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 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 77
Homeless asking for Money....Page 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

If you are referring to Pat Robertson’s “charity,” I would agree. If, in the example of Elizabeth Dole, you are able to provide a 75% ROI (based on her $250,000 salary and $1,000,000 donation made to the Red Cross), then you have proven to be worth your salary, even if you do sweet bugger all for the rest of the year. Are you managing to achieve 75% ROI in your own investment portfolio?


cheshire:

usually what you post is accurate but by my calculations, actually netting $750,000 on an investment of $250,000 is an ROI of 300 %, not 75 %...
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 78
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/4/2010 10:26:46 PM
If you're gonna quote something ... quote the entire thing and debate that, not just the first portion of it


Well, well, you’ll have to excuse me if I find it too inefficient to replicate all your animated emoticons. That last post had me rubbing a layer of SPF 1,000,000 over my eyeballs. If you actually want your postings to be more readable, you could try losing them

That was in reference to your inability to quote the entire beginning argument in post98 by your post101 ... not the last post119. Still if 3 smilies in the entire first section blinds your eyeballs ... you're gonna need a stronger SPF ... among other things. The SPF is just an excuse.

I’m grouping these redundant comments about “BS,” “slick/fancy talk,” “charm,” and “bull$hit” together for efficiency’s sake. So, take a breath. Seriously. Every time I blink you're running on about fancy talk, fatcats, and BS. Yes, I suppose it is “BS” when you don’t possess those skills

That quite a stretch referring to ... making pretty speeches during fundraisers and rallying people to your cause by pep talk and throwing in a made-up "fun factor" for fundraising events ... as possessing "skills" of some sort. Even more when they have the ability to dry up the coffers by the time of the next year's campaign. That's like a For-Profit company managing to use up the annual budget so it won't be reduced or cut in the following year.

Every season when the United Way kicks off its campaign, the charity brass in their neatly press business suits will take the podium announcing their monetary goal. They throw-in the standard (and now overused) terms like community spirit, the less fortunate, caring and sharing, "for a city to be great ...", "it takes a village ...", blah ... blah ... blah. All in a concerted effort (with dress-up flair and pomp) to get people "excited" in putting on events for them. I would call that alot of BS and slick/fancy talk. The buy-in supporters will take that BS and continue churning it throughout the entire campaign while the president is sitting neat in her plush office knowing that she can now relax while the underlings do all the dirty work.

You don't have to support them. You don't have to like or value their work or their “community spirit.” You don't have to agree with their philosophies for that matter. You also don't have to be reasonable, but it's recommended

But I take great pleasure in devaluating their "work". Every chance I get, I speak out against charities ... not just here in the forums. I put charities in such negative light, people around me have been known to reconsider donating to them.

Nobody ever suggested that all those “lowly” members of society had the same specific skill set or value as a doctor, FFS. However, your continued references to “the people that do not matter,” whether they be charity staff or “tattered” homeless people, is really quite offensive, so expect to be called on it

Call me out all you want, but I will not change my expressions of the worth of certain "professions". Nor will I keep quiet so as not to offend you.

Not all professions are created equal. But you're trying to equalize the worth of charity people to that of scientists and doctors. That's like saying "everyone is special" when in actuality ... not very many are. People like you are always looking for new ways to celebrate mediocrity.

The highlighting isn’t wonky, since you can’t know what I chose to highlight in the first place. But yes, we get it by now – you’ve huffed and puffed and thrown all your toys out of the pram as an expression of your irrational dislike of homeless people

I wasn't referring to any highlights that you may have made. Try again. How's that SPF 1,000,000 working for ya??

I was referring to my highlighting of something YOU said when I quoted it for discussion.

Here it is again. Try to follow ... OK?? This is from your post101 ... fourth paragraph down.

"To further put things into perspective, donating 98 percent of all funds to donors would require that virtually every member ...".

Not wonky?? How does "donating to donors" work anyway?? You were caught with your panties down and you don't want to admit it.

My dislike for most homeless isn't irrational. I have rationalize it quite well including your tired spin on outrageous charity funding and spending.

So we have no problems with the small charities run by volunteers. We just have to do something about the giant bloodsuckers like Red Cross, World Vision, United Way ... to name a few


Bloodsuckers? Really? Your flair for the dramatic is really over-the-top

Bloodsuckers isn't really dramatic flair when you consider that most charities (especially the United Way) will come right out and announce that annual campaign goal in BIG $$$ signs. They quantify exactly how much blood they want to extract for the year in order to payout those executive salaries, perks and expense accounts.

Charities should never be a business like the private sector. A true business is FOR PROFIT, but charities are suppose to be NON-PROFIT. You just don't get that do you??


I’m suggesting that it’s actually you who isn’t quite there yet. The first, and most important difference between a for-profit and non-profit business is the profit (imagine!) NPOs are limited in how much they can re-invest and they are also limited in what they do with that four letter word – PROFIT

The last time I checked ... PROFIT is a six letter word. Who is it that isn't quite there yet??

A limit on re-investment and what they can do with profit is a check and balance that government has put into place to meet their rules for "Non-Profit". This is done to make charity activities seem acceptable to the general public in order to limit the outcries that might've ensued if the such rules were not in place. However ...

The point is that the profits of the NPO ALWAYS go toward supporting some cause that society deems as good and beneficial and not into the pockets of the investors. Director and staff are not investors. The government doesn’t prohibit the directors from receiving a salary in an NPO

That doesn't mean the workers and CEOs aren't profitting quite handsomely as one poster stated ... simply because they are not classified as "investors" in the same sense as the "For-Profit" organizations. In other words, simply declaring them as non-investors doesn't liberate them from the benefits of donations. It's a fancy play on rules and regulations. To the average donor, their money is still funding the livelihoods and pensions of charity workers. For them and their CEOs to receive high salaries above Wally World standards shows that they are all in it for the wrong reasons. They're not really there to help eradicate social problems ... but to fund their own lives ... based on social problems. Those working in charities would be quivering in their boots if all social ills suddenly came to a halt and they are forced to find REAL jobs.

So ... are we there yet?? Because POF has over 200 emoticons available.

It is for the donor – by the very mandate of an NPO organization. As already stated. ROI calculation is a standard accounting function. There’s an investment ($250,000), and an return ($1,000,000)

You don't seem to understand that the "investment" of $250,000 does NOT belong to the charity in the first place. It came out of the 1 million that the donor entrusted to the charity. How does someone "invest" something that wasn't theirs to begin with?? From the charities' viewpoint they spent $250,000 of donor's money to net $750,000 for the organization.

They may have had an ROI ... but the donor haven't received a return at all ... which was what I was trying to illustrate. However, that went right over your head.

For the purpose of simplicity we also don’t know where the monies are to be used, therefore, the return could be worth much more than 75%. Complaining about the true value of the ROI in this equation pointless as it is unknowable without all the other factors

Since charities haven't solved social issues like homelessness that they set out to ... and continues asking for donations ... it is safe to conclude that the methodology used to deal with homelessness isn't working. Thus, there hasn't been any return on the donor's investments. In fact, the ROI for the donor is negative. When a donor gives money to deal with homelessness, they expect the problem to be solved over time ... not just maintained ... and needing more donations at a later time. That's like a regular investor buying a stock and that stock continues to lose money but the broker encourages the investor to buy more shares in hopes that the stock might bounce back.

I say again ... Warren Buffet you are not.

I’m sure I’ll have no difficulty avoiding your portfolio so long as you don’t make an appearance in my lab attempting to discuss Watson & Crick’s most fundamental enunciation of the biochemical basis of heredity

What?? Their discovery of the double-helix and how the four fundamental base pairs bond together??

No, I won't show up at your lab discussing Watson & Crick as long as you don't show up to discuss the merits of local vs global negative feedback in operational amplifiers or how to improve transconductance in FETS.

There is no avoiding the fact that charities always need more money from year to year, and I fully understand why you’d stop short of realizing that:

1. Rising temperatures bring about decreased crop yields and resulting starvation which don’t go away by feeding someone one meal but are pervasive and go on without a foreseeable end in sight
2. More than a billion people in the 3rd world living on less than a dollar a day
3. 40 million people are infected with HIV or AIDS which doesn’t just go away with the
administration of a pill.
4. Trade and debt deficits existing within governments and always will, and impact impoverished or displaced persons.
5. Natural disasters occur in cycles.
6. Governments are often disinterested or lack consensus on the causes of poverty and disease
7. Governments are often corrupt

1. This one is similar to item 5 so see that answer. It also bears similarity to paragraph 2 of item 2.

2. Quite the feat that you have accomplished quoting that in the same breath as defending charity CEOs like Dole's ridiculously high salary. Hypocrisy much??? It's OK for Dole to receive her $250,000 while a billion people in the Third World is living on a dollar a day. Great logic if you start believing it. Oh ... but the charity can just ask for more money every year. Solves that problem, eh??

Furthermore, there should be more onus on Third World people to stop breeding. Can't help the starving multitudes if they keep making babies. We're not Jesus. Third World population must take some responsibility for themselves rather than expect wealthy nations to just keep on giving.

3. No, but it goes away when those people approached life differently than what they're accustom to. Whatever activity that's giving them AIDs should stop. Sure the ones already with AIDs will eventually die off, but more responsibility on the people's part will help curb new cases.

4. But the governments running impoverished nations are corrupt as you said in item 7 so those deficits are part of their corruption.

5. Yet they rebuild in the exact locations where they were last devastated. Why aren't charities relocating them?? Some of those devastated people from the 2004 tsunami in Indonesia are still waiting. Pity the Haitian's current crisis. Many of the charities that was suppose to help ... simply helped *themselves* to the loot that avalanched following each disaster.

6. Whose government ... ours or theirs??

7. So we should just keep feeding money to corrupt foreign governments while charities CEOs reap their own benefits?? You sound like Bono of U2.

None of this justifies continuing to pour resources into the problems. How long have charities been working on stemming the tide of social ills and injustices. Far too long. Are we that much better now than before despite all the billions spent?? Charities keep bandaging the wounds but they just keep bleeding. Clearly what they're doing is just keeping their heads above water and not much more. In another hundred years, the same problems will still exist and retired former charity CEOs shall past down that wealth to their heirs.

The salary that an employer pays me does NOT come from asking people for donations. The money comes from the products sold to businesses in need of such products


Again, so what? Your job isn’t any more virtuous because you work in the for-profit sector. You still put your pants on one leg at a time and pay the same marginal tax rate at source as any non-profit employee making the same money as you

Not more virtuous because it's For-Profit sector. It's more virtuous because the money doesn't come from donors ... who are not even getting the ROI they deserve.

Advertising yes. But if the businesses they're advertising to had no need for the products ... they won't buy


People who aren’t interested in products or services don’t actually buy them? You don’t say! I should just cancel my subscription to “Ipsos-Reid Marketing” right now and save myself some money. How do charitable solicitations deviate from your observation? If people don’t want to donate, they aren’t compelled to do so

You should cancel that subscription if you've learnt anything in your life. How does charitable solicitations differ?? Once they have your name and address ... it's guaranteed they'll be mailing you donation requests all year long ... whether or not you answer. No compelling?? More like arm twisting. They'll keep at it ... hoping that some will breakdown and just donate. Most do ... just to get the charity out of their faces for a while.

The industry I work for doesn't solicit in that way. If the customer wants the new available features, they upgrade. If not, they don't.

but she also had gangbuster results in terms of donations. Did the Red Cross LIE about what happened to the money? No, because they post their financial results to see for anyone who cares to look for them. I found it, Alooo found it, and so can most anyone else

Gangbuster results mean she's a pro at BS-ing. Nothing more. So what if you and other posters found their financial results ... anyone with Internet can. Is that suppose to impress me?? It doesn't change the fact their overhead costs are high ... like all major charities.

Thanks dougie for those enlightening statistics. That $651,957 could've purified a bit MORE water in Haiti or bandaged up a few MORE broken limbs. Moreover, that $1,200,000 could've benefited some poor Third World orphan


Too bad that both of the quotations were subsequently shown to be incorrect


UNICEF ... The President and CEO of the United States Fund for UNICEF is Caryl M. Stern, who receives yearly compensation in the $420,000-$475,000 range. Both Charity Navigator and Forbes rate this organization's efficiency at 92%

$420,000-$475,000 is no chump change. That poor Third World Orphan. 92% is still below my requirement of 98% efficiency. So no dice.

American Red Cross ... The current President and CEO of the American Red Cross (since 2008) is Gail J. McGovern, who receives yearly compensation in the $447,000-$495,000 range. Charity Navigator and Forbes rate this organization's efficiency at 92% and 90%, respectively

The way I see it ... $447,000-$495,000 could still purify quite a bit of water and bandage up a few more broken limps.

United Way ... The President and CEO of United Way Worldwide is Brian A. Gallagher, who receives yearly compensation in the $983,000-$1,037,000 range. Both Charity Navigator and Forbes rate this organization's efficiency at 85%

dougie's quote of Brian Gallagher's loot was actually low-balled.

Brian Gallagher, President of the United Way receives a $375,000 base salary, plus numerous expense benefits

Now we know what was meant by "plus numerous expense benefits".

These figures are still ridiculously high. Thus the report haven't convince me to donate to any of these organizations.

Again, wrong. No Rolls. Debunked. So sorry. I sleep just fine, thanks for your concern. In fact, after a couple more sentences, that's exactly what I plan to do

Did you ever thought that the Rolls might be well-hidden?? That's a mighty large pillow you wrap your head up with ... in order to accept the above numbers.

I just love debunking bad data (no offense to the original poster – who thought it was kosher). At least you’re now looking at the accurate stats

You've debunked nothing. I can still poke holes in your arguments. That's just delusional thinking because of that enormous pillow. I love debunking the "false prophet" debunkers. It's fun.
 Delete_Me_Please
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 79
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/5/2010 12:21:08 AM

God is my protector and I know he'd protect me from danger.
So what's so special about you that he'll keep you out of danger but he'll be a douchebag to so many of his other believers?
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 81
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/5/2010 7:07:28 AM
Every season when the United Way kicks off its campaign, the charity brass in their neatly press business suits will take the podium announcing their monetary goal. They throw-in the standard (and now overused) terms like community spirit, the less fortunate, caring and sharing, "for a city to be great ...", "it takes a village ...", blah ... blah ... blah. All in a concerted effort (with dress-up flair and pomp) to get people "excited" in putting on events for them. I would call that alot of BS and slick/fancy talk. The buy-in supporters will take that BS and continue churning it throughout the entire campaign while the president is sitting neat in her plush office knowing that she can now relax while the underlings do all the dirty work.


You're totally out to lunch. The United Way has one of the best ratings of any charity out there. A whopping 3% of its total budget goes to administrative costs. It's ridiculous how effecient this charity is. Which brings up the question...what's the source of your anger towards this charity?

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6871

If the idea of a charity being organized is distasteful to you, why don't you try shipping a bag of rice to Africa yourself. Go to Safeway, buy a twenty pound sack of rice for full retail value (ten bucks), pay full retail shipping, pay someone to receive it in Africa and then drive it to somewhere where it's needed. Account for the time it takes you to accomplish this. After that, see how much of your original ten dollar budget could be attributed to a direct donation to your cause. Then you'll see the ROI you get from charities is real. It's an economy of scale, or effeciency and has real value to every "investor".


But I take great pleasure in devaluating their "work". Every chance I get, I speak out against charities ... not just here in the forums. I put charities in such negative light, people around me have been known to reconsider donating to them.


Such nobility. What a fabulous cause you've dedicated your existence to.


Not all professions are created equal. But you're trying to equalize the worth of charity people to that of scientists and doctors


Actually you're the only one trying to do that and it doesn't even make sense. It's like saying apples are better than bananas.


Bloodsuckers isn't really dramatic flair when you consider that most charities (especially the United Way) will come right out and announce that annual campaign goal in BIG $$$ signs. They quantify exactly how much blood they want to extract for the year in order to payout those executive salaries, perks and expense accounts.


So, in reality, 3% of The United Way's budget goes to administration including salaries. How's that bloodsucking? Do you think these organizations aren't audited? They're audited every year and the results are publicized just like every other public company.


The last time I checked ... PROFIT is a six letter word. Who is it that isn't quite there yet??


You're not quite there yet. She's talking about the proverbial four letter word. Kind of like "winter" is a four letter word. Oh never mind.


A limit on re-investment and what they can do with profit is a check and balance that government has put into place to meet their rules for "Non-Profit". This is done to make charity activities seem acceptable to the general public in order to limit the outcries that might've ensued if the such rules were not in place.


NO! It's actually done to make sure the government isn't getting screwed out of any tax on profit. It has nothing to do with public perceptions of charities.


Those working in charities would be quivering in their boots if all social ills suddenly came to a halt and they are forced to find REAL jobs.


What do you think the chances of that happening would be?


Yet they rebuild in the exact locations where they were last devastated. Why aren't charities relocating them?? Some of those devastated people from the 2004 tsunami in Indonesia are still waiting. Pity the Haitian's current crisis. Many of the charities that was suppose to help ... simply helped *themselves* to the loot that avalanched following each disaster.


Right. That's why you do ten seconds of research and find charities like the United Way that have outstanding records of effeciency. Or just trash every charity on the planet 'cause not helping anyone is a much better policy.


Furthermore, there should be more onus on Third World people to stop breeding. Can't help the starving multitudes if they keep making babies. We're not Jesus. Third World population must take some responsibility for themselves rather than expect wealthy nations to just keep on giving.

3. No, but it goes away when those people approached life differently than what they're accustom to. Whatever activity that's giving them AIDs should stop. Sure the ones already with AIDs will eventually die off, but more responsibility on the people's part will help curb new cases.


Both of these problems are major United Way campaigns. Why wouldn't you just have a look...oh yeah.....


Call me out all you want, but I will not change my expressions of the worth of certain "professions". Nor will I keep quiet so as not to offend you.


....your mind is made up and ain't nuthin' gonna change it.


None of this justifies continuing to pour resources into the problems. How long have charities been working on stemming the tide of social ills and injustices. Far too long. Are we that much better now than before despite all the billions spent?? Charities keep bandaging the wounds but they just keep bleeding. Clearly what they're doing is just keeping their heads above water and not much more.


Yeah. Bandaging wounds and keeping heads above water is pretty evil. The United Way is actually doing exactly what you suggested in the above paragraph.


So what if you and other posters found their financial results ... anyone with Internet can. Is that suppose to impress me?? It doesn't change the fact their overhead costs are high ... like all major charities.


Your fact is totally wrong in regards to your most hated charity. Why don't you use your internet capabilities to find out a bit about what you're talking about.


92% is still below my requirement of 98% efficiency. So no dice.


The United Way is running at 97% efficiency. Does this still fall short of your requirements? Sadly...yes. The millions of dollars that go directly towards helping victims of disaster all over the world is shot to hell over about thirty grand. That's idiotic.


The way I see it ... $447,000-$495,000 could still purify quite a bit of water and bandage up a few more broken limps.


This is so stupid. Again, if you personally can get your sack of rice to Africa for less money, then we're on to something. Other than that, charities need administrative staff to function. Without them, no one gets any aid. So your 447k-495k would get you absolutely sweet f' all.


Now we know what was meant by "plus numerous expense benefits".

These figures are still ridiculously high. Thus the report haven't convince me to donate to any of these organizations.


These figures are much less now than in the early 2000's. They're in the 250k range. What you don't get is that running any operation the size of any major charity requires many of the same skills that any similarly sized business would. You need a certain amount of professionalism to manage such a huge campaign. And anybody running a for profit business that is the same size as any major charity gets paid several times as much. These salaries are in no way out of line. Once again, if you can send a bag of rice to Africa for less money, then you're correct.


Charity Navigator recommends looking at each organization's CEO compensation as a percentage of total annual expenses. For example, Marsha Evans' salary, generous as it seems, amounts to only .15% of American Red Cross' annual expenses. By contrast, Brian Gallagher's salary is .97% of United Way's total expenses, and W. Todd Bassett's compensation amounts to .29% of the Salvation Army's annual expense budget. All these figures are well below the annual average calculated for the thousands of organizations in Charity Navigator's database, 3.4%.


So you're good then?




Did you ever thought that the Rolls might be well-hidden?? That's a mighty large pillow you wrap your head up with ... in order to accept the above numbers.


Ahhhhh. So it's a hidden conspiracy? Excellent. You've got proof of this, right? You're debunking of the false prophets is lacking.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 83
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/5/2010 5:57:08 PM
The thing I love most about this thread...
Is that people I have disagreed with in the past over other issues, chimed in and showed their humanity in an endearing way on this issue. As much as we may disagree on some things, compassion for our fellow beings, empathy, and belief that we can be better than this, that any of us is a pink slip or disease away from disaster, is far more telling of character than our other nuances over other subjects.

The other thing I like about discussions like these..
People on a dating site are more than willing to show what total jerks they are, how special and above it all they are, how much disdain there is for charity work and the charitable and giving and the "weak" among us, and do not care whatsoever, that others know this about them.

Bless you all and best wishes for staying warm, with shelter, healthy, with healthcare, employed, with benefits, and terminated kindly when it happens. Odds are...

It's cold outside. And inside some times.
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 86
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/6/2010 3:41:40 AM
Now, if I just had a flux-capacitor so I could go back in time and change
that!

That's a Flux-Capacitor with Plutonium and a DeLorean at 88mph. FC alone won't do it.

Only a very insecure person could continue beating his…….argument for so long, showing us all that for every complex problem, there are answers that are thoughtless, stultifyingly stupid, and just plain wrong

Or a very determined person. Insecure?? Sounds like that applies to you and your cohorts too since you're all continuing to beat this to death as well. Plainly wrong in your camp only.

I just "love" how the "compassion for humanity" crowd self-appoint themselves as the not insecure, not stupid, not wrong camp. But everyone else in disagreement with them is the polar opposite. You're gonna dislocate your shoulder socket patting yourselves on the back so much?? Change that "compassion for humanity" label to "minions easily duped to fill charity CEO's comfy pension plans".

Padawan61, I was going to prep a point-by-point rebuttal, but since OMGWTF set his phasers on PWNAGE, it now seems unnecessary

But OMG!WTF!'s Phaser must've had (either) a failed storage charge in the Sarium Krellide power-cell or his Pre-fire Chamber was out of alignment. Consequently, the Nadion particle discharge energy index was pitifully low ... resulting in a negligible SEM:NDF ratio.

In other words ... I was unfazed.

You're totally out to lunch. The United Way has one of the best ratings of any charity out there. A whopping 3% of its total budget goes to administrative costs. It's ridiculous how effecient this charity is

A "whopping" 3% for admin costs?? Not according to CheshireCatalyst's own link from post113 ...

Using the renowned CheshireCatalyst-ism ... "cited here":

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/charities.asp

United Way: The United Way is another charitable organization that operates on both global and local levels. The President and CEO of United Way Worldwide is Brian A. Gallagher, who receives yearly compensation in the $983,000-$1,037,000 range. Both Charity Navigator and Forbes rate this organization's efficiency at 85%

This was last updated: 30 October 2010

Clearly Charity Navigator is providing misleading information if they cited 85% and 97% efficiency for the United Way. The 85% was corroborated by Forbes.

Which brings up the question...what's the source of your anger towards this charity?

You want the story. Here it is:

I had worked for two large (and unrelated) companies that handed out donation envelopes ... during the United Way's annual campaign in different years ... to the employees. The employers did not ask each employee whether they wish to donate before handing them this donation envelope. They just assumed that everyone wanted to be brought on board in the idea. They'd even assigned an employee who volunteered to go around collecting the envelopes on the due date ... like a teacher collecting book report assignments. Needless to say, the apparent coercion to donate was quite distasteful. Not just to me but many other employees. So much that those making bigger dollars than I ... also chose not to donate. Many employees simply tossed the envelopes into the trash when they received it and told the collection person to get lost.

Moreover, during one particular year's campaign, a co-worker in my department insisted on full participation. When I said no, he threatened to get me fired. Fired?? For not willingly donate money?? Needless to say ... I suggested he retract what he said or face a lawsuit. No employer can fire someone for not donating to a fundraiser. This person was so wrapped up in the United Way hype that he couldn't think straight. But guess what?? The guy was the one fired for poor job performance. Ha!!

The local United Way has gotten large organizations so mesmerized in the idea of "community spirit" that those organizations has become obedient accomplices in twisting people's arms for handouts.

If the idea of a charity being organized is distasteful to you, why don't you try shipping a bag of rice to Africa yourself

Because helping Africa is the favorite past-time of U2's Bono and I hate the guy.

Besides, sending any sort of aid to Africa is useless ... considering the billions that has already been spent with no apparent light at the end of the tunnel. Much of the money ended up in the pockets of corrupt governments. If you're so free with your money as to not care that you're supporting corruption ... be my guest ... send your entire life savings and all paychecks to help out Africa (and your favorite charity).

But I take great pleasure in devaluating their "work". Every chance I get, I speak out against charities ... not just here in the forums. I put charities in such negative light, people around me have been known to reconsider donating to them


Such nobility. What a fabulous cause you've dedicated your existence to

Thank you. I pride myself on balancing the scales a bit.

Not all professions are created equal. But you're trying to equalize the worth of charity people to that of scientists and doctors


Actually you're the only one trying to do that and it doesn't even make sense. It's like saying apples are better than bananas

I am???? Better check your pulse to see if you're still alive.

So, in reality, 3% of The United Way's budget goes to administration including salaries. How's that bloodsucking? Do you think these organizations aren't audited? They're audited every year and the results are publicized just like every other public company

See above comment on the Forbes evaluation.

The last time I checked ... PROFIT is a six letter word. Who is it that isn't quite there yet??


You're not quite there yet. She's talking about the proverbial four letter word. Kind of like "winter" is a four letter word. Oh never mind

Thanks for that ... junior Einstein.

A limit on re-investment and what they can do with profit is a check and balance that government has put into place to meet their rules for "Non-Profit". This is done to make charity activities seem acceptable to the general public in order to limit the outcries that might've ensued if the such rules were not in place


NO! It's actually done to make sure the government isn't getting screwed out of any tax on profit. It has nothing to do with public perceptions of charities

The government doesn't need such rules to make sure they aren't screwed out of tax revenue. They have revenue watchdogs for that. Besides, if the government wanted more taxes, I'd think they would allow re-investments since such re-investments will bring value to the company's worth. A rise in company worth brings in more investors and more revenue. Thus, they all become taxable.

Those working in charities would be quivering in their boots if all social ills suddenly came to a halt and they are forced to find REAL jobs


What do you think the chances of that happening would be?

None. That's why we will never be rid of these charity hogs and their insatiable desire for other people's cash. And my continued disgust of their questionable practices.

Yet they rebuild in the exact locations where they were last devastated. Why aren't charities relocating them?? Some of those devastated people from the 2004 tsunami in Indonesia are still waiting. Pity the Haitian's current crisis. Many of the charities that was suppose to help ... simply helped *themselves* to the loot that avalanched following each disaster


Right. That's why you do ten seconds of research and find charities like the United Way that have outstanding records of effeciency. Or just trash every charity on the planet 'cause not helping anyone is a much better policy

Were you asleep at the wheel when it came to light that there were still victims of the 2004 tsunami still needing help, but the charities have all packed up and vacated from the area ... thinking their work was done??

Both of these problems are major United Way campaigns. Why wouldn't you just have a look...oh yeah.....

Missed the part about impoverished nations taking some measure of responsibility for their own success ... did we?? Let a thought seep in, it might do you some good.

Call me out all you want, but I will not change my expressions of the worth of certain "professions". Nor will I keep quiet so as not to offend you


....your mind is made up and ain't nuthin' gonna change it

As are everyone else on these threads. Are you somehow .......... different and holier??

Yeah. Bandaging wounds and keeping heads above water is pretty evil. The United Way is actually doing exactly what you suggested in the above paragraph

Still haven't caught on yet, eh?? They can bandage MORE wounds and purify MORE water if they didn't payout ridiculous salaries to workers and CEOs.

So what if you and other posters found their financial results ... anyone with Internet can. Is that suppose to impress me?? It doesn't change the fact their overhead costs are high ... like all major charities


Your fact is totally wrong in regards to your most hated charity. Why don't you use your internet capabilities to find out a bit about what you're talking about

Considering that I simply used the "eye opener" link that CheshireCatalyst provided ... that makes her wrong too. I must be pinched your nerves about the United Way. Do you work for the them by any chance ... with a sizeable pension plan saved up?? Because it sounds like you have some vested interest in the United Way ... so you've become their personal spokesman ... and PR puppet. But I guess you're still young, naive and impressionable.

92% is still below my requirement of 98% efficiency. So no dice


The United Way is running at 97% efficiency. Does this still fall short of your requirements? Sadly...yes. The millions of dollars that go directly towards helping victims of disaster all over the world is shot to hell over about thirty grand. That's idiotic

97%?? Nadah!! Again see above. Oh ... so now it's only $30 grand to fund the United Way. Twist the facts much??

The way I see it ... $447,000-$495,000 could still purify quite a bit of water and bandage up a few more broken limp


This is so stupid. Again, if you personally can get your sack of rice to Africa for less money, then we're on to something. Other than that, charities need administrative staff to function. Without them, no one gets any aid. So your 447k-495k would get you absolutely sweet f' all

My oh my?? You're really hung up on Africa, aren't you?? No ... charities only need volunteers to function. The workers who are getting paid are in it for the wrong reasons. And if you had $447,000-$495,000 ... you could send quite a few sacks of rice to Africa yourself.

These figures are much less now than in the early 2000's. They're in the 250k range. What you don't get is that running any operation the size of any major charity requires many of the same skills that any similarly sized business would. You need a certain amount of professionalism to manage such a huge campaign. And anybody running a for profit business that is the same size as any major charity gets paid several times as much. These salaries are in no way out of line

You charity defenders are always claiming it takes $$ to attract skills and talent to large charity organizations. As I've stated several posts back ... their only "skill" is the ability to BS and cut a slice of the donation pie for their own lifestyles and pension plans. Other than that ... no valuable skills are brought to the table.

So you're good then?

No. Are you??

Did you ever thought that the Rolls might be well-hidden?? That's a mighty large pillow you wrap your head up with ... in order to accept the above numbers


Ahhhhh. So it's a hidden conspiracy? Excellent. You've got proof of this, right? You're
debunking of the false prophets is lacking

If it was that well hidden, no one would have proof. That's what "well-hidden" means. Oh!! The joy of youthful naiveté. I was once like you. Impressionable by all the slick-BS, but I saw the light. One day ... you will wake up too.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 87
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/6/2010 6:49:30 AM
Disgruntled ex-employees are a wealth of opinion. Must be a beich to live in such a hostile mindset.

Just Jim...I am with you on the coercive nature of churchs and "giving". I watched a street preacher here make her captive, hungry droves of homeless, sit through an hour of fire and brimstone before they could be fed. The soup was getting cold and she was punishing these folks, humiliating them, when they showed up for food, only to be force fed her brand of Christianity where the only reason they were homeless was cuz they didn't love god and jesus enough. Ironically, she must have loved god and jesus as much as a dozen people combined, given her girth.

With all the churches burning down, blown away by storms, and untold millions of humble praying people homeless and starving on a given day, that prayer thingy seems to have some more rules that people don't know about or aren't doing right.
Those Haitian Christians really screwed up the prayer thing.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 88
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/6/2010 7:09:14 AM
Hmmm. Puzzling. Padawan, listen really closely. You're incorrect about the United Way. If you look carefully at any and all descriptions of United Way effeciency, you'll see that they have many different organizations, 141 in total in the United States. Each branch has its own rating. Some are good, some are bad. But most are above average. So for you to blindly say they're all a bunch of criminals collecting way to much in salary is daft. The national branch that sees Brian Gallagher making almost a million bucks is the administrative head office for the whole American organization. They operate at about 85% effeciency. Gallagher's salary is about .1% of its budget, ten times less than the average ceo of a company with similar capital. However their main focus is administration for the entire United Way organization. Their tax filing and spending on program often gets pushed back to december to accomodate more fund raising which drops their ratings annually. If you look at the international branch, the second largest in the states, they operate at 97% effeciency. Then if you bothered to research anything in your particular area of operation, you could find out if the branch closest to you is operating effeciently or not.



My oh my?? You're really hung up on Africa, aren't you?? No ... charities only need volunteers to function. The workers who are getting paid are in it for the wrong reasons. And if you had $447,000-$495,000 ... you could send quite a few sacks of rice to Africa yourself


You want volunteers to operate a 60 million dollar a year concern? You expect people to work for an entire year, full time, functioning in a capacity very much similar to any other ceo, for free? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Just basic common sense would tell you that to operate such a charity would at the very least require a full time 2000 hour a year commitment from someone to manage it. There's a difference between charitable donations and working fulltime for free in a position that does require above average skill. That's just not reality.



You charity defenders are always claiming it takes $$ to attract skills and talent to large charity organizations. As I've stated several posts back ... their only "skill" is the ability to BS and cut a slice of the donation pie for their own lifestyles and pension plans. Other than that ... no valuable skills are brought to the table


You've stated this before but you're wrong. Just one example is Brian Gallagher. He's got a degree in Social Work and an MA in Business Admin. He's also worked for the United Way since 1981. So you would suggest that this guy should have volunteered for the last 30 years? And that he has no experience or skills that would be of value to this organization?

Here's a better example. Terresa Hall Bartels is the CEO of the international branch of the United Way. She's got BA's and MA's in related fields, owned and operated a 50 million dollar for profit business. Here...



Bartels owned and operated Hallbart Holdings, L.L.C., specializing in strategic planning consultation, leadership coaching and change management, primarily with not-for-profit organizations. Until April 2000, she and her husband, Chuck, owned and operated the Manpower franchise in Northeastern Illinois for 31 years. In that role, Bartels focused on strategic planning, sales and marketing, and staff development. She also served as an advocate for community involvement within Manpower International. During her 16 years with the local franchise, it grew from $5 million to $50 million in annual revenue; from one to 12 locations; from 10 to over 100 staff members. The franchise employed more than 5,000 people on assignment each year, creating thousands of new jobs.


She's also chaired a number of large corporations, raised money for charities since 1980 and received honorary degrees in philanthropy. You actually think this woman couldn't make 250k a year doing ANYTHING else? You really believe any volunteer would have the same skills as her? That's beyond idiotic.

Ruth Ramsden Wood is the ceo/president of the Calgary Ab United Way, our piddly little hometown. She has an MA from Columbia, a Doctorate in Law and has served on several boards for several organizations in Canada. She was on of Canada's top 100 most influential people. She was business woman of the year in 2008. Do you really think she's over paid at 210k a year? Do you really think a volunteer would donate 100% of his/her time for an entire year while he/she possesses these types of skills in the prime working years of his/her life?



Other than that ... no valuable skills are brought to the table.


Yeah...Business Person of the Year, Doctoral degrees, and thirty years of experience. No valuable skills. You make me laugh Padawan.

Here's what United Way salaries are based on in Canada...



All salaries at United Way of Calgary and Area, including senior management, are benchmarked against other Canadian non-profit organizations of similar size and scope in Calgary and throughout Canada.

United Way of Calgary and Area is in compliance with the required T3010 regulatory reporting to Canada Revenue Agency for its executive compensation, which can be viewed at www.cra-arc.gc.ca


So what's your problem? Oh yeah....



You want the story. Here it is:

I had worked for two large (and unrelated) companies that handed out donation envelopes ... during the United Way's annual campaign in different years ... to the employees


No. No one cares about your horrible experience at work one day. You're mad 'cause people not employed by the Uited Way asked you for money. How sad.



Considering that I simply used the "eye opener" link that CheshireCatalyst provided ... that makes her wrong too. I must be pinched your nerves about the United Way. Do you work for the them by any chance ... with a sizeable pension plan saved up?? Because it sounds like you have some vested interest in the United Way ... so you've become their personal spokesman ... and PR puppet. But I guess you're still young, naive and impressionable


I have nothing to do with the United Way. Why would you expect someone working for the them full time to not have a pension plan? It's a job just like other people have jobs with pensions. You actually expect ten thousand people in Canada to work for free while you go out and earn an income and pension at what ever it is you do? That's f'cked.



Were you asleep at the wheel when it came to light that there were still victims of the 2004 tsunami still needing help, but the charities have all packed up and vacated from the area ... thinking their work was done??


Were you asleep at the wheel when it came to light that there is a tsunami's worth of victims of aids, starvation and war every few days in Africa? Do you think these charities just packed up and went home when the beaches got too crowded again? Sheesh. Wake up, man.



Missed the part about impoverished nations taking some measure of responsibility for their own success ... did we?? Let a thought seep in, it might do you some good.


That's a different thread but my God is that ever ignorant. Personally Africa isn't my thing. I hate Bono too. Aid gets stolen all the time, but charities are not to blame. Even so, just the tiniest smidge of common sense would tell you that taking responsibility for your own country might be slightly difficult when you've been financially crippled by lending practices, plundered and then uncompensated for resources, and lead into years of civil conflict by foreign influence. All of this is debatable, none of it is untrue and all of it only represents a fraction of the many reasons you're totally ignorant on the matter.



If it was that well hidden, no one would have proof. That's what "well-hidden" means. Oh!! The joy of youthful naiveté. I was once like you. Impressionable by all the slick-BS, but I saw the light. One day ... you will wake up too


Actually I've been down your road. I've taken one bit of information and spewed forth ignorantly before. I've seen the news programs about bad charities. I know they're out there. A lot of them really suck. But somewhere in my youthful naivete I realized that it's not reasonable for all charities to be evil and corrupt as you think they are. In fact, only a small number are. I also know from business experience that it takes some degree of talent to operate any organized money generating concern. It also doesn't take a genius or junior Einstein to figure out that an organized charity will benefit from economies of scale and efficiencies vastly more than one off contributions. But you're more than welcome to think that all charities are all bad all the time because one CEO makes almost a million bucks. That's the basis of your argument and if that's what you're going to hang your hat on, naivete is the least of your concerns.
 curlygrl
Joined: 11/8/2006
Msg: 89
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/6/2010 9:38:22 AM

Here's my question: Do you give money to the 'homeless' who stand on freeway off ramps or a grocery stores with cardboard signs that say 'xxxxxxxxxx'?

Yup.

I'm also not going to explain why I do this as I'm not in the mood to get in a pissing contest.

I just do.
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/7/2010 3:16:25 AM
Padawan, listen really closely. You're incorrect about the United Way. If you look carefully at any and all descriptions of United Way effeciency, you'll see that they have many different organizations, 141 in total in the United States. Each branch has its own rating. Some are good, some are bad

WTF! ... you need to listen very closely at what you're saying. In this post, you say the United Way has many divisions throughout. Each branch has it own rating. Well ... duh?? We know that. In your effort to paint them in a positive light, YOU quoted a 97% efficiency. Are you such a narrow thinking person as to believe the 97% represents the AVERAGE efficiency of all their branches?? I tend to believe the 85% as the average. You do know what average means right?? If you admit there are bad branches of the United Way, those tend to bring down the overall rating.

So for you to blindly say they're all a bunch of criminals collecting way to much in salary is daft

So for you to blindly say their overall rating is 97% shows you to be >>>>

Gallagher's salary is about .1% of its budget, ten times less than the average ceo of a company with similar capital. However their main focus is administration for the entire United Way organization

That's another problem with the United Way, it is just an umbrella administrative organization designed to collect donations and pass it along to the smaller charities. Meanwhile ... they get a cut of the pie just for being the "middleman". Now you're saying Brian Gallagher's organization is the "umbrella" for the "middleman". Yet another layer of adminstrative bureaucracy set up to slice off more of the pie.

It is because of all these layers upon layers of redundant administration overhead sucking up donor's money that enrages me. Each redundant person is taking a salary and benefits package. Making a tidy living off of donor generosity.

Ever heard of bloated governments?? That applies to charities too.

If you look at the international branch, the second largest in the states, they operate at 97% effeciency

One branch does not make them all excel at 97%. On one hand, you claim that the 85% rating of Gallagher's organization ISN'T representative of all United Way branches. On the other hand, the single rating of the second largest branch in the US ... IS THE representative???? Do you not see your own illogic here?? Wait ... maybe you don't see after all. Or just see what you wish to see.

My oh my?? You're really hung up on Africa, aren't you?? No ... charities only need volunteers to function. The workers who are getting paid are in it for the wrong reasons. And if you had $447,000-$495,000 ... you could send quite a few sacks of rice to Africa yourself


You want volunteers to operate a 60 million dollar a year concern? You expect people to work for an entire year, full time, functioning in a capacity very much similar to any other ceo, for free? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard

That's because you don't have the brain power to think deeper than "entire year", "full time" and "2000 hour commitment". Who said I meant a volunteer must work full time for the entire year?? I'm saying that if enough people like YOU gave their time (part time) ... then charities can have the efficiency of Santa's toy workshop. More elves make the work lighter.

Furthermore, who said volunteers are so unskilled that they can't manage large operating assets?? What?? You're saying that once they're put on the payroll, those skills magically appear?? Sure there are those volunteers who can be just office filing clerks, but if enough people donated their time, there would be a wide cross-section of needed skills to make the charity function without highly paid personnel.

Oh ... but it could also be that those with the "skills" of fancy PR BS won't want to give away their time for free ... right?? Ramsden-Woods can't simply volunteer part of her time and contribute her "skills" while working a REAL job the rest of the time, eh??

You charity defenders are always claiming it takes $$ to attract skills and talent to large charity organizations. As I've stated several posts back ... their only "skill" is the ability to BS and cut a slice of the donation pie for their own lifestyles and pension plans. Other than that ... no valuable skills are brought to the table


You've stated this before but you're wrong. Just one example is Brian Gallagher. He's got a degree in Social Work and an MA in Business Admin. He's also worked for the United Way since 1981. So you would suggest that this guy should have volunteered for the last 30 years?

Wrong because I don't agree with you. Said so before ... any profession not in the hard sciences and technologies has little value to me and is relegated to the bottom of the barrel. So yes ... Brian Gallagher's skill is little more than the ability to slick talk and administer himself a slice of the pie for 30 years. In fact ... after 30 years of "slicing and dicing", I'm sure he's bankrolled quite a comfortable retirement cushion for himself from donor's money.

No ... I'm saying he should've volunteered some of his time over the last 30 years and devoted most of his life to a REAL job in the private sector.

She's also chaired a number of large corporations, raised money for charities since 1980 and received honorary degrees in philanthropy. You actually think this woman couldn't make 250k a year doing ANYTHING else? You really believe any volunteer would have the same skills as her? That's beyond idiotic

A volunteer would have such "skills" if Terresa Hall Bartels was one of them giving her time. It is beyond idiotic when she gave up her so-called business and went to work for the United Way ... rather than keep her business and volunteer some of her time for free. If enough people like her did that ... we won't need to pay high salaries for charity CEOs. But no ... she and others like her are so *full of* their own "skills" that they can't imagine not being paid for some of their time. Oh puhleese!! Ditto for Ramsden-Woods.

So really ... their heart isn't really about philanthropy. It's all about making a buck for themselves and putting on the false front of community spirit.

Other than that ... no valuable skills are brought to the table


Yeah...Business Person of the Year, Doctoral degrees, and thirty years of experience. No valuable skills. You make me laugh Padawan

"Business Person of the Year"?? Now that does make me laugh. In fact, I'm ROTFLMAO. I'll stop laughing when the person is awarded something more prestigious. Oh ... I don't know ... the Nobel Prize in a revered field of scientific achievement, maybe??

So what's your problem? Oh yeah....

You finally getting it ... maybe??

No one cares about your horrible experience at work one day. You're mad 'cause people not employed by the Uited Way asked you for money. How sad

No ... I wasn't mad just because some in-house employee asked me for money. I'm mad because the United Way has managed to turn thinking people into little unthinking minions to do their dirty work. And it wasn't only one day ... it was an annual ritual of many days. The employers put on these ridiculous fundraising events all week long during each campaign ... brainwashing people to participate.

I have nothing to do with the United Way. Why would you expect someone working for the them full time to not have a pension plan? It's a job just like other people have jobs with pensions. You actually expect ten thousand people in Canada to work for free while you go out and earn an income and pension at what ever it is you do? That's f'cked

You have nothing to do with the United Way?? Could have fool anyone with your tireless crusade for them.

They can have a pension plan if the company gives it to them. I simply refuse to donate money to fund charity workers' benefit packages. And I have never required charity people to be full time workers. Just part-time volunteers. See comment above. Look up ... way up.

Were you asleep at the wheel when it came to light that there is a tsunami's worth of victims of aids, starvation and war every few days in Africa? Do you think these charities just packed up and went home when the beaches got too crowded again? Sheesh. Wake up, man

What has that got to do with charities like World Vision and Red Cross not coming through with the help that the victims of a specific disaster in 2004 needed?? You're trying to divert and cloud the argument with a different tangent. Be layoff those cheap drugs boy.

Missed the part about impoverished nations taking some measure of responsibility for their own success ... did we?? Let a thought seep in, it might do you some good


That's a different thread but my God is that ever ignorant. Personally Africa isn't my thing. I hate Bono too. Aid gets stolen all the time, but charities are not to blame. Even so, just the tiniest smidge of common sense would tell you that taking responsibility for your own country might be slightly difficult when you've been financially crippled by lending practices, plundered and then uncompensated for resources, and lead into years of civil conflict by foreign influence. All of this is debatable, none of it is untrue and all of it only represents a fraction of the many reasons you're totally ignorant on the matter

You must have a reading comprehension problem and only clue into what you wish to. I specifically said in an earlier post that those impoverish people could help themselves along a bit further by not breeding so much. That has nothing to do with lending practices or dictatorial governments or uncompensated resources as you have gone on and on about.

Furthermore, how can cash aid be stolen anyway?? Does the charity not have control over it?? If not, they are to blame for its lose. As for commodity goods being stolen ... that too, is the responsibility of the charity to ensure that it is not. If they can't, they aren't in the position to do their job. Aid is stolen ... but it's not the charities' fault!! Cry me a river, OK!!

I'm sure those charity workers know all about your so-called insights into Third World issues ... yet as enlightened as they are, they haven't a clue on how to deal with it. And you're defending them?? Who is the ignorant one here ... really???

It also doesn't take a genius or junior Einstein to figure out that an organized charity will benefit from economies of scale and efficiencies vastly more than one off contributions. But you're more than welcome to think that all charities are all bad all the time because one CEO makes almost a million bucks. That's the basis of your argument and if that's what you're going to hang your hat on, naivete is the least of your concerns

The ecomomy of scale you're talking about in large charitable organizations helped to create numerous layers upon layers of redundant redundancies ... generating employment opportunities that all add up to healthy pay scales for the workers and their CEOs. Couple that with the fact they haven't achieved any measure of success in dealing with world issues.

Those two ideas form the basis of my argument against charities.

@CheshireCatalyst

I’m really not feeling the whole “we'll get you fired if you don’t contribute” line.
Didn't you write earlier about all the "converts" you had made with all your preaching against charities?

Yes I did write about all those "converts". But I simply made them more aware of the truth staring at them in the face. That ... no matter how much money they donate, the tide of social problems haven't abated. Adding insult to injury ... they are subsidizing the lifestyles of the workers and CEOs. If they decided not to donate ... that is because they see the logic of what I'm trying to say ... instead of acting like good little obedient servants and give away their money when told to.

I do NOT force anyone not to donate using threats of getting them fired. That unruly co-worker (singular) thought that he could get me fired over not participating without a clue as to the consequences of wrongful dismissal. I'm sure the employer would be smart enough not to fire someone without cause, but that little charity trooper couldn't see that.

I'm still working on my friend who sponsors two kids through World Vision. Although he hasn't given up sponsoring those two kids, I have managed to convince him not to give World Vision more money whenever they mail letters to him after each and every natural disaster.

The problem with sponsoring kids from Third World countries is that there seem to be a never ending supply of them. World Vision has a whole catalog of children for sponsors to choose from. Sorta like commodity kids. However, with each child sponsored, those impoverished nations are breeding more everyday. Therefore, no matter how many kids Westerners adopt, the supply will never cease.

That's the responsibility ... i.e. STOP BREEDING ...on the part of Third World natives that I tried to get across to WTF! ... but he's too simple minded to get it ... going off in another direction.

Wherever I have worked in the last 10 years there was always a good deal of pressure to donate to the United Way but there was nothing extreme

Extreme or not. Pressure to donate amounts to coercion!! Whenever that happens, I fight to the death to do exactly the opposite, no matter what anyone thinks.

Neither my co-workers nor my management would know what I had or had not given via direct deposit or cheque - it was confidential. So unless I shot my mouth off, nobody would be the wiser

I wasn't emphasizing whether they know how much you donated ... just the fact that they put on the pressure to make sure everyone does ... so everybody in the company could sit around that little feel good "campfire" called community spirit.

I've never heard of any harassment where I've worked, and I've worked in environments of over 4,000 people where every department had a goal for 100% participation. I’m not buying the claim that your co-workers have decided to bully employees into giving to a charity

You didn't read my post correctly. That was one (singular) co-worker who went to extremes ... which caused the *take no $hit from anyone (devil) part of me* to explode in anger. Other co-workers who came around to sell tickets for fundraising events just walked away when I said no. Unhappy at my response but walked away nonetheless and didn't force the issue.

I would also begin to question how much energy you might have wasted over $5, even though you’re not obligated to donate. Similarly, I’d wonder whether management or anyone else was actually willing to waste that much effort in getting that $5 out of you

It's not whether it is $5 or $500 ... it's against my principles to throw good money at social issues that seem to be unsolvable and at the same time fund the lifestyles of charitiy workers. Poverty and homelessness is increasing despite all charitable efforts. The billions sent to countries like Africa over the last 50 years haven't made much difference. There are parallels here.

The world has the wrong idea when people believe that the solution in solving social problems is to keep throwing money at it. How's do you think that's working out??

Homelessness is the result of much larger personal problems than just "affordable housing" or life throwing a curve-ball at us. When people make improper choices ... like young women having babies before they've finished school and becoming financially stable ... people experimenting with drugs thinking addictions happens to everyone else except them ... those who had misfortunes happen to them (like Earthpuppy's post of the catering person), then compound their already intense situations with alcohol and drugs. These are all examples of bad choices that contributed to homelessness.

Until society get to the root cause of social ills, we will never be able to end poverty or homelessness ... ensuring the continued survival of charities and the big CEO payouts.

Furthermore, you don't have to designate any funds to United Way - you can specify one of hundreds of specific organizations that work with United Way

If I was going to do that ... why not just donate directly to the specific charity rather than go through the United Way?? Also, is that a *for sure* the United Way doesn't get a penny if a donor doesn't designate funds to the them??

Do you have this much resistance to taking someone out for lunch on their birthday because you’re not getting your 98% return?

Do you ask the recipient of the free lunch for audited financial statements before chipping in?

If I took someone out for a birthday lunch, they would have to be ... at minimum ... an acquaintance of some sort. If the person was a stranger, why should I buy them a birthday lunch of any kind?? Workplace departments sometimes have birthday lunches or gifts for the B-person. If they were people I work closely with, then I would chip in my share. However, if they're from a different department and I know nothing about them, then I would decline contributing.

Years ago at a job ... a person in my department couldn't afford the ring for his bride in their upcoming wedding. Feeling sorry for the guy, one employee started a collection pot. I and some other people just laughed at the idea. If he couldn't afford to buy a wedding ring, chances are he wasn't in the financial position to get married anyway. So why not save himself the embarrassment and postpone the big day?? To top that off, they weren't offering a tax write-off receipt for any contributions made either. Moreover, no audit of the guy's financial statements were done prior to accepting his story that he couldn't afford the ring.

What?? We suppose to help out every hard luck case who has a sob story??

Based on your comments in the forums, I am going to suggest that the criticism you’ve received at work MIGHT be due to a lack of team spirit and general lack of participation, or perhaps you just constantly make waves

Team spirit and participation in the work environment doesn't extend to personal cash outlays. I have helped out team members many times over in their work. As long as it was job related, I will fullfill the team spirit obligation. Ask me for money .... and there's the door ... after I've rocked the boat by making waves.

If you hate “privilege,” you will never get “privilege.”

Privilege ... like respect ... is earned. As in the privilege of driving a car. If you go out and commit drunk driving, you lose that privilege to drive. A stranger asking for money hasn't earned the privilege from me. A friend in need has. Likewise, I have earned the respect from my friends for helping them out on many occassions.

Bottom line is: friend vs stranger.

Your quite right as most of the aid that goes to these 3rd world countries goes to the fat cats & the political goons that are in power

Gentleman Jim ... I put charity fatcats in the same league as those Third World country political goons. They are ALL crooks.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 92
view profile
History
Homeless asking for Money....
Posted: 11/7/2010 6:49:02 AM

Who said I meant a volunteer must work full time for the entire year?? I'm saying that if enough people like YOU gave their time (part time) ... then charities can have the efficiency of Santa's toy workshop. More elves make the work lighter.

Furthermore, who said volunteers are so unskilled that they can't manage large operating assets?? What?? You're saying that once they're put on the payroll, those skills magically appear?? Sure there are those volunteers who can be just office filing clerks, but if enough people donated their time, there would be a wide cross-section of needed skills to make the charity function without highly paid personnel.

Oh ... but it could also be that those with the "skills" of fancy PR BS won't want to give away their time for free ... right?? Ramsden-Woods can't simply volunteer part of her time and contribute her "skills" while working a REAL job the rest of the time, eh??


Skills don't magically appear, Padawan. The ceo's i ramdomly mentioned have years and years of actual experience and proven ability before they get the job. They're worth thirty times what they're paid by charities. A Santa's workshop would be utter chaos and I'll prove that in a second. Even Santa's workshop has a ceo/leader. Here's what charitynavigator syas about ceo and charities. Keep in mind charitynavigator was created by guys like you who want to keep tabs on evil charities...


We recognize that many donors will be hesitant to agree that the CEO of their favorite charity deserves a six figure salary. To the skeptics, we ask that you keep in mind that most of the charities included in this study are multi-million dollar operations. Leading one of them requires an individual that possesses both an understanding of the issues that are unique to the charity's mission as well as extensive management and fundraising expertise. Even so, charities tend to pay less than private sector firms for similar competencies. For example, the charities in our study pay a median total compensation of roughly $150,000, compared to median salaries at
S&P 500 companies of $1 million, excluding bonus packages and stock options that drive the median compensation up to $6.6 million


A bit more advice from the same web site...


You're better off supporting a charity that is fiscally efficient, accountable and transparent, achieving its programmatic goals and paying its CEO well, than a charity that has substandard fiscal health, fails to live up to its mission, but under-pays its CEO


Here's the main point you need to get that will put this whole business of your total confusion to rest. There's a list...the top twenty worst charities. This is a list of the worst, least effecient charities in the USA. Their administration costs range from 42% up to 60%. They're a joke. Here's the link...

http://www.mainstreet.com/article/moneyinvesting/news/20-worst-charities-america?page=2

Only six of the twenty listed organizations have a paid CEO listed under their management. Of these six, the Tucson Audobon Society is managed by a thirteen year orinthologist with a great passion for the "aviary of the south western United States". Hmmm. That's the best guy for the job? The Jewish medical charity was manged by a dead president for three years. Three more of the twenty worst have no managing authority at all. Eight of the twenty have volunteer management in the form of a board of directors and a president or essentially, Santa and Santa's workshop of management. And is it a coincidence that ALL of these charities suck because they lack skilled management? Not according to your favorite magazine, Forbes, in an article titled... Nonprofit CEOs Are Worth Every Dime: The public outcry about nonprofit CEO salaries is misplaced.


Keep in mind that the highest paid CEOs are overseeing complex multimillion-dollar ventures. Successful nonprofit leaders not only have a commitment to the mission of the organization, but also possess business management acumen on par with corporate executives. In order to attract the level of experience that these larger organizations need, competitive compensation packages are offered.


So we should be pretty much done with this argument unless you uhave something other than your own incorrect opinion to add. Maybe something illustrating the lack of worth of charity ceo's? One thing other than your ranting?


any profession not in the hard sciences and technologies has little value to me and is relegated to the bottom of the barrel.


That's pretty funny if not totally predictable.


"Business Person of the Year"?? Now that does make me laugh. In fact, I'm ROTFLMAO. I'll stop laughing when the person is awarded something more prestigious. Oh ... I don't know ... the Nobel Prize in a revered field of scientific achievement, maybe??


She's also one of Canada's top 100 most influential people. But seriously, a Nobel Prize in Science would be your criteria for achievement and value? Would you like to go through some of the skull duggery recent Nobel laureates have achieved?


You have nothing to do with the United Way?? Could have fool anyone with your tireless crusade for them.


It's actually just a tireless crusade against stupidity. The only charity I've ever given to is the Humane Society and they don't even ask for donations. I'm on auto debit with them. I'll assume any cause against mis information.


I specifically said in an earlier post that those impoverish people could help themselves along a bit further by not breeding so much. That has nothing to do with lending practices or dictatorial governments or uncompensated resources as you have gone on and on about.


And I specifically said helping people to not breed so much is exactly what the United Way in Africa does!!! And to suggest that all the problems involved with African nations including lending, wars, starvation and depleating resources doesn't directly lead to over population is totally mind numbing. You're just not right here.


Furthermore, how can cash aid be stolen anyway?? Does the charity not have control over it?? If not, they are to blame for its lose. As for commodity goods being stolen ... that too, is the responsibility of the charity to ensure that it is not. If they can't, they aren't in the position to do their job. Aid is stolen ... but it's not the charities' fault!! Cry me a river, OK!!


But somehow you and your mighty volunteer possy could distribute this aid better? Seems unlikely.


The ecomomy of scale you're talking about in large charitable organizations helped to create numerous layers upon layers of redundant redundancies ... generating employment opportunities that all add up to healthy pay scales for the workers and their CEOs.


Healthy pay scales? You're now just making stuff up. You're lieing. Charity pay scales are more than 30 times less on average compared to "healthy"pay scales of similar jobs. Read again...


the charities in our study pay a median total compensation of roughly $150,000, compared to median salaries at S&P 500 companies of $1 million, excluding bonus packages and stock options that drive the median compensation up to $6.6 million


This is too funny. You actually wrote this....


But I simply made them more aware of the truth staring at them in the face. That ... no matter how much money they donate, the tide of social problems haven't abated.


And just a few lines later you wrote....


The problem with sponsoring kids from Third World countries is that there seem to be a never ending supply of them. World Vision has a whole catalog of children for sponsors to choose from


Do you think you just answered your own question?


That's the responsibility ... i.e. STOP BREEDING ...on the part of Third World natives that I tried to get across to WTF! ... but he's too simple minded to get it ... going off in another direction.


Answer this question honestly....How are you and some of your part time friend volunteer going to stop over population in Africa? Are you going to rent a plane a drop condoms on people? No. Too expensive. Economy of scale again. How about you work closely with one of the many many many charities that focus specifically on your main issue like World Population Awareness. They have a four star rating and are very effective creating at educational programs in Africa. They're actually doing what you want. You're just standing there yelling at Africa to STOP BREEDING. And I'm simple minded?

Padawan, you're one of a typical breed. Wyclef Jean starts a charity for Haiti with millions....millions of his own dollars, throws a benefit concert and uses 100k to pay expenses for the concert while dumping millions of profit into direct aid, then puts on a haz mat suite and drags bodies to the morgue in Port au Prince after the earthquake and people say he's a scum bag for spending 100k of donated money on expenses. You like millions of haters worldwide, have totally missed the point.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 95
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Posted: 11/7/2010 5:34:24 PM
Sweet La Senza...Excellent french. The person to whom you refer to has obviously never been in a church, or actually worked amongst the most "charitible" among religious or secular organizations. Sad to see such hatred toward folks who were raised to find cause and fulfillment working in and manifesting the teachings of compassion as some sort of cynical bad thing. Yeah..eventually some get paid for those years of efforts, but most of the social and environmental activists I have known threw away vast amounts of personal time and wealth before they actually got a decent paying job doing what they wanted to do all along.

I kinda feel bad for those who thrive on cynicism and judgement of all beings, but at the same time kinda wonder how it's going to work out in those smug worlds over the long haul.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 99
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Posted: 11/8/2010 6:52:32 AM

We should be writing post in here not books.When you have to keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling to get past some of these books people write its annoying


So the content of the post doesn't matter just as long as you don't get tired not reading it? Minus the ten seconds it took to read this and a further ten seconds of thought, does that make any sense to you? I dream of a day when each and every post will be judged by the content of its character and not the amount of time it takes to scroll through and NOT READ it!

I couldn't agree with Sweetnessinflorida more. That's exactly the experience, word for word, we have in the city I live in.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 104
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Posted: 11/8/2010 2:23:00 PM
I agree with Cheshirecatalyst...I appreciate what Sweet le Senza does in walking the talk for the "least" among us.

I rescued a hitchhiking, gay, transvestite, Vietnam vet, parapalegic in a wheel chair from a truck stop in north Georgia a few decades ago. I found out that my mate was far less tolerant than I had assumed her to be. She demanded I take "it" back to the truckstop, which I refused to do for fear of his/her life. It was one of those beginning of the end moments in a relationship. Good Catholic woman otherwise.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 106
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Posted: 11/8/2010 4:18:28 PM
The topic interest me but writing overly and unnecessarily long post that border on being a book does not mean that you win in the post wars


But you have no idea what the long posts are about because you didn't read them so you can't have an opinion on them. How can you say if it's necessary or not?


If you believe in giving money to homeless people then do so and say why.If you do not then do not and leave your opinion as to why


So you've made up rules that only positive opinons may state reasons why? You're quite the little dictator. I'd suggest that both sides of the vote should be able to say why. And it's the why that makes threads interesting and posts long. It wouldn't be any fun to just create giant lists of postings that say "yes I do" or "no I don't". That would be a "pole" which is against the rules anyway.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 108
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Posted: 11/8/2010 4:53:13 PM

It's called staying on topic.The title of this thread is homeless asking for money not charities asking for money.


They're very similar in scope and actually, charity donation did make up a part of the original post. Here. Read the OP....


There a plenty of charities around that will help those who are actually in this position.


Seems like fair game to me.


I never said only say yes or no.Talk about not reading someones post yet you complain about me not reading yours.You even quoted what I wrote yet you didn't read it.


Oh I read what you wrote but you kind of mangled it....


If you do not then do not and leave your opinion as to why


I see now. I was awash in "do nots". Sorry.

And I never try to change people's opinions, just the facts they base their opinions on. Some people are just wrong and they eventually get it. They still have their opinions, but maybe they won't go around telling people that charities should be entirely managed by Santa Clause and a few volunteer elves.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 110
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Posted: 11/8/2010 5:52:49 PM

I rescued a hitchhiking, gay, transvestite, Vietnam vet, parapalegic in a wheel chair from a truck stop in north Georgia a few decades ago. I found out that my mate was far less tolerant than I had assumed her to be. She demanded I take "it" back to the truckstop, which I refused to do for fear of his/her life. It was one of those beginning of the end moments in a relationship. Good Catholic woman otherwise.

Do you mean you brought him to your home? I would kinda have to side with your ex here.Bringing strangers into your home is really a bad idea.If you had given him money taken him to a shelter or paid for a room somewhere for him for awhile then that would be good but you don't bring strangers home to live with your family.That's just dangerous.


The guy was facing a potential death sentence for being what he was in Redneckistan during that era. His legs were missing above the knees. He was a fellow veteran. He was harmless. I was well armed, but have also always had a good sense of character and empathy. There was NO danger involved, merely her sense of disgust that guided the conversation in the yard that night. There was no readily available option at that time of night other than to remove a fellow veteran from harms' way. I have done it several times since with zero regrets or "dangerous" moments. Yes, there is always some potential for scammers and things that can go wrong. Most people use that fear to never help anyone.

I prefer to live in a world where my fellow beings will step up to the plate for me and mine when circumstances call for it. That NYC video recently of people walking past a dying man, a hero of 9/11, without any semblence of humanity is not the kind of world I wish to live in or contribute to. I feel sad for the cold folks here. But, would probably stop to help nonetheless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/hugo-alfredo-tale-yax-doz_n_550854.html
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 115
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Posted: 11/10/2010 8:37:39 AM
About two years ago I would see 4 or 5 regular panhandlers at the street entrance of Walmart. If I had money I would contribute to their cause. If I stopped to get gasoline at a convenience store during the evening I would often see those same individuals buying cigarettes, drinks, etc. The clerk of the convenience store and I had a conversation after they had left the store. I found out that the panhandlers lived in an old dilapidated hotel down the street. Between the 4 or 5 of them they were making enough money to stay in the hotel and perhaps afford cigarettes, drinks, and a little food. They were sharing a room to afford these things. I believe that our city put a stop to their panhandling at Walmart. I don't know if they got arrested but it very well could have been that they did. Their crime asking for money around a business. I think they were veteran's. I'm not sure what their story was although I see the bigger crime being that the city ran them off.

That old hotel isn't cheap. They make a killing charging outrageous amounts of money for poor working folks to live there week to week. The cost of housing is just too much for many people.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 118
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Posted: 11/10/2010 8:49:59 PM

How? By getting a job? You're kidding me!
3) Having a criminal record prevents the individual from being self-reliant! Legally anyways!
So self reliance and homelessness while obeying the law at the same time is a joke!


That ain't even half true. There is job training with actual experience provided while in prison as well as continued training after release. There are 53 Corrections Canada community employment centers around the country that match released inmates with thousands of jobs every year. What is true is that not every job is available to people with records. What is also true is that starting over with a low paying job is difficult, distastefull and not as easy as other illegal options. Consider this, 28000 people applied for pardons in 2009. I doubt they're all unemployed.


4) How many homeless people have bank accounts? To have a bank account you need an address in which you reside yes?


No. You don't need an address to open a bank account. You need ID (Scotia Bank says you don't but I don't believe them). But why would not having a bank account prevent you from being self reliant? There are lots of ways to cash pay checks, lots of all inclusive rental units and pay as you go options for just about everything else you may need.


1) Many homeless people suffer from addiction and or mental illness.


True, but giving money to an addict is the cruelest thing you could do to that person and especially cruel to their families. It makes people less self reliant. It actually makes self reliance an impossibility.

Mental illness...now there's a problem that isn't just another excuse.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 119
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Posted: 11/10/2010 11:30:08 PM
I don't mind giving a dollar to a pandhandler, but inviting to my house that is very stup!d. There are lots of homeless people here in NV because of gambling addiction.
The homeless here are well feed and they have a health center,there are lots of organization that feed them ,we have like a dormitory place that they can temporary stay at night, there is also a place where all the homeless stays with tents.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 122
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Posted: 11/11/2010 7:14:36 AM

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard in my entire life! An addict is going to get money! Period! Many women get their money via prostitution. Getting a bad john isn't pretty! I've seen the after math so please don't hand me that nonsense!


Oh, so you're talking about only women? Men don't count? Either way, what you're really saying is addicts will get money somehow, prostitution, stealing, b and e's or whatever so we should just give it to them so they can further their habits and continue the deterioration of their lives. That is so stupid. One hundred percent of the money you give an addict goes to drugs or alcohol. You're actually helping them kill themselves. If I had a loved one who was an addict I'd be furious with people for giving him/her money. What do addicts do when they run out of options and have no money? They get help. You should actually be ashamed for giving addicts money. If you actually had a loved one begging for drug money you'd lose your mind at people giving it to them. You'd want to shove every last nickel straight up their noses.


Link please! I would love to follow up on the kinds of jobs and the success rate and the % of those who benefit from this.


Sure. Here's the info link...

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/prgrm/corcan/home-eng.shtml

Follow up statistical info at...

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/prgrm/corcan/cec-eng.shtml

Both links have results posted up to 2008-2009. They have specific numbers for ever region of Canada. All you questions will be answered if you have a look. You can't possibly say it's impossible for convicts to get jobs. Not true.


Ya. At one of those Money Mart places that take , oh what's the % these days? 20% something? That's a great way to get ahead!


No again. Those are pay day loan rates and they're more like 400% when annualized. So it's actually not considered an interest rate but rather a fee for services since the max allowable rate is 60%. The fee to simply cash a check is about 2.99% of the value of the check. Three bucks per hundred. But why even bother with that. Just bring your id to the branch that issued the check and cash away for free. Of course that may require a bus trip, or may be impossible if the employer is not local. But again, we're just talking about excuses. Get some id, get a bank account. Problem solved. Not that hard.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 123
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Posted: 11/11/2010 1:48:35 PM
^^^^
Well noted justbunky.

On a dating site where people meet strangers all the time, there is a double standard it seems if those strangers are down on their luck. I still see the language of distancing the homeless among us as some other species almost, some underclass, unworthy, the majority painted with the same broad brush strokes because of the sins of the minority.

The more fortunate among us too often view the cascading events of a divorce, disease, accident, natural disasters, a home fire, pink slip, untreated PTSD flareups, mental health changes, and other factors as some sort of moral failure or something anyone can control. There is definately a lack of humility that taints this discussion as well as an empathy gap that guides some folks. There are over 100,000 Veterans homeless tonight, half of them served in Vietnam. Up to a quarter million are homeless at some point in this year. I salute all who served, their supportive family and friends, and hope that we can staunch the increasing numbers of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans who are increasingly among the homeless.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 124
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Posted: 11/11/2010 5:00:58 PM

Often, the simplest tasks become complicated when one is homeless, for a variety of reasons. It could have to do with addresses, identification, payment options, transporation, or a hundred other things - things that wouldn't really ever occur to the majority of the population.

Sometimes ya gotta know what you don't know.


Often? How about always. But what you're really saying is that it's just easier to be homeless. And I agree completely. Bussing it to work is hard. Catching a shower at the drop in center sucks. The towels are small, other guys are peeing on you. Not fun. Getting ID also requires more bus work and some walking.

What's even harder is feeling like a total loser and having to go out in public like that and having to work at some crappy job teenagers are doing better than you and who are just doing it to earn beer money before going to college. That's the real hard part. Everyday you're reminded in many different ways that you lost and it's going to be a million miles and several lifetimes before you can feel like you've made it again.

So you're totally right, Sahara. It's much easier to be homeless. You really don't even need all the excuses you've mentioned.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 126
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Posted: 11/11/2010 7:53:12 PM

You are completely lost in the "trees." Utterly and totally. Perfect example of not realizing what it is that you don't understand.


Well explain it then. Quit being so cryptic all the time. It sounds like you were suggesting people are homeless because it's too difficult to cash pay checks. What is it exactly you were trying to say? What don't I understand?
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 129
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Posted: 11/12/2010 7:56:47 AM
Ten Reasons the Homeless have a Hard Time finding a Job
It's not as easy as "just get a job."
A lot of people wonder why the homeless don't just get a job. There are a lot of reasons it is difficult - not impossible - but very difficult. This list doesn't even include things like addictions, extremely low confidence and self esteem.

1. No permanent mailing address
2. No phone for contacting
3. No appropriate clothing
4. No clean clothing
5. No way to shower, shave, and clean up
6. No Identification, drivers license or social security card
7. Just out of prison
8. Mentally ill and should be receiving help
9. No transporation
10. No money for bus fair
http://www.squidoo.com/lovethehomeless#module28531932

It seems so simple to those of us who have a home and jobs to think that they just aren't trying to be productive citizens. I worked in Human Resources. I can assure you that I looked for all these things when I was reviewing application. Appearance was a big deal from the very start, walking through that door to apply for the position. If the applicants first impression was dirty and unkempt the receptionist would inform us of that and the applicant would be at the bottom of the pile from the very start. If they had no way of contacting them (no address, no phone number to call) how was I suppose to contact them? Applicants that cannot be located get placed at the bottom of the pile. HR looks at your record, your job experience, your education, and how well you complete the application. They look to see how you are going to get to and from their job (in other words....what type of transportation do you have?). If a homeless person actually did make it to the interview process and was offered a job they would have to supply the necessary credentials such as their driver's license and social security card and they would have to make it to the interviews. Most homeless would not have met the criteria that I was told to look for when reviewing applications.
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