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Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 24
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering AddictsPage 2 of 2    (1, 2)
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant the dating relationships didn't work out for other reasons, i.e., the fact of their being in recovery was not the problem. I did not mean that anyone I dated started using or drinking again, either one. They didn't.
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 25
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Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 11:08:42 AM

I stand corrected.
Joined: 3/20/2010
Msg: 26
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 11:27:01 AM

Go figure, someone who supports the addict and he looks totaly blasted holding a beer.

I think he is holding a cell phone not a bruski. Psh psh.

Joined: 10/2/2010
Msg: 27
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 11:36:17 AM

I see... I just have tried to help so many woman that relapse by giving themselves permission to use again because they want to blame some circumstance or CHOOSE a reason to pick up.

I frankly am not of the culture that believes in Aliens or giving ANY ONE a pat on the back for NOT USING... I don't believe that after anyone has maintained a period of sobriety or abstinance that it is anything else but a CHOICE to use. I never bought into the f&Cked up alibi that addiction is a disease or about anything else but the substance that YOU CHOSE TO ABUSE.

My reasoning is that there are healthy and positive avenues to resource for "emotional problems"... So I believe that it suffice to say that to blame your using on some circumstance is BULL SHYT... and I don't buy it.

Your an addict because of DRUGS... bottom line.

These circles that want to raise a flag and begin a parade because someone didnt drink for a month is all hype crap and while it may be all supportive for some egotistical chump who doesn't want to accept the reality of his using. It is still all bull shyt.

That is the WAY THEY SHOULD BE... I don't hand them a f&Cken cake for doing what they are supposed to do.

Needless to say my hard core approach caused a lot of woman to dump me because I wouldn't coddle them in their self analagies or give them some lame excuse beyond the USAGE of the drug. It was NOT okay to use again because they had some emotional pain. You grow up , you suck it up and you DO THE FEELINGS...

Feelings won't kill you but the drugs and booze will... first it will humilate you, take everything and then lead you to jails, institutions and death.

People that want to waltz around the bottom line are just fooling themselves. They
most often are the Drama Queens producing their own show, picking up over and over again like there is a revolving door to recovery and there ISNT.

PUT THE BLAME WHERE THE BLAME LIES... and that is in the DRUG itself. The drug made you an addict.

No offence Helen, to you or your point of you can see I am very passionate about recovery and have had 30 years sitting in halls watching people come in and out and back and forth with the same lame "emotional problem" to give them an excuse for their behavior.

After going to 6 funerals this year alone.... I'm very FED UP with some of the bull shyt I hear in the recovery culture. People that feed into over self analogy or trying to complicate the shyt out of something as simple as NOT PICKING UP... usually end up DEAD.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 28
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 11:45:07 AM
I don't disagree with any of that, Mistress Chill, my point is just that some therapy for the underlying problems that led one to begin in the first place probably helps to reduce recidivism.

It isn't either/or, IMO - one can stop using, pursue being clean and sober, and also work on one's emotional health at the same time. To me this seems the best recipe for a stable and lasting recovery. It was certainly working well for the fellow I mentioned. Seven years and counting.
Joined: 10/2/2010
Msg: 29
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 12:03:00 PM
You are absolutely right. As the OP speaks about people being DRY.
I agree with that and have witnessed men and woman both with multiple years of abstinance from their drug of choice just choosing substitutes ie: sex, food, and gambling addictions.

I do think that the only way for real healing to begin is to STOP USING.
Completely. You can not begin a therapuetic process and continute to bounce back and forth from the drug to the psych chair. Without putting the drug away there is NO HEALING.

From the over 50 plus woman I sponsored there was a very small percentage of woman that actually held their seat. For these they followed the program as it was laid out. 30, 60, 90 days of meetings and then after a year began the 12 step programs.
I conducted many AWOLS and the 4th and 5th steps should not begin until at least one has a year under their belt.. Also if the person is not in a marraige they should remain
celebate for at least the first year as well.

The initial solution is plain and simple ... ABSTINANCE... No matter WHAT. If the person does not accept that first step.. that they are POWERLESS and their lives have become unamanagable... they they are most often inclined to find an excuse to use.
There is no excuse.

AS for the claim that Bill Wilson invented the whole thing it is quite erroneous. Most of it he stole from the Oxford Group. I have the original text and the first copyright of the book called.
"Steps Into The Blessed Life" copyright 1896 by Henry Altemus.
The precepts of the whole AA organization are clearly outlined here.
Bill Wilson just adopted these original ideas that were formulated by a very religious Christian organization and made the program so that people of all faiths or
an athiest could apply them to their lives... but the path was clearly written out before
Wilson took credit for it.
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 30
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 12:43:10 PM
Once a person is hooked on drugs however, the underlying cause of their addiction is now obviously the drug itself. All drug addicts have psychological problems that's just a given

Not necessarily so, if you mean they had psycological issues before they were addicted..... Though not having hold of oneself could lead to someone being more succeptable to trying a drug...but many drugs are physically addicting. The bodies ability to survive makes it that way. Even though a drug is bad for the body, the body gets used to it, then it needs it. Just as the body can get used to receiving the wrong foods, change to the right food and at first it doesn't taste good at first, eventually it does, meaning the body has acclimated and now wants that.

There are people who are more prone to getting addicted to things, whether gambling, drinking, drugs or etc. Then a person who has issues might be more prone to trying things for an escape, but there are drugs that can quickly make an addict in anyone... Because initially they are physically addicting.

Thats why they are called extremely dangerous...heroin, meth, coke, crack, etc, and advised all stay away from them. A smoker might mentally want another cigarette, but its the bodies addiction to the nicatine that triggered the mind.

For those who had no real psycological problems before they started getting hooked, they will in time because of the effect some drugs have on the mind.
Joined: 10/2/2010
Msg: 31
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 12:52:25 PM
^^^^^ There you go LUCKY.. Exactly. How many addicts were just infulenced by peer pressure, grew up in affluent households, had good families.
They were ON TOP of the world and bottomed out because of the DRUG.

Not every addict began using out of emotional pain. Many are drawn to it by social circles in youth and are unaware of the physical ramifications until it is to late.

There are others that become addictive because they had an injury and were prescribed a pain medication. No emotional or mental illness as a diagnosis.

There is not always a psychological or emotional reason behind drug abuse. Underlying cause of DRUG addiction is DRUGS.

More often I have heard in stories from the podium it was a youthful curiousity and then the body became ADDICTED... not because of some devastating trama that they had to escape.
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 32
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Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/9/2010 5:32:55 PM
A lot of normal working people I know, won't touch an addict with a bargepole. The minute they discover that pipe, that's it. The relationship is OVER.

However, there are a lot of people in the world, who date an alcoholic, then complain about them, but stay with them, then get rid of them, and then take up with another alcoholic. Then, when you actually start looking at the people that they are flirting with, you can see those people have "ALCOHOLIC" written all over them. Any normal person would just give them a wide berth. But not these people. What's even more amazing, is that these people ONLY flirt with alcoholics. Even when they are in a place full of good-looking, rich, nice non-alcoholics, and an ugly, poor alcoholic walks in, they practically make a beeline for the alcoholic. After a while, you realise that the problem is NOT with the alcoholics.

There are "softies" in the world, people who have co-dependent issues. The addict is by definition a dependent. Co-dependents love them. They even love to b*tch about them. But they want to be with them, because they prefer the alcoholic who will always need them, to a normal person, who doesn't need them, and can walk away any time they like.

The question is NOT: Why did you date a crack-head?

The question is: Why, when your friends could have dated him, and they rejected him, did you accept him?
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 33
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Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/11/2010 1:27:24 AM
You're over here ****ing about him when you should be ****ing at the woman if you are one, you see in the mirror. Your father was an addict, you were no stranger to addictive behaviors but you are quite familiar with enabling and avoiding looking at your own stuff.

Assuming that your age is remotely close to correct it really took you four years to figure out that this guy was a full of shit whiner that wasn't accountable for his own choices?

I fell for the victim shit when I met my ex but I at least had the excuse of relative youth and a level of naivete I shed a long time ago. I did in fact encounter another individual who was the same way and ended that very quickly. This guy was likely exactly like your father, you chose the blinders you wore.

And dissing AA, some people really work their programs and because they are dealing with more than just stopping drinking, they are not dry alcoholics as is someone that merely stops drinking and does nothing to deal with their crap. You are essentially doing the same thing he does, blaming the program instead of the person for whom the program is disingenuous.
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 34
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/12/2010 8:50:40 AM

Bottom line is the underlying cause of drug addiction is DRUGS.
That, and an addictive personality.
These two brothers I know could get high for weeks and just quit and never do it again. One of them smoked cigs when he felt like it but has never become addicted. On the other hand, you see some people try cocaine once and three weeks later see them at the homeless shelter looking for handouts.

All drug addicts have psychological problems that's just a given.
That's correct, and the problem was likely there before they ever put any dope in their bloodstream, too.

A recovering addict should date another recoverer or someone who just doesn't get high or drink even one beer with dinner. Having that stuff staring an addict in the face will make them revert. Always has and always will.
Joined: 11/13/2009
Msg: 35
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/30/2011 5:19:23 AM
After reading this I know why the guy I liked just kinda threw me to the side and immediately started whoring himself out(like he said he's not like)...

I wish I had known this sooner so I could have saved myself the emotional stress I didn't and can't deal with right now. Everyone wonders why I dislike druggies(crack, meth, pot, ect.)
Joined: 9/22/2011
Msg: 36
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Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/30/2011 7:20:28 AM
OP - As someone who struggled for many many years with bulimia (which, believe me is most definitely an addiction to food) and drugs (as a behavior generated by/related to the bulimia) I agree with a lot of your post. I remember when I was ill being that manipulator, and for a long, long time after recovery as well.

However I know that for me there came a point where I got tired of using excuses, and always being the victim and always needing someone else to pick me up and be responsible for my happiness. And I am very much not that person any more.

I think that you are judging a little harshly to imply that that mentality cannot change. it is hard work, but it is possible to put that work in and become a whole and worthwhile person again. You are absolutely right in that these issues are caused by being unable to see your self as complete and sufficient as you are.

People who have that "I'll save you" mentality should never ever get involved with addicts. What they end up doing is indirectly enabling the addict to further the thoughts, behaviours and self pity that stops them dealing with the things they find hard in life.

Whoever it was (can't remember the post number) that said they take a tough approach and have zero time for excuses and call people out when they display these unhealthy behaviours on the other hand are an absolute blessing and probably will never realise how much help they are. :-)

Just my tuppence worth - because i feel overall you have made a huge generalisation there that no one should date recovering/recovered addicts and I disagree in a big way.
Joined: 10/17/2008
Msg: 37
Non Drug Users Dating Recovering Addicts
Posted: 10/30/2011 8:41:53 PM
Please don't judge recovery to one person. Wonder where your level of healthy choice making is at. Humm
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