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 dondea
Joined: 12/10/2007
Msg: 77
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!Page 3 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
For Marnie Edgar who asked, "Flamed?" in an earlier post:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Flaming, also known as bashing, is hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a Internet forum . . . websites. It is frequently the result of the discussion of heated real-world issues such as politics, sports, religion, and philosophy, or of issues that polarise subpopulations, but can also be provoked by seemingly trivial differences.

Deliberate flaming, as opposed to flaming as a result of emotional discussions, is carried out by individuals known as flamers, who are specifically motivated to incite flaming. These users specialize in flaming and target specific aspects of a controversial conversation, and are usually more subtle than their counterparts. Their counterparts are known as trolls who are less "professional" and write obvious and blunt remarks to incite a flame war, as opposed to the more subtle, yet precise flamers.[1] . . . .

Notes :
[1] "The Heat of the Internet: Flaming (2003). 12.6.10"

 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 78
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 8:19:07 AM
Years ago...when I was a much younger man...and there was no such thing as on-line-dating (OLD)...I'd go a year or so chasing women thru the clubs, bars, and gyms...never dating a single one of them until...I'd meet someone and you could audibly hear the click...and then we'd date for a few years until one of us would figure out there was something missing....

Now in the world of OLD...one can, if they are so inclined, date pretty much as much as they wish to...but....finding that audible click will take just as long and you'll have to see just as many women as in the real world...IRL..
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 79
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 11:00:44 AM
"How does it suck? It's a tool."

Tools can suck. Ever tried to dig a ditch with shovel that has a broken handle? Ever tried to chop some wood with an axe that has a dull blade? Ever tried to drill a hole with a warped bit? Those tools suck, and so can online dating as a tool. Many online dating sites are the equivalent of an axe with a dull blade and a broken handle.

That said, I don't necessarily agree online dating is worse than real life. It undoubtedly depends on who you are, where you are and what site it is. I've had far more dates result from online dating methods than real life methods, but far more long term relationships result from real life methods than online dating methods (though neither is apparently worth a damn at the moment). Real life dating methods are just ridiculously random -- I would go so far as to say, you can't even put any effort into them. You're just haphazardly walking along in every day life, doing whatever things you like or have to do, and suddenly an opportunity drops out of the sky (= 2 of my 3 long term relationships and maybe even the third). About the only thing you can do to make "real life dating" work "better" is to "get out more." And the fact of the matter is, nearly all of the places you might be going to try to meet other people have other purposes and many of those other people are likely there for those other purposes (i.e., school, church, work, etc., even clubs some people go to just to drink and dance), and a big chunk of them are already in committed relationships anyway.

At least with online dating (well, most sites/most situations), you know the people you are contacting are ALSO free to date and actively seeking someone to date -- and you can increase your effort with this method, which, depending on who you are, where you are and what site you are on, will often times (at least more often than randomly) lead to increased results. I put no effort into POF (beyond profile and pics), I get 1 email every 3 months. I put TONS of effort into POF (email hundreds of women) and I get a couple emails a week (though not necessarily any dates).

And most importantly, in real life, you cannot possibly visit every place within a 50 mile radius, and even if you could, you couldn't do it in any sort of timely manner, likely causing you to miss out on meeting many hundreds if not thousands of good quality dating prospects. But theoretically, even in a densely populated area like mine, even on a site like POF with tens of thousands of members, THEORETICALLY, you could probably go through EVERY SINGLE PROFILE in a matter of days, and find a significant number of good quality candidates to date -- candidates who are (unless they are some forum regulars) actively seeking dates themselves.

To me, that gives online dating a massive advantage over "real life dating." But again, it depends on WHO YOU ARE, WHERE YOU ARE and WHAT SITE YOU ARE ON, because for some (like me), substantial numbers and negative personal statistics will do you in, whereas in real life, at least you are given more opportunities and much more time to convince someone on the fence in the beginning (or possibly violently opposed from the beginning) that you are worth dating. You definitely don't get that with online dating. Online dating is 99% of the time: one email and done. That's its major disadvantage for SOME, but not MOST.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 80
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 11:06:56 AM
So I ran into a woman buddy of mine last night and she told me she'd finally jumped into the dating pond and joined POF....I often cringe when I hear this because I know that my brothern are often tactless, borish, and just lack any sense of common decency...yes, my friend told me all her horror stories about men discussing sex in the first contact....I mentioned to her...that little button next to the message text-Block User

So anyway....I think that both men and women have precieved difficulty when trying to date on-line....

I also think that IRL one knows better than to ask for a date because all the verbal and non-verbal signals have been used...and we, most of us, avoid obvious rejection...whenever possible.

But, in the world of OLD (on-line-dating)...as a man...it is not unusual to send off 5 or 10 nice notes...in the hopes that someone will reply...and if one goes out of their way and creates a really good profile...takes the time to get a few good pics of themselves...then...at least "dating" can be possible..."relationships" are a different discussion....
 Hench4Life
Joined: 12/18/2010
Msg: 81
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 11:50:35 AM

I haven't done any searches lately. But I have been out in different places in the area, for a very long time by the way, and I don't see any 600 guys. When I've logged into my account here a few times, I still see some of the same faces and I know not to bother. When I did try to date on here, I had contact with quite a few but I don't know if it was 600 because I did not limit my geographic area.


OK, but... You asked where all the guys are... and there's probably at least a couple thousand in your area to choose from right on here. Yet, you're still making it sound like there's nothing to choose from. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that there isn't anybody worth taking seriously out of a couple thousand guys. So when guys are messaging women left and right and getting nowhere, and then women act like there's "no guys"... You can't see why that might be a little frustrating? Imagine you're walking through the desert, starving to death. Then up ahead, you see a house. You're invited in, and the person sits you down in the kitchen, and the kitchen is full of food and drinks. Then as you're sitting there starving, the person who lives there just keeps complaining about how there's nothing good to eat for dinner. See what I'm getting at?

Nobody is going to get a George Clooney or a Jessica Alba on here. So anybody that's waiting for that is going to be disappointed.
 mingo88
Joined: 10/12/2010
Msg: 84
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 9:23:43 PM
truthfully Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt leave me cold. right now i'm into Gerard Butler and Hugh Laurie. Hugh is soooooo hot!!!
 Fierysunlvr
Joined: 1/14/2010
Msg: 85
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 9:30:06 PM
I think it's harder too. I feel like I'm leading men on just by meeting them. The guys I meet want to move way too fast and they act hurt/rejected when I tell them I don't want to move that fast.

I've been VERY fair and I've even given unemployed guys a chance. My attitude is that we are in a recession and no one's job is completely secure, not even mine. The guy w/out a job can end up getting one and the guy w/ a great job could lose his, so I have no problem meeting an unemployed guy and going dutch treat for coffee. I view the date/meeting as a chance to get to know someone new. The problem begins when the guy starts inviting himself over to my place or asking me to come to his and we've only known each other a week. I don't care if a guy is a superstud millionare, I need more than a week before I feel comfortable having anyone in my personal space like that.

I've had guys express that they feel hurt/rejected or as if they wasted their time on me if things don't get sexual. It's that kind of attitude that makes me want to quit online dating. If the guy feels led on because I met him and didn't sleep with him, then I don't need to be meeting anyone (online) at all.

I like what another poster said about meeting in real life. In real life, you have body language, vibes, gestures and even phermones that help you determine whether or not anything is going beyond meeting. A lot of people view online dating as a way to meet/greet and get laid.
 valleyguyaz
Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 86
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/4/2011 11:04:26 PM
when i first starting using this online dating site back in the summer of 2005 the profiles
of users were more original and real back then.i tinkered with and refined my profile myself.i didn't ask for advice from so called "experts" on the subject.most user profiles today look the same and say the same things.i'm not saying that all user profiles are like this and those are the ones that catch my eye with or without photos.

there are good things about online dating sites today.for instance there are alot more people and profiles than there used to be.the sites offer more user friendly features and tools than they did several years back.

the things that frustrate me now about this site as well as others are the labeling of men and women.they are labeled because of their profile picture is taken a certain way. they are labeled because of a certain interest or passion that they have.they are labeled by the amount of restrictions that they may or may not have
listed on their profile.

there also more people who are not as serious about meeting others.they are only on this site because they are bored and instead of doing something constructive with their time they prefer to waste theirs and in turn waste the time of those on this site who really want to meet someone.this really annoys me but that is how people are nowadays.there are more people today that don't respect themselves and don't respect the feelings,opinions and thoughts of others.
 SilverLight
Joined: 11/26/2010
Msg: 87
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/5/2011 4:43:16 AM
"oh lol. one reason i quit dealing with trying to date on here is that i kept seeing the SAME male faces on my page, and some of the SAME people out at events with the oh-just-go-out-your-door-to-meet-someone meetup events. SAME people. now i can hardly go to a group event within 500 miles without seeing alot of the SAME people. a few SAME guys trying to get a barbie and just rotating women around until they do or just holding out. so, where are all these MEN supposed to be???"

SO true!!
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 88
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/5/2011 6:58:54 AM
When I hear men come on these forums and talk about women who only care about profession, height, astrological sign etc. I KNOW they are choosing these women. In my experience, ALL the men I went on dates with asked me what I did first - they brought it up. Simply because they could think of nothing else to talk about. I can think of a million things to ask besides that.

Just as there are good men on here, there are good women. The men I always liked were usually forum posters and their profiles usually reflected that and were well written. Many of them are in relationships, not surprising.

Plus, if you don't photograph well, you do have something against you. I've met some sexy men in person that when I looked at their profile on here, I would never have written them. This is why I stopped dating through here.

Men blame women on this site frequently, but the reality is is that men approach women more than men do. This is why I started contacting men, because I didn't like the men who were emailing me and instead of WHINING, I did something about it.

Like bodypro said, whining is very unattractive and negative. Nobody is interested in dating negative people. In real life, I've seen the difference when I am feeling either way. When negative, I do not attract anyone to me. Positive - people are drawn to me.

Real life dating has not gotten harder. I feel online dating is the easier way out and hence the "shopping" mentality.

I went to events, didn't like those so joined a social group. I'm much happier and would rather meet someone through that venue than here. The men I meet in real life don't whine like I read on here, they are too busy dating and having a good time. If you find yourself getting fed up with this process, that means you need to change. It's not rocket science. Work on some self-awareness.

It's very tiring reading the posts of people who whine about the other sex and their experiences on here. I've found it difficult, so of course I know that men have a hard time too. If you are on here complaining about how much choice women have, and how they are too picky and on and on - you really wonder why you are single?! Not only does it come across as negative and lazy, but also as woman-hating. As I said, you may want to do some self-analysis and take some positive action.


I think it's harder too. I feel like I'm leading men on just by meeting them. The guys I meet want to move way too fast and they act hurt/rejected when I tell them I don't want to move that fast.

I've been VERY fair and I've even given unemployed guys a chance.


This is very interesting, I've encountered this somewhat; however I'm starting to wonder if this is a man vs. woman vs. online vs. real life. Do women feel there is something missing in the online meets vs. real life connections? Do men feel it is the same? Maybe it is an individual thing?
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 90
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/5/2011 8:21:08 PM
^^^Oh wow, I've never actually met any really bad guys like that in person. Or if they were, they hid it on the first date!

The guys I've met have been pretty okay and many are now married or in LTR - I don't seem to have a problem meeting good guys - I just have some things going on with me that some men can't handle, which is fine and something I've been dealing with since I was a child.

I am pretty selective on who I used to contact on here and who I chose to go out with and if I see something that sends a red flag, I find ways to ask questions to get responses that answer my "reliability" test. The worst I've encountered is men lying about mundane stuff just so I'll continue dating them (some you can weed out by email, others you find out they lied on their profile once you meet - oh joy LOL. Which is stupid because they are hiding their interests and who they really are. To me that reeks of desperation and shows a lack of self-awareness and I'm not interested in dating men like that. I found this more rampant online than in real life.

The men I have met usually have worst stories than I do to tell about online dating.


*Some people aren't as articulate in writing as others are. They may be a hoot in real life, but online unless they're a good writer, they may come off as boring, or uninteresting.

* Choice - It is in the woman's favour on here, by a very big margin. So unless you can prove youre more interesting than the next guy, sorry but youre playing against loaded odds.


Very true and until women start contacting men more, this is how it's gonna be. Shrug. What I have always noticed is that many regular forum posters were and still are in relationships. If you want to score a hot woman with a well written profile, you'd best match her effort. After all, she can expect what she can offer.

There are a ton of forums on here about this, with some of the men who were successful on this site offering advice.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 91
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/5/2011 9:49:50 PM
^^ Of course there are serious people out there (in general,) that are serious But the thing is with POF, the site is FREE, therefore, we get what we AREN'T paying for.

I didn't join POF to find a serious relationship, so I'm not stressed out over finding the right kind of guy.
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 92
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 6:23:07 AM

But the thing is with POF, the site is FREE, therefore, we get what we AREN'T paying for


In my experience, match has just as many players as POF. You would think that since they are paying sites, that would not be the case. But that's not what I saw. I was much happier here than any other site I tried. Granted, this was 1-2 years ago. Maybe things have changed.

I had difficulty meeting people IRL. I work from home and don't particularly care for the bar scene. Internet dating was my only choice...(in my mind.)
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 94
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 7:28:31 AM
Pay sites are a load of crap as well, based on many threads here. I was in no way indicating that those sites are any better than free online dating.

Frankly, I've never given pay dating sites a try, therefore, I wouldn't exactly know how they operate. It doesn't matter to me either way, because I don't have to shell out money to date and find a relationship.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 95
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 10:57:50 AM
I've done most of the large paid sites...and have been off and on POF for 2 years...my experience is that neither one are good or bad...if one uses decent pictures and produces a good unique profile....and follows up by reaching out to the opposite sex...then dating is possible...

If you think about it there's only a few differences between on-line and IRL....

IRL...we're in contact with many people (or were back in the day)...our internal filter screened potential members of the opposite sex. We were capable of hearing all the verbal aspects of their speach....saw all the non-verbal communication they made with their bodies...we really knew with a certianty whether or not that the person would accept an invitation for a date before we even asked.

On-line...we look at as many pictures as people we filtered in IRL...but, we've no idea what they think before we contact them...unless they contact us first...still...there's no verbal signal...non verbal signal...that lets us know more...

But, its way easier to get the gumption to contact multiple members of the opposite sex then we used to IRL..it's just a different process.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 96
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 5:01:31 PM
blueceleste, where in HELL are you meeting these morons? If a man talked to me like that he would be flying out the door with his head under his arm and his nuts in a brown paper bag!
I have men getting peeved at me for offering to split or go dutch-I'm sure there are a couple that never contacted me again because they thought I was one of those "feminazis"!
Cindy O
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 97
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 6:06:14 PM

then he threaten with the guy i will rape u if u keep talking to me like that lol

He was probably talking out his ass, but were I you, I'd have reported that threat.

i had a guy contact me on yahoo im and i recognized who he was

any guy who gave me sh*t in an in-person meeting would be BLOCKED if he contacted me again. The trick is to shut these exchanges down the minute they start being disrespectful. Have the first meeting be just for coffee or soda pop, and pay for your own.
Cindy O
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 98
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 6:30:05 PM
While that may be true for some INDIVIDUALS, because of their unique experiences, in many ways for it's not. Not saying it's easier, then again, it doesn't mean it's more difficult by default.

Things that are easier for some may be more challenging for the next person. We tend to gravitate towards the things we're more used to, more adaptive to, and better at.

The OP's declaration, it's like saying woodshop is more difficult than math. It's painting with a huge brush, and online is easier for those who've learned how to make it work * (adaptive) for them. I don't think any venue, someone can just pop in, and without any effort or "checking out the features...etc." can expect it to "work".

I've done thousands of profile reviews, and given advice freely and often, privately. The only thing that doesn't surprise me (any more) is the lack of effort and expectations.

I call it the "vending machine" mentality, insert profile...get dates.

Yeah, that's how it works!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 99
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/6/2011 7:03:35 PM
I don't believe dating should be hard, on or offline - and if it is, I think it's a sign that it needs to be shelved and revisited when in a better mindset. Dating should be fun and interesting, not tedious, frustrating or "hard".

No matter where you meet people, it's best if it's natural, not taken too seriously, not a goal to get something you feel is missing, and not something you are doing like a job.

Dating only when you meet someone you want to date is usually better than dating to find a person you life. JMO.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 101
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/7/2011 3:31:32 PM
"Having said that, I still think Match is better than POF. In my experience, there were more, cheaters, jerks, players, flakes etc on POF."

There would have to be more of those things on POF based on mass numbers alone. By my estimates, POF has about 5X as many active members as Match in my area (although I would guess if you exclude non-paying members on Match who can't do anything except search, then POF would probably have 10-15 times as many members). Now are you saying there is a higher PERCENTAGE of such wackos on POF than Match? I'm not really sure why that would be. As other people have pointed out, pretty much anyone that has a Match account also has a POF account. The question is, why do the 80% of POF users that don't have a Match account go without? Many people would probably say the same thing as me during my Match "dry" periods: can't sustain those membership fees on an ongoing basis. But maybe there is a disproportionate amount of cheaters, jerks, players and flakes who are unwilling to pony up money for their shenanigans.

"*Some people aren't as articulate in writing as others are. They may be a hoot in real life, but online unless they're a good writer, they may come off as boring, or uninteresting"

I hardly see this factoring in, really. I mean, I'm undoubtedly in the top 1% of writers on POF, and indeed I have excelled in the past on other online dating sites because of my writing skills, but they've paid no dividends whatsoever on POF. Writing skills here are only important to forum regulars (who, of course, spend much of their POF time reading and writing!) for the most part. I'm referring to TRUE creative writing skills, not the ability to spell and use punctuation and grammar properly, as you can undoubtedly turn off a fairly well educated person with poor basic writing skills. But the ability to compose sonnets isn't going to get you very far, either. I find writing skills to be a highly overrated asset on an online dating site. The vast majority of rejections are physical attraction issues -- and I question how many rejections occur based solely on writing skills after mutual physical attraction has been established. I suspect in most such cases, the "telephone communication phase" simply happens a lot faster. I'm usually rather frightened when it gets to that point, because I know that I do not speak anywhere near as effectively as I write.

But that said, once again, the "gatekeeper syndrome" is far less of an issue in real life meets than online, even with my inferior speaking skills. Women who aren't initially attracted to me will ignore me immediately online (one and done!), but after getting to know me in real life, sometimes they build up some romantic interest in me (it took my last girlfriend almost a year of working with me before she decided she was attracted to me; and although I thought she was cute upon meeting her, she didn't exactly blow me away or anything, so she kinda grew on me, too).

I bet, given a year with the hundreds of women on POF who never returned my first contact emails, I could get half of them to date me. This despite the fact that I don't have anywhere near as successful a ratio in real life as 50%, but in real life, the #1 reason I have been rejected by far in recent years is: "I'm sorry, I'm already seeing/married to someone." Well, presumably none of the hundreds of women who had POF dating profiles that I emailed are "already seeing someone." At this age (and up) it becomes rather difficult to find single people in "real life" situations. My best friend is a woman with tons of female friends, and she may just be sparing my feelings, but she keeps telling me she can't set me up because none of those friends are single.
 FunkTheMillenium
Joined: 7/11/2010
Msg: 102
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/7/2011 3:56:26 PM
^^^^that is exactly part of my problem.

its finding or telling the single one's apart from the taken. the first thing i always look for is a guy hanging around when i notice a woman of interest. any woman that is a "decent catch" isn't going to be single long, in any age group really.

unfortunately there is no golden bullet to say where the better places to go are where these decent fully SINGLE women are.
u just have to strike it lucky wherever they may be.
 Captain_Random
Joined: 8/19/2010
Msg: 103
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Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/8/2011 1:11:52 PM
I've been using POF for about 6 months and the impression I get, based on what I've read on the forums and my own experience, is that guys have to date down. I'm not saying it's always that way, and I would be interested to get other people's thoughts on that, but in general, that's how it seems. I'm guessing it has to do with the wonky male to female ratio on here. I know that another dating site did a study and found that the men who have the highest rate of success getting replies are attractive guys who email average looking women. That was even higher than the success rate for average looking guys who email unattractive women. One would assume that attractive looking women who email average looking guys would achieve a phenomenal reply ratio, but I'd discount that on account of the fact that it's a laughable scenario.

Thing is, men don't want to date down. At least, not anymore than women do. Sure, men are willing to date down in order to score sex, but for a long term relationship or a marriage? Nah. And this creates a problem.

What's the solution? Increase the number of female fish in this sea. How? A good first step is advertising on TV, which I commend POF for doing. Although, I'd recommend airing the commercials on more women-oriented channels instead of ESPN. I'm not saying women don't watch ESPN. But you have to look at the overall group demographics.
 Hench4Life
Joined: 12/18/2010
Msg: 104
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/8/2011 2:23:27 PM
I've been using POF for about 6 months and the impression I get, based on what I've read on the forums and my own experience, is that guys have to date down.


I would say that's the biggest problem... In general, men would have to date down, and women want to use the one-sided ratio and date way up. I'm not trying to be mean... I truly respect the efforts of the legitimate people looking for somebody special. And I feel for all the people that have failed. Most of us have people who are better looking than us, thinner than us, richer than us, whatever... But like it or not, we still have to deal with our place in society. But I've found that for me, the offers are pretty much 5-10 years older and over weight. Sorry, but that's the reality of it. Now of course, some women would come back and say... 'Well, what's wrong with that? You should see a woman's inner beauty'. Well, in a perfect world, that's true, but we know in reality, it's not. And if relatively attractive women can delete equally attractive guys day after day... I certainly think that I should be able to say... thanks, but no thanks... to somebody ten years older than me and heavier than me. That's only fair. And it's not like I'm living in some delusion where I think I'm all bad ass... I'm not just shooting for super models or something. Women on here who are physically equal to women I've been with before in life, I get absolutely nothing from on here. What guys they ARE going for, I don't know for sure... But I have a suspicion.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 105
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History
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/8/2011 3:18:09 PM
But what is "dating down"? Dating someone you're not attracted to? What good could that possibly lead to? As someone who dated quite a few women he wasn't attracted to early on, I can tell you that it will most often lead to no good whatsoever.

Quite often I will see posts on here from women telling us to to quit emailing "Barbies" that are a million miles out of our league and we'll succeed on POF, but I'm sure a lot of guys adopted my strategy of emailing just about every profile we come across that we find remotely attractive (and we're qualified to email according to the profile) while not emailing those we aren't attracted to. Sure, a few Barbies might end up in the mix, but if you're also emailing all of the "average" women and still not getting responses, then what are you supposed to do? The only thing left to do is to email women you AREN'T attracted to -- and let me clarify that by saying, women you can't imagine you would EVER find attractive. Like my previous example with my most recent ex: not a supermodel, didn't blow me away when meeting her, but I always knew she had potential to grow on me (though I also knew that would be a very bad thing so I tried not to allow that to happen...). I mean, I email plenty of women like her that don't "blow me away" initially and "have potential."

But if the women who first contact email me are any indication, then apparently even THAT is not "dating down." The only way left for me to "date down" on POF at this point is to date what repulses me and has NO potential.

Now maybe you aren't just referring to attractiveness, but certainly I have emailed women without college degrees, who have non-professional jobs, who aren't quite as physically fit as I am, who are weak writers (well, that's 90% of them, regardless of their level of phsysical attraction). There's pretty much nothing left except, well, the "bottom-feeders."

EXCEPTION: Attractive (to me) women with children. I don't seek them out, I won't first contact them, despite the fact that I do realize that they sorta are "dating down" because they aren't as heavily sought-after as women who are childless. Kids aren't a deal-breaker, but me dating a woman with kids has just been proven multiple times to be a bad idea. Before my most recent ex, I dated a VERY attractive woman with kids for about a year, and I don't feel as if it was worth it. It's quite possible that if I targeted women on POF with kids that I found attractive, I might do a little better than 0 meetings in 4 years, but that situation wouldn't be fair to the kids, if nothing else. Admittedly, this is becoming a bigger and bigger issue, since the majority of women my age have children now and the childless ones my age are becoming more and more a valuable commodity to men who don't want to date women with children (which is a lot of them).

"Women on here who are physically equal to women I've been with before in life, I get absolutely nothing from on here."

I already said you get a better chance to grow on a woman in real life than you do online, but what really gets me about POF in particular is that I've met very attractive (to me) women on other sites, sometimes with very little effort, yet on this site, despite absurd levels of effort, I can't get even SOMEWHAT attractive women to write me back (at least not with romantic interest). I don't think the ratio (at least in this geographic area) is absurdly out-of-line (somewhere around 1.5 to 1), and many of that 1.5 are obvious scumbugs from first contact, so I'd like to think "good guys" to women ratio is much closer to 1:1. Yet, still, nothing.

I'm sure the massive amount of numbers, not the ratio, are killing us, man. Some people like to dismiss the "numbers game" claim, but we both live in major metros with tens of thousands of POF members. In a population of, say, 100 men and 50 women, then the most first contact emails ANY woman would ever get in a lifetime is 100 (ignoring those entering and leaving the market). So let's say all 100 guys emailed her within a year -- that's 2 a week. You can stand out in that crowd. But in a market with 30,000 guys (which might be on the low side for us) and 15,000 women, same said most popular woman could get 30,000 first contact emails... or 600 a week, despite being a market with the same ratio as the 150 person market (and the "average" woman would also get 300X as many emails a week in a 45k market vs. a 150 person market). Obviously almost no woman gets 600 a week, but the point is, the noise is deafening in the largest markets. Even many top tier guys probably get drowned out by all but the most unattractive women. It wouldn't really matter if there were 30,000 guys and 60,000 women, it would still be bad (since men send the vast majority of first contact emails).

Being in a large market has the advantage of giving you a lot more options on a dating website than a smaller one would, but the disadvantage is that you also have MUCH more competition, too. (You kind of wonder if women send less first contact emails in large markets than in smaller ones, because they are getting so much mail to deal with that they don't have a lot of time to do browsing themselves.)
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 107
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/8/2011 4:02:06 PM

I've been using POF for about 6 months and the impression I get, based on what I've read on the forums and my own experience, is that guys have to date down. I'm not saying it's always that way, and I would be interested to get other people's thoughts on that, but in general, that's how it seems. I'm guessing it has to do with the wonky male to female ratio on here. I know that another dating site did a study and found that the men who have the highest rate of success getting replies are attractive guys who email average looking women. That was even higher than the success rate for average looking guys who email unattractive women. One would assume that attractive looking women who email average looking guys would achieve a phenomenal reply ratio, but I'd discount that on account of the fact that it's a laughable scenario.

There's that mentality again. I'm quite certain that men don't "have" to do anything in the dating scene - nor do women. If you don't like your options, then don't date. Do the women a favor that you feel you're considering based on your bleak pool.

Thing is, men don't want to date down. At least, not anymore than women do. Sure, men are willing to date down in order to score sex, but for a long term relationship or a marriage? Nah. And this creates a problem.

The only problem I see is that you feel you have to date anyone you're not interested in. Where does that come from? If you want a certain thing and it's not materializing, then don't participate unless/until it does. YES, you might be single more often with this strategy, but this is a small price to pay for what you want.

What's the solution? Increase the number of female fish in this sea. How? A good first step is advertising on TV, which I commend POF for doing. Although, I'd recommend airing the commercials on more women-oriented channels instead of ESPN. I'm not saying women don't watch ESPN. But you have to look at the overall group demographics.

The solution is realizing that this is a supplement to real life meeting people, not the main place to look. The solution is honing your social skills so that you meet women everywhere, not just here - even if they may be taken or not interested. The more outgoing and social you are in the course of the day you already live the less this place in particular will really bother you that much.
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