does it say you can not use this site to make platonic friendships.

And it doesn't say you can't use the site for the Sole Purpose of finding lost coins. Or a cat. Or a lost watch. It also doesn't say it's not for learning how to rob a jewelry store. You're going backwards, my dear. :) What DOES it say it's about?

Again, I'm pointing out the fact that it's not a site to find new PLATONIC people. It clearly states that it is not for that. Oh, but a "Friends" option you say! Yes, not all "Friends" is purely platonic. Additionally, the site could be improved -- sure. But if it was geared for Platonic Also as it's aim, it wouldn't just advertise it and display itself differently -- it would also operate differently like being able to not only select Both genders, but a "Man Looking For a Man" wouldn't assume one's gay.

This site, like many others, make their money off advertisements (visitors). They make the point clear what it's about. They're not going to kick you off because you're looking for cats either.

I have let my boyfriend do that have they met in person no have they done anything other than just talk no how do I know all I have to do is ask and look if I'm really that concerned.

Really really naive move there. This isn't a social networking site. This is a find-someone-non-platonic, when you looking to meet someone (matchmaking engine). If you let your boyfriend join POF or Match or OKC (they all serve the Same Purpose) to meet a girl -- you're walking in blind. Bad mistake -- I have to believe you're joking. :)
 patchman1313
Joined: 8/18/2013
Msg: 218
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/14/2014 12:17:13 AM
If you want a friend, why not shop at "friends r us"? I heard they got a great selection..... and it's free.
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 219
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/15/2014 10:49:36 AM
Why not just say I'm looking to date and takes things slow. Easy enough. We all know what friends mean. Why come on to a DATING site say I'm looking for friends with the possibilty of more in the future and then proceed to describe attributes you're looking for in a date? The problems is some women will do let's be friends first or were just friends but in reality what they want is pseudo dating. In reality, how many people begin new friendships with people under the premise that they may want to date them down the road?

Put it this way...if a woman saw a guy who is she being "friends first" (or for her taking things slow) out with another woman, is she going to react the same way a platonic female friend would or the way a woman who has a possible romantic interest in a guy would?

If taking things slow is important to a woman, just communicate it to the guy. If it works for him...great. If it doesn't he should feel free to say so and walk from the situation (or the she can walk away if the guy isn't on board with what she's looking for).
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 220
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/15/2014 11:40:52 AM
This is for all the males of the species who actually want to absorb this. Women are so incredibly pressed when they first meet men to have sex way too early with a stranger than we have to use these labels on what we want because we want to take it "slowly" and not have sex with strangers and not have anything to do with players who want to have sex with a big long list of women they find online. I'm sure you'll tell us what we are wanting because patronizing females is the name of the game on this forum site.


Speak for yourself---not all of us women slap ambiguous labels on dating and call it "friendship" just because we want to take things slowly. Some of us are actually articulate enough to speak our minds without the use of labels.

Moreover, not all of us women want to put artificial time constraints on when sex occurs---some of us prefer to let it happen organically---whether it be the second date, third date, fourth date, or whenever both partners feel ready.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 222
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/15/2014 12:51:05 PM

Moreover, not all of us women want to put artificial time constraints on when sex occurs---some of us prefer to let it happen organically---whether it be the second date, third date, fourth date, or whenever both partners feel ready.


AGREED! ^^^
===

Really need to get past this hostility you are hiding inside


Proco: I know you know this.....many people with hostility issues can't seem to get past their "bad" experiences.....
===

Just looking for friends


If I see this in a profile....I pass. Simple. Keep it simple people! ;)
If you see something in a profile that doesn't fit what you seek, skip it.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 223
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/15/2014 1:35:01 PM

Women are so incredibly pressed when they first meet men to have sex way too early with a stranger than we have to use these labels on what we want because we want to take it "slowly" and not have sex with strangers

So you're basically saying LIE to all men, because you've dealt with too many players, inconsiderate guys, etc.? Not good. One of the traps of the singles/dating scene is to treat all women as the "female species" or all men as the "male species" as if they're all the same. One ends up taking their frustration out on the opposite sex and feels they "deserve" to do that, or in the very least lose sight of key elements and become too self-centered that's Not for their benefit.

"I'm Up Here, you're Down There... you have to prove yourself to Me, you negative little 'species'," -- that mindset only propagates playing baby games. If you are Not looking for platonic situations, don't say "I want to be Just Friends." That's a lie and inaccurate. You're only propagating the concept of baby games that nobody likes. Say what you mean -- "I want to take things slow, I like to get to know each other for a good while," etc.

Don't fall into the category of this adage: "When someone stammers that they hate games and don't play games -- they mean they don't want to play Your games, just theirs."

At least the girl above who I was arguing with Actually Meant it. That argument was about whether or not the Matchmaking Engine is purely non-platonic as it's purpose (which it is just as much Match's is).

I'm sure you'll tell us what we are wanting because patronizing females is the name of the game on this forum site.

You seem to have real issue with men. You shouldn't take it out on all of them. There's no shortage of guys who Don't want to press for sexual relations on the 1st date. There's no shortage of classic "Mr Nice Guys" out there either.

In essence: Don't lie. Call a spade a spade. Not all guys are the same, not all women are the same.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 224
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/15/2014 2:59:48 PM
confident realist- Here's a confession:
The stress of trying to impress makes some people, including me, anxious.
In case you haven't noticed, honesty isn't an issue with me.
I do sometimes take the chance and ask that for the first date, we approach things on a friends basis just to take some of the pressure off.
I make it clear that I'm not saying never to sex and/or a relationship, it's about trying to relax so it's a little easier to be myself.
Then again, if they agree, maybe it's naive of me to think that they aren't evaluating their chances of going home with me anyway.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 225
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/16/2014 3:27:11 PM

In case you haven't noticed, honesty isn't an issue with me.

No, I haven't noticed that... and I wouldn't assume that about anybody. :)

I do sometimes take the chance and ask that for the first date, we approach things on a friends basis just to take some of the pressure off.

But why LIE? You don't have to do that for the pressure. Your profile says you are looking for a relationship and under Looking For you selected Dating.

If you REALLY mean on a friends basis -- a platonic basis -- then he can hit on the waitress. He should have Zero expectation to pay for your part of the bill, any more than his buddy's gf's bill who he's friends with. He should be able to hit on the waitress -- even kiss her with you right there at some point -- and it not being an issue with you.

You don't have to declare JUST friends to "take the pressure off". You can say you want to take things chill, no-expectations, just a meetup and not a "date date". That's all that's required. If that isn't good enough for someone and they demand to stick to the phrase "Just Friends" -- all while they are looking for potential mate -- they're doing Role Playing -- not actually being themselves.

There's a HUGE difference between declaring something as Platonic vs Non-Platonic. Huge. Cut and dry. Just because a guy & gal don't make out on a date doesn't mean it's platonic (just friends).

Stay away from the games and just say "I like my first meetup to not be a real 'date', I just like it to be chill with no-expectations." I *totally* understand not wanting a "D-A-T-E". That's what brings the pressure. But don't pretend it's 100% platonic -- that's just role-playing.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 226
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/17/2014 1:08:10 PM
Confident-Realist- I said I tell them it's just an approach for the FIRST date, to do exactly as you put it "chill with no expectations".
I get what you are saying though, I may just stop doing that, I don't want to mislead or confuse anyone, although that isn't my intention, I can see how it could seem that way to the man.
Truthfully, It would be better just to admit I get nervous for the first meet and leave out the friends part, because friends, long term, isn't my intention and I wouldn't want to put anyone off.
I haven't done it many times, but it's probably time to ax that approach.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 227
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/17/2014 2:24:34 PM

I said I tell them it's just an approach for the FIRST date, to do exactly as you put it "chill with no expectations".

The only issue I throw out there is the concept of saying "let's just be friends". Yes, it's better if you throw in "like" in there, as far as role-playing's concerned. That is better to make that known, sure. But it does still raise an eyebrow and can make someone else wondering too much. How long is this role-playing "like" friends have to last? She's been flirting with me, right? So is this "friends" thing over with? If she wants to hang out again, is she going to want to be "friends" if she's acting the same way she was the 1st time? The pressure taken off doesn't need role-playing as just friends or obviously trying to Actually Be Just Friends. That can just complicate things or turn a guy off a bit.

Just saying you like to have a meetup before a 1st Date can be expressed in the First Date section, and implied/said when you're setting up your first meetup with a guy. That's enough to take the edge off.

Truthfully, It would be better just to admit I get nervous for the first meet and leave out the friends part, because friends, long term, isn't my intention and I wouldn't want to put anyone off.

Yeah. The good thing is that you don't have your profile looking for no-commitment + "Friends", and if you say specifically for a 1st Date, it's not a travesty by any means - lol. Just head-scratching I'm sure behind the scenes for a few. Dating already has it's fair share of natural mixed signals... many people wince when the potentiality for one's thrown in early on.
 DiezelPhoenix
Joined: 5/15/2013
Msg: 228
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/19/2014 9:04:36 AM

This is for all the males of the species who actually want to absorb this. Women are so incredibly pressed when they first meet men to have sex way too early with a stranger than we have to use these labels on what we want because we want to take it "slowly" and not have sex with strangers and not have anything to do with players who want to have sex with a big long list of women they find online. I'm sure you'll tell us what we are wanting because patronizing females is the name of the game on this forum site.


All I absorbed from that post was bitterness and resentment.
I'm sure you'll tell us what we are wanting because patronizing males is the name of your game.
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 229
view profile
History
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/19/2014 11:03:34 AM
Speak for yourself---not all of us women slap ambiguous labels on dating and call it "friendship" just because we want to take things slowly. Some of us are actually articulate enough to speak our minds without the use of labels.

Moreover, not all of us women want to put artificial time constraints on when sex occurs---some of us prefer to let it happen organically---whether it be the second date, third date, fourth date, or whenever both partners feel ready.


Thank you.

This is one of those classic guy/gal frustrations. Many of us men become frustrated with women who say one thing and mean another. Many women resort to evasive tactics to hold the horn dogs at bay. All wish the others would just behave in a way that works better for us.

It gets tiresome as a respectful man to be tarred by a gender wide brush. Fortunately that aspect of dating, I find, gets easier as we age. One of the few aspects of middle age dating that IS easier. Far more women in my age bracket are more direct and honest, and the jaded ones are pretty easy to spot and avoid. I don't think any of us from either gender want to bear the brunt of responsibility for every past transgression of our own gender.

I devote a portion of my profile to clarifying that its not the type of relationship I seek, but the type of woman. I too prefer to let things happen organically. If I enjoy your company and you mine we will figure out soon enough what works best for us. Happily ever after may be the ideal, but not having found that yet and being more than hallway through my life I've got too much quality living to do yet to hold out for perfection and reject opportunities for fulfilling companionship.

I resent being forced to pick what we are looking for in order to participate in this site, so I clarify in my profile. And honestly I pay no attention to what an interesting woman fills in that blank with. Once we interact and certainly once we meet it all becomes either much more clear or much more clear that she doesn't really know what she wants.

Some women present in person just as they do in their profile. Some just the opposite. I've had equal measure of prudish profiles result in over the top first date advances as I have highly sexed profiles turn into stand offish dates. And then there are those who keep flipping from hot to cold and back again. Such is the adventure of dating. All we can do is figure it out the best we can as we go.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 230
Just looking for friends
Posted: 2/19/2014 12:31:51 PM
Halc

Artificial time constraints. Your d*mn right I'll do that, I don't find joy in having 25 plus or more sex partners in order to know who is serious or not about a relationship.


Neither do I---and I managed to convey that with honesty and without using the label of "friendship". A novel idea, eh?


You go play Russian Roulette with your feelings I'll keep mine until someone has invested some time in being with me, just not being with me on my back with my legs parted.


I didn't play Russian Roulette with my feelings. In fact, I met a great guy on another dating site, whom I've been involved with for almost three years. If you don't enjoy sex and can only think of it in terms of "being on your back with your legs parted", therein lies your main difficulty with men.
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 231
Just looking for friends
Posted: 3/15/2014 10:04:24 PM
Yikes, a polarizing and touchy subject..friends.

If the word 'friends' comes up before or during the first or 2nd date? Not good.

'I have a friend you might like' - bad.

'If we meet and don't have chemistry, we can always be friends, right?' - bad and NO.

'I'm hanging out with my friends Saturday' = Not interested OR you're the accessory to her/his existing life

'Me and my FRIENDS are hanging out at Club X. Want to join US?' - hmm, no, I do not.

Even if the other person is discussing their friends in general, it's not a good sign.

If I dig a woman, I don't discuss plans with my 'friends' with her.

Why? Because I'll make time for her and my 'friends' would understand that. Or..I'll include her with my 'friends'.

Friends first is always fine and understood. Friends ONLY is not.
 margareta08
Joined: 2/28/2014
Msg: 232
Just looking for friends
Posted: 3/16/2014 12:24:18 AM
I have to say that I have never heard a man admit he presses women for sex on first date or second, at least not on here. However, many women complain that men from dating sites, do just that. When they comply they are gone or if they dont comply, they are gone.....lol!!! If a guy doesnt want to take it more slowly and a woman is not ready, then let him go. Simple. Trying to hold a guy with sex hardly ever works.
 Ozoner4Life
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 233
Just looking for friends
Posted: 3/16/2014 3:26:28 AM
I was looking for friends on this site for a long time (female friends; I didn't write to other men). It wasn't an excuse for anything; I had too many family issues and time commitments and didn't want to date. During that time period, I wrote to a lot of women that I wasn't even remotely attracted to. It didn't go that well because I ended up chatting with a woman who (it turned out) wanted some kind of FWB situation (she called it being "polyamorous").
 Ozoner4Life
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 234
Just looking for friends
Posted: 3/16/2014 3:37:07 AM
@AngelaGray

Also just going to add no where on this site does it say you can not use this site to make platonic friendships.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Angela. Even though I'm looking for a relationship now, I still might write to women whom I could only see as friends. (PS-I noticed that you're from PEI. That locale plays a role in a family mystery.)
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