Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > When you trust too soon, are you the fool?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 greatfnguy
Joined: 8/14/2010
Msg: 26
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

Real trust is earned

IMO this is not true.
Trust is not a payment for good behavior.
It's a personal responsibility and personal choice.


grows gradually when a person's words and actions match over time.

So basically you trust repetitive behavior.
Great.
That's one of the easiest things a "player" can get around.

You know, sit online for a couple of months, never talk about sex, be polite and gentlemanly, then after first date and no physical gratification poof, they are gone. And we get threads about that.

Or be charming and nice and pursue and text/email/phone constantly for weeks and weeks...then ask for space.

People understand the repetitive consistency = trust game.

No one actually pays attention to behavior and words on a deeper meaning, representing morals and beliefs and values.

It's basically "behave the same way, how I expect, and I will reward you."
That's how we get people looking for idealized relationship goals, and lists of attributes people need to have. "Behave like this, and I will respond, because I know how, and I trust it."

How has that been working for you?

You learn a persons morals, beliefs, values, world paradigm, and then you trust they will always live up to who they "really" are.
That is what you are looking for over time. Not just consistency. Consistency helps, it's not the purpose.
You also have to put the energy of thought and effort into it.

And you can only really "know" them if you "know" yourself.

Relying primarily or solely upon repetitive consistent behavior is for lazy people that don't take responsibility.


Trust is like a structure, it starts at the foundations and each truth contributes another brick.

Again with the payment perspective.
Kind of like a mommy with a chore chart "Okay kiddie, you earned a gold start today. You almost have a full chart of gold stars! If you get the full chart you get a prize!"

IMO you are confusing "trust" with "knowing" with "ability to take for granted."


It can only be given completely when you truly know and have confidence in someone.

I love this statement.
If it was this alone and there wasn't an OP full of contradictory ideas I wouldn't have bothered to respond.
Although personally I would have changed "given" to "rewarding."


So who are the ones with the issues...the ones who question...or the ones who immediately jump off the deep end by "trusting" and not questioning virtual strangers ?

Based on the OP it's both.
 pandusvenator
Joined: 11/17/2009
Msg: 27
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 12:03:55 PM

Most people, or so it seems to me, who give trust slowly because they believe it must be earned have great difficulty identifying just what exactly someone must do/say/be - and for how long - in order to earn their trust.


This is true Margo. I will shoot from the hip here. I honestly believe that those with the most inability to trust are the least trustworthy.

If you meet someone and they "lied" or were less than completely honest with you, why would you get upset? Now weighing 250 when you and your pics say 125 then there should be an issue. You wasted gas and time. Ask for a refund.

The most trustable people I know seem to attract trustworthy people. Completely honest interaction? Hell no. I will withhold many things about my life and my experiences until I get to know you more. This is called an omission. This is perfectly classified as a lie. Anything asked that you don't answer is a lie of omission.

I expect her to leave plenty of things out. I think that's human. But I also expect certain things and thus I get them. If you expect to run into lies and domestic weirdoes...I guarantee you will get them. In fact you probably deserve it.
 LongLensman
Joined: 9/7/2010
Msg: 28
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 12:09:55 PM
Everyone is given the benefit of the doubt until their words and actions don't line up like they should.
After you've lived in your skin awhile you will develop instincts that will protect you from being the fool.
People that are slow to trust someone else might be just lacking self-confidence.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 29
view profile
History
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 12:51:57 PM

Most people, or so it seems to me, who give trust slowly because they believe it must be earned have great difficulty identifying just what exactly someone must do/say/be - and for how long - in order to earn their trust.

yep. it's the same as trying to prove innocence. it can't be done. you can't win with this kind of person.

and a person who would buy into a program where they would constantly have to be jumping through visible and invisible hoops is as screwed up as the person expecting them to do it. christ, imagine the drama if you misremember the dinner date as 7:30 instead of 6:30. 'i knew you'd blow me off! i knew you had no respect! i knew i couldn't trust you! goodbye, criminal!'


the ones with issues are the ones who jump in with both feet, start a full-blown involvement with someone they don't even know

bingo.
bingo.
bingo.
how about one more time? sure.
bingo.
listening, op? or are you too busy thinking up ways to entrap the next guy unfortunate enough to stick his toe in your pond?
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 30
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 3:04:11 PM
Trust? What are we trusting a newly met date on PoF *with*? Our lives, our bank accounts/credit cards? Our heart? None of this, eh? I have trusted that he'll show up approximately on time, look roughly like his pictures, have exactly the same job he said he had. Beyond that BE pretty much who he has said he is. If there starts to be a big factual disconnect, I'd prolly begin to decouple the trust connect. Guess when starting with me, you get a pocketful of gold doubloons, how you spend 'em is your choice.

Beyond that, I'm *not* going to plan on meeting one of the 4% who make up the sociopath population. I'm going to TRUST my own gut on that one. I'm going to TRUST myself not to give my heart away to an unworthy suitor. I'm going to TRUST myself not to hand over passwords too soon. I'm also going to TRUST that I can't create a relationship on my own without the other's help. If they can't or won't provide that help, I TRUST that I'll survive it, and hopefully learn something without too much pain.

Live long and prosper, all! And learn to trust yourselves a bit, eh?
 Chill Pill
Joined: 6/5/2010
Msg: 31
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 3:45:54 PM
"""When you trust too soon, are you the fool?"""

No, you are not the fool. The person who loses trust is the fool. The liar. The one being decieptful. The one that misrepresents themself and expects you to overlook it.
The person that creates the fantasy is the fool. The married man that perpetuates the
lie that he is seperated, or estranged. He is the fool.
The woman that posts pic of herself 40 pounds thinner. Any one who meets you on
false pretense. THEY ARE THE FOOLS.

I blanket trust. That doesn't make me a fool. I may be a victim if I discover someone in a lie. I'm a volunteer if I continue to let someone lie to me. The volunteers are the foolish ones. You have to decide where your threshold is for a liar and what explanations do not add up. You have to use your intellect and trust your intuaition. You have to decide what are healthy boundaries for you. You have to know what's acceptable and not. You have to use your own common sence a greater percentage of the time and discern your own truths. You have to eventually know in your heart that a person has gained your complete trust. You have to have faith that if you pray for the truth it will always be revealed to you.

The real FOOL is the liar. You can lie to a thousand people, but there is one person who knows the truth. That's YOU. If you lie, you have to look yourself in the mirror and face the FOOL. I know a Scooty ,that must have to do that everyday. Man. I would hate the agony of looking at my face and knowing how I lied to my wife and then sleep with her every night. The FOOL is the one that is untrustworthy and thinks he has got away with it!! Yes, he may have with every body else, but you can't get away with it
with yourself.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 32
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 4:06:58 PM
^^^^^^^Exactly what she said^^^^^^^and I couldn't have said it better myself.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 33
view profile
History
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 4:09:55 PM
There is something else that is a BIG part of the issue of 'trust' in relationships, which I think needs to be inserted somewhere in between labeling someone as either a 'fool,' or as being 'justifiably cautious.'
Before one begins to start trusting someone ELSE, they have to be able to trust THEMSELVES. From what I've observed, more people who suffer from "trust issues," or who are "deceived" by someone else, actually have a much bigger problem in the "knowing themselves" department.
Both the forums and the "real" world are full of people complaining that they were fooled by someone else, when what actually happened was, that they CHOSE to cross a line they KNEW better than to cross, on the grounds of some fantasy they didn't even recognize was in charge of their lives. At the other end of things, we see people who are so insistent on someone new "proving themselves," that they never risk so much as a handshake, and so they stop growing as people, and as potential mates. Both sorts of people have as their primary problem, that they don't know their own desires and limits.
So I would say that someone who "jumps off the deep end," because they KNOW they will recover even if they ARE wrong, are NOT fools. Just as someone who is cautious and careful, literally to a fault, are NOT wise.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 34
view profile
History
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 4:33:12 PM
Wooby brings up a good point relative to how invested one is initially. Do you find that they have lied to you or that as the layers of the onion unravel, that you don't like what you see? Ties in with Margo's input as well because more often than not, many of the sagas one reads on the forums are much less related to people intentionally not being who they are but because they believe themselves to be the person they presented to you to begin with. In most cases, the time it takes to see if words match actions, for example, is how long it takes you to figure out whether the person is remotely close to that initial presentation or not.
 colt8301
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 35
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 4:47:32 PM

So who are the ones with the issues...the ones who question...or the ones who immediately jump off the deep end by "trusting" and not questioning virtual strangers ?



Personally I don't think anyone has an issue. I have am started to realize we have differences. From the inside looking out, someone who trusts any and everybody are acting "foolish" I don't really want to call them a fool, because I have to take into account where these "foolish" people come from. If they come from a place everybody knows everybody(safe-gated-closed off-communities) I can see how they would be gullible. To be honest I kind of envy their care free attitude, not worrying if somebody going to f^&* you over. I can't do that though, I came up with "wolves"(every man for himself types), being with them no one can be trusted when your back is turned, i expect people to f^&*up, call it a defense mechanism, I call it staying on my toes.
 TDH49
Joined: 8/13/2010
Msg: 36
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 5:27:09 PM
There's a name for someone who trust people immediately....fool!


Well slap me in that category.

When I was about 12 years old I left New York to visit my aunt in Toronto Canada. One day we were about to take the subway and I saw the most amazing thing, it was a newpaper stand but unlike anyone I have ever seen before. The newpapers were just out in the open on a table, on top of the stack of newspapers was a change tray. I watched and people would go up and take a paper and then they would either put the exact change in the tray or they would take their change from the tray after putting in a larger bill. I was amused by this, I turned to my aunt and said what a fool the owner of this stand was, surely he would be robbed blind and be out of business in no time flat. My aunt then turned to me and said Something that stayed with me all these years, she said " Allen if you trust the people you come across in life, most of the time they will prove themselves worthy of your trust. And don't ever let the few that prove themselves unworthy stop you from trusting in the future".

I have always lived my life by those words. Everyone that comes across my path in life gets a clean slate. It's then up to them what they choose to write on that slate. I learn from my mistakes but I don't drag my past around like a oversized set of samsonite luggage. If someone betrayed by trust in the past, that's not a green light for me to punish everyone I come across in the future for it. Everyone should have a chance to write their own history, it would be totally unfair of me or anyone else to be having the new person in my life paying the bill for the sins of my ex or anyone that's betrayed me in the past.


Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice. shame on me


This really does not apply here. This is based on the same person fooling you more than once. But nowhere does this say you should start out mistrusting, it in fact say you should give the person a chance to fool you once. Which to me means start out trusting, then if that trust is betrayed make adjustments, if you fail to make adjustments then the next time it's on you. Which is as it should be.
 shakeitupbaby2012
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 37
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 6:06:25 PM
Just as there are all types of people, one will find different factions in regard to trust, as illustrated in these thread responses. There is both implied and earned trust, and variations between the two. I heartily agree with this statement and it is basically the summation of my idea of trust:

Very true, and if there is no mutually expressed respect to begin with, then another potential partner may disappear before real trust has time to grow..
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 38
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 6:12:40 PM
tdh49 ... That was very well said!

What an excellent read.

 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 39
view profile
History
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 6:35:50 PM
tdh49 ... That was very well said!
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 40
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 6:38:07 PM
If I have to earn the trust of another.........Seriously, I'm gonna need a list of all the people that betrayed that trust, so I know what I'm up against and I can decide whether it's worth earning.

But really, I shouldn't have to earn the trust of another person. Trust is an honorable gift to give someone and an even greater gift to reciprocate by never betraying that trust.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 41
view profile
History
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 7:29:08 PM
I am of the mind that being foolish is a good thing. Charlie Chaplin said "Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself." The alternative to being a fool is to strive for security. Stepping out of that and being a fool is the way people have breakthroughs in their lives.

People who are reluctant to trust are trying to keep their world secure. Helen Keller said "Security is an illusion, it does not exist in nature. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."

Admittedly, to trust someone is putting yourself at risk. But what is it you are risking? Your heart? Looking foolish because it didn't work out the way you hoped? I've been in situations in my life where I was poised at a crossroad, deciding whether to do one thing or another. I had an A-HA! moment when I realized if I went ahead and did it and it worked out, I would be considered a brave person who gave someone or something a chance and if it didn't work out, I would be judged a fool. So much of what we do is judged in hindsight based on how it turned out. I can handle the downside, if all it is is being a little foolish.

The bottom line just has to be the person who never makes mistakes has not risked much at all. To live is to risk.
 x_file
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 42
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 8:15:56 PM

There's a name for someone who trusts people immediately...fool!


I trust everyone until they give me a reason not to. Of course, a stranger gets a different amount of trust than a friend, and friend gets a different amount of trust than a family member, and a family member gets a different amount of trust than my own intuition, reasoning ability & wisdom.



So who are the ones with the issues...the ones who question...or the ones who immediately jump off the deep end by "trusting" and not questioning virtual strangers ?


Both could have issues. It's not an "either or" case. And generally the latter is dumber than the former. And in certain circumstances, the former is dumber than the latter - some people have the natural gift of f*cking up good things.



Real trust is earned and grows gradually when a person's words and actions match over time.


Integrity as expressed by words and actions is not sufficient for me. Any player can pull that off with little effort.... even over time. People who rely on "time" to show them a person's true colors, rather their own ability and intuition will ultimately be disappointed.

Have you ever heard of the expression, "Too good to be true?"



Why would I object to someone I've just started dating checking or questioning something about me if I had nothing to hide?


I normally wouldn't.

But then I come across people who have this attitude... you know...they behave as if I am guilty until I prove to them that I'm innocent. As if I owe them something.

It's the attitude that's repulsive to me, and so by extension, they are, and thus I object to answering any of their questions - as I naturally want nothing to do with such a person.



You truly won't know someone's character until a reasonable amount of time has passed, and even then you might now know the real them.


Correct. Time and the ability to accurately judge a person are not related. And even if you could accurately judge a person, and have spent a lot of time with them, that still won't give you a reasonable estimate of the person's character... for it is "hard events" or "nature's tests" and how a person handles them, that really reveal a person's true nature.

Anyone can ride a good wave like a pro, but only a pro can ride a bad wave.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 43
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 8:24:53 PM
One word: intuition.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 44
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 8:31:32 PM
One red flag that I look for is when some one expects me to trust them

I don't trust others
I trust my judgment of others
That judgment is always ongoing
 92sc
Joined: 9/18/2010
Msg: 45
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 8:58:59 PM
Maybe one reason there are trust issues is because many jumped in the sack too soon in their 20's -30's?
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 46
view profile
History
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 9:18:58 PM
Trust is something to be earned. A guy I barely knew got offended because I didn't "trust" him when we went out hiking and he obviously had no idea where he was going. He thought I should automatically just trust him. I don't think so. Actually, I learned from that that I *couldn't* trust him because he acted like he knew more than he did. It's not just about being faithful. It's also about being reliable.

However, some people are suspicious from the get-go. You read on forums here - people going out, then checking up on their date when they get home to see if they're online. Who needs it? If you're that suspicious of someone, why bother?

Trust is built over time. When someone is consistent and reliable time and again, then I learn that I can trust them. If they are not, forget it.


One red flag that I look for is when some one expects me to trust them

I don't trust others
I trust my judgment of others
That judgment is always ongoing

Well put.
 CynthiaSMW
Joined: 9/20/2010
Msg: 47
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 9:29:13 PM

Real trust is earned and grows gradually when a person's words and actions match over time.

Quite the opposite.
I trust until his words and actions don't match.


They date for a matter of weeks or months



the ones who immediately jump off the deep end by "trusting" and not questioning virtual strangers ?

So how long does a person have to 'date' before you trust them? How long until they're no longer "virtual strangers"? I think I missed that page of the rule book.

And why would anyone want to 'date' someone who doesn't trust them?


when they don't give their trust 100% or they check to verify certain facts, they're branded as having "trust issues"! BUL***IT!

There's a name for someone who trusts people immediately...fool!

I'm guessing you frequently hear the word "drama".

I look at it this way - anyone I haven't met yet deserves a measure of trust before I meet them, its the same trust I give anyone really - I trust you're *probably* not out to find some way to 'screw me over', on the flip side - no, I'm not giving you my SSN and credit card information - that kind of trust *is* foolish.

This I agree with
 Smarts and Heart
Joined: 12/15/2009
Msg: 48
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/26/2010 10:04:50 PM
In our Western society people put different values on different things. What I see from these forums is that people's personal value of self has declined over time.

Would you entrust your bank card PIN numbers and bank accounts to someone you met 2-3 times? Would you entrust your car? Your home? Your computer passwords? These are only 'material things'! Yet people entrust and jeapordize their physical and mental well being to strangers daily as is evident by these forums. They rapidly become intimate and create psuedo relationships on preconceived assumptions. To "trust" is to make yourself vulnerable to, and to assume that a total stranger will act in a pre-determined way so as to not betray that trust. We're not taking about platonic friendships, we're talking about the most intimate of relationships.
How can you make that assumption about an unknown person's behaviour, and then complain, when it's not what you thought it should be? Perhaps that is the "norm" for that person. People are berated throughout these forums for jumping into relationship too fast and then you have people who are berated for being cautious.

It was another thread where the OP was asking whether she should confront a new guy she had been with, a few weeks, concerning his fishing activities on POF, mere weeks after they had mutually agreed to hide their profiles and become exclusive , that got me going. The response by many was that SHE had "trust issues" because she checked on him! Talk about advocating the ostridge mentally! She wouldn't have a "trust issue" if his actions weren't contrary to their agreement. Her checking would have re-affirmed her trust, if his words and actions had matched, thus building that trust. This had nothing to do with her past relationships, this had to do with HIS present actions. At what point does one say well I have a right to know?

To those that say "I trust everyone" until they give me a reason not to...what would that reason be? A possible STD? An undisclosed marriage? A person with multiple partners? Emptied bank accounts? Undisclosed criminal records? Constant failed short "relationships" which emotionally drain you and depress you?
There's no sense in crying over spilt milk if you don't take a minimum degree of care. One has to be accountable for their own actions.

I'm not advocating not trusting anyone; I'm advocating valuing one's self enough to want to take a minimum degree of precaution before foolishly trusting blindly. You meet someone and yes, you accept them at face value initially. When what is told to be true starts to be shown to be true, that's when trust is re-affirmed.

If all one is looking for is sex then none of this is relevant. They won't need to ask questions, because there's no intention of a LTR; just use condoms at the least!
But what I see here is mis-communication or deliberate misrepresentation of intentions that people are crying over. The ones that are looking for sex won't stick around long enough to want to share anything about themselves, nor will they be too concerned with finding anything about you. They'll "trust" you as they hope you'll "trust" them since you don't have to "prove" anything to each other!

A simple google search with my name would verify quite a bit about me. Interacting within my circle of friends would tell you even more. Talking to me would give you a sense of my values and mores; it just takes a little bit of time investment! What's the rush?! Is one's mental and physical well-being not worth it?

You have to love and value yourself first before you can expect someone else to. Wanting to know something about a person you're going to persue a possible relationship with and become intimate with, isn't being unreasonable; It's being responsible to each other and respecting each other's comfort level.
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 49
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/27/2010 2:01:34 AM
I agree with you op.Truth is earned over time not given at the drop of a hat.Everything we do and the more the we get to know each other is how trust is built.Just because you have known someone a month is no need to be foolish enough to trust them with your credit cards and pin number for your bank card,but it is enough time to trust them enough to get into a car with them,be alone with them and trust that they are not going to physically hurt you.

Just because a complete stranger who I have met once tells me that though he is still legally married he and his wife are separated and getting divorced.It may not be true and it may be true,but that does not mean that I will take him at his word just because he says so.It also doesn't mean I am going to automatically think he is lying.I will simply take the stance of wait and see.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 50
When you trust too soon, are you the fool?
Posted: 9/27/2010 5:10:33 AM
I think we are getting a little mixed up in how much we initially involve ourselves with a newly met person in regards to this "trust" thingy. Just like I wouldn't just give my PIN for bank account to someone I have just met and getting to know, I wouldn't give them my heart,,,,,or soul,,,,initially. Has very little to do with "trust", but more along the lines of common sense.

Initially, I'll "trust" that you won't waste my time,,,meeting for a coffee, waiting for a phone call, looking for that reply from an e-mail. If this fails,,,what have I lost????? Time???? A little effort on my part???? Not a biggie. If I don't, at the very least, "trust" someone with a little part of me, how do I, in good consience, ASK them, for a part of themselves????

Reading some of these replies, you now see an example of why there is confusion out there in this dating world, especially with those around my age. Too scared to give up "a little", in fear of losing "a lot". I see why now that most cannot even come close to opening the door that I have left slightly ajar. Too scared to lose even just a little bit of themselves(or even expose themselves a tad).
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > When you trust too soon, are you the fool?