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 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 145
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Homeless asking for Money....Page 11 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

Seriously enough with your amateur armchair psychologist routine.Its gotten boring and your not so clever as you seem to think.
I disagree... I happen to think that she is quite clever. And this is the opinion of a person that has been told on numerous occassions that I'm no slouch myself...

Dozens of people can't be wrong...
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 149
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/14/2010 10:48:48 PM
The next dollar you hand to a crack head may go to a pack of smokes or a beer which is actually more fatal, but legal!

Ironic isn't !

http://understandinguncertainty.org/node/574


You've misunderstood the study you're referring to. Researchers often give attention grabbing titles to their studies like "Alcohol is More Dangerous than Heroin". But if you don't actually read the study you'll get the wrong idea. The study was done in two parts. First, the impact of twenty different drugs on the individual...how much harm each drug does to you. And the second part was the over all harm on society. Alcohol is so widely used by millions and millions more people than heroin that it has a tremendous, huge, enormous effect on all of society in terms of health care costs, hours of labour lost to alcohol, police resources, etc etc. However, the effect on the individual is much less. For example, you can drink a glass of wine without feeling the need to sell your mama's couch to get another glass. When you look at the study in terms of a graph, alcohol does come out ahead of heroin on the danger scale, but only because of the huge cost to society as a whole. However, short of reading the study, a slight bit of common sense should tell you that heroin, coke, meth, are far more immediately dangerous to the user than alcohol or cigarettes.


The modelling exercise concluded that heroin, crack and methylamphetamine, also known as crystal meth, were the most harmful drugs to individuals, but alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine were the most harmful to society.

When the scores for both types of harm were added together, alcohol emerged as the most harmful drug, followed by heroin and crack.


So there you go.


Most homeless people have lived incredibly painful lives filled with all types of horrors that would have killed many of us. Many of the folks I speak with have a great amount of shame and this shame can be paralyzing when it runs deep in a person. There are so many causes of homelessness and expecting all homeless people to respond in the same manner to the help offered could be why there is still a homeless population in your city or any city for that matter?! Each individual is going to respond differently to any help that is offered, this includes the homeless and those of us fortunate enough to have a roof over our heads.


Wicked point. I knew a girl whose dad killed her mom and locked her in the room the the corpse for a few days when she was very young. She hated being inside and preferred to sleep outdoors. That's a rough one. I just wasn't buying the usual myths that go along with homelessness. There aren't enough resources or programs to help people. Criminal records make it impossible to get jobs. Not having an address makes it impossible to get a job. Alcohol is more dangerous than heroin. You know. Crazy sh't like that.


You people are oblivious!


Sophomoric maybe. But not oblivious.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 150
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/15/2010 12:15:55 AM
Yes, if I have some cash and it's safe to pull over to hand them money, but if it looks like someone trolling for drug or booze money, then no.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 151
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/15/2010 4:36:28 AM
While I haven't always held my present point-of-view as firmly as I do now, I have always tried to take the individual's side, and to keep my decisions based around what I can do to help that person.

Aside from shelter having a home is our own personal hub for food, communications, hygiene, and is for the most part, what establishes what is generally construed as 'normalcy' in one's day-t0-day life. Without one, it seems everything is in flux and one's ability to do what some here are just thinking can be achieved with motivation and thought alone, often is impossible.

Being able to get a job or land a job despite intent, requires access to a lot of established systems to be in place and those are interdependent, and usually available to us through our address alone. While some can argue that there are resources in every community for those who have no home, when one doesn't have those things readily close by or if those resources are scattered throughout a municipality--accessing them could take an entire day of walking.

In reading this thread, I pick up a sense of smugness around some people's particular 'bootstrap' stories. I know of mental illness, I know of depression...not as a personal story of my own, but certainly as the next best thing to actually having those problems; and know of the toll and difficulty that it takes on one's ability to process and work in the ways that most would see as being a 'productive' member of society.

Among those people who are homeless, many are afflicted not lazy---but of course statistically some are. It may seem that most are because the measure of evaluating worth for some suggests that laziness explains their lack of meaningful employment.

There are lots of people with white collar jobs right now who are no longer productive in their own spheres---but who 'enjoy' their (lazy) days spent at home on a couch because they can't really get up out of bed to do their 'work' bit any longer---not many are witnessing that, so they don't see how similar these circumstances are.

Lucky for them, they don't have to be out in public demonstrating what abject failures they are in their own lives.... They, like with many of the homeless afflicted, the most detrimental and debilitating thing that's going on -- is their own thinking and processing and it's often illness that's the root, not some notion that people largely want to be unproductive. Even if depression or other mental illness wasn't diagnosed initially, living a marginal 'shut out' excluded existence or being homeless, constantly feeling devalued, is hazardous toxic stuff; which over time does manifest in ways that destroys the opportunity to be motivated and therefore regain a place in society.

Even typing that, "regaining a place in society"...suggests that they don't have a place---don't they? It seems if you're without a home, you're not entitled to be ill..and be on the streets. Tons of people in your /our world are allowed to be ill....as long as they are confined to their own home. Take away the home, they're now not just ill but fall into the rank and file of the despicable.

Two very important readings among many from this thread...(for me anyway) include:

I think about what my late-mother used to say, "You never lose when you give". I also think of my late-father, who couldn't pass by a pan-handler without parting with a few bucks and more importantly, a word or two in recognition of his view that, in the absence of truly knowing anther's life circumstance, they are to be accorded the respect borne from basic human dignity.

and especially, this one:

Anytime we see an adult who is homeless, we can think about the child they once were and what might have happened to them. Anytime we see somebody who is pushing a shopping cart and talking to themselves or apparently drunk on the sidewalk, we know they didn't start out that way. They were once every bit as adorable as any other child; there was every bit as much hope in their eyes, every bit as much beauty in them as in our own children. Something happened to them, probably something awful, probably more than once, that broke them and brought them to their sorry state. They were once children who didn't get a fair break. So let's honor who they were. Let's at least give them a fair break now.

Interview between Marc Polonsky and John Records from the Sun Magazine Sept. 2008

 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 154
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/15/2010 6:33:04 AM

I haven't misunderstood it at all! Nice try though! ;)

It was suggested that by giving homeless people money we're actually helping kill them.
I also have to see the ignorant call them crackheads, and I call them ignorant because I'm refraining myself from saying exactly what I think of these ignorant folk!

More people die from alcohol and smoking as opposed to giving homeless people money for their next fix!!

So don't hand me that 'You're contributing to their demise nonsense!"


Just so you're not running around telling people alcohol is more dangerous than crack, here's one UK summary of the study you've been incorrectly referring to.


Alcohol is more dangerous than illegal drugs such as heroin and crack cocaine - when the ripple effect on society is taken into consideration, a new British study has found.

British experts said alcohol was most destructive because it was so widely used and had devastating consequences not only for drinkers but for those around them.

The study evaluated substances including alcohol, cocaine, heroin, ecstasy and marijuana, ranking them based on how destructive they were to the individuals who took them and to society as a whole.

Researchers analysed how addictive a drug was and how it harmed the human body, in addition to other criteria such as environmental damage caused by the drug, its role in breaking up families and its economic costs, such as healthcare, social services and prison.

Heroin, crack cocaine and methamphetamine, or crystal meth, were by far the most lethal to individuals.


Claro? Giving money to someone addicted to any of these drugs would be very much detrimental to their individual health. You are in fact leading them directly into personal danger. Crackheads are scary people and need to stop doing drugs before any meaningful progress can be made in their lives. You don't have the luxury of a lifetime of crack use before you die of liver failure.
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 155
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/19/2010 5:03:56 AM
To the point of having a bank account - sure you can cash a paycheck at Walmart, or a check cashing place for a small fee - but what if an employer doesn't give you a check, just uses direct deposit? I don't have a choice where I work - no bank account, no way to pay you, no job. Many employers use direct deposit exclusively.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 156
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/19/2010 10:12:08 AM
It's not uncommon to be paid by either direct deposit or given a card that costs you 5 dollars every time you use it, done so you get a checking account after getting tired of being ripped off. I thought it was weird the first time I heard of it too but yep, some places will only pay you if they can direct deposit it into your account. You'd think people would rise up and protest such a stupid thing but I guess most people have checking accounts of some sort and it doesn't effect them.
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 157
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/19/2010 11:36:59 AM
Both my sons have encountered a "no check" employer - one was Family Dollar, that used one of those cards that costs you $5 a month. I work for the County government and they do NOT issue checks, it is all direct deposit. I worked for a very large, tri-state construction company and it was the same thing.

Many employers have this in place because it saves them money.
 StevieCashmere
Joined: 4/22/2009
Msg: 158
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/27/2010 1:15:02 PM
In London, UK there are more Temporary Housing Shelter than homeless people on average, however rules of No Alcohol or drugs cannot often be met

~Stevie
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 160
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/20/2010 8:09:42 AM
Everybody needs money,specially the homeless,even they are feed,sheltered (not all the time),clothed, (St.Vincent issued them voucher for clothing with limited time) and have medical aid for them. But they still beg for money. And those homeless live only twice a year, Thanksgiving and Christmas all the people remembered them on these two days to make them happy...
Money is primary important in a person's life it is a power to live a decent life with dignity. Even just to buy a cigarret/popsoda that makes him a whole person.I always hand them a dollar, When I was working and have not experienced yet the pinch of economy I gave $20,10 or 5. And I don't care how they spend that money if they buy cocain,booze, ect. , my point is that someone knows they are special human beings and someone cares for them.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 161
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/21/2010 6:01:47 AM
If a man helps a starving dog become prosperous, the dog will not bite the man. That's the principal difference between a man and a dog. --- Mark Twain
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 163
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/21/2010 4:29:37 PM
Anecdotal "evidence" aka, stories, are always reasuring to our prejudices, our superiority over the unwashed masses, and help the thus-far lucky ones feel superior. The homeless I have known over the years were just like us lucky ones, till the luck ran dry. The focus on the substance abusers, aka, mentally ill, untreated Veterans, domestic violence victims, and others who fell into the negative feedback loop, along with their families, kids and other circles, feels good to us superior beings who would never, ever, fall that low. It's a comfort to feel superior. It's also a false personal promise to ourselves that it could never happen to US. With a third of the US population bordering on starvation in our economic meltdown, we need, more than ever, the fantasy that the American Weigh, will never let us down. That with applied grit, willingness to work as slaves, dehumanized, degraded at every turn, that we can prevail. Easy to imagine if you have not yet hit that rock bottom place. Easy to imagine if you have never been sent to wars, been beaten by a spouse, been beaten by teen punks, been downsized or offshored, had a major illness and then dropped by your health care "provider", had your house stolen by your trusted bank of decades, then divorced, then hit with disease, then hit with denial of benifits, etc..

There are two camps here as usual. Those who have empathy, and those who do not, given the luck of the draw thus far. We will all end up in the same camp given the trends of late. Living the fantasy of security is a good thing until it comes back to bite hard.
 softy63
Joined: 7/13/2008
Msg: 164
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/21/2010 6:24:25 PM
Last Christmas Eve I was disgusted to see a lady sitting on the ground in front of a shopping complex holding up a sign which read "Please give to the... blah blah blah ... Childrens Hospital."

There's no such hospital but the hat next to her was filled with money.

I was appalled at her deceipt. Playing on the heart strings of people who really thought they were giving to help sick children.

I've also seen people spending Charity funded food vouchers on useless things like cases of Coke, lollies and biscuits.

Its a shame because people like these put doubt in people's mind as to how desperate they really are.

I give what limited money I have to reputable charities to help those in need rather than the individual.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 165
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/22/2010 1:01:08 AM
I use my intuition and some info from people on the streets. Very rarely, I will give cash. Most of the time, I buy food. Most of my charities go to places that serve them. Many ARE hungry. but, many would still use the money for drugs. I figure, not into supporting the latter, but will do the best I can with food and donations that help people out of homelessness.

Having worked with teens from the "system", I know first hand that many had options. I also know that many kids from well to do homes, are out having fun with this. I also know they are mentally ill and post trauma victims out there. So, my way of handling the latter group is "food". Most are wandering and not willing/able to do the societal thing of landing a "normal" job, etc. However, lately many working people are homeless and many people who have lost jobs, just like you or me, are living out of their cars--that is, if they are lucky to have a car.

You need to use your intuition and if not sure, but want to do "something" give to food banks. Their needs are accelerating rapidly and funds are diminishing. Carry high protein items if you give out food.

Remember: There but for the grace of your Higher Power, go "YOU", especially in today's economy.
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 166
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Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/22/2010 6:10:26 AM
^^^Amen to that. I work for county government. Our commissioners are fighting over the 2011 budget. If nothing is signed by Dec. 31st - we will stop being paid. I've got my fingers crossed that it does not happen, but if it does...no idea what I, and many of my co-workers, will do.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 167
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 12/22/2010 2:29:20 PM
I sometimes do, sometimes don't. I like to help people out, but I often doubt that handing out money does a panhandler any good in the long run. Unlike some here, I do not see panhandling as a legitimate pursuit, and honesty is not a common character trait with it. I prefer to give to institutions rather than individuals. I have found that you can't really help a person who is not willing to improve his situation. Many, of course, are mentally ill, which is a tough enough problem with all the resources and luxuries in the world at one's disposal, let alone out on the street with nothing.
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