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 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 132
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!Page 5 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

But it's my over-arching impression that most men don't want to date single mothers because they fear having to help support her children if the relationship gets serious.

I can't speak for most men, but that was something I never worried about. I simply would not support someone unless I chose to do so and even then, my choice is always reversible. My issue with dating single mothers was that they simply didn't have time to date and many of them were unwilling to be upfront with their kids about dating. The problem with the former is obvious. The problem with the second is that I think it's bad parenting. (Hey, if I'm going to date a single mom, I'm going to make a judgment about her parenting as I see it, since I'm going to be in a relationship with her and her kids if I get into a relationship with her. She is not going to appreciate my interferrence in raising her kids, so there's no reason to get involved with a single mom if she and I already have some basic differences about how to raise the kids I'd eventually have some relationship with.)
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 133
view profile
History
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 8:32:07 AM
That "frightening" and "dangerous" experience statement I made was rhetorical and slightly sarcastic. I meant, that's the attitude of women toward childless older men. I'm not so dense as to not know the ACTUAL dangerous stuff that could happen to women while using the internet to date. My real experience, though, suggests maybe men should have some fear, too, considering the MAJORITY of the women I have met from the internet have been mentally unstable to say the least. However, I was not greatly bothered by the mental instability of most of the hot ones. Though maybe I should be -- don't want to end up like Steve McNair.

I honestly don't have time to be doing these things you guys are suggesting to meet people. In fact, there's a pretty good argument that I don't have time to date! Indeed, several women that initially expressed interest in me on POF and some other sites have said exactly that to me after I rattled off my schedule to them. I met a VERY attractive woman in a real life situation toward the beginning of summer who was apparently attracted to me enough to call and text all the time, trying to set up a date, but I started working on my new film right around that time and could not make our schedules work and after a few months, she gave up. That really sucked. But what are you going to do? My 80-120 hour work week is probably not going to change until I retire or die (or a grand deus ex machina descends upon me and makes me independently wealthy). And I also dated 3 women for a total of almost 5 years, working the same schedule, without that much difficulty (it helped, of course, that I worked with one of those 3 and the other 2 had almost the same schedule I did). So I feel like I should still attempt to date, but I do understand I'm going to get rejected over my schedule every now and then. But my original point with bringing this up is that I normally can't even fit a doctor's appointment or an oil change into my schedule, much less volunteering and meetups. If I actually thought something would come of POF events or whatever, I might go out of my way to fit them in, but the emails I receive on them and what's posted in the forums about them suggest my concerns about me are valid.

"But it's my over-arching impression that most men don't want to date single mothers because they fear having to help support her children if the relationship gets serious."

I have a laundry list of reasons why I won't date women with children anymore, but that's not one of them -- oddly, I never even thought about that before you posted it. None of the women with children I dated ever pushed me in that direction (though on the very last date I had with a woman who had children, I paid for her kid's meal, too; heck, considering what all the mom ordered, I would have preferred just to have paid for the kid's meals! Most expensive dinner I have ever bought...). What lawnchair said is one of the main ones (and I have run into that problem a couple of times), but more than that: apparently, I just don't like kids. And it's probably best for society if people who don't like kids don't date people who have kids.

Stray Cat: What I just said is pretty much a response to you as well, but I've definitely learned that the kids being older (as in, out of the house) doesn't change the situation, because then they're always trying to sabotage things... just like parents and siblings do when you're dating younger women. I'm just sick of dealing with all that. About the only exceptions I've even come across are the ones with no family (only children, no children of their own, parents dead or absent). I feel as if I've accomplished enough in my life and been on the good side of things long enough that I still shouldn't have to be defending myself against prejudiced and suspicious relatives while the "right-looking" no-count bum gets a free pass. Just sick of it, man.

As for "Women with children are often more realistic then women without etc.": What I don't get, to some extent, is why in the past, on other sites, I had no problem finding "realistic" CHILDLESS women who were interested in giving me a chance, but currently on POF, apparently the only "realistic" women are those with children. I am most puzzled by this. Although, I have long said, the worst years for the bottom 1% of men like myself are probably the late 20s and 30s, because young women are "experimental" and older women are "realistic," while late 20s and 30s are done being experimental but not yet realistic and on the hunt for that perfect man to breed with before that clock stops ticking... unless they've already done that and realized, well, screw that fairy tale. But see, that's not an answer that helps me. All that does is screw me. All that leaves me with is old women I'm not attracted to (and probably aren't attracted to me, cougars aside), young women who are no longer attracted to me, mothers my age I shouldn't be dating... and that bottom 1% of females that repulse me.

"Lowering one's standards isn't sucess, it's settling. It makes you men sound like you are so desperate that you'll date women you think are 2nd rate just to be with someone."

Ironically, many women here tell men all the time to lower their standards... to something realistic. If I lowered my standards to include women with children, apparently I'd be in business. But who here thinks that's a good idea? Women are obviously better at being alone when there's nobody out there that's right for them, but oddly they tend to be alone a lot less. Not only have I been dateless for 4 consecutive years, but I've been dateless for more than 10 of the last 15 (and in pretty weak and highly questionable "relationships" the other times). Older women who've had it with men are something else, but I couldn't find a woman my age with any such history. Just doesn't happen. Heck, most of my female friends are rarely single for more than a few weeks at a time. Are MY standards too high? Are theirs too low? Are they just continuously settling and desperate?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 134
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 8:41:25 AM
I can't speak for most men, but that was something I never worried about. I simply would not support someone unless I chose to do so and even then, my choice is always reversible. My issue with dating single mothers was that they simply didn't have time to date and many of them were unwilling to be upfront with their kids about dating. The problem with the former is obvious. The problem with the second is that I think it's bad parenting.

Abelain, those too are factors in dating single custodial parents. We see threads complaining about women who have busy schedules,this even spreads to mature women whose children are grown and gone.
So yes, probably single mothers do realize that they have a significant "ding" in their dateability.
But I cannot help but make the observation that I hope some of these recently-contacted single mothers are reading this thread and developing an awareness that they are regarded as "dating down"-either because the guy thinks her status can be used as leverage to obtain sex quickly, or because he's just plain desperate to date someone,even someone that he regards as a lesser quality of woman because she is a mother with a father who has fled the scene.
Sweet.
Cindy O
edit because I HAVE to speak to this...

So I feel like I should still attempt to date,

SHOULD??? Why? Is there some legislation in the pipeline that will cause unpartnered people to be kicked off the planet?
Dating and relationships are things one should do because they enjoy it and they want to do it. When it becomes a "should", there's a problem. I can understand a young man who would like to find a life-partner and be a father, but this dating to "lowered standards"? Just to be dating? Or are you really thinking to try and have a relationship with a woman that you see as lower quality? What do you suppose is going to happen when that " I stooped to dating a woman that is less than I deserve" attitude starts coming through your interactions with her?
Cindy O
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 135
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:07:20 AM

So yes, probably single mothers do realize that they have a significant "ding" in their dateability.

I don't think being a single parent is a ``ding.'' The ding occurs when a single parent wants to do the impossible, by compartmentalizing his/her life into seperate threads that add up to more than 24 gours in a day. That, is a choice made by the single parent.

either because the guy thinks her status can be used as leverage to obtain sex quickly,

That is no different than every other type of leverage people will try to exploit if you allow it. The obvious answer is to not allow it. If you don't allow someone to do that, it really doesn't matter how many people try nor should it be something to worry about. Just say no and move on.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 136
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:15:17 AM

I don't think being a single parent is a ``ding.''

No, you may not, and I'm sure there are other men who also do not think that way. But there are enough of them that DO, and try to use that attitude trend as leverage, that it needs to be commented on.

That is no different than every other type of leverage people will try to exploit if you allow it.

I realize that, with reference to single mothers, all I am doing is commenting on what I observe and hear. As for other factors that other people might try to use as "leverage", I'm well aware of them and don't allow anyone to use them on me.
Cindy O
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 137
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:23:43 AM
Ironically, many women here tell men all the time to lower their standards... to something realistic.


I don't think that men should do that. I don't tell anyone to lower their standards. Do what works for you, just don't complain when it doesn't work. Work at changing it so it works for you.


honestly don't have time to be doing these things you guys are suggesting to meet people.


Then you have to deal with what you get. Simple.


So I feel like I should still attempt to date,

SHOULD??? Why? Is there some legislation in the pipeline that will cause unpartnered people to be kicked off the planet?


I keep saying maybe the problem is their desperation to be with someone is coming off like a bad stink. They didn't get it 5 years ago, they ain't getting it now either.

You know I looked at most of the profiles from the men who are posting here and it ain't hard to see who most women would want to date (looks totally aside). Even though you guys say you are relaxed about this, your profile and forum postings prove otherwise.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 138
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:57:50 AM

Lowering one's standards isn't sucess, it's settling. It makes you men sound like you are so desperate that you'll date women you think are 2nd rate just to be with someone.
Cindy O

+1. If your options aren't to your liking, then don't participate. Don't do people you think are beneath you any favors. Please.

SHOULD??? Why? Is there some legislation in the pipeline that will cause unpartnered people to be kicked off the planet?

Exactly. What's the deal where people think they HAVE to do whatever it takes to land someone? Were there notes given to these people the rest of us never got? No one "should" "have" to do anything when it comes to dating unless they want to. And if they want to, then they choose the path they take.
 fastdogphotog
Joined: 5/27/2008
Msg: 139
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History
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 10:42:20 AM
^^^^^^^ The above post makes me want a "like" button here on POF!

Online dating more difficult than real life!!! Has anyone else found this to be true?


I think that comparing POF to real life is like comparing apples and oranges - there are far too many idiosyncratic differences between online dating and real life dating to make any valid or meaningful comparison. However, that being said, I do think that many people have an easier time dating in real life than online. And, based on my own experiences, I would certainly agree with other posters that the way things seem to work on POF bears little, if any, rational or logical relationship to the way things seem to work in real life, or even on other dating sites.

All one has to do is read the myriad forum threads and posts, from men and women alike, bemoaning a lack of success and the type of people on POF, and it should be apparent that for many, if not most, POF does not work all that well when it comes to finding dates, or, dare I say it, a relationship. While the challenges and difficulties are usually different for men and women, neither sex seems to enjoy a great deal of success here. So, in that sense, one could easily, and quite justifiably say that, in general, it is "more difficult" than real life.

Now, I happen to find it quite interesting and entertaining to speculate why this is so, and to discuss various theories and relevant observations (e.g., Hawkings interesting "experiment"). However, when it comes to posts that do nothing other than complain about the situation, I have to join other posters who have asked "so what"? To me, online dating is like so many other optional pursuits in life. If it's not working, and / or you don't like the results, either do something about it or stop doing it. Just complaining isn't going to change anything, and if it is so bothersome, why do that to yourself?

On a related note, I have to second happybunny's suggestion for people who aren't happy with their result online to get involved in social groups or clubs. I have known a number of people that have found dates and / or relationships that way, most of whom (men and women alike) never had much, if any, luck online. In fact, that's how I met the last two women I dated; both of whom told me they would not have contacted me or responded online, because I didn't meet the criteria they were using to screen potential dates.
 Hench4Life
Joined: 12/18/2010
Msg: 141
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 11:49:24 AM

need to get their ego in check


After reading two of your posts now LS... For some reason it was that little part that I found most ironic for some reason.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 142
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 1:11:21 PM
A lot of us guys just like to do our own thing and we don't socialize as much for whatever reason.


I understand YOUR reason, but what's stopping others?

You are making excuses for them.

Women more than ever are choosing to be single and just live their lives, while far too many men are not and continue on this hell bent journey to be with someone and just reek of desperation. Maybe if men started joining in social groups and such, you might discover something new. Besides doing that is kinda adventurous and women like that. But don't join simply thinking you are going to get a girlfriend, join because you need a change and you will meet new people. Nothing is guaranteed and in reality nothing is owed to you by anyone.

As for knowing people to be social? Nope. Tons of folks join meetup all by themselves and then find a whole new group of friends.

I see lots of men bond as friends for life. Sure, the relationships might be different than women's, but many still have childhood friends and make new ones; interestingly enough though I've seen more men who are already with women have those male friends.

You simply are too afraid of change.
 FunkTheMillenium
Joined: 7/11/2010
Msg: 143
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 1:51:27 PM
^^^ WTF???

some guys already have guy friends. why would they join groups to want more? yeah and if so many women were all choosing now to be single then where does that leave men?

what are men suppose to date other desperate men? LMAO.... yeah im sure they would all be for that.

if a guy wants someone for companionship or whatever then what in the hell is wrong with that. how is that desperate?

FFS some guys really do get the raw deal. all this so called desperate behaviour we're seeing is exactly from what may be happening. the women don't want anyone, and the guy's do.

if this scenerio keeps up then of course we can expect to see a whole group of angry men, its not going to change. imagine if the tables were reversed.

the only way guys would stop going to great lengths to get a girlfriend is to decrease their hormone's to nil. u do that then u might see a solution to the problem.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 144
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 1:54:32 PM

I understand YOUR reason, but what's stopping others?

You are making excuses for them.

Women more than ever are choosing to be single and just live their lives, while far too many men are not and continue on this hell bent journey to be with someone and just reek of desperation. Maybe if men started joining in social groups and such, you might discover something new. Besides doing that is kinda adventurous and women like that. But don't join simply thinking you are going to get a girlfriend, join because you need a change and you will meet new people. Nothing is guaranteed and in reality nothing is owed to you by anyone.

As for knowing people to be social? Nope. Tons of folks join meetup all by themselves and then find a whole new group of friends.

I see lots of men bond as friends for life. Sure, the relationships might be different than women's, but many still have childhood friends and make new ones; interestingly enough though I've seen more men who are already with women have those male friends.

You simply are too afraid of change.

I agree with most of this.

A lot of the dating books that I have read usually indicate that meeting people through friends or groups is the best method. This of course requires an active social life and at least a significant number of acquaintences so you can get invited to parties,etc. As we get older though and are out of school focusing on careers it gets harder for the average man to keep a wide social network on hand, unless he's got a sense of charm about him.

This is BS - if you don't actively stay social, it will naturally die down. All a person needs to do to stay social is to engage people, find them interesting and want to learn about them independent of having a reason for it.

A lot of us guys just like to do our own thing and we don't socialize as much for whatever reason.

Then, change this.

This is where women have an advantage in that they maintain more numerous social relationships throughout their lives. They bond over their emotions,etc. That's probably another reason why a lot of the women can afford to be more selective on internet dating sites (they have more options in general irregardless of the venue).

It has nothing to do with gender or emotions. People who like to be around people tend to know more people and aquire more friendships over the long haul. If you aren't doing that (which is a choice), then obviously things will be different.

Dating is a social sport, and that's not going to change any time soon. If you're not social - then it's not going to work real well. Change that or accept it...but you're not a victim of something you can't control, here.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 145
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 2:12:20 PM
The point is thewatcher is that these men are on here complaining that they are not getting results, we are offering solutions, yet they continue to come up with excuses.

There is nothing wrong with companionship, it's when it affects your life so much that you become negative.

I want to be with a man and I have no problems attracting men; but I choose to be single because I have some debt and a chronic illness that most men are not yet mature enough to understand.

Men will continue to be angry if they continue to be so focused on this. I have always felt there is some resentment (not the right word, but I can't think of one) over all the changes and opportunities women have had over the last few decades. It's not resentment, but I can't put my finger on the right word right now. They had no control or were not directly involved?

So make your own changes and control your own dating life instead of relying on women to do it for you.


this is why i couldnt stand hanging out with men always whining about something and whining about why they dont have a social life while everybody else does. those are the ones i ended up dropping all the time they complained about how their friends were active yet they didnt wanna be that way either omg such negative ppl.


hahaha too true. But according to the men on here, men don't join social groups. Maybe they need to come and talk to the guys I know. I guess they are gay or something though right? Since they joined a group to make friends? Whatever, I'm sure you can argue with them while they tell you how many women they have met because of the group.
 FunkTheMillenium
Joined: 7/11/2010
Msg: 147
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 3:06:37 PM
happybunny,

u even said urself that those men that joined these groups were taken before they joined the groups so why would they join other than to make more platonic friends and socialize without other intent?

its the same theory almost as guys who are single who "befriend" females. they have intent mostly to get into her pants.

if those guys u were talking about weren't already taken when they joined these groups then maybe they might have wanted more out of the group or just not joined all together. anyway thats not that point.

the point is they were taken to begin with, how has that got anything to do with some single guy looking for a woman again?

of course its good to socialize but most men dont get women throwing themselves at them like alot of women get from guys so we have to appear "creepy" or desperate" sometimes to pursue women. its just how it is. i won't approach myself in public alot of the time because of fear of what how ill come across. its just natural if ur not overly extroverted. especially in my age group a woman will think ur creepy just for looking at her for more than a second or two so u can only imagine what its like for some guys.

but a guy has to do the approaching and putting himself out there i realize that, not mattering how it looks. if u get rejcted u get rejected, women don't care for u, so u gotta move on and keep doing it. its life.
 Hench4Life
Joined: 12/18/2010
Msg: 148
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 3:14:22 PM

hahaha too true. But according to the men on here, men don't join social groups.


According to the men on here? LOL Didn't like, one guy just say that? How does that become "the men on here"?

I have friends. I do other things. I have plenty of interests. And yes, I even go on dates. Just went out with a woman last week and had a good time... And no, she wasn't from here. But as far as I can tell... A guy comes on here and it's like... God forbid you dare say anything that can even be remotely categorized as a complaint. Next thing you know, you've got 5 people talking to you like you 10 years old and some kind of socially inept cripple.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 149
view profile
History
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 3:57:58 PM
"But I cannot help but make the observation that I hope some of these recently-contacted single mothers are reading this thread and developing an awareness that they are regarded as 'dating down'..."

First of all, you have forum goggles -- 99% of the site's users never end up here (especially the newer ones that don't even know the forums exist, thanks to last year's change!). I've had several female friends on this site who looked at me like I was crazy when I talked to them about the forums.

But regardless, I certainly don't consider single mothers to be "dating down." I just consider it to be a really bad idea, for ME, and I doubt that you disagree. I don't even think you can place parenthood itself on the table for "dating down." Having children (in the macro sense, Miss WIP) is the single most important aspect of humanity and the vast majority of people eventually do it, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that anyone considers it to be a negative act. Now dating a woman with FIFTEEN children... that might be "dating down," because, quite frankly, there's something going on in the mind of a woman that would have that many children that I don't think many of us would consider "normal." Ultimately, either you're a kid person or you're not (at this particular point in your life). That fundamentally affects who you will date and might very well be a deal-breaker, but it's not among the many "dating down" categories. My best friend has 2 kids and if she wasn't married, me dating her would most certainly be "dating up," because she's superior to me on the dating scale in pretty much every way. But that still doesn't mean I would date her. Well, that would be a much different situation than some random POF woman, of course, since her kids and I already know each other quite well (they've known me since birth). I'm just saying, dating up or down has nothing to do with kids. And not dating a woman because she has kids is not a "dating down" decision.

Don't confuse all that with the fact that I've discovered women with children are far more likely to respond to me than women without, all other things being equal. I'm bothered by that because it doesn't make much sense. And is HIGHLY unhelpful information. Not because I think women with children are a bad thing. I'm obviously not using single motherhood as "leverage" considering I refuse to date them. You must be referring to someone else.

And I think you women are over-interpreting "should." Obviously, nobody is forcing me to date. I WANT to date. I miss what I had with my ex (uh, despite the fact that that was NOT a healthy relationship overall -- I'm talking about the GOOD parts of that relationship). I like going on dates. I like the feeling of being with being with a woman who thinks greatly of me in a romantic (not platonic) way. I like the physical intimacy. I feel sad being just about the only person in my REAL social group that's always dateless and frequently being a third or fifth or seventh wheel (which never happened when I was with my ex, obviously). My personal belief is that if you've gotten to the point in your life where you don't crave romantic companionship when you don't have it, then YOUR life is not only sad, but apparently over. I got to that point a couple of times due to frustration over failure. Those were not good times. I don't know about you ladies, but I don't want to go there again!

As for the lower standards part, if I had only dated women that it was a good idea for me to be dating, I would be in my 30s and still searching for my first date. Because I knew it was a bad idea from the beginning to date almost every single woman I've gone out with (except maybe B -- that took about 3 dates to figure that one out; she seemed like high grade marriage material before and during date 1). But I had a lot of good times with SOME of those bad ideas... before, you know, the "bad idea" part kicked in and turned them into nightmares. And see, dating women with children: that's one of those BAD IDEAS from the beginning. Oh, it will kick in. Of course, I am willing to continuing entertain other bad ideas, but the other bad ideas only affect me and the woman, not me, the woman and some innocent children.

Agreeing with H4L: I do have friends. In fact, my 3 closest friends are all attractive females. They don't really seem like the type that would hang out with a whiny, complaining, constantly depressed guy for 8-15 years, but maybe they're just glutton for punishments. Understand, I am a professional creative writer. HawkingJr is essentially one of my characters. Indeed, I've run into plenty of problems in the past when meeting women from online who were puzzled by the guy they met, because I write completely differently from the way I speak and act in real life. It's why I try to speed things up to meeting now, because my writing is borderline misleading if you're trying to base my persona on it. I think in emails to potential dates, I seem better than I actually am (without a single lie) and in the forums, I seem worse than I actually am (again, without a single lie). Reality is probably somewhere in between. Some character said it best in "The Hours": when you're a writer, you have a million stories going on in your head all the time and you just start becoming entertwined with your characters. (Not suggesting I'm outright schizophrenic like Virginia Woolf, of course!)

On POF: I think what makes it far more frustrating than any other site for most guys is the amount of time you have to invest in the thing for such low return. I've put far less effort into other sites with much greater returns. (In the past... which is why I just don't stick with them.) That is just, as I said before, the bloody numbers thing. Big market + free site = much greater competition = necessity for much greater effort to accomplish less. So what's the point in complaining? Venting, but also, POF actually does occasionally change things in response to complaints and suggestions. Usually for the worse as far as I am concerned, but once in a blue moon for the better.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 150
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 5:07:59 PM
DFT look into someone who does hypnosis for that.

Normally I would give the usual "get out there and mix it up" advice.
But at 40, if you haven't got over this by now.... seek out professional help.
and there is nothing wrong with that.(or you.)

for instance, if you had ulcers, you'd find a doctor for that.
Same deal with anxiety disorders.

I know someone with a similar disorder and low self esteem.
He did a few hypno sessions and now he is c0cky as all get out and married.

good luck.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 151
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 6:10:12 PM
u even said urself that those men that joined these groups were taken before they joined the groups so why would they join other than to make more platonic friends and socialize without other intent?


I didn't mean to as all of the men are single (except for the ones who joined with their SO) and then they have met someone from the group. Please provide the quote where I specifically said the men were taken?

Actually DT, you don't come across as complaining that much, plus the fact that you picked up those books shows that you actually would do okay with change. Most people are not change visionaries, but rather majority adopters (see "helping you move your cheese" for further details). But I agree with stray that you should look into it.

As a woman who does approach men, I can understand how difficult it is and hence why I am actually interested in seeing men step back from approaching and seeing what happens.


According to the men on here? LOL Didn't like, one guy just say that? How does that become "the men on here"?


Hence, I've been on the forums for more than 5 years - I've seen plenty of these types of posts. Sorry I didn't clarify, but I wasn't just referring to a couple of guys in this particular thread. WIP and I have seen this over and over and over.


It's why I try to speed things up to meeting now, because my writing is borderline misleading if you're trying to base my persona on it. I think in emails to potential dates, I seem better than I actually am (without a single lie) and in the forums, I seem worse than I actually am


Guess it depends on the type of woman. I, for one really like the male forums posters. Even when I don't agree with them, I like the fact that they have opinions and they have often changed my POV about things. I think you come across as pretty intelligent (as several of the men on here do) and that is a definite plus in my book. Of course, since I've been on here a while, I've gotten to know some of them. If a newbie were to suddenly come on and read our posts - they'd run LOL! I totally agree with speeding the meeting up, especially if the guy is a good writer, then I can get all the answer I need in one or two emails.
 fastdogphotog
Joined: 5/27/2008
Msg: 152
view profile
History
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 6:54:10 PM
A lot of the dating books that I have read usually indicate that meeting people through friends or groups is the best method. This of course requires an active social life and at least a significant number of acquaintences so you can get invited to parties,etc. As we get older though and are out of school focusing on careers it gets harder for the average man to keep a wide social network on hand, unless he's got a sense of charm about him. A lot of us guys just like to do our own thing and we don't socialize as much for whatever reason. This is where women have an advantage in that they maintain more numerous social relationships throughout their lives. They bond over their emotions,etc. That's probably another reason why a lot of the women can afford to be more selective on internet dating sites (they have more options in general irregardless of the venue).


DTFan, I completely agree with what you wrote. But that doesn't mean that it can't be done, or that it's not enjoyable and worth it. In fact, my life is proof of that. Several years ago, my social network was limited to a small circle of people who were also friends with my ex. Like many guys (and women too, I would expect), I made the mistake of losing contact with most of my acquaintances and casual friends over the years, in favor of my relationship with my ex. As a result, when things ended between us, the only social network I was left with was one that I could not rely on for risk of putting those people in the middle, between me and my ex.

So what did I do? I joined Meetup, Meetin, and a couple of other, smaller, niche groups. It took a few months, and considering I can sometimes be a bit shy, it wasn't easy. But, I wound up developing a fairly robust social network, including many people with whom I remain friends today. And you know what? I had a ton of fun in the process. I got so hooked, that today I run a few groups and help out in a couple more.

Now, from what you wrote, I would expect it would be a bit harder for you. But that being said, I have met a few people with similar issues, so I doubt you would be alone. And I think Stray Cat's suggestion that you seek out professional help is a good one - whether it be hypnosis or some form of behavioral therapy.


It has nothing to do with gender or emotions. People who like to be around people tend to know more people and aquire more friendships over the long haul. If you aren't doing that (which is a choice), then obviously things will be different.


WIP, I have to disagree with you that it has nothing to with gender. There have been multiple studies showing that men and women tend to socialize differently, with women forming larger, more complex and more robust social networks, on average, compared to men. With this in mind, women, in general, have a certain "advantage" if you will, when it comes to creating, expanding or maintaining social networks. However, that being said, I do agree with you that notwithstanding such "advantage", both men and women alike can do it, if they choose to. Success is not determined by gender; men just have to work a little harder at it, and it doesn't come as natural to them.
 FunkTheMillenium
Joined: 7/11/2010
Msg: 153
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 7:13:46 PM
^^^^ i completely agree with that post myself.

the best way is to meet through friends or through acquaintances of some nature. its always been the best method since probably human's came to exist. it does require an active social life and always making urself known in the group's,

i know i would take advantage of these options if i had them. i think alot of guys on these sites do have these options but for some reason alot don't take full advantage of that. i know some might be stacked for time with their professional lives etc, but it is surely a better way to meet someone than wasting ur time away online looking for someone.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 154
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/10/2011 8:03:08 PM

So what did I do? I joined Meetup, Meetin, and a couple of other, smaller, niche groups. It took a few months, and considering I can sometimes be a bit shy, it wasn't easy. But, I wound up developing a fairly robust social network, including many people with whom I remain friends today. And you know what? I had a ton of fun in the process. I got so hooked, that today I run a few groups and help out in a couple more.


Thanks. Maybe now they'll believe it coming from a man instead of a woman.
 Captain_Random
Joined: 8/19/2010
Msg: 155
view profile
History
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/11/2011 1:44:40 AM
As someone above mentioned, if a woman is attractive, she's going to have no problem getting dates, even if she has kids. If having kids was that big of a deal, then ugly people who didn't have kids would be rockstars of the dating world, on account of being childless. And that simply isn't true.

According to Match, "single parents go on more dates than singles without kids, and more of these single parents are currently dating someone, too."

So yeah, us childless people just got owned.

And now, a bonus quote.

"More men than women would marry a partner they weren’t sexually attracted to,' says renowned biological anthropologist Dr. Helen Fisher. 'Shared interests and family are more important.'"

What do we have here? An admission, by a woman, that men aren't as shallow as their reputation would suggest. I just find it interesting because you always hear about how looks aren't as important to women as they are to men. Yeah...turns out that's BS. Looks are pretty damn important to women. Maybe even more so than they are to men.

Pot, meet kettle.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 156
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/11/2011 3:04:14 AM

of course its good to socialize but most men dont get women throwing themselves at them like alot of women get from guys so we have to appear "creepy" or desperate" sometimes to pursue women.

Again....you don't "have" to do anything. This is dating, not survival.

its just how it is. i won't approach myself in public alot of the time because of fear of what how ill come across. its just natural if ur not overly extroverted. especially in my age group a woman will think ur creepy just for looking at her for more than a second or two so u can only imagine what its like for some guys.

Anything you do long enough to get used to is natural. If that's fear of rejection, than so be it. If it's getting used to making conversation with people (not just the women you have interest in, as that's an agenda) than so be it. It's not about who you are, it's about what you make a habit.

but a guy has to do the approaching and putting himself out there i realize that, not mattering how it looks. if u get rejcted u get rejected, women don't care for u, so u gotta move on and keep doing it. its life.

MEN DON'T HAVE TO APPROACH. Men don't have to date. Again, where is the law that you have to find someone? I've never seen it. Why do anything you don't like to date? IMO, what's the point if it's unpleasant? I'd rather crack a book if this was my experience.

However I agree that if you CHOOSE to approach someone there is a chance they won't be mutually interested, and that's part of the deal. There's no need to fear it or get frustrated over it. Just move on to the next person (if, of course there is someone you find interesting enough to move on to).

WIP, I have to disagree with you that it has nothing to with gender. There have been multiple studies showing that men and women tend to socialize differently, with women forming larger, more complex and more robust social networks, on average, compared to men. With this in mind, women, in general, have a certain "advantage" if you will, when it comes to creating, expanding or maintaining social networks. However, that being said, I do agree with you that notwithstanding such "advantage", both men and women alike can do it, if they choose to. Success is not determined by gender; men just have to work a little harder at it, and it doesn't come as natural to them.

Exactly. I'm sure the reason that study revealed what it did is that men were less fluent in it given they didn't do it as much. If more women are good at it, it's only because we do it more and we've done it longer. Men can easily close a gap like that, if they choose to.

As someone above mentioned, if a woman is attractive, she's going to have no problem getting dates, even if she has kids. If having kids was that big of a deal, then ugly people who didn't have kids would be rockstars of the dating world, on account of being childless. And that simply isn't true.

And? Perhaps people with children are less picky, or feel that they have to find someone.

According to Match, "single parents go on more dates than singles without kids, and more of these single parents are currently dating someone, too."

So yeah, us childless people just got owned.

How so? Those who aren't in a huge rush to date, don't. Those who are, do. Some don't care and date if/when there's reason to. So?

"More men than women would marry a partner they weren’t sexually attracted to,' says renowned biological anthropologist Dr. Helen Fisher. 'Shared interests and family are more important.'

What do we have here? An admission, by a woman, that men aren't as shallow as their reputation would suggest. I just find it interesting because you always hear about how looks aren't as important to women as they are to men. Yeah...turns out that's BS. Looks are pretty damn important to women. Maybe even more so than they are to men.

Pot, meet kettle.
"

What do you think you've discovered here?

Some men tend to make do with what they are presented with than hold out for something that they really want for fear of being single longer. That's not women being more picky, that's men being less picky in order to stay dating (and I still don't see why anyone feels they HAVE to date if they don't like the process or the options). And yeah women are into "attraction" which means we'd rather date a guy we can actually stomach seeing naked, or we'll sit the whole thing out. Would you rather we consider guys we don't want to look at and skip the intimacy?

If you think women should be less picky about attraction, then you're advocating pity dating, or leading men we don't want on - meaning we'll just be looking at men we do want. Then we'd have to read yet another thread about why women don't just come out and say we're not interested in the first place.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 158
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/11/2011 6:02:59 AM

What do we have here? An admission, by a woman, that men aren't as shallow as their reputation would suggest. I just find it interesting because you always hear about how looks aren't as important to women as they are to men. Yeah...turns out that's BS. Looks are pretty damn important to women. Maybe even more so than they are to men.


Do a thread search, there are plenty of us who admit that looks are important. Who decides to approach the person at the party they are least attracted to physically?
 FunkTheMillenium
Joined: 7/11/2010
Msg: 159
Online dating more difficult than real life!!!
Posted: 2/11/2011 2:18:52 PM
^^^^ very true.

also, anyone knows looks are important for both genders especially women because they are most usually in the driver's seat for a relationship to take off. give the green light for the go ahead.

if looks weren't importnat to them then most probably my last 4 or 5 meeting's off this site with all various women wouldn't have lasted only 5 minutes as they did. talk about meet-n-greet's L O L!

especially considering most usually i have to travel out of the area to get a meet (alot longer than a 5 minute drive). (im in a remote "ish" area).
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